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NFT: Tampa Bay/Rangers

Percy : 11/14/2019 7:44 pm
Disastrous start. Kakko not playing. Georgiev gives up four early in the first, largely at a two-man disadvantage due to Ranger penalties. Chased he's replaced by Lundqvist. Big margin of Lightening shots over Rangers, 13-2. Rangers finally get one in to cut it to 4-1.
That second penalty, the one on TDA, was complete bullshit  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2019 7:46 pm : link
Feel bad for Georgiev, he had no chance on the first three.
RE: That second penalty, the one on TDA, was complete bullshit  
Percy : 11/14/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14679561 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Feel bad for Georgiev, he had no chance on the first three.

No, he didn't. And yes it was a BS penalty. Energy level has about equalized now, and they start the second with a man advantage for a few seconds. It's not over.
Tampa is just toying with them  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2019 8:25 pm : link
I don't think the Rangers have controlled the puck for mrr than 15 seconds at a time yet in this game.
Second Period  
Percy : 11/14/2019 8:28 pm : link
Stupid penalty (too many men) and another goal allowed. This may not be salvageable.
Another for Tampa Bay  
Percy : 11/14/2019 8:36 pm : link
And yes Tampa Bay is all over the Ranger players. They can't get their act together tonight. Look uncoordinated and late.
And Another  
Percy : 11/14/2019 8:43 pm : link
I'm out.
Oof....8-1  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2019 8:57 pm : link
I stopped watching after 6.

Guess the Lightning were pissed about the loss in MSG. They sure looked like a team on a mission in this one.
Yeah.....yeah...  
Anakim : 11/14/2019 8:59 pm : link
I think I'm gonna watch the Knicks and TNF tonight....
Lightning are lucky KK was sick  
Anakim : 11/14/2019 9:01 pm : link
If he was playing, it would've been 8-1 New York!
Shatty nets his 5th with 10 assists  
MetsAreBack : 11/14/2019 9:06 pm : link
Trouba has a goal and 6 assists for an extra 5 mil a year next year though (taking into account the buyout ramifications). Terrific resource allocation per usual when it comes to Defense.

Who will we cut next year that Tampa will sign in less than a day using our cap to pay for it?
I worked late last night and recorded the game  
ShockNRoll : 11/15/2019 8:41 am : link
and I'm thrilled that my brother spoiled the score for me. Hopefully Kakko is ready to play tomorrow. Even though they were meaningless goals, it's still nice to see Chytil continuing to score. 6 goals in 8 games is impressive, and while I don't expect him to score 40 this year, it would really be encouraging to see him put up 20-25. Did I see it right that Georgiev started, Henrik came in, and Georgiev went back in?
Suspicion  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 9:09 am : link
around the league is Lias is being shopped and the Rangers would throw in a bloated D contract for someone to take him.

Maybe he doesn't mesh with Quinn or maybe there is something beyond skills that we as fans are not privy to.

But, I've been wrong about players before I'll be wrong again, but Lias Andersson is a player I'd take on my team all day based on my observations of his juniors/sweden career.

I still see him in the Marchand/Gallagher mode - even if more toward Gallagher so what that's all-star level and Andersson has all the physical tools to be that. Does he have the make up to be it? Don't know, I thought so.
RE: Suspicion  
Anakim : 11/15/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14679988 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
around the league is Lias is being shopped and the Rangers would throw in a bloated D contract for someone to take him.

Maybe he doesn't mesh with Quinn or maybe there is something beyond skills that we as fans are not privy to.

But, I've been wrong about players before I'll be wrong again, but Lias Andersson is a player I'd take on my team all day based on my observations of his juniors/sweden career.

I still see him in the Marchand/Gallagher mode - even if more toward Gallagher so what that's all-star level and Andersson has all the physical tools to be that. Does he have the make up to be it? Don't know, I thought so.


Link?
What pisses me off is that Quinn has his golden boys just like AV did  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 9:19 am : link
Brett Howden has been outright terrible going back to last season. He never sits, never gets dropped to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Kakko has a great game and then gets sent to the press box. Chytil was forced to start the year in Hartford. Andersson can barely even get on the ice. It's bullshit.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 9:26 am : link
Quote:
while I don't expect him to score 40 this year


Agreed, much too low.
RE: RE: Suspicion  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 9:26 am : link
In comment 14680002 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14679988 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


around the league is Lias is being shopped and the Rangers would throw in a bloated D contract for someone to take him.

Maybe he doesn't mesh with Quinn or maybe there is something beyond skills that we as fans are not privy to.

But, I've been wrong about players before I'll be wrong again, but Lias Andersson is a player I'd take on my team all day based on my observations of his juniors/sweden career.

I still see him in the Marchand/Gallagher mode - even if more toward Gallagher so what that's all-star level and Andersson has all the physical tools to be that. Does he have the make up to be it? Don't know, I thought so.



Link?


It's all over twitter even Brooks had an article about it a few days ago.

I see it mostly from habs and national guys. see if you can't find the twitter links. I'll share the next one(s).
they stick him on a line with Michael fucking Haley  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 9:28 am : link
and they wonder why his stats aren't great. Gee, that's a regular Columbo level mystery.
I haven't seen  
Gman11 : 11/15/2019 9:29 am : link
anything from Andersson to lead me to believe he's anything more than a fourth liner.
RE: What pisses me off is that Quinn has his golden boys just like AV did  
jv : 11/15/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14680008 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Brett Howden has been outright terrible going back to last season. He never sits, never gets dropped to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Kakko has a great game and then gets sent to the press box. Chytil was forced to start the year in Hartford. Andersson can barely even get on the ice. It's bullshit.

Every coach has favorites.

Kakko had the flu. If he's healthy he's playing. Chytil had a shitty preseason, went to the AHL, and came back a better player. He needed to find his game.

Andersson admittedly is an odd situation. There's clearly something going on that we aren't privy to. I've been optimistic on him all along but the longer this goes on it makes me feel like he may not be that good. I mean when we drafted him the I recall the "experts" talking him up like he was basically going to be a prototypical 3rd line center.

Part of me thinks Quinn sees younger players who clearly have a superior skillset and is tougher on them so they develop a more well rounded game. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it will make us a better team and them a better player in the long run.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 9:32 am : link
Send Lias to Hartford. His current ice time makes no sense.
He's not playing aggressively at all; he's slow to the forecheck  
yatqb : 11/15/2019 9:46 am : link
more often than not. I've been very unimpressed.
Hartford makes no sense IMO  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 10:41 am : link
AHL is a development league, not a punishment.

Lias could bust, anyone can, but he just turned 21. Every great player isn't great (or even good) at 21.

I compared Lias to Marchand and Brendan Gallagher.

Here are their first few seasons until they became 50-pt players:

Marchand:
21 year old season: 20 GP, 1 pt, 20 PIM
22 year old season: 77 GP, 41 pts, 51 PIM
23 year old season: 76 GP, 55 pts, 87 PIM

he was almost 24 before he passed 50 points and he is now, at 31 one of the best players in the game

Gallagher:
20 year old season: 44 GP, 28 pts, 33 PIM
21 year old season: 81 GP, 41 pts, 73 PIM
22 year old season: 82 GP, 47 pts, 31 PIM
23 year old season: 53 GP, 40 pts, 24 PIM *injury
24 year old season: 64 GP, 29 pts, 39 PIM *injury
25 year old season: 82 GP, 54 pts, 34 PIM

he was almost 26 before he broke the 50 point mark and now at 27, he's a consistent 30 goal scorer and one of the best two-way threats

As a 20-year old, Lias put up better than .5 PPG in the AHL.

I would not give up on him, some players aren't great immediately.

And the only reason the scrutiny is so strong for him is he was a 1st round pick vs 3rd for Marchand and 5th for Gallagher. And he plays in NY.

I don't judge based on pedigree, just what I see.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 11:24 am : link
The AHL wouldn't be a punishment. It would be to give him the ice time he needs to develop.
RE: ...  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 11:25 am : link
In comment 14680179 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
The AHL wouldn't be a punishment. It would be to give him the ice time he needs to develop.


Right, my point was he's beyond AHL IMO. And sending him there wouldn't develop him any more, but it would be a punishment (for what, I don't know).

He'd be better off in Sweden.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 11:45 am : link
I don't think he's outgrown the AHL. Chytil looked like he didn't belong there, but Andersson needs ice time above all else IMO. It's not like he dominated the AHL when he was last there.
IMO  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 11:58 am : link
the AHL is a heavy, physical league.

less on skill/talent, less space, I don't view it as a place for a player like Andersson to develop - and the more I think about it Kravtsov was right to go to the KHL. He's benefitting more from the KHL which is a better league than the AHL. Same with the SEL.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 2:35 pm : link
That's fair, I don't know the AHL that well. I'm just really frustrated that Andersson is given goon time. I think he has talent and can be a contributor and isn't being given a fair shot. Sure, he's not dominating but neither is Howden. He should get 3C time.
That's my opinion too  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 2:54 pm : link
Andersson should be getting more NHL time with better linemates.

He's not a player who will drive a line (not at 21 years old), but he is a player who will make his linemates better (to a point) and benefit from better linemates.

When I watched Andersson last he centered Haley (an old NHL journeyman) and Smith (a defenseman) and he outskated both of them. Another time he was on a line with Brendan Lemieux.

I do think to a point you need to earn playing with better linemates, but sometimes you get stuck in purgatory and that has to be demoralizing to a young player.

Last thing I'll say is where I started, as a fan, I'm sure we don't know the whole story. There could be attitude issues (see DeAngelo in the past) or effort issues, or maybe he's just not picking up the system and understanding his responsibilities, but in my amateur opinion sometimes young players are better off learning those lessons at the NHL level.

And that was my point a couple weeks ago, that if I were the Rangers I'd focus on player development and not get caught up in early successes and feel pressured to contend - even with Panarin and Trouba. Yes you want to win, but that doesn't mean give Howden more PT over Andersson.

That's what really annoys a lot of us  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 3:00 pm : link
Why doesn't Howden ever get singled out? He has not played well at all, yet he doesn't get his ice time cut. He doesn't ever get dropped to the 4th line. He doesn't get sent to the press box, or god forbid Hartford. It looks like selective acccountability.
100% with you, pj.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/15/2019 3:13 pm : link
I also think Howden has been very bad at points. It's not like he deserves the time over Lias.
No, he doesn't  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 3:57 pm : link
Howden's fancypants stats are pretty similar to Lias'. Slightly better, but that's probably a function of skating with better linemates. Yet Howden gets 6 more minutes TOI per game and hasn't been benched. Why?
PFCAS18  
Jay in Toronto : 11/15/2019 4:04 pm : link
I agree with your assessment on Lias and am a bit puzzled about how is is used.

Everyone agrees that Quinn is a clear and honest communicator, so I assume Lias has the details behind their thinking.

There are people on staff who know about the development of young players. I hope they don't bail prematurely.
I don’t think I agree with you, pj.  
yatqb : 11/15/2019 5:07 pm : link
I think that Andersson should work on his game in the AHL, and hopefully he’ll become the more physical, in your face player I hope for.

Right now he’s a non-factor. And imo Howden, whatever the stats, is more determined and physical than LA by a long shot. I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a 3rd liner on a good team, but right ow LA has to show me something to convince me that he will even be that. I think the AHL gives him more opportunities to better his game and confidence. Success is a great way to add energy to his game.

Determined and physical?  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 5:09 pm : link
I don't care how determined he is, he's doing nothing positive for the team.
RE: I don’t think I agree with you, pj.  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14680524 yatqb said:
Quote:
I think that Andersson should work on his game in the AHL, and hopefully he’ll become the more physical, in your face player I hope for.

Right now he’s a non-factor. And imo Howden, whatever the stats, is more determined and physical than LA by a long shot. I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a 3rd liner on a good team, but right ow LA has to show me something to convince me that he will even be that. I think the AHL gives him more opportunities to better his game and confidence. Success is a great way to add energy to his game.


Maybe. but did you ever wonder why you can play in the NHL at 18, but not in the AHL until you're 20 if you come from the CHL (Canadian juniors)? It's not just to keep the CHL teams competitive.

Most of the AHL arguments I hear for highly drafted Euros that are in favor of the AHL for young players, are to become acclimated to the smaller North American rinks.

Otherwise, generally, they stay in Europe.

The Swedish League (SEL), the KHL, La Liga (Finland) are all better quality hockey generally speaking than the AHL.
I'm as confused as any of you  
Davisian : 11/15/2019 7:33 pm : link
As to Lias' usage versus Howdens usage, but I also haven't seen anything that tells me Lias has earned more time.

Yes, shitty linemates, but he always seemed like a player at other levels who is more active at both ends regardless of who's out there. I don't see that at all. Like he's not playing on instinct right now and he's not affecting games like I think he'll eventually do.

It could be something with Quinn, but I just don't think he's looked like he's earned more time.
Agree with that take, Davisian.  
yatqb : 11/15/2019 7:49 pm : link
No impact whatsoever.
PJ  
Jay in Toronto : 11/16/2019 12:53 pm : link
Do you think the Habs might have an interest in one of our goalies?
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 11/16/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14680936 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Do you think the Habs might have an interest in one of our goalies?


maybe at the deadline. Kinkaid is their backup, and I was never a fan of his.

but they have Cayden Primeau who is a 20 year old phenom from Northeastern (Keith Primeau's son) now playing in AHL, and several players between Laval (AHL) and ECHL including Charlie Lindgren and Michael McNiven who IMO are probably similar to Georgiev.

If the Habs are in contention near the deadline I can see them make a play for a legit backup, I'm just not sure how they view Georgiev vs their current depth or even Shesterkin vs Primeau.

Hank is another story. If he says he'd waive his NMC/NTC - whichever he has, which I'd always heard was a hard no for him, absolutely. In a stretch run he'd be pretty valuable IMO.
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