With all the discussion about removing Gettleman and Shurmur.
I am just not sure, that a complete new regime will happen with no vested interest in Daniel Jones. What stops them from drafting BPA....a QB. I just do not see this happening.
So Dave Gettleman is safe. To be honest, I am not even sure if he deserve being fired. I know this team is not playing as if its more talented...but I believe this team is more talented. When he was hired, I felt he needed 3 years....so I am not banging the drum for his removal, yet.
Can not say the same for Shurmur. I just do not think he knows how to win in the NFL. Nice guy, an adult, but as far as I am concern....a loser. Can he learn how to win in the NFL? Maybe...but that seems impossible as the HC.
But will great coaches go to a lousy team? Seems like a chicken and egg story. Bill won't....pipe dream fellas. None of the dynasty colleges will come.
I say the only catagory....is the hot young up-start....too good to care, too young to know better....this would be the list.....not DG ideal list
Now, will that happen? One could argue that the entire offense is not broken....WRs, TEs and QB are all playing decently....the OL and Running game have disapointed. A rookie QB usually gives a coach an extra life.
One could argue keeping Shurmur one more year....giving both the original 3 year minimum and just remove the coaches with the under preforming units? ( not sure, I believe this strategy....they did it and just delayed the inevitable, but I can see it happening). I do agree a more talented team would attract better, more experienced coaches.
I truly believed this OL finally had gotten fixed with the starting 5. I was mistaken. But How can this OL be this horrible. Maybe slightly better against the pass, putrid against the run.....and yes, Barkley has fault in this eventhough I think something is wrong with him.
We can argue about the L.Williams trade....but my gut told me....it was done to give Bettcher one more chance.
So the balance of year purpose will determine coaches livelihood, which young player can become starting material and the all important draft spot. ( God, I hate being here so freaking early....ughhhh).
I always end with team needs...
I believe with William's and Lawrence(w/ NFL off-season) sprinkled with the "try hard" edges (Golden, Carter, X-men)....
the missing piece is the Stud Edge!
If the Giants can find that difference maker at Edge this off season...the Giants will finally have a unit that finally puts fear in OC.
And back to the drawing board for the OL.
How the hell did Dallas do it in 1st attempt? Started with the anchor LT. Followed by an anchor at center....thought they were idiots drafting a center in 1st, boy was I mistaken.
So, the Giants need to find 2 of the hardest positions to fill.....Stud Edge and LT. This off season. Good luck.
A center and RT are also needed to lesser degree.
I have been harping for a true centerfielder FS, a monster sideline to sideline MLB ( I really like what I saw from Connerly..what a shame). I know many are calling for a true #1 WR....
The off season wish list can get out of control.
So hopefully, some solutions can be found already on roster.
What a mess?
The most challenging aspect will be finding the right HC and staff to pull it all together.
So you clean out Bethea and Thomas(who should be a ST and emergency backup), go with Love and add a legit rangy playmaker in the offseason. Let Love and the new add fight for the position.
I agree with your roster assessment. This was always going to take three years to sort out the roster. One serious concern is how bad the Solder signing(DG's one big ticket FA) is going. That's left us still needing three OL upgrades. Two OT's and an OC. We can probably work with a new LT and OC while moving Solder to the right side. His contract isn't really cuttable until 2021.
Bingo. To suggest that they should stick with Gettleman because a new GM would automatically dump Jones is either extremely lazy or sleep deprived.
I'd go a step farther and question anyone ..anyone suggesting that Love is the answer at free safety is sounding a lot like the annual typical wishful thinking case, in this case, that somebody will use that idea to justify using that high pick at wr instead of free safety.
And do it goes. Not good
Either our db coaches are lacking (very possible ) or Love will be a nifty journeyman db generalist, useful, but never the answer at free safety. Or both. Likely .
The idea of 'use a slow cornerback as a free safety' isn't a good one.
Draft an actual deep pass defending safety with the #s, experience, fast wheels all that savvy and see our prospects change quickly
The most challenging aspect will be finding the right HC and staff to pull it all together.
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The most challenging aspect will be finding the right HC and staff to pull it all together.
Really? We're that close.
Basically, what you are saying here is that you see enough with Gettleman to trust him spending more money and continuing to manipulate this roster.
I find that absolutely bizarre.
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A good 2020 off-season and they can have a playoff caliber roster. The Giants will have a ton of money to spend and good players will be available at positions of need. They will most likely have two draft picks in the top 35. I expect the front 7 to be set and the OL to be set (or close to it) come 2020.
The most challenging aspect will be finding the right HC and staff to pull it all together.
Really? We're that close.
Basically, what you are saying here is that you see enough with Gettleman to trust him spending more money and continuing to manipulate this roster.
I find that absolutely bizarre.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. He hasn’t been perfect but I like a lot of what he’s done with the roster. He deserves another year to get it right.
DG has turned the roster over, got us much younger, and created huge cap space. He has missed on some free agents, but the drafts have been promising. I believe he stays for the foreseeable future.
Agree. The best thing to do is stay the course and see where we are after next year once the off season ends and we have another draft under our belt. By
the end of next year we should have a very good read on the trajectory and if it's not where it needs to be then you make the change.
The Giants need to just on defense:
1) upgrade/re-value Jenkins
2) replace Bethea
3) replace Mayo
4) re-sign or replace Golden
5) re-sign or replace Williams
6) upgrade/re-value Ogletree
The Giants have some young players that hopefully make that like Love and Beal who hopefully slot in next year. They will also spend somewhere near 30M on Golden and Williams.
The Giants need to just on defense:
1) upgrade/re-value Jenkins
2) replace Bethea
3) replace Mayo
4) re-sign or replace Golden
5) re-sign or replace Williams
6) upgrade/re-value Ogletree
The Giants have some young players that hopefully make that like Love and Beal who hopefully slot in next year. They will also spend somewhere near 30M on Golden and Williams.
The Giants can put together a quality defense just by getting the front 7 right. No one loved the 49ers secondary last year.
Golden and/or Dupree plus a quality MLB to pair with Connelly and the defense is in solid shape. Add Chase Young and it’s a defense to get excited about. The rest of the needs can be filled with mid/late rounders and bargain signings.
The defense doesn’t need quality at every spot. They need a front 7 that can stop the run and rush the passer. That can be accomplished with what’s likely to be available in FA and the draft.
I am trying to remain positive about the roster. There a few positions that are so bad that they effect the entire team. Free safety is a huge need especially if Bettcher is retained. We play a ton of cover 1 and the FS position needs to line everyone up and play CF. Justin Simmons would be a main target for me.
Edge Rusher is another huge need. A dominant pass rusher is so important to any defense. We seem to have a good group of interior DL, OLB/ER needs a serious upgrade.
Inside Linebacker. Connelly looks like a player but I think Ogletree is just not playing well. I can see a draft pick like Isaiah Simmons or Dylan Moses being a good fit if NYG decides to trade down. Shaq Thompson from Carolina would be a good fit as well.
Cut Ogletree, Bethea, maybe Jenkins.
On offense, I would start with the Center position. We need a huge upgrade here. It all starts with a smart center and the line calls. Second level blocking needs to improve as well as pass blocking.
OT is obvious. I am hoping a 2nd pick can be used here. Not sure there is a free agent worth signing.
Tight End. I would love a good 2 way TE. It makes a difference in the run and pass game, especially goalljne and short yardage situation. Not sure Ellison and Engram are good enough.
Between free agency and the draft, you need to find 6 players. ER, ILB and FS on defense. C, OT and TE on offense. WR should also be looked at but with Tate, Slayton and hopefully a healthy Shepard, they can find a B level free agent to add to the group.
It is possible to get these players. It might even be feasible to have these pieces change to direction of the team.
We can't get off the field on third down. We need a quality safety and a quality inside LB on defense. Carter X-man and Golden can handle the edge for a year.
Reason 2 - Turnovers and sacks
Improve OL. LT and Center are critical. Tate Slayton and the others can hold down WR for another year.
Reason 3 - Coaching
Don't change Head Coach unless someone "great" is available this year. A new OL coach and DL coach could help. These are the position coaches that usually provide the energy. Possibly change the DC.
Other - The college scouting group seems to be doing well. The Pro scouting group - not so much. It will be important to improve this as we enter into this year's free-agent period with $$ to spend.
This roster is not far off? We have about as bad a roster as there is in the game. We have a lot of money for free agency but a GM who has not demonstrated he can pick well. As far as draft success, few of his picks are playing well this year and that includes guys who played well last year like Hernandez and Hill. Plus, what makes anybody think that Love & Beal will be any good. Right now,we’re hoping but that’s all it is.
And the coaching is uninspiring. I dont see what value they bring except the STs coach. I think we’re going in the wrong direction
This roster is not far off? We have about as bad a roster as there is in the game. We have a lot of money for free agency but a GM who has not demonstrated he can pick well. As far as draft success, few of his picks are playing well this year and that includes guys who played well last year like Hernandez and Hill. Plus, what makes anybody think that Love & Beal will be any good. Right now,we’re hoping but that’s all it is.
And the coaching is uninspiring. I dont see what value they bring except the STs coach. I think we’re going in the wrong direction
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The Giants two best pass rushers right now are free agents. On defense the only thing they are even average at is rushing the passer. They are terrible at virtually everything else.
The Giants need to just on defense:
1) upgrade/re-value Jenkins
2) replace Bethea
3) replace Mayo
4) re-sign or replace Golden
5) re-sign or replace Williams
6) upgrade/re-value Ogletree
The Giants have some young players that hopefully make that like Love and Beal who hopefully slot in next year. They will also spend somewhere near 30M on Golden and Williams.
The Giants can put together a quality defense just by getting the front 7 right. No one loved the 49ers secondary last year.
Golden and/or Dupree plus a quality MLB to pair with Connelly and the defense is in solid shape. Add Chase Young and it’s a defense to get excited about. The rest of the needs can be filled with mid/late rounders and bargain signings.
The defense doesn’t need quality at every spot. They need a front 7 that can stop the run and rush the passer. That can be accomplished with what’s likely to be available in FA and the draft.
Although they can certainly improve, the Giants aren't bad rushing the passer.
Stopping the run more effectively should be equally as important to improving pass coverage.
The Giants literally have the worst defense in the NFL, and a top 5 bad pass defense, all the while being a middle of the pack pass rush.
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In comment 14680947 christian said:
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The Giants two best pass rushers right now are free agents. On defense the only thing they are even average at is rushing the passer. They are terrible at virtually everything else.
The Giants need to just on defense:
1) upgrade/re-value Jenkins
2) replace Bethea
3) replace Mayo
4) re-sign or replace Golden
5) re-sign or replace Williams
6) upgrade/re-value Ogletree
The Giants have some young players that hopefully make that like Love and Beal who hopefully slot in next year. They will also spend somewhere near 30M on Golden and Williams.
The Giants can put together a quality defense just by getting the front 7 right. No one loved the 49ers secondary last year.
Golden and/or Dupree plus a quality MLB to pair with Connelly and the defense is in solid shape. Add Chase Young and it’s a defense to get excited about. The rest of the needs can be filled with mid/late rounders and bargain signings.
The defense doesn’t need quality at every spot. They need a front 7 that can stop the run and rush the passer. That can be accomplished with what’s likely to be available in FA and the draft.
Although they can certainly improve, the Giants aren't bad rushing the passer.
Stopping the run more effectively should be equally as important to improving pass coverage.
The Giants literally have the worst defense in the NFL, and a top 5 bad pass defense, all the while being a middle of the pack pass rush.
There’s a big difference between being a middle of the pack pass rushing D and near the top of the league. Adding an elite ER to what they already have could get them there.
Adding a quality MLB solves the run D issue. The DL is getting good push in the run game as is, they just don’t have any quality LBs to shoot gaps or shed blocks and make plays. A quality LB to pair with Connelly and they’re fine.
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1. WR:Weren’t supposed to have WR as a need but Sheppard is unreliable...an injury waiting to happen
2. LT: don’t know what to do with Solder though
3. EDGE: we all know this
4. Free safety: maybe JULIAN LOVE can surprise us and be that man. We shall see these next 6 games
5. RT: maybe NICK GATES can be that man. Goodbye Remmers
6. Center: I’m so bummed that Halpio, Pulley, or Brown can’t rise up
7. TE: I’m afraid to say, Evan is much like Sheppard, a china doll. Can’t count on him.
8. LB: hopefully Connelly comes back healthy. Carter has to keep improving; Ogletree? Bucannon? Golden ?
As you can see, we still have many concerns, so all this talk about firing people is masking what the real problem is....injuries and disappointing players are plaguing us.
Aren't disappointing players directly attributable to a weak GM and coaching staff?
Good question Vinnie...not really one answer as you suggested.
There are Disappointing players because.....
1. Over evaluation (GM and player personal scouts)
2. Coaching not top notch (Coaches)
3. Players don’t want to put out 100% (Players)