This is going to be a big story in the morning. For those of you who did not stay up late, Garrett ripped the helmet off of Mason Rudolph and swung it at him, connecting with Rudolph's head. Rudolph seems fine, but the act itself was incredibly dangerous and Garrett might have an unprecedented suspension coming his way. Possibly season ending.
And Pouncey, although I can't blame him, went nuts on Garrett with punches and kicked him in the head and neck area while he was pinned. All of this and there was :08 seconds left in the game.
And these two teams play again in two weeks.
This is the most Browns thing ever. The defense just played a great game, Mayfield was good, they ran the ball well, and physically beat a division rival they hadn't beaten in what, 5 years I think Joe Buck said? They get a huge win, the game is ending, and their best defensive player puts himself in a situation where he may not play again this season.
This is worse than Haynesworth.
He could have killed Rudolph. Or broken his neck.
You do something like that, no second chances. Goodbye.
I'm guessing he's suspended for the rest of the season
It will be interesting to see how this is viewed by the NFL. I think it may end up being an indefinite suspension to start. Personally I do not expect him to be on the field again this season. I doubt there will be any arrests but maybe their should be in all honesty. This can't happen. And yeah, he could've killed him. Especially horrible knowing Rudolph had that devastating concussion earlier in the season.
He could have killed Rudolph. Or broken his neck.
You do something like that, no second chances. Goodbye.
Amen Assault Life time Ban he is trash !
If Rudolph had a concussion earlier this season, then he probably shouldn't have tried to rip Garrett's helmet off.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. Can't remember ever anything like that in 50 years of watching the NFL.
Wonder WTF set him off?
Fight - ( New Window )
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If he doesn't get at least three games I'll be very surprised.
I'm guessing he's suspended for the rest of the season
Hey, the more the better.
I agree that Mason should have walked away but heat of the moment, Myles should have just dropped the helmet but he decided hes Myles Garrett so he doesn't have to.
Rudolph was idiotic. I didn't think the hit was late, really, it was a clean hit, and I think that was frustration by Rudolph after a difficult loss where he got hit a lot and had a lot of turnovers.
But that's a penalty, maybe a fine.
Swinging a helmet at a dude's unprotected head is obviously on a completely different level.
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Especially horrible knowing Rudolph had that devastating concussion earlier in the season.
If Rudolph had a concussion earlier this season, then he probably shouldn't have tried to rip Garrett's helmet off.
Yep Rudolph ignited the fire
Garretts act is inexcusable. But lifetime ban? Were people saying that when Beckham helmet speared an unsuspecting Norman. How about pitchers beaning hitters with 100 mph heaters intentionally
It's not supposed to help someone who would do what he just did. And it might help someone. It might open other players' eyes that if you're going to do something like that, be ready to pay for it with your career in the NFL.
It's not gonna happen. But you can make an argument that it should.
Yep Rudolph ignited the fire
I'm not defending Garrett. He literally tried to assault someone with a weapon. However, Rudolph overreacted to a late hit that was hardly Jim McMahon being bodyslammed.
Don't committ assault on live tv?
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Yep Rudolph ignited the fire
I'm not defending Garrett. He literally tried to assault someone with a weapon. However, Rudolph overreacted to a late hit that was hardly Jim McMahon being bodyslammed.
Garrett should not be condoned. His actions will overshadow Rudolphs. What if it was a black qb, Cam for example, in place of rudolph
The hit where he took Siemian out for the year was his second roughing-the-passer penalty of the game and the second time he went after Siemian knowing he was going to get the penalty and did not care.
Garrett wanted to take Siemian out. The Jets were already helpless to move the ball and would be even more helpless with a third string QB.
So who cares about a 15 yard penalty? Or two?
Garrett did not get ejected from that game because the NFL doesn't really care about player safety.
We'll see how much they care about appearances in this case.
Yes. You do something that could kill someone on the field, you lose your job for good. He can't ever see an NFL field again.
Why does anyone on earth think Garrett deserves to play another down in the NFL.
He easily could have killed him.
Trying to get his hand out? Come on. Rudolph grabbed the back of Garrett's helmet and nearly pulls it off.
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In comment 14679789 Nine-Tails said:
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Yep Rudolph ignited the fire
I'm not defending Garrett. He literally tried to assault someone with a weapon. However, Rudolph overreacted to a late hit that was hardly Jim McMahon being bodyslammed.
Garrett should not be condoned. His actions will overshadow Rudolphs. What if it was a black qb, Cam for example, in place of rudolph
I don't see race being an element in this at all.
I think there would be no change in the outrage of Garrett's actions. Nor the level of criticism of Rudolph's. One guy was stupid and overreacted, causing more stupidity. But the outcome of Garrett's actions could've been a dead football player on live TV.
Hyperbole? I don't know, but that was incredibly dangerous, and has nothing to do with race.
It looked like that to me too and Aikman seemed to think that was the case as well.
The hit where he took Siemian out for the year was his second roughing-the-passer penalty of the game and the second time he went after Siemian knowing he was going to get the penalty and did not care.
The Trevor Semian hit was WAY dirtier than the hit that started this fracas. All he got was a fine.
Only a bad person with a mind that works like that of a criminal would think to do that. That's harsh but I don't know how else to put it.
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No excuse for trying to assault Rudolph, but that's the entire story.
Rudolph was idiotic. I didn't think the hit was late, really, it was a clean hit, and I think that was frustration by Rudolph after a difficult loss where he got hit a lot and had a lot of turnovers.
But that's a penalty, maybe a fine.
Swinging a helmet at a dude's unprotected head is obviously on a completely different level.
The initial hit was fine, it was the 3-4 seconds of Garrett trying to twist him down that wasn't
For life? He is free to seek employment outside of a multi million dollar sports league. It would help deter any other assholes from pissing their genetic lottery ticket away.
"His right hand was stuck" is unequivocally incorrect. If you mean Mason's left hand...I guess it's possible, but it doesn't look like it to me. It looks like Mason was trying to rip Garrett's helmet off.
Doesn't excuse Garrett in any way from ASSAULTING Rudolph with his own helmet, but the "his hand was stuck" argument seems bogus.
Really? What a great human? Baker got it right post game in his comments.
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spoke for 5 minutes and never once did he apologize to Rudolph. He doesn't care what he did. He's a thug.
Really? What a great human? Baker got it right post game in his comments.
Well Baker post post interview was not great. Blamed the media for how they are being viewed and blamed the media for why everyone hates them
Would anyone besides Cleveland fans care if he got some season-ending payback?
Hell, if the Browns played the Giants this year I'd hope someone would take him out of the game before he ended Jones's career.
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Especially horrible knowing Rudolph had that devastating concussion earlier in the season.
If Rudolph had a concussion earlier this season, then he probably shouldn't have tried to rip Garrett's helmet off.
obvious troll is obvious
Cleveland is slime. They've lived up to their worst expectations... and then some.
Very surprised no other Steelers really tried to stand up for Rudolph after that cheap shot! One player pushed him but that was it.
but then I watched the replay and it really does look like Garrett's helmet is awkwardly somehow connected to Rudolph's wrist for several seconds, which may have been the confusion that caused this to escalate to the level it escalated to. I'm not certain of this and this certainly doesn't excuse either player's behavior, but I'm thinking about what may have happened (obviously this is pure speculation)...
My theory here being:
Garrett was excessive picking Rudolph up and driving him to the ground, I have no idea how that wasn't a roughing the passer call to begin with, but of course we see stuff like that a lot. But then if Rudolph's hand was stuck in Garrett's helmet, he might have been 1) afraid of risking injury somehow and was desperately trying to get it off, 2) was doing it in an excessive and aggressive manner in part because he WAS pissed about the way Garrett tackled him. THEN-- Garrett thinking that Rudolph was literally trying to tear his helmet off (which wasn't fully what Rudolph was trying to do, mainly get his hand out but was doing so in an aggressive manner), obviously Garrett was super pissed at this and decided to tear Rudolph's helmet off by the face mask. Either way it was completely inexcusable. If a guy tries to tear your helmet off, it's one thing to tear his off, but to tear it off by lifting him off the ground by the facemask?? And then HITTING said player square in the HEAD with a full force blow using a HELMET as a weapon???? Yeah, that was insane. Garrett has issues.
I think he's a weirdo anyway to be honest. Did anyone see that his mom specifically requested him to get that Sports Illustrated Body Issue spot and pose naked? I think that Body Issue thing is weird as hell anyway but it's weird that his mom pushed/requested him to do it and then she was there watching. Hmmmmm. Not that this explains his behavior tonight, I just think he's a different kinda dude. I'd be weirded out if my mom specifically pushed for me to randomly pose naked on a beach and then came and watched me do it, especially considering it's not like Garrett is a professional model nor has a history of modeling so like wtf? Random.
Pouncey kicking Garrett on the top of the head while he's pinned to the ground is pretty horrendous
With all these new flags for safety & reviews for 'getting it right' - holy shit - it sure isn't working. Freeman punching Donald who's got him by the head / neck iirc? OBJ choked out by was it Humphrey, the Bal DB? I don't know these were penalized or fined either fwiw. And THEN lets talk about the actual football...speaking of holy shit
Hmmm...Don't know how real that is because it is not anywhere on her twitter timeline. If anything she is saying Garrett was way out of line
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Is intolerable.
Hmmm...Don't know how real that is because it is not anywhere on her twitter timeline. If anything she is saying Garrett was way out of line
She deleted it pretty quickly but luckily someone screengrabbed it. Pretty quick turn around (and weird vendetta) if its a smear job, but its plausible I suppose.
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Is intolerable.
Hmmm...Don't know how real that is because it is not anywhere on her twitter timeline. If anything she is saying Garrett was way out of line
Josina deleted the tweet but it was screenshot by multiple people.
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In comment 14679849 colin said:
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Is intolerable.
Hmmm...Don't know how real that is because it is not anywhere on her twitter timeline. If anything she is saying Garrett was way out of line
Josina deleted the tweet but it was screenshot by multiple people.
Then that is pretty idiotic on her part and she deserves all the shit she's catching
Rudolph started it? I don't care if Rudolph called him names and spit in his face. Garrett ripped Rudolph's helmet off and not only swung that helmet at him, but actually hit him in the head with it. That is totally inexcusable no matter who started what.
Garrett already has a reputation for unsportsmanlike conduct and unnecessary roughness as he has been flagged 5 times already this year (according to ESPN). He has already been fined by the league too.
I truly hope that not only does Garrett get suspended for the rest of this year, but his suspension carries into next season (8 additional games to a full season). The NFL needs to come down hard and heavy especially with the emphasis on concussions.
It is a privilege to play in the NFL, not a right. He should be made an example of and the league should realize how different this could have been if he connected better with the helmet he turned into a weapon.
Im not excusing Garretts reaction. To me Rudolph has justification to file criminal assault charges.
I am not seeing the intent to remove Garret's heet. I'll have to re-watch it a couple more times it seems like I'm in the minority.
I was thinking the same thing about what would have happened if he would have hit him with top of helmet.
Fortunately it didnt seem to have any devastating impact on Rudolph
Yeah, I saw that. Plenty of blame to go around, but when you use a weapon that tends to inflate things. Rudolph, Pouncey and Ogigbah should all get (lesser) suspensions as well. The only one out of the original melee who comes out with any credit is the guy who tackled and subuded Garrett.
This guy has a history of this crap.
I am not seeing the intent to remove Garret's heet. I'll have to re-watch it a couple more times it seems like I'm in the minority.
Yeah, this asshole needs to be suspended for a few games as well. This is not getting enough attention.
As an opponent or a teammate?
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In comment 14679789 Nine-Tails said:
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Yep Rudolph ignited the fire
I'm not defending Garrett. He literally tried to assault someone with a weapon. However, Rudolph overreacted to a late hit that was hardly Jim McMahon being bodyslammed.
Garrett should not be condoned. His actions will overshadow Rudolphs. What if it was a black qb, Cam for example, in place of rudolph
If Bridgewater gets his helmet ripped off and bashed in the head by Watt it's still a big deal. No offense but this take exposes a fault in your mind's eye.
Racism is real and no doubt racists will hate this even more but you don't have to be one to see bashing someone in the head with a football helmet is bad.
Why does race always have to be mentioned.
Important reminder that you should never play without your cup.
No it wasn't! Stop with this NONSENSE!
Garrett had is helmet on.
However, if the core issue is losing control on a football field, I point out that:
A) Pouncey was not involved in the initial scrum of I presume escalating rage on the part of Rudolph and Garret
B) Intervenes several seconds later - when it was essentially over
C) Did not need to
D) Hits a guy being held on the ground
E) Moves around and standing kicks him in the head
imo, I don't know what actually happened with Rudolph, but it sure doesn't look right
Garret should get a substantial suspension
Pouncey is by far and away the most out of control, unfair and dirtiest player in the drama. And could have caused a concussion.
imo, Pouncey should get a long suspension and would not bother me if he got the longest.
Two guys got into it. One went over the top. Pouncey was actually the guy most out of control with minimal provocation for doing so
There's a narrative going around that Rudolph might've said something racist in that tussle. I think it stems from the fact that Mason rudolph is A Giant supporter of a certain Autocrat. It's unsubstantiated, but that's a theory going around.
That's the surprising thing. Until now, Garrett was praised for his character. But it's truly unacceptable and inexcusable.
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
We drove to NJ together and he told me that he got word to Kerry's father that he was attending the game. He said Kerry would try to get him down into the locker room. He told me I could tag along.
Wow! I was shocked and excited. He saw my excitement and I will never forget this....He told me that while for a first timer, it might be exciting...but don't forget that most of these guys are punks, bad actors, violent people.
Long story short, the coach was allowed in, but I was held outside. But his words stuck with me. We look back on our Giants in the 80's and 90's and more recently as heroes and superstars....and some are....but there are also a bunch of guys that if it weren't for football, they might take you out in an alley or kick your ass in a bar......or swing a helmet at a defenseless player without his.
"I lost my cool". And no actual apology.
Should be really interesting what Tomlin does in two weeks.
IMO Garrett and Pouncey need season long suspensions, and a whole slew of 4 game suspensions because you just can't have a bunch of these guys playing each other in 17 days.
Just watched the video. I didn't see anyone getting kicked in the balls. If there was some of that going on from a different angle then it was probably because Garrett wouldn't get the hell off of him.
No excuses. This guy deserves a hefty suspension.
However, if the core issue is losing control on a football field, I point out that:
A) Pouncey was not involved in the initial scrum of I presume escalating rage on the part of Rudolph and Garret
B) Intervenes several seconds later - when it was essentially over
C) Did not need to
D) Hits a guy being held on the ground
E) Moves around and standing kicks him in the head
imo, I don't know what actually happened with Rudolph, but it sure doesn't look right
Garret should get a substantial suspension
Pouncey is by far and away the most out of control, unfair and dirtiest player in the drama. And could have caused a concussion.
imo, Pouncey should get a long suspension and would not bother me if he got the longest.
Two guys got into it. One went over the top. Pouncey was actually the guy most out of control with minimal provocation for doing so
Bill, I respectfully disagree with you about pouncey having minimal provocation and did not need to. He was right there as Garrett swung the helmet and immediately started throwing punches. He was defending his qb and Garrett was crazed and was still fighting on the ground.
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Race is relevant. The closest thing I can remember was the Miami player doing this in that crazy melee.
There's a narrative going around that Rudolph might've said something racist in that tussle. I think it stems from the fact that Mason rudolph is A Giant supporter of a certain Autocrat. It's unsubstantiated, but that's a theory going around.
It will be terrible if that narrative takes hold. Mason Rudolph never had any incidents in high school, and when he comes back to the area, he spends time with his ex-teammates, almost all of whom are African-American. He'd be one of the least likely people to start spouting off racist comments.
Pouncey is by far and away the most out of control, unfair and dirtiest player in the drama. And could have caused a concussion.
Um... not so sure about that take
Pretty sure swinging a helmet and hitting someone in the head is far and away more : out of control, unfair, dirty & can cause a concussion
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With tensions already high that is something that can definitely send you over the edge.
Just watched the video. I didn't see anyone getting kicked in the balls. If there was some of that going on from a different angle then it was probably because Garrett wouldn't get the hell off of him.
No excuses. This guy deserves a hefty suspension.
I don't know how you missed that, he stomped Garrett in the man parts when he was on the ground.
Im not excusing Garretts reaction. To me Rudolph has justification to file criminal assault charges.
He could have walked away? Victim blaming much?
A teammate comes in to protect his teammate at all costs and he is the real person to blame here?
Come the fuck on...
I dont hate anyone or anything and work hard not to be biased. While he may be pinned I e seen enough fights where someone gets back up after being pinned. He was still a threat as it was a matter of a few seconds. One Garrett brought a weapon to the fight gloves are off.
How so?
The shit you read on this board.....
Seriously?...no one is saying what Pouncey did was right, but he was kicking a helmeted individual with his foot and hand, which neither are harder than the helmet on Garrett's head.
Garrett literally swung a weapon at another man's exposed head. I've heard of people getting knocked out or have more severe head injuries for less of a hit. It's almost a miracle that Rudolph wasn't seriously hurt since a helmet connecting with a head can be severely damaging or even fatal.
Give me a damn break. A lot of people were stupid, but what Garrett did is far worse than what anyone else did last night.
Garrett needs to be suspended indefinitely until the league figures this out. I'm thinking a full year at a minimum.
Rudolph and the Steelers involved should be fined and miss time as well.
Inexcusable. Period.
Go for it.
What? How in the world could you possibly have that take on this? Garrett basically swung a weapon and is lucky if there aren't any criminal charges coming his way. He could've killed Rudolph or at least severely injured him.
Pouncey throwing punches isn't even close to being as dangerous. Garrett being in full pads and helmet probably didn't even feel the punches or attempted kicks by Pouncey. In fact I'd say Pouncey had a better chance of hurting his own hand than any part of Garrett.
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
Remember that happening, but never really tied it to him being traded. Not a crazy theory that it contributed.
Maybe it is just here on BBI, because all the sports talk I have heard thus far is all talking about Garrett and his indefinite suspension. No one is calling Pouncey out, in fact, many of the former players are giving him praise for sticking up for this teammate.
Pouncey did what players are taught to do - stand up for their teammate. What isn't taught is to take a piece of equipment and use it as a weapon.
Ah...no I don't bother with the punches when restraining Garret.
Im talking about kicking him in the head after he was restrained and down. That specific action
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It appears to me he nearly took Garretts helmet off first. I cant tell whether Rudolph intended to, but its not unreasonable to interpret it this way. Rudolph later joined back in the scrum, without helmet, where he could have walked away.
Im not excusing Garretts reaction. To me Rudolph has justification to file criminal assault charges.
He could have walked away? Victim blaming much?
It's not victim blaming. It's telling the entire story, which often doesn't happen in these cases. 99.99% of everyone thinks Garrett tried to assault Rudolph with a weapon. It's not wrong to say Rudolph precipitated the event by overreacting and trying to pull Garrett's helmet off.
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With tensions already high that is something that can definitely send you over the edge.
Just watched the video. I didn't see anyone getting kicked in the balls. If there was some of that going on from a different angle then it was probably because Garrett wouldn't get the hell off of him.
No excuses. This guy deserves a hefty suspension.
Nah the 'grab' was as Rudolph got up after the helmet was ripped off, there was potentially a 'kick' to the balls by Rudolph immediately after the tackle before the helmet came off. None of it excuses Garrett. And frankly it's not clear from the still that Rudolph actually grabbed/punched him in the junk (some of the video looks that way) and the 'kick' looks pretty accidental as Rudolph is tipped.
The 'grab'
The 'kick'
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
You didnt hear about that? Im not so sure that incident is why he was traded though, seems like a stretch.
I don't think it's worse than Garrett's by a longshot - had he landed cleanly with the helmet and not the mask/pad, he could have crippled or killed Rudolph. Pouncey punching a guy down on the ground and kicking him has precedent, and while it's not exactly acceptable behavior it hasn't resulted in any serious injury to date.
Both of them should get suspensions. Not sure how lengthy Garrett's will be only because of how unusual the situation is. The NFL makes a big stink about player safety, don't think they can't walk past this one.
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
This was a topic on BBI at the time. Where was the outrage? Where were the calls for lifetime bans and cops at Snacks locker?
Hell, people are still pissed at Gettleman for only getting a 5th rounder.
Garrett is a scumbag and deserves to be suspended. But all of this faux outrage is ridiculous.
Just that ...nothing else. Don't assume its football.
What happens in a court of law? Assault with intent to cause significant harm?
Each part of the sequence stands on its own in a court of law. Defending my friend after what happened earlier at the bar...isn't a defense. Man is responsible for each action ?
Or do we disagree?
Ah...no I don't bother with the punches when restraining Garret.
Im talking about kicking him in the head after he was restrained and down. That specific action
We seem to be the only ones on the same page about this. It isn't like we are out here saying Garrett shouldn't be getting a season long suspension, but Pouncey should as well. You can't even do that shit in MMA, and Garrett is completely defenseless.
Myles Garrett appeared very chill to me in the Hard Knocks episodes he was on. FWIW, if I were a talk show host, I'd get Rudolph and Garrett on as guests together. That would be good TV.
Pouncey did what players are taught to do - stand up for their teammate. What isn't taught is to take a piece of equipment and use it as a weapon.
Players should never throw punches or kicks, but lets be real here, Garrett just swung a helmet at his quarterback.
Pouncey will probably get a game or so suspension, but the coaching staff isn't going to say a word to him about it because linemen are trained to protect their QB.
Would have been interesting to see how Hernandez would have reacted in Pouncey's position.
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Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
This was a topic on BBI at the time. Where was the outrage? Where were the calls for lifetime bans and cops at Snacks locker?
Hell, people are still pissed at Gettleman for only getting a 5th rounder.
Garrett is a scumbag and deserves to be suspended. But all of this faux outrage is ridiculous.
I know most people would assume you're joking because of how ridiculous your post is, but you realize that tweet is about the extent of what most people know about that incident?
This was broadcast on live television then replayed about a thousand times after.
I don't think it's worse than Garrett's by a longshot - had he landed cleanly with the helmet and not the mask/pad, he could have crippled or killed Rudolph. Pouncey punching a guy down on the ground and kicking him has precedent, and while it's not exactly acceptable behavior it hasn't resulted in any serious injury to date.
Both of them should get suspensions. Not sure how lengthy Garrett's will be only because of how unusual the situation is. The NFL makes a big stink about player safety, don't think they can't walk past this one.
I doubt Pouncey gets suspended in light of the situation and the fact he was ejected. Other guys who throw punches don't get suspensions.
No suspension for Green.
2. I generally am very much against hitting people who are down; you won the fight, no need to seriously hurt someone.
Even with (1) and (2), I can't get very mad at Pouncey here. If someone tries to assault your friend with a deadly weapon, it's very likely you're going to lose your sh**. He was sticking up for his QB who could have been maimed.
He couldve cracked Rudolphs skull possibly ending his Career or worse. He should lose his job playing in the NFL is a privilege.
Yeh the people that are flat out excusing them from any repercussions here is odd. Like I understand why all players did what they did here, but it isn't an excuse and they should be seeing some hefty suspensions.
Hard to see Rudolphs hand and just how that happened or what was happening but I dont see Rudolph really pulling on Garretts helmet like hes trying to take it off.
That said, Garrett could have killed the QB.
then he kicked a guy being held on the ground in the head.
Garret being very wrong is true and stands on its own.
Ditto Pouncey
one guy was in a fracus and lost control. one guy self nominated himself a righteous avenger after the fact and under no threat.
imo, both suck
and Rudolph may as well. I don't get the hand stuck in the facemask contention as clearly. If on purpose is a lot different than inadvertently stuck
I doubt Pouncey gets suspended in light of the situation and the fact he was ejected. Other guys who throw punches don't get suspensions.
No suspension for Green.
Don't get me wrong - I'd suspend Pouncey, if for nothing else than the kick which would easily have been far worse than all the punches.
(which, having only played football at lower levels, I can't for the life of me understand throwing punches to the head of a player with a helmet on)
I don't know what the NFL will do. They'll likely just fine him, but I think his behavior warrants a suspension as well.
Talk about someone else who should lose their job
In a vacuum cannot really be viewed because Pouncey didn't just go off on Garrett unprovoked. He went after him after seeing the guy take a piece of equipment and use it as a weapon. I'm not saying he shouldn't face disciplinary action, but I'd much more buy the explanation from Pouncey that he lost his shit after seeing what Garrett did.
And here's a point that needs to be made too - the whole event was unnecessary. There were 6 seconds left in the game. The Browns already had a win. Garrett could have just pointed to the scoreboard and walked off the field.
Pouncey isn't devoid of fault, but he's doing what players are taught from a young age - have your teammate's back.
However, if the core issue is losing control on a football field, I point out that:
A) Pouncey was not involved in the initial scrum of I presume escalating rage on the part of Rudolph and Garret
B) Intervenes several seconds later - when it was essentially over
C) Did not need to
D) Hits a guy being held on the ground
E) Moves around and standing kicks him in the head
imo, I don't know what actually happened with Rudolph, but it sure doesn't look right
Garret should get a substantial suspension
Pouncey is by far and away the most out of control, unfair and dirtiest player in the drama. And could have caused a concussion.
imo, Pouncey should get a long suspension and would not bother me if he got the longest.
Two guys got into it. One went over the top. Pouncey was actually the guy most out of control with minimal provocation for doing so
Pounced shouldnt be suspended at all. He was defending his teammate he wasnt out of line at all
Sure Pouncy deserves time off. But Garret better sit 5 games. Period and all the other stuff will get sorted out.
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In comment 14679894 Eric from BBI said:
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Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
29m
Damon Harrison similarly swung a helmet at teammate Will Hernandez in #Giants practice last year during a no video allowed period. He missed. He was traded by midseason
This was a topic on BBI at the time. Where was the outrage? Where were the calls for lifetime bans and cops at Snacks locker?
Hell, people are still pissed at Gettleman for only getting a 5th rounder.
Garrett is a scumbag and deserves to be suspended. But all of this faux outrage is ridiculous.
I know most people would assume you're joking because of how ridiculous your post is, but you realize that tweet is about the extent of what most people know about that incident?
This was broadcast on live television then replayed about a thousand times after.
There was a lengthy thread here shortly after it happened. Zero outrage.
So your point is this was so outrageous simply because it was televised?
The only differences between the Snacks incident and the Garrett one were that it was televised and Garrett connected with the helmet.
In the Snacks situation no one here called for so much as a suspension. Here the twitter mob is calling for a lifetime ban and jail time.
Again, last night was pretty egregious and the optics are bad for the league. Garrett should get a lengthy suspension.
But the faux outrage is definitely over the top and a little hypocritical when our own player did the same shit to a teammate in training camp.
Again, both players need to be suspended.
The punches while Garret was still "live" and not restrained are not cool, but to me understandable.
Its the post restrained on the ground and held...and then the step around into position and then a clear kick to his head.
that's imo, suspension worthy as well as Garrett's actions. How much and all that im not claiming im close to Solomon when it comes to understanding the NFLs non Solomonic reasoning
The lengthy thread? There's lengthy threads here on UFOs and Halloween candy, doesn't mean there's any additional verifiable information or proof in it.
This entire incident played out in high def slow mo and was replayed a thousand times over. Outrage isn't "faux" - if he hits Rudolph cleanly there we're talking criminal investigation.
honestly, the debate is comical.
If someone smashed a bottle over someone's head at a bar I'd have no problem with people holding him down and bashing his head in until he stopped. Once you start violence rules go out the window.
Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.
"bring out Garrett"
reminds me of slapshot.
Rudolph does intentionally try to take Garrett's helmet off. Flag
Rudoph does intentionally kick Garrett in the nads. Flag.
Garrett does intentionally hit Rudoph in the head. Suspension.
Pouncey kicks Garrett in the head. Suspension.
Ogunjobi does hit Rudolph in the back. Flag.
honestly, the debate is comical.
What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?
Just that ...nothing else. Don't assume its football.
What happens in a court of law? Assault with intent to cause significant harm?
Each part of the sequence stands on its own in a court of law. Defending my friend after what happened earlier at the bar...isn't a defense. Man is responsible for each action ?
Or do we disagree?
The biggest difference is Garrett was still wearing his helmet. Not saying what Pouncey did was right or good, but it's a huge game changer
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Is intolerable.
Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.
Of course it would be. Cam Newton is on the sidelines, you'd have to be a complete maniac on bath salts to assault someone on the sideline with their own helmet.
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Rudolph- 1 game
honestly, the debate is comical.
What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?
he didnt do much of anything. Maybe defend himself with a take down that was illegal. Sure. If anything that should be it. If it were me, i wouldnt give him anything. But if i did, 1 game is enough. Myles on the other hand should get more than 10 games.
No. Garett tried to kill a guy. People have every right to do whetever they can to get him down and prevent further damage. This reminds of the BS argument that homeowners shouldn't defend their homes. Garett lost any right to rpotection the second he swung a helmet at Rudolph's head.
Fuck the Browns. Fuck Cleavland. Fuck Baker Mayfield. Fuck OBJ. Fuck Kitchens. Fuck Gareet. And fuck the Cleavland Indians and Cavaliers as well.
I understand Pouncey's "motivations" and what set him off far more than I have any sympathy for Garrett ( who imo, did not need to be a shit at the end of the game to being with).
Im not talking about the relative merit of their motivations.
One doesn't committ a motivation violation. One commits an action that is a violation.
Yes your honor, I kicked Mabel for always laughing at me in front of my friends. Yeah, Mr Smith, she should not have laughed at you. Take six months in county
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In comment 14679849 colin said:
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Is intolerable.
Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.
Of course it would be. Cam Newton is on the sidelines, you'd have to be a complete maniac on bath salts to assault someone on the sideline with their own helmet.
I wouldn't put it past Garrett. He is a punk and scumbag.
The lengthy thread? There's lengthy threads here on UFOs and Halloween candy, doesn't mean there's any additional verifiable information or proof in it.
This entire incident played out in high def slow mo and was replayed a thousand times over. Outrage isn't "faux" - if he hits Rudolph cleanly there we're talking criminal investigation.
It wasnt just some random beat reporter. Shurmur commented on it as well. Snacks ripped off Hernandezs helmet and swung it at him at a training camp practice. Thats the facts.
The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck
The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck
I gotta confess Bill, I didn't think of that.
ejection/fine/suspension worthy...sure. Being some kind of massively dangerous situation...not so much.
"bring out Garrett"
reminds me of slapshot.
Several former players are all over the media today saying the same damn thing. Play contrarian all you want, but its not just a BBI reaction
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In comment 14679967 GMAN4LIFE said:
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Rudolph- 1 game
honestly, the debate is comical.
What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?
he didnt do much of anything. Maybe defend himself with a take down that was illegal. Sure. If anything that should be it. If it were me, i wouldnt give him anything. But if i did, 1 game is enough. Myles on the other hand should get more than 10 games.
I dont see anything from Rudolph that is wrong. I dont see him kicking Garrett or trying to get his helmet off. I doubt even a fine for him. Garrett, gone for a while.
If Pouncey kicked a bit harder he could have snapped his neck.
The punches I don't care so much about because let's be honest - punches are practically routine, and you've never really heard of anyone getting seriously injured by a punch in a football game.
The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck
Definitely a fair point. I don't think that'll change enough peoples views though based on the optics
I feel like life is imitating art too much. It reminds me of the point -- counter-point skit in the movie Airplane! when they were "arguing" about the fate of the plane that was in the air.
And the counterpoint was so beautiful "they bought their tickets...they knew this could happen"
There isn't another side here. You want to talk about suspending Pouncey, but seeing anyone try to justify Garrett in any way really goes on my "ignore" list.
When you are upright, the ability to brace your neck is significantly different ( especially if a blow comes from the front or slightly to the side) then when prone and the hit is from behind.
Before seatbelts and headrests and modern bumpers, necks snapped from rear collisions because the head is moving in whatever direction with no muscular tension of the neck, shoulders or chest to hold back its velocity.
When you are upright, the ability to brace your neck is significantly different ( especially if a blow comes from the front or slightly to the side) then when prone and the hit is from behind.
Before seatbelts and headrests and modern bumpers, necks snapped from rear collisions because the head is moving in whatever direction with no muscular tension of the neck, shoulders or chest to hold back its velocity.
👍
Every person over four knows you can hurt someone badly by swinging a hard object like a helmet at someone else's unprotected head.
Takes a lot of out of control to override a basic biological understanding from early childhood
I don't know about you, but im not into giving other people control or being able to bring risk into my life.
The way the law can work is that someday, somewhere, some up for re-election DA is going to wade in on behalf of his outraged voters.
stupid follows stupid
No place for this in the NFL or any league for that matter.
Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.
I dont think its assault, but NFL needs to send a message, not only to Garrett, but also the public.
Realistically he should get remainder of this year and all of next year. Pouncey should get 1 game.
He could have walked away? Victim blaming much?
No, Its not a victim blaming. Im looking at the facts as shown on video, and it shows Rudolph initially grabbing Garretts helmet, to the point where it nearly comes off his head. That is certainly what triggered Garrett. And yes, a grown adult with control of his emotions can choose to walk away.
Im not excusing Garrett though.
FMIC brought up a great point, too. There had to be a LOT of bad blood going on, the game was over at that point, and there was no reason to go full out pass rush with 8 or so seconds to go.
The real villain here is Freddie Kitchens, who did not have control of the team (or intentionally was having his players injure the opposition). There were several direct helmet shots to the head by the Browns, and I'm sure Mason was pissed off (not to excuse his behavior). Kitchens needed to get control no later than halftime, but the cheap shots just kept getting worst.
I kept thinking Greg Williams was the DC...if not, that's the type of game Williams would encourage as a DC. And the Browns have been that type of team all season.
Gotta love the USA.
at a minimum - done for the rest of the season, I'm thinking more. could have fractured rudolph's skull
pouncey - 2 games seems about right
Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.
I was going to say 8 for Garrett, but 16 is defensible too.
I'd give Pouncey 4 games, punching/kicking a guy like that needs to be punished severely, even if Garrett "deserved" it.
Finally, I'd give Rudolph 1 game for his actions and the Browns defender (too lazy to look up the spelling) who laid Rudolph out after Garrett was taken down a 1 game suspension.
Both teams and/or head coaches should be fined as well.
Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.
Yeah I agree with you but at the very least it needs to be ten games for Garrett.
I could also see Pouncey only getting one game but two seems right because it went beyond throwing punches when he started kicking at Garrett.
Understood.. and he should expect a fine, perhaps. A suspension would be out of line in my opinion
Gotta love the USA.
Amazing how far folks will go to excuse athletes for anything. Because you know if your hand is "stuck" in a helmet the only course of action is to twist the mans neck while dragging him across the ground. And it only follows that the frustration from that situation will cause one to swing a helmet at an unprotected head.
There were two situations were Garret could have caused a critical injury. He should be facing assault charges and getting a 16 game suspension starting now.
If he slammed Garrett to the ground like DeCastro or threw a couple punches, then I can see that. He went way beyond any rational "protection" of his QB though and I think at one point after starting to walk away he comes back and starts kicking him again.
but that's just my WAG
Gotta love the USA.
I'm not absolving Garrett at all, he's a scumbag for swinging the helmet for ANY reason. However, there were several head shots that were nearly as bad by the Browns (including a Helmet to head that drew blood), and there's no way Kitchens does not see that. He needed to call a time out and take control of his team.
Like it or not, the Head Coach is responsible for the behavior of his players during the game. There's a reason for that, because the game is violent enough as it is in terms of injury. You can't have gladiator games out there, the NFL would be shut down if that happened, and they know this.
If you, as a head coach, can't control your players, you need to be fired. We talked about this on BBI with Coughlin not pulling out OBJ when he went after Norman years ago.
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initial reaction was understandable - then it was over and he continued while refs were trying to gain control. can't have that
Understood.. and he should expect a fine, perhaps. A suspension would be out of line in my opinion
A single punch is an auto ejection and if you had any sort of history of late hits/unnecessary roughness, it would likely also draw a suspension. Multiple punches and kicks? Has to be at least a couple games.
but that's just my WAG
That's my guess as well. No way he's back on the field this year for sure at the least.
The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck
Bingo, that is the first thing I thought, you can break a guys neck like that, especially a 300 lb man against a completely immobilized Garrett. Both guys should be suspended for the season.
Pouncey will get one as well but far less. For those questioning him, try to think about the mindset of a OL regarding his QB. Protect.
From a young age the QB right or wrong is looked at differently when it comes to contact. They wear a red shirt in practice, some think coddled with rules favoring them but to a OL protecting him is sacred imv.
Looking at the replay Pouncey seems to lose it when Garrett swung helmet. If he didn't I think he just would have shoved him.
Garrett has been somewhat unhinged this year. Hes had some flagrant physical play thats been clear and not disciplined. Hes gotten a lot of fouls and penalties called and some have been the judgement type but hes basically now gone out and tried to hurt quarterbacks three times this year.
Pouncey gets four games, appeals and has it reduced to two games.
There is no excuses for Garrett's behavior or actions. He could have caused a serious injury. I think the league makes an example out of him.
Pouncey's past doesn't help him, which I why I think he gets the four games, but gets reduced to two through appeal.
And threw him on ground in what should have been an obvious penalty
Garrett was still on top of him when Rudolph even did anything to him
Then Garrett violently rips his helmet off him in what could have badly injured him
Then swings it and connects at his head
Rudolph is a victim here 100%
Garrett never should have still been on top of him at that point of the play.
There is a difference between "attempt" if that was even that and actually ripping a helmet off and actually using it as a weapon and hitting an unprotected player with it.
Big difference between the two
Link - ( New Window )
@RapSheet
1m
In all from the NFL:
#Browns
DE Myles Garrett suspended without pay indefinitely, at least the rest of the season.
#Steelers OL Maurkice Pouncey suspended 3 games and fined
#Browns
DL Larry Ogunjobi suspended one game and fined.
Other players involved may be fined.
Pouncey, Garrett and Ogunjobi
Garrett is a 6-4 270 lb human being who aggressively threw him to ground and should be penalized and continued to remain on top of him long after play
Rudolph has a right to get him off him and in the 1-2 seconds his hand touched Garretts helmet, withGarrett on top f him and Rudolph pinned on ground, im not sure I would describe that as an attempt to rip his helmst off.
@RapSheet
1m
In all from the NFL:
#Browns
DE Myles Garrett suspended without pay indefinitely, at least the rest of the season.
#Steelers OL Maurkice Pouncey suspended 3 games and fined
#Browns
DL Larry Ogunjobi suspended one game and fined.
Other players involved may be fined.
For once, I think they got it right.
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helmet off. Acknowledging that happened doesn't make Garrett's actions less egregious. It just gives a full accounting of the events.
There is a difference between "attempt" if that was even that and actually ripping a helmet off and actually using it as a weapon and hitting an unprotected player with it.
Big difference between the two
Once again... ACCURATELY describing the events doesn't lessen the egregious nature of Garrett's actions. If people aren't interested in accurately describing what happened, then they're probably more interested in narratives than the truth.
I think the NFL got this right for once, even though I would have given Pouncey 1 (and could justify 2) based on how the NFL has treated fights in the past. His reputation didn't help him though.
I think the NFL got this right for once, even though I would have given Pouncey 1 (and could justify 2) based on how the NFL has treated fights in the past. His reputation didn't help him though.
Re: Pouncey
1. As you allude to he has a rep for this
2. Past "fights" typically involve 1-2 punches that may or may not connect. He threw at least half a dozen haymakers at a guy who was pinned to the ground, then got up and proceeded to kick him in the helmet.
The other guy? Should get more than Burficts 12 games.
Should have arrested his ass too.
If a guy hits a coworker like that hes in cuffs and in jail. Playing football shouldn't be a factor. He should have been arrested.
I hope Goodell holds a press conference quickly as well. That would be a good time for him to address this and add that any player/coach using any equipment, foreign object, etc. to strike a player/coach will never play in the NFL again.
well from some of the sports talk shows I listened to this morning, let's just politely ysay that Browns fans aren't unilaterally condemning their boys' actions...last night WAS their Super Bowl for all intents and purposes...
as a NYG fan, I'd be embarrassed to root for a squad of such thugs and punks...
C'mon now, let them play.
He certainly gets something for that. But the Garrett actions were way over the top from the initial hit on Rudolph. He most certainly was trying to cause serious injury.
Well we saw Odell helmet spear an unsuspecting Norman, not too different. And Many still cheered him and stayed fans of the team sooo
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I am not sure that I could be a fan of the team anymore. I'd have to think about it. Wonder what Brown fans are thinking.
Well we saw Odell helmet spear an unsuspecting Norman, not too different. And Many still cheered him and stayed fans of the team sooo
One guy had a helmet on, and one guy didnt. Nobody swung a helmet a Normans bare head, so they are very different. Stop making excuses.
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I am not sure that I could be a fan of the team anymore. I'd have to think about it. Wonder what Brown fans are thinking.
Well we saw Odell helmet spear an unsuspecting Norman, not too different. And Many still cheered him and stayed fans of the team sooo
Yeah that's a weird take.
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In comment 14680328 Steve in ATL said:
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I am not sure that I could be a fan of the team anymore. I'd have to think about it. Wonder what Brown fans are thinking.
Well we saw Odell helmet spear an unsuspecting Norman, not too different. And Many still cheered him and stayed fans of the team sooo
One guy had a helmet on, and one guy didnt. Nobody swung a helmet a Normans bare head, so they are very different. Stop making excuses.
Odell had a running start and bashed someone unsuspecting. The force couldve crippled him. Theres no place for both of these actions, and same goes for pitchers beaning hitters with 100 mph heaters intentionally
Hats off to Pouncey and DeCastro for coming to the aid of their QB and kicking the shit out of him. He got exactly what he deserved.
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In comment 14680384 Nine-Tails said:
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In comment 14680328 Steve in ATL said:
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I am not sure that I could be a fan of the team anymore. I'd have to think about it. Wonder what Brown fans are thinking.
Well we saw Odell helmet spear an unsuspecting Norman, not too different. And Many still cheered him and stayed fans of the team sooo
One guy had a helmet on, and one guy didnt. Nobody swung a helmet a Normans bare head, so they are very different. Stop making excuses.
Odell had a running start and bashed someone unsuspecting. The force couldve crippled him. Theres no place for both of these actions, and same goes for pitchers beaning hitters with 100 mph heaters intentionally
Im not going to defend Beckham, what he did was bullshit. However, with the way Norman acted both pregame and during the game, if he was unsuspecting, thats his stupidity.
Sheriff "Little Bill" Daggett: Well sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch. You just shot an unarmed man.
Bill Munny: He should have armed himself....... if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.
Oh I agree. Im certainly not condoning what Beckham did. It was terrible. But Norman was instigating from pregame. He body slammed Beckham after a play. Among other bush league nonsense. If youre going to continuously try to provoke someone youd better understand that person may have a trigger point where they go completely off the rails. As we all found out, Beckham was a bit psychotic at times. Norman found that out the hard way. Unfortunately. Norman was being a complete punk in that game.