Not sure if you guys saw the articles on Mookie Betts to Mets ideas...note, this is just musings, not rumors. If you haven't, here is the David Adler piece on MLB.com:
https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-should-trade-for-mookie-betts-or-francisco-lindor
And here is the SNY piece:
https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/mlb-execs-on-3-potential-ways-mets-could-trade-for-mookie-betts/311760976
I don't see this as happening, although this would be a huge add for the Mets. Betts is 1 year away from free agency, and will be paid $27.7 million next season, and will take an enormous amount of money to be resigned. I don't think the Wilpons will pony up the cash to lock him up, so I don't think it would make sense to trade significant pieces for a 1 year rental.
But hot damn, would he be a tremendous add to this lineup if BVW was indeed afforded the opportunity to bring Betts to Queens. Assuming an extension could be worked for Betts, what would you give for him?
I don't think you part with Thor, personally, because the Mets are not going to pay Wheeler AND Betts, and probably not even just Wheeler. You could move Lugo to the rotation but you're still thin.
Would Dom Smith, Nimmo, and David Peterson do it? If so, I'm signing up for that.
And while we're at it, this seems to be an obvious situation where BVW is going to make a significant trade this offseason, with Lowrie, Smith, J.D. Davis, McNeil, Nimmo, and Conforto (dare I include Cespedes?) all involved in positional logjams.
That said, the Mets needed ALL of their depth last season and were still somewhat short in parts of the year. Would you rather just roll with the guys they have now and run it back?
I'd rather do that than re-arrange deck chairs or trade for bullpen, being that it's so volatile year-to-year.
And how big of a problem is this, really? Can Nimmo be counted on as the everyday CF?
The other idea would be to make Rosario a CF. He has the athleticism for it, if he could really learn the position, with Gimenez presumably close to the Majors.
And prediction time...will the Mets put Lugo in the rotation? I am hoping so. He considers himself a starter, and I think he should be rewarded for his excellence last year. They could replace him with Pomeranz or one of the many other options on the market.
Make it a blockbuster
Nimmo. Betts. Confirto in outfield
Davis and Alonso at corners
Rosario McNeil up the middle
I didn’t know he had a no trade
OF nor offense is really an issue at the moment.
For Nimmo, Dom, and Peterson? Sure why not. But that's probably half the price at best.
I remember when the trend was for the Nats to trade Strasburg when he got healthy and had a good season. Move him now, blah blah, blah. You keep your good young pitchers.
Done.
wait you'd consider trading a 2 cost controlled future all stars for 1 year of Betts? no no noooo
And we are probably only barely over the LT.
And we are probably only barely over the LT.
Keuchel is on the way down. Velocity decline is a huge red flag on him.
Ownership should not be cheap for once and retain Wheeler.
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Keuchel, Betances, Hamilton, Castro offseason.
And we are probably only barely over the LT.
Keuchel is on the way down. Velocity decline is a huge red flag on him.
Ownership should not be cheap for once and retain Wheeler.
Im not signing Keuchel as some cog for the future. I’m signing him to be the 4th or 5th starter for a year or two. And when was Keuchel ever a flame thrower? He hasn’t really thrown hard in a long time and he was fine for the Braves down the stretch this past year.
Wheeler is a pipe dream. He’s going to get 100 million plus as he should and everybody wants him. Mets already acquired Stroman knowing Wheeler was likely a goner. We are almost at the LT and although we might go over a little we aren’t going to go nuts.
But every year a player gets fetishized. This year it’s Mookie Betts. Willie Mays is a Hack compared to the great Mookie Betts— that’s the impression you get from reading the shit out there
Betts is a good player. I would rather have McNeil
You sound foolish by claiming otherwise.
I agree the money is different and as Mets fans unfortunately that has to be a consideration but you didn't say "because of the money McNeil is a better fit..."
If I were to trade for Betts I would ideally not include McNeil, but to claim you'd rather have McNeil because his OPS for one year was higher isn't a good take.
Betts is also a gold glove OFer.
It's not a fetish, Betts is a perennial MVP candidate legit 5-tool player. He should be a target of any team who wants to contend (I wouldn't trade for him though without a LT extension)
For Betts.
You are just looking for something to start an argument about
I said *ideally* the Mets wouldn't.
McNeil can be the 3B or 2B going forward.
Trading him creates another hole to fill.
If you include an OFer (as the "major leaguer" in the trade) it makes more sense.
Not looking to argue about anything. I think it's ludicrous to say you would rather have McNeil than Mookie Betts. Not just a borderline opinion, a crazy opinion.
Just like you state your opinion, I stated mine and you are free to agree or disagree - it's not personal and not about wanting to argue.
No expectation, but I hope he can be.
He's one season away from a 5 fWAR season with 157 games played.
There's no need to have huge expectations IMO. He's slated for the bench and is a nice bench piece. If injuries hit, he might come in handy... If not... he'll probably rot. Definitely not a bad thing either way.
Yes, Betts with 5 years of control and cheap during all of that is a better player than McNeil with 5 years of control and cheap if it were somehow apples to apples (4.6 fWAR VS 6.6 fWAR).
But its not apples to apples.
McNeil is an all star and has now raked in MLB since the moment he arrived a year and a half ago.
Cheap control is real and McNeil simply presents more value in his circumstance than Betts does right now.
I also think McNeil's wins above replacement is set to go up with him moving back to the IF permanently (6 WAR pace in 2018 with McNeil in the IF VS OF)
@Jacob_Resnick
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4m
Best tools in the #Mets system via @MLBPipeline
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Is that revamped minor league system going to get approved?
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like The Rumble Ponies and Kingsport Mets cease to exist.
Is that revamped minor league system going to get approved?
It looks to be the case. The Rumbleponies owner said he's been alerted they are one of the teams.
"You’d have to ask Major League Baseball about their concept of betraying the people of Binghamton, the Senator (Fred Akshar) as well as the Mayor (Rich David) and the community who has been so supportive of the team, why they would even think that would be acceptable? And on a lot of levels it’s disrespectful to anybody because if you read their criteria, the stadium’s compliant, short travel schedule, proximity to the Triple-A and major league clubs, there’s not a lot for them to base their position on really."
don't bother, while I obviously agree with you, knowing the people who don't, it will only result in a lengthy pointless debate.
Cano at 2B is still infuriating in that area. I pray there's a way they can swap him out somehow. I wonder if Boston is desperate enough to dump money that they'd take him on. Price and JBJ for Cano type of thing (not sure who would have to add some young players to make that worthwhile for the other side).
wait you'd consider trading a 2 cost controlled future all stars for 1 year of Betts? no no noooo
Absolutely not for one year of Betts, it would have to be conditional on signing him long-term.
Cano at 2B is still infuriating in that area. I pray there's a way they can swap him out somehow. I wonder if Boston is desperate enough to dump money that they'd take him on. Price and JBJ for Cano type of thing (not sure who would have to add some young players to make that worthwhile for the other side).
I've heard he is in fact available but the Mets aren't going to pay "anyone" 300-400 million so it's hard to see them involved.
If Boston added JBJ that's another need potentially filled and even more money saved off this year's payroll for Boston. Not sure if I'd prefer that for the Mets but that would depend on our "budget parameters" and the other options available for CF.
The net increase adding both for the Mets payroll would be somewhere between $15-20m this year and somewhere between 5-10m each of the next 2 years, but then they also get 1 less year of Cano while backfilling Wheeler (though my first choice would still be to resign him if at all possible - even if it means trading Stroman).
Another move that would make sense would be swapping Dom Smith for 1 of Toronto's young catchers. Both have been good defensively, so hopefully you can ease in a good young catcher while splitting time with Ramos this year since I don't think his contract will be easy to dump.
There would certainly still be some holes to fill after those 2 moves, namely pitching depth, but they'd be on a much more sound footing to do so having improved the defense up the middle substantially and gotten rid of Cano's dead weight. Lowrie and JDFD could compete for time at 3B, though I'd prefer JDFD in LF every day. Wouldn't even mind bringing back Frazier on a cheap 1 year deal for depth.
I doubt that happens, but an AL team is definitely more of a fit with the DH.
And all this talk of the Red Sox and salary dump makes me nervous since that's the exact same language used with the Mariners this time last year and it wound up costing Kelenic and Dunn (with a "closer" thrown in by the M's of course).
The bigger mistake than swapping Bruce's money for Cano's, was trading Kelenic for Diaz. They absolutely cannot make a talent evaluation mistake like that again.
They'd also do well to wise up on the financial equity of taking on so much of Cano's money as well. That was a horrible miscalculation. A bad contract swap with Price would be much more even.
Unfathomable to think anyone ignored the risk of taking on $100m for a 36 year old 2b without a DH position, let alone a highly paid league exec who used to be his agent.
On the plus side, supposedly they did try to trade him at the deadline. So even though execs laughed in their faces as they should have during the trade talks with Seattle, I guess that's progress?
The Red Sox goal is to shed salary.
Cano is a long-term contract unlike Bruce and Swarzak.
So unless the Mets are taking back Price and his $30M+ the next three years or even DH JD Maetinez and his $20M the next 3 years (AAV), to unload Cano it makes zero sense for the Red Sox to take Cano's as-is contract.
The Mets acquiring Betts or even JBJ makes sense for the Mets and a little bit for the Sox (depending who goes the other way), but i don't see you fitting Cano into a trade with Boston, who wants to shed salary, without taking back Price and/or JDM.
I think Cano for Price makes some sense for both sides.
@JonHeyman
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1h
Joey Cora has emerged as candidate for Mets bench coach. Has ties to Omar Minaya and Carlos Beltran. Cora, Pirates 3B coach last year and interviewee for their managing job, is thought to be strong candidate for Mets. Other known candidates: Fredi Gonzalez, Jerry Narron.
I just think Cano is the biggest problem with the D up the middle and it's only going to get worse. The team took off without him last year and we shouldn't lose sight of that because a major reason for the run was when the defense improved. At the time there was some stat that the Mets converted the lowest % of ground balls into outs in the first half of the year and then went up to #1 during the good run. Even Panik (-3 drs) was a noticeable improvement. Lost in the comps to the Nats, they were 90 runs better than us by DRS.
Ramos is a big problem too, but he's only got 1 year left and he's so much better than any other hitting catcher they can get other than Grandal. So my preference would be to trade Dom Smith for a good young defensive catcher like 1 of the guys on Toronto.
In CF upgrading Nimmo won't be easy but they should try. Even if it's another Keon Broxton type gamble - though ideally it would be someone better than Lagares, not worse. Or they can just bring him back on a 1 year deal.
How does that make sense for the Red Sox trying to shed salary?
that is my point.
How does that make sense for the Red Sox trying to shed salary?
that is my point.
It doesn't make any sense for the Red Sox to do this. Pitching is one of their biggest weaknesses. Price's contract is underwater, but he's still a lot better than their next option. This exchange doesn't really free up any financial flexibility for then, and gives them another DH when they already have one of the most expensive DHs in baseball.
I wish that it wasn't the case, but we're stuck with Cano.
How does that make sense for the Red Sox trying to shed salary?
that is my point.
Cano's AAV is lower, which helps them get under the luxury tax threshold each of the next 3 years.
This past year was their 2nd year in a row being over the threshold which forced them to pay $13m in penalties (they were about $35m over the lux tax). The penalties only increase the more above the threshold they go, and the more consecutive years they are over.
I am not an expert on their cap situation, but if the Mets passed along the money they are receiving from Seattle the Red Sox would save $12m per year each of the next 3 years in return for taking on 1 extra year that totals $20m.
Again, by no means an expert on their situation, or even the luxury tax since that's never a factor for our team, but I think there would be a definitive benefit to them saving $12m in AAV salary his year. And if we took back JBJ too that'd be another big chunk.
John Henry wants Boston Red Sox to stay under $208 million CBT in 2020 after payroll soared to near $240M in 2019 - ( New Window )
not by taking back Cano, who then becomes their immovable problem for longer term and just $5M per year less.
There aren't going to be very many teams lining up to take on that kind of $, especially in the form of bad contracts. If the Red Sox want to lower their luxury tax right now and dump bad contracts, they are almost going to have to take on a contract that's longer than price's and similarly bad, of which there probably aren't too many options.
There aren't going to be very many teams lining up to take on that kind of $, especially in the form of bad contracts. If the Red Sox want to lower their luxury tax right now and dump bad contracts, they are almost going to have to take on a contract that's longer than price's and similarly bad, of which there probably aren't too many options.
You assume the Mets would pass along the cash they got from the M's toward Cano's salary for including such significant prospects.
That would take a bad Cano trade and make it even worse for the Mets.
Kelenic, Dunn, Bautista, Bruce, Swarzak, the salary the M's kicked in for Cano, and Cano, for a breaking down Price and ineffective Diaz?
It isn't what IMO the Red Sox are looking for and I don't think it helps the Mets enough.
"The team’s most immediate issue is replacing Zack Wheeler in the rotation. The front four remains solid — at least until Stroman joins Wheeler in free agency after 2020 — but the team’s in-house options remain underwhelming. The team is up against the luxury tax threshold, but there’s little reason not to trample on it. Much of the team’s luxury tax figure consists of expenses that exist on paper only; the Mets are charged for the injured Wright and Céspedes but get millions of dollars back from insurance. Our RosterResource has the Mets currently $11 million or so under the threshold. The team could literally go $30 million over the $208 million line and have the penalties easily paid for — and then some — by the injury dollars. While I don’t think they actually will, I believe they should, while the rest of the core is intact. And $42 million will come off the luxury tax number in 2021 just from Céspedes and Wright, making it realistic that they could drop back under the threshold in future years.
As of now, ZiPS projects the Mets as an 86-win team in 2020. An 86-win team ought to be highly motivated to invest in top free agents."
Like I said, I'm nowhere close to an expert on how motivated the Red Sox would be to save the amounts mentioned above (up to $23m this year alone), but I think replacing Wheeler with Price, adding an interesting CF option in JBJ, and most importantly dumping Robinson Cano for the next 4 years is worth that $23m spend in the present for the Mets.
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is a top 5 player in all of baseball and by fWAR he has an argument for #2. The list of players I would prefer over him likely goes.. Trout, Soto, Acuna...
don't bother, while I obviously agree with you, knowing the people who don't, it will only result in a lengthy pointless debate.
Nothing I said would have disagreed with any of that.
Definitely lends more credence to Roc Nation claiming he's planning on a big comeback than the "fan base" taking a throwaway comment by BVW about not "knowing when Cespedes will be ready" and taking that to mean he might not play at all for some off reason... We are only in November. My guess is Cespedes is in ST ready to go even if he is injury prone and needs to be babied going forward.
Link - ( New Window )
Mets Payroll - ( New Window )
Nice find - that layout is very clean. Looking at that payroll I find it really hard to believe they have the $ for a Grandal or Wheeler.
Btw have they hired a bench coach or pitching coach yet?