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NGT: Myles Garrett goes crazy...suspensions inbound

allstarjim : 11/14/2019 11:51 pm
This is going to be a big story in the morning. For those of you who did not stay up late, Garrett ripped the helmet off of Mason Rudolph and swung it at him, connecting with Rudolph's head. Rudolph seems fine, but the act itself was incredibly dangerous and Garrett might have an unprecedented suspension coming his way. Possibly season ending.

And Pouncey, although I can't blame him, went nuts on Garrett with punches and kicked him in the head and neck area while he was pinned. All of this and there was :08 seconds left in the game.

And these two teams play again in two weeks.

This is the most Browns thing ever. The defense just played a great game, Mayfield was good, they ran the ball well, and physically beat a division rival they hadn't beaten in what, 5 years I think Joe Buck said? They get a huge win, the game is ending, and their best defensive player puts himself in a situation where he may not play again this season.

This is worse than Haynesworth.

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jcn  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 8:55 am : link
agreed.

The punches while Garret was still "live" and not restrained are not cool, but to me understandable.

Its the post restrained on the ground and held...and then the step around into position and then a clear kick to his head.

that's imo, suspension worthy as well as Garrett's actions. How much and all that im not claiming im close to Solomon when it comes to understanding the NFLs non Solomonic reasoning
Bullshit - you don't know what Snacks did  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 8:56 am : link
you know a reporter said he took a swipe at a teammate with a helmet. That could be anything from just as bad or worse than this to just waiving his helmet around in the air.

The lengthy thread? There's lengthy threads here on UFOs and Halloween candy, doesn't mean there's any additional verifiable information or proof in it.

This entire incident played out in high def slow mo and was replayed a thousand times over. Outrage isn't "faux" - if he hits Rudolph cleanly there we're talking criminal investigation.
Myles Garrett should get a suspension of more than 10 games.  
GMAN4LIFE : 11/15/2019 8:58 am : link
Rudolph- 1 game

honestly, the debate is comical.
The only problem I have with Pouncey  
BigBlue in Keys : 11/15/2019 9:01 am : link
is he didn't kick him enough. You swing a helmet at someone like that you give up your rights to not be knocked unconscious.

If someone smashed a bottle over someone's head at a bar I'd have no problem with people holding him down and bashing his head in until he stopped. Once you start violence rules go out the window.
RE: Josina Anderson  
giants_10_88 : 11/15/2019 9:01 am : link
In comment 14679849 colin said:
Quote:
Is intolerable.


Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.
LOL  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 9:01 am : link
the cops should arrest him. Seems like a hysterical overreaction.

"bring out Garrett"

reminds me of slapshot.

What I saw and should have been result.  
Burtman : 11/15/2019 9:02 am : link
Garrett does intentionally bring Rudolph down long after the ball is away. Flag

Rudolph does intentionally try to take Garrett's helmet off. Flag

Rudoph does intentionally kick Garrett in the nads. Flag.

Garrett does intentionally hit Rudoph in the head. Suspension.

Pouncey kicks Garrett in the head. Suspension.

Ogunjobi does hit Rudolph in the back. Flag.

What  
AcidTest : 11/15/2019 9:02 am : link
Garrett did is a criminal act, and he should therefore be charge with assault with a deadly weapon. That kind of act is exceptionally rare in sports because players have legally consented to most contact. But most is not all. At an absolute minimum, he needs to be suspended the rest of the year.
RE: Myles Garrett should get a suspension of more than 10 games.  
BillT : 11/15/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14679967 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
Rudolph- 1 game

honestly, the debate is comical.

What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?
RE: FMIC  
JayBinQueens : 11/15/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14679935 Bill2 said:
Quote:
on the street if someone is on the ground and held down...please tell me what would happen to a third person that took a step to be clear to kick them in the head ( easily a risk to cause a major injury) from behind their head on the ground???

Just that ...nothing else. Don't assume its football.

What happens in a court of law? Assault with intent to cause significant harm?

Each part of the sequence stands on its own in a court of law. Defending my friend after what happened earlier at the bar...isn't a defense. Man is responsible for each action ?

Or do we disagree?


The biggest difference is Garrett was still wearing his helmet. Not saying what Pouncey did was right or good, but it's a huge game changer
RE: RE: Josina Anderson  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14679971 giants_10_88 said:
Quote:
In comment 14679849 colin said:


Quote:


Is intolerable.




Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.


Of course it would be. Cam Newton is on the sidelines, you'd have to be a complete maniac on bath salts to assault someone on the sideline with their own helmet.
RE: RE: Myles Garrett should get a suspension of more than 10 games.  
GMAN4LIFE : 11/15/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14679978 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14679967 GMAN4LIFE said:


Quote:


Rudolph- 1 game

honestly, the debate is comical.


What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?


he didnt do much of anything. Maybe defend himself with a take down that was illegal. Sure. If anything that should be it. If it were me, i wouldnt give him anything. But if i did, 1 game is enough. Myles on the other hand should get more than 10 games.
RE: Agree that Garrett should be suspended but also  
giants_10_88 : 11/15/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14679860 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Wanted to point out that Pounceys behavior was completely unacceptable. That deserves a long suspension, too.


No. Garett tried to kill a guy. People have every right to do whetever they can to get him down and prevent further damage. This reminds of the BS argument that homeowners shouldn't defend their homes. Garett lost any right to rpotection the second he swung a helmet at Rudolph's head.

Fuck the Browns. Fuck Cleavland. Fuck Baker Mayfield. Fuck OBJ. Fuck Kitchens. Fuck Gareet. And fuck the Cleavland Indians and Cavaliers as well.
FMIC  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:08 am : link
I am rapidly losing interest in the subject, but since we rarely disagree, just a clarifying comment on the difference between us:

I understand Pouncey's "motivations" and what set him off far more than I have any sympathy for Garrett ( who imo, did not need to be a shit at the end of the game to being with).

Im not talking about the relative merit of their motivations.

One doesn't committ a motivation violation. One commits an action that is a violation.

Yes your honor, I kicked Mabel for always laughing at me in front of my friends. Yeah, Mr Smith, she should not have laughed at you. Take six months in county
RE: RE: RE: Josina Anderson  
giants_10_88 : 11/15/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14679980 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14679971 giants_10_88 said:


Quote:


In comment 14679849 colin said:


Quote:


Is intolerable.




Is she making some BS excuse that Rudolph said something racist and therefore deserved to have someone try to kill him? How is race not a factor? If Nick Bosa did this to Cam Newton the reaction would have been much harsher.



Of course it would be. Cam Newton is on the sidelines, you'd have to be a complete maniac on bath salts to assault someone on the sideline with their own helmet.


I wouldn't put it past Garrett. He is a punk and scumbag.
RE: Bullshit - you don't know what Snacks did  
WillVAB : 11/15/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14679966 jcn56 said:
Quote:
you know a reporter said he took a swipe at a teammate with a helmet. That could be anything from just as bad or worse than this to just waiving his helmet around in the air.

The lengthy thread? There's lengthy threads here on UFOs and Halloween candy, doesn't mean there's any additional verifiable information or proof in it.

This entire incident played out in high def slow mo and was replayed a thousand times over. Outrage isn't "faux" - if he hits Rudolph cleanly there we're talking criminal investigation.


It wasnít just some random beat reporter. Shurmur commented on it as well. Snacks ripped off Hernandezís helmet and swung it at him at a training camp practice. Thatís the facts.

Jay  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:09 am : link
Yes his helmet is on.

The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck
RE: Jay  
crick n NC : 11/15/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14679990 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Yes his helmet is on.

The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck


I gotta confess Bill, I didn't think of that.
Pouncey's actions,  
fkap : 11/15/2019 9:11 am : link
while over the top, hardly rise to a hazardous offence. Football players see that level of impact, or more, on pretty much every play. Garrett, being fully padded and helmeted, was not much in danger, and trying to compare it to a street fight is well off the mark.

ejection/fine/suspension worthy...sure. Being some kind of massively dangerous situation...not so much.
.  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:11 am : link
over and out.

RE: LOL  
BigBlueShock : 11/15/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14679972 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the cops should arrest him. Seems like a hysterical overreaction.

"bring out Garrett"

reminds me of slapshot.


Several former players are all over the media today saying the same damn thing. Play contrarian all you want, but itís not just a BBI reaction
RE: RE: RE: Myles Garrett should get a suspension of more than 10 games.  
BillT : 11/15/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14679982 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
In comment 14679978 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 14679967 GMAN4LIFE said:


Quote:


Rudolph- 1 game

honestly, the debate is comical.


What did Rudolph do to get suspended. Pounce or thr guy who knocked down Rudolph after the fifth but Rudolph.?



he didnt do much of anything. Maybe defend himself with a take down that was illegal. Sure. If anything that should be it. If it were me, i wouldnt give him anything. But if i did, 1 game is enough. Myles on the other hand should get more than 10 games.

I donít see anything from Rudolph that is wrong. I donít see him kicking Garrett or trying to get his helmet off. I doubt even a fine for him. Garrett, gone for a while.
Both of those players could easily have had much worse outcomes  
jcn56 : 11/15/2019 9:13 am : link
If Garrett lands cleanly he'd have half knocked Rudolph's head off his body.

If Pouncey kicked a bit harder he could have snapped his neck.

The punches I don't care so much about because let's be honest - punches are practically routine, and you've never really heard of anyone getting seriously injured by a punch in a football game.
RE: Jay  
JayBinQueens : 11/15/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14679990 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Yes his helmet is on.

The danger of kicking someone on the ground in the protected or unprotected head... is to their neck


Definitely a fair point. I don't think that'll change enough peoples views though based on the optics

sometimes  
Matt in SGS : 11/15/2019 9:14 am : link
there is a clear line of right and wrong. It is that simple. It's not very hard. You swing a helmet a guy not wearing one in a football scrum, you should be suspended for the rest of the season.

I feel like life is imitating art too much. It reminds me of the point -- counter-point skit in the movie Airplane! when they were "arguing" about the fate of the plane that was in the air.

And the counterpoint was so beautiful "they bought their tickets...they knew this could happen"



There isn't another side here. You want to talk about suspending Pouncey, but seeing anyone try to justify Garrett in any way really goes on my "ignore" list.
.  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:19 am : link
Physiology:

When you are upright, the ability to brace your neck is significantly different ( especially if a blow comes from the front or slightly to the side) then when prone and the hit is from behind.

Before seatbelts and headrests and modern bumpers, necks snapped from rear collisions because the head is moving in whatever direction with no muscular tension of the neck, shoulders or chest to hold back its velocity.
RE: .  
crick n NC : 11/15/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14680006 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Physiology:

When you are upright, the ability to brace your neck is significantly different ( especially if a blow comes from the front or slightly to the side) then when prone and the hit is from behind.

Before seatbelts and headrests and modern bumpers, necks snapped from rear collisions because the head is moving in whatever direction with no muscular tension of the neck, shoulders or chest to hold back its velocity.


👍
of course  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:23 am : link
the chances of Pouncey knowing that are close to nil. Hence why there are rules and being out of control leads to a lot of risk of bad unintended consequences.

Every person over four knows you can hurt someone badly by swinging a hard object like a helmet at someone else's unprotected head.

Takes a lot of out of control to override a basic biological understanding from early childhood
That was horrible  
Steve in ATL : 11/15/2019 9:24 am : link
Garret should be suspended this year and next. Criminal prosecution should be brought against him.
How come this happens to the Steelers every year?  
chuckydee9 : 11/15/2019 9:25 am : link
Their players get in these dirty fights with opponents who want to take their heads off.. They must be playing dirty.. few years ago it was in the Denver game where their center barreled into a safety after the play was dead and we found out the Broncos safety was sent to IR.. Then all the fights with the Bengals.. now the Browns.. I am sure I am missing some in the middle as well.. but things do get ferocious and steelers seem to get in these situation more than others..
im sorry im posting so much on this  
Bill2 : 11/15/2019 9:34 am : link
Notice that by being out of control-both Garrett and Pouncey have given control to Rudolph and Garret respectively to decide wether to press charges. ( making no comment on if charges would stick in front of a jury you don't know)

I don't know about you, but im not into giving other people control or being able to bring risk into my life.

The way the law can work is that someday, somewhere, some up for re-election DA is going to wade in on behalf of his outraged voters.

stupid follows stupid
Garrett should get 6 games (rest of the season)  
jeff57 : 11/15/2019 9:43 am : link
Pouncey 3
Garrett should be arrested for assault  
Jimmy Googs : 11/15/2019 9:43 am : link
.
In other news...  
90.Cal : 11/15/2019 9:44 am : link
Joe Schobert is a FA this offseason... Any takers? He played a hell of a game last night..
Garrett should be banned for life  
JerryNicklebag : 11/15/2019 9:53 am : link
And charged with assault.

No place for this in the NFL or any league for that matter.
I'd give Garrett a full season's worth of suspension  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2019 9:53 am : link
Sixteen games, starting now, carrying through the playoffs, with the remainder enforced next season.

Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.
Howís Garrett different than Burfict?  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/15/2019 9:55 am : link
I donít care if he reads poetry off the field, lack of impulse control is lack of impulse control. His track record goes beyond that, heís demonstrated a malicious nature.

I donít think itís assault, but NFL needs to send a message, not only to Garrett, but also the public.
I think Garrett should get 16 games.  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/15/2019 9:58 am : link
One full season, sprawled out over two.
Greg beat me to it.  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/15/2019 9:58 am : link
.
Personally I think Garrett should get a lifetime suspension  
Mike in ramapo college : 11/15/2019 9:58 am : link
Punishments for this type of behavior should be so egregious and over the top so that it can dictate future behavior around the league (even if this is a fringe case of unprofessionalism).

Realistically he should get remainder of this year and all of next year. Pouncey should get 1 game.
RE: RE: Rudolph isnít innocent here  
Gregorio : 11/15/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14679912 RC in MD said:
Quote:

He could have walked away? Victim blaming much?


No, Itís not a victim blaming. Iím looking at the facts as shown on video, and it shows Rudolph initially grabbing Garrettís helmet, to the point where it nearly comes off his head. That is certainly what triggered Garrett. And yes, a grown adult with control of his emotions can choose to walk away.

Iím not excusing Garrett though.
Don't be shocked  
JohnF : 11/15/2019 10:07 am : link
if suspensions are much less than expected. Anything the NFL does will be appealed by the NFLPA. I think the Browns are more likely to do something first.

FMIC brought up a great point, too. There had to be a LOT of bad blood going on, the game was over at that point, and there was no reason to go full out pass rush with 8 or so seconds to go.

The real villain here is Freddie Kitchens, who did not have control of the team (or intentionally was having his players injure the opposition). There were several direct helmet shots to the head by the Browns, and I'm sure Mason was pissed off (not to excuse his behavior). Kitchens needed to get control no later than halftime, but the cheap shots just kept getting worst.

I kept thinking Greg Williams was the DC...if not, that's the type of game Williams would encourage as a DC. And the Browns have been that type of team all season.
So now Kitchens and Pouncey  
mittenedman : 11/15/2019 10:09 am : link
are the main offenders here - and not Garrett.

Gotta love the USA.
swinging the helmet  
bc4life : 11/15/2019 10:13 am : link
is the thing that separates it form the typical nfl fight-ejection.

at a minimum - done for the rest of the season, I'm thinking more. could have fractured rudolph's skull

pouncey - 2 games seems about right
pouncey  
bc4life : 11/15/2019 10:14 am : link
4 games at the most, and I think that's a bit much.
RE: I'd give Garrett a full season's worth of suspension  
giants#1 : 11/15/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14680070 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Sixteen games, starting now, carrying through the playoffs, with the remainder enforced next season.

Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.


I was going to say 8 for Garrett, but 16 is defensible too.

I'd give Pouncey 4 games, punching/kicking a guy like that needs to be punished severely, even if Garrett "deserved" it.

Finally, I'd give Rudolph 1 game for his actions and the Browns defender (too lazy to look up the spelling) who laid Rudolph out after Garrett was taken down a 1 game suspension.

Both teams and/or head coaches should be fined as well.
Pouncey should get 0 games  
Giants in 07 : 11/15/2019 10:15 am : link
I think everybody saying otherwise is crazy
Giants in 07  
bc4life : 11/15/2019 10:16 am : link
initial reaction was understandable - then it was over and he continued while refs were trying to gain control. can't have that
RE: I'd give Garrett a full season's worth of suspension  
Eman11 : 11/15/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14680070 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Sixteen games, starting now, carrying through the playoffs, with the remainder enforced next season.

Pouncey deserves a couple of games, too.


Yeah I agree with you but at the very least it needs to be ten games for Garrett.

I could also see Pouncey only getting one game but two seems right because it went beyond throwing punches when he started kicking at Garrett.
Pouncey  
Carl in CT : 11/15/2019 10:17 am : link
Did what he had to do!! Period! Suspension yup maybe deserves a game. Ask him if he would do it again if a player attacks his QB? Yup you defend your brother at ALL costs. My opinion G gets the season and Pouncey and the other Clev player a game apiece.
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