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So what would you all think about John Fox as HC?

Mike in Prescott : 11/13/2019 9:05 pm
As of last January he stated he wanted back in the game. He checks the boxes for defensive mind, run oriented teams, "family" connection that Mara seems to favor. I think he would be head and shoulders above Shurmer, for sure. I'm not personally in favor of it, but I have to admit the nostalgia factor is high on this one.
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A retread  
huygens20 : 11/13/2019 11:20 pm : link
That picked Mitch trubisky


Seriously, we need to get rid of all the boomers.
Boomer this  
gtt350 : 11/13/2019 11:56 pm : link
.
Just what this  
MtDizzle : 11/14/2019 12:01 am : link
Franchise needs. Another retread.
Good god  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 11/14/2019 12:08 am : link
NOOO
RE: No.  
mrvax : 11/14/2019 12:10 am : link
In comment 14679458 Sean said:
Quote:
He’s had a nice HC career & not many people have coached 3 different teams, so he deserves credit.

The 2 names that feel very “safe” and could slide in and work with Gettleman:

-Mike McCarthy
-Jason Garrett


I don't remember the details but I've heard several lousy reports about McCarthy, all saying he was a lazy SOB. But he does have a good record and he's not really old.
NONONONONONONONO  
Metnut : 11/14/2019 12:14 am : link
No
RE: A retread  
jcn56 : 11/14/2019 12:23 am : link
In comment 14679517 huygens20 said:
Quote:
That picked Mitch trubisky


Seriously, we need to get rid of all the boomers.


Might want to have a look at this...
https://sports.yahoo.com/ex-bears-coach-john-fox-wanted-different-qb-in-draft-over-mitch-trubisky-210559099.html - ( New Window )
.  
Stan in LA : 11/14/2019 7:26 pm : link
RE: A retread  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/14/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14679517 huygens20 said:
Quote:
That picked Mitch trubisky


Seriously, we need to get rid of all the boomers.


Boomers? Really? Do you have a mind of your own or do you just follow the tide?
Fox wouldn't be my first choice  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/14/2019 7:48 pm : link
but he is far better than what we have now.
I think I'd rather go in a different direction  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2019 7:48 pm : link
Fox is ok, and certainly much better than Shurmur, but yet another legacy hire is the last thing they should be doing.
He would be a very underwhelming hire  
Jay on the Island : 11/14/2019 7:52 pm : link
He's better than Shurmur but the game has passed him by IMO.
RE: Just what this  
djm : 11/14/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14679527 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
Franchise needs. Another retread.


Mcadoo wasn’t a retreat. I don’t even consider shurmur a retread because he wasn’t hired on the back of his HC resume. Coughlin was a retread.

But no thanks to Fox. He’s better than the last 2 crowns, but meh...
RE: Fox wouldn't be my first choice  
Jay on the Island : 11/14/2019 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14679562 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
but he is far better than what we have now.

That's not setting the bar very high.
Fox  
Montana_Giant : 11/14/2019 8:04 pm : link
has brought 2 teams to the super bowl and has been to the playoffs 7 times. Was our DC for a superbowl. He's got a resume.
RE: DC  
Milton : 11/14/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14679472 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Yes. HC no.
+1
He would be an excellent choice for defensive coordinator.
What everyone’s thought on  
NikkiMac : 11/14/2019 8:22 pm : link
Urban Meyer for HC ?
133 123 0 .520 winning percentage  
malslayer : 11/14/2019 8:24 pm : link
Sign me up
Shurmur isn't the problem  
Milton : 11/14/2019 8:37 pm : link
But maybe Bettcher is. The offense has shown flashes of life, but the defense has been nothing but disappointment.

Coughlin repeatedly fired (or had to fire) his coordinators every time the team stunk. It allowed him to save his own neck and stick around long enough to win a couple Super Bowls.

I'm not surprised to see those who opposed the hire in the first place doing victory laps and calling for his head, but If you believed in Shurmur to begin with (as Mara did, as Gettleman did, as I did) then he deserves patience.
RE: Shurmur isn't the problem  
jcn56 : 11/14/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14679602 Milton said:
Quote:
But maybe Bettcher is. The offense has shown flashes of life, but the defense has been nothing but disappointment.

Coughlin repeatedly fired (or had to fire) his coordinators every time the team stunk. It allowed him to save his own neck and stick around long enough to win a couple Super Bowls.

I'm not surprised to see those who opposed the hire in the first place doing victory laps and calling for his head, but If you believed in Shurmur to begin with (as Mara did, as Gettleman did, as I did) then he deserves patience.


Bettcher has a lot less to work with - Shurmur doesn't have anywhere near the same excuse.

If you feel he deserves patience, can I ask - why? Believing in him on day 1 shouldn't be an answer - you'd have to see something in him to date that makes you feel he's the answer going forward.
RE: RE: Shurmur isn't the problem  
Milton : 11/14/2019 9:38 pm : link
In comment 14679616 jcn56 said:
Quote:

If you feel he deserves patience, can I ask - why? Believing in him on day 1 shouldn't be an answer - you'd have to see something in him to date that makes you feel he's the answer going forward.
I don't see anything that makes me feel differently than I did before. I thought he did an excellent job last year keeping the team competitive against some tough defenses despite the horrendous start. The road game vs the playoff bound Colts was a prime example. They lost the game, but playing without OBJ against the Colts all-star defense, with JJ Watt facing Chad Wheeler all day, it was a game that shouldn't've been close. The offense performed at a level such that the whole was much greater than the sum of the parts and that's a sign of good coaching.

This year the issues and results has been different, with a rookie QB, an OL that still isn't right, zero speed at the WR position, and the loss of Barkley. If there's a coaching problem on the offensive side of the ball, it's Hal Hunter, not Shurmur.

So as someone who believed in Shurmur when he was first hired, I say don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Changes are needed not just at the player level, but at the coaching level. Maybe it's the position coaches that are the problem, not the coordinators. Impossible to tell from my couch.



Bud Grant is still alive and was a much better HC.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/15/2019 12:03 am : link
Make it happen, Mara!
Stop  
OLineWinsRings : 11/15/2019 12:53 am : link
No more North Carolina anything
I wouldnt mind bringing him in  
Glover : 11/15/2019 6:51 am : link
this week so he could be the interim coach for the rest of the season.
I’ll say this about Milton..  
Sean : 11/15/2019 7:06 am : link
He is very fair to all the NYG HC’s. Felt Fassel got a raw deal & is patient with Shurmur.
RE: RE: RE: Shurmur isn't the problem  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 8:19 am : link
In comment 14679656 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14679616 jcn56 said:


Quote:



If you feel he deserves patience, can I ask - why? Believing in him on day 1 shouldn't be an answer - you'd have to see something in him to date that makes you feel he's the answer going forward.

I don't see anything that makes me feel differently than I did before. I thought he did an excellent job last year keeping the team competitive against some tough defenses despite the horrendous start. The road game vs the playoff bound Colts was a prime example. They lost the game, but playing without OBJ against the Colts all-star defense, with JJ Watt facing Chad Wheeler all day, it was a game that shouldn't've been close. The offense performed at a level such that the whole was much greater than the sum of the parts and that's a sign of good coaching.

This year the issues and results has been different, with a rookie QB, an OL that still isn't right, zero speed at the WR position, and the loss of Barkley. If there's a coaching problem on the offensive side of the ball, it's Hal Hunter, not Shurmur.

So as someone who believed in Shurmur when he was first hired, I say don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Changes are needed not just at the player level, but at the coaching level. Maybe it's the position coaches that are the problem, not the coordinators. Impossible to tell from my couch.




I can respect that Milton, while still seeing it very differently from you. I see a lot of problems that are just scheme and strategy - bad time management, questionable playcalls, the team looking unprepared (especially at the start of games).

Where we really diverge is the position coach/coordinator vs. talent angle - what you think might just be Hal Hunter or Bettcher not getting the job done, I think is more a function of talent. I also think that it seems at times Shurmur can't be Shurmur because what he has on the field simply can't execute what he wants them to do.

There's just no other good explanation why he makes some eyebrow raising decisions, like eliminating rollout calls that he made with a far less mobile Eli when he switched over to Jones. If anything, you'd think the frequency of those calls would have gone up, not down.

I also think we've seen the best of Shurmur - both the effort level and the results are trending downward. I'm not a fan of the 'they fight hard for him' metric, because these guys are professionals and they're all fighting for their jobs. Hell, Miami is making a concerted effort to lose and it seems their roster refuses to play along. The Giants just keep getting worse, even as the level of opponent has declined.

The roster has certainly done him no favors, though - which is why if they were to jettison Shurmur I'd send Gettleman packing right next to him.
Make no mistake about it, Shurmur is part of the problem  
JonC : 11/15/2019 9:32 am : link
He's a fundamentally poor head coach, is constantly out-schemed, and his in game management is poor. On top of those, he's thin-skinned and makes emotional decisions that are clouded and obvious. And, I'm being kind with adjectives.
Fox made a very good defense with  
HoustonGiant : 11/15/2019 9:36 am : link
very little talent...
I'd take a guy off the street  
GiantFanInTX : 11/15/2019 9:47 am : link
over Shurmur right now...
Fox was just alright as a head coach  
JonC : 11/15/2019 9:52 am : link
and he's pushing 70. NYG has got to think outside their little comfort box ...
Can't we do better?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/15/2019 10:02 am : link
133-123 as head coach with the benefit of having Peyton Manning in his prime for back to back to back 12 win seasons.

In his last stop he was a hearty 14-34 in Chicago.
RE: RE: No.  
Section331 : 11/15/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14679529 mrvax said:
Quote:


I don't remember the details but I've heard several lousy reports about McCarthy, all saying he was a lazy SOB. But he does have a good record and he's not really old.


He also had the benefit of 2 first ballot HOF QB's. His offensive schemes were too simplistic, and her benefited from the brilliance of Favre and Rodgers to bail him out. He is a rich man's Ben McAdoo.
RE: I don’t want a run oriented team with Jones  
Touchdown maker : 11/15/2019 11:10 am : link
In comment 14679486 Justlurking said:
Quote:
He’s a fucking gunslinger. I want him to have a coach that lets him win games and carry the team.

Fine with paying fox a bunch to be DC though.


Good idea...let’s put the game on the shoulders of a young Qb who fumbles when a fan in the upper deck farts.
RE: Can't we do better?  
ron mexico : 11/15/2019 11:17 am : link
In comment 14680083 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
133-123 as head coach with the benefit of having Peyton Manning in his prime for back to back to back 12 win seasons.

In his last stop he was a hearty 14-34 in Chicago.


you are not going to find a coach with a 600 winning percentage who is looking for a job
RE: Fox was just alright as a head coach  
Milton : 11/15/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14680067 JonC said:
Quote:
and he's pushing 70.
64 is not pushing 70.

You know who's pushing 70? Bill Belichick.
RE: Can't we do better?  
Anakim : 11/15/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14680083 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
133-123 as head coach with the benefit of having Peyton Manning in his prime for back to back to back 12 win seasons.

In his last stop he was a hearty 14-34 in Chicago.


LOL. I'm no Fox fan, but Peyton Manning was FAR from his prime during his time with the Broncos.
Close enough for me  
JonC : 11/15/2019 3:01 pm : link
we're trying to build a winner, he'll be that much closer to 70 by the time the team peaks. Old dudes need not take offense.
RE: Close enough for me  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14680429 JonC said:
Quote:
we're trying to build a winner, he'll be that much closer to 70 by the time the team peaks. Old dudes need not take offense.


He's not exactly a spry 64, he's had a number of health issues, cardiac ones to boot.
Pete Carroll is 68 (same as Belichick)  
Milton : 11/15/2019 3:26 pm : link
Andy Reid is 61 and I'm thinking no healthier than John Fox.

I don't get to interview these guys or see them interacting with players on the practice field or in the locker room, but that's what it would take for me to determine whether age has become an issue for them. Depending on health and activity, age is mostly a state of mind (at least until 80 or so). Even on the physical side we see QBs like Brady and Brees playing at a high level into their 40's and non-QBs like Strahan, London Fletcher, Larry Fitzgerald, and Frank Gore playing well into their 30's.

30 and 40 ain't what it used to be when it comes to strength, speed, and quickness. And 60 and 70 ain't what it used to be when it comes to mental acuity.
Those coaches are top notch  
JonC : 11/15/2019 3:30 pm : link
I'd be willing to interview them and judge from there, but Fox isn't in that class. If we're looking at lower tiers, I want youth, energy, and new ideas in the room, imo. Most NFL coaches do have a shelf life, I think Fox has reached his as head coach.
RE: RE: Can't we do better?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/15/2019 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14680428 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14680083 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


133-123 as head coach with the benefit of having Peyton Manning in his prime for back to back to back 12 win seasons.

In his last stop he was a hearty 14-34 in Chicago.



LOL. I'm no Fox fan, but Peyton Manning was FAR from his prime during his time with the Broncos.


Peyton Manning wasn't a corpse until 2014.

He threw for 55 touchdowns and 10 INTS in 2013.
I think there's a good argument for Greg Roman  
Go Terps : 11/15/2019 3:36 pm : link
If we fully commit to his offense across the organization it will open up a lot of opportunities for asset acquisition. But we have to commit across the organization. That's going to require a lot of change from ownership.
RE: Pete Carroll is 68 (same as Belichick)  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14680450 Milton said:
Quote:
Andy Reid is 61 and I'm thinking no healthier than John Fox.

I don't get to interview these guys or see them interacting with players on the practice field or in the locker room, but that's what it would take for me to determine whether age has become an issue for them. Depending on health and activity, age is mostly a state of mind (at least until 80 or so). Even on the physical side we see QBs like Brady and Brees playing at a high level into their 40's and non-QBs like Strahan, London Fletcher, Larry Fitzgerald, and Frank Gore playing well into their 30's.

30 and 40 ain't what it used to be when it comes to strength, speed, and quickness. And 60 and 70 ain't what it used to be when it comes to mental acuity.


It's not his mental acuity, it's his overall physical health. He's had some serious heart issues and he's at an age where a job with the physical demands of the NFL could take a serious toll.

Combine that with his record at his last stop, and does he really warrant the risk?
RE: RE: Pete Carroll is 68 (same as Belichick)  
Milton : 11/15/2019 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14680461 jcn56 said:
Quote:
It's not his mental acuity, it's his overall physical health. He's had some serious heart issues and he's at an age where a job with the physical demands of the NFL could take a serious toll.

Combine that with his record at his last stop, and does he really warrant the risk?
As a replacement for Bettcher, yes. As a replacement for Shurmur, no.
RE: I think there's a good argument for Greg Roman  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14680459 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If we fully commit to his offense across the organization it will open up a lot of opportunities for asset acquisition. But we have to commit across the organization. That's going to require a lot of change from ownership.


I would be all for a Saleh, a Richard or a Roman - but my concern is that these guys end up similar to Shurmur - good at X's/O's, not good at running an organization.
RE: RE: RE: Pete Carroll is 68 (same as Belichick)  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14680464 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14680461 jcn56 said:


Quote:


It's not his mental acuity, it's his overall physical health. He's had some serious heart issues and he's at an age where a job with the physical demands of the NFL could take a serious toll.

Combine that with his record at his last stop, and does he really warrant the risk?

As a replacement for Bettcher, yes. As a replacement for Shurmur, no.


As DC? No argument here - the only question is whether he'd take the job.
RE: RE: I think there's a good argument for Greg Roman  
bw in dc : 11/15/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14680470 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14680459 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If we fully commit to his offense across the organization it will open up a lot of opportunities for asset acquisition. But we have to commit across the organization. That's going to require a lot of change from ownership.



I would be all for a Saleh, a Richard or a Roman - but my concern is that these guys end up similar to Shurmur - good at X's/O's, not good at running an organization.


Saleh is buyer beware. A big rah-rah guy with a style more suited for college. There is a load of talent on the 9ers D, and they are deep.

A lot of NFL DCs could look good directing that team. Bettcher included.

Roman is THE most interesting prospect. Of course, maybe he just does his best work with the Harbaughs - Jim in San Fran with Kaep and John in Bmore with LJax... ;)
Reid and Belichick are constantly evolving  
AcesUp : 11/15/2019 4:36 pm : link
They're more forward thinking than most coaches in the league half their age. Theres nothing wrong with an older coach if he's constantly challenging himself to learn and adapt - hell, that's the ideal best of both worlds candidate. They're few and far betweeen though. I definitely don't see Fox in that mold, quite the opposite if you listen to Bears fans.
the John Fox ship has sailed  
Jersey55 : 11/15/2019 4:53 pm : link
and the pier has collapsed
RE: the John Fox ship has sailed  
Milton : 11/15/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14680505 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
and the pier has collapsed
The ship sailed but Fox wasn't on it (he was late returning from golf because a foursome of millennials ahead of him took their sweet time going from hole to hole). And it was just one of the four piers in Chelsea that collapsed, so no biggie. The other three are rock solid, like a John Fox defense!
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