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Good read regarding Gettlemanís silence-

Sean : 11/16/2019 8:58 am
Jerry Reese always held a bye week presser, even when things were very bleak here. Gettleman has not addressed the media at all, the team is 2-8. Itís a very bad look in my opinion.

Quote:
George Young, who should be in the NFL Hall of Fame, answered every message. Ernie Accorsi was cut from the same cloth. Even when social media was emerging Jerry Reese always had a bye-week session with the media, even in the darkest of times.

Link - ( New Window )
as long as he doesnt  
Dankbeerman : 11/16/2019 9:02 am : link
come in to brag when things are good Im perfectly fine with him doing things his own way. The bunch of crap that comes from a press confrence would mean nothing anyway.
What a bunch of nonsense  
rnargi : 11/16/2019 9:02 am : link
...he doesn't speak during the season. He never has.
I always felt like the HC  
Sneakers O'toole : 11/16/2019 9:04 am : link
should be the only voice for the team in season. Ownership and front office shouldn't speak to the media in season.

Maybe he is just busy negotiating  
Jimmy Googs : 11/16/2019 9:04 am : link
away our remaining draft picks for other team's free agents...
No, it isn't a good read  
Gman11 : 11/16/2019 9:04 am : link
It's a bunch of shit stirring garbage. He never has addressed the media during the bye week, but it's a terrible thing now because he's doing what he has always done. Get out of here with that shit.
Not a Gettleman fan but  
ron mexico : 11/16/2019 9:20 am : link
Donít care that he doesnít speak during the bye.

Doubt he would say anything of note if he did, JR never really revealed anything useful when he did it.
I don't want DG to say anything... or Mara  
EricJ : 11/16/2019 9:25 am : link
What are they going to say? We are disappointed? That goes without saying.

Reports are upset he is not saying anything because they have nothing more to write about.

Nothing good comes from making a statement at this point. Our record is our statement.

If he opens his mouth, people will be analyzing not only every word but the inflection in his voice just to come away with some indication about the future.

How will any of this help the team? It doesn't, and only serve to feed the nonsense that is the media.
He spoke to the media when they made the trade for Williams  
Milton : 11/16/2019 9:30 am : link
Whether it's a draft pick, a free agent signing, or a trade, he faces the media to explain it. But it's the coaches job to explain wins and losses.
p.s.--The media wants him to speak so that they can bash whatever he says. That's how they get clicks. There's only so much blood they can suck out of Gettleman from a distance.
Who cares?  
HomerJones45 : 11/16/2019 9:30 am : link
Gettleman has also never presided over a 2-8 team that is one of the worst in the NFL. Maybe it's time for ol' Dave to do things a little differently.

That said, who cares. As others have pointed out, little would come from such an effort anyway.
Press needs to spin a story during the bye week  
Steve in ATL : 11/16/2019 9:37 am : link
.


You beat me to this so i deleted my thread.  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/16/2019 9:38 am : link
Neil Best tweeted this out and highlighted that Gettleman's silence to media and fans is hard to comprehend considering how the Giants have operated for the past 25+ years.

Those who are old enough remember when Neil was the even-keeled guy on the Giants beat and on the old reporters shows with Pat Hanlon, can understand that when he notes how accessible Young and Accorsi were compared to Gettleman, this is a pretty stark contrast.

I'd love to ask Pat why in two years the Giants have completely changed their PR and fan outreach philosophy.
Of course...  
bw in dc : 11/16/2019 9:45 am : link
Gettleman should face the music. And this coming from someone who generally despises the media.

Gettleman put together this mess of a team that Shurmur has to coach. Granted, Shurmur looks incapable as a HC, but at least he answers for his struggles.

Furthermore, Gettleman is responsible for the hiring of Shurmur. I believe none of this nonsense that Mara hires that position independent of the GM. Mara may have final signature, which makes sense, but that is usually a rubber stamp for the GMís choice.

Almost all of these games are won or lost before they are played. And thatís a reflection of the GMís ability or inability to assemble the right talent. So Gettleman clearly has a huge stake in the product on the field.

Now is the perfect time for Gettleman to answer questions about the State of the Giants. He sure the f-ck has no problem telling everyone how prolific his resume is. Well, get out there and tell us where youíve gone wrong here...
RE: You beat me to this so i deleted my thread.  
Sammo85 : 11/16/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14680793 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
Neil Best tweeted this out and highlighted that Gettleman's silence to media and fans is hard to comprehend considering how the Giants have operated for the past 25+ years.

Those who are old enough remember when Neil was the even-keeled guy on the Giants beat and on the old reporters shows with Pat Hanlon, can understand that when he notes how accessible Young and Accorsi were compared to Gettleman, this is a pretty stark contrast.

I'd love to ask Pat why in two years the Giants have completely changed their PR and fan outreach philosophy.


Because even they recognize despite public denials and blanket statements of faux outrage that theyíve become a dreg team in the NFL and are an embarrassment on the field. Fans are sick and tired of excuses and five out of six years of some really awful football.
RE: Not a Gettleman fan but  
mfsd : 11/16/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14680778 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Donít care that he doesnít speak during the bye.

Doubt he would say anything of note if he did, JR never really revealed anything useful when he did it.


+1
in Gettleman's defense,  
Enzo : 11/16/2019 9:56 am : link
every time he speaks publicly he says something stupid. He's better off staying silent.
he was idle after Panthers firing  
mdc1 : 11/16/2019 9:59 am : link
and we picked him up. read into that. This org never settles for the best talent to commit to winning, always internal comfort. Worse than the government.
RE: Of course...  
BigBlueShock : 11/16/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14680798 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Gettleman should face the music. And this coming from someone who generally despises the media.

Gettleman put together this mess of a team that Shurmur has to coach. Granted, Shurmur looks incapable as a HC, but at least he answers for his struggles.

Furthermore, Gettleman is responsible for the hiring of Shurmur. I believe none of this nonsense that Mara hires that position independent of the GM. Mara may have final signature, which makes sense, but that is usually a rubber stamp for the GMís choice.

Almost all of these games are won or lost before they are played. And thatís a reflection of the GMís ability or inability to assemble the right talent. So Gettleman clearly has a huge stake in the product on the field.

Now is the perfect time for Gettleman to answer questions about the State of the Giants. He sure the f-ck has no problem telling everyone how prolific his resume is. Well, get out there and tell us where youíve gone wrong here...

Why the hell should DG speak? Thereís nothing heís gonna say to make you happy. The only thing that comes of that is you and others ridiculing everything he says, parsing some innocuous quotes and making them some huge deal and requiring those comments for the next year. You have zero interest in what he has to say. You just want another pound of flesh and more reasons to bitch about him.

Iím not saying he doesnít deserve some/most of it, but him speaking serves no purpose other than to give fans more reasons to complain. Constantly. You donít give a rats ass what he has to say. And you know it.
...  
christian : 11/16/2019 10:05 am : link
I've never known people who are obnoxious and insincere publicly, to then be self reflective and methodical privately.

Gettleman's act probably isn't an act, that's just who he is. I can't imagine he's inspiring to work for or be around. I find him grating and foolish.

He's not the type to put himself out there regularly. He only comes out when he thinks he's got the ammo to be smug and tell the public how clever he was at doing something.

What's he going to say mid season? The coach I hired is a mess, the line I fixed is a disaster, and the defensive I hand picked is literally the worst in the league?
RE: in Gettleman's defense,  
BigBlueShock : 11/16/2019 10:06 am : link
In comment 14680804 Enzo said:
Quote:
every time he speaks publicly he says something stupid. He's better off staying silent.

Exhibit A...
I've  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/16/2019 10:23 am : link
never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
RE: I've  
christian : 11/16/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.


Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.
Yes  
djm : 11/16/2019 10:29 am : link
The most concerning thing about the giants right now is DGís silence. Gimme a break.
RE: I've  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/16/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.


Exactly. And using the Knicks as an example?

Ehhhhh.
RE: Yes  
christian : 11/16/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14680823 djm said:
Quote:
The most concerning thing about the giants right now is DGís silence. Gimme a break.


No, the Giants biggest issue is the silent guy's league worst defense and horrendous defense.
christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/16/2019 10:34 am : link
I read what you wrote, but personally, Gettleman telling me "all is well" isn't going to move the bar one way or the other for me. Maybe when I was 20 years old I'd fall for the PR, but not at my age.

What matters is what they do on the field. Him telling me they know they have issues on the OL (or the OL isn't as bad as fans think) is just background noise.
RE: RE: I've  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/16/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14680822 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.


I wasnít aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
RE: I don't want DG to say anything... or Mara  
joeinpa : 11/16/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14680781 EricJ said:
[quote] What are they going to say? We are disappointed? That goes without saying.


Nothing good comes from making a statement at this point. Our record is our statement.

quote]. Cant State it any better than that
As long as I've been a fan...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/16/2019 10:43 am : link
the ONLY GM interviews I ever found fascinating were the old pre-Traina Inside Football offseason interview with George Young. This was an hour-long one-on-one session with Young and the English professor who used to own Inside Football. Young was blunt, coarse, but fairly honest. They were the highlight of that old publication.

I can't remember any remarkable open press interviews with Accorsi, Reese, or Gettleman other than stuff like Accorsi's obsession with Bert Jones, Reese's dismissiveness, and Gettleman shtick.
RE: As long as I've been a fan...  
Steve in ATL : 11/16/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14680835 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the ONLY GM interviews I ever found fascinating were the old pre-Traina Inside Football offseason interview with George Young. This was an hour-long one-on-one session with Young and the English professor who used to own Inside Football. Young was blunt, coarse, but fairly honest. They were the highlight of that old publication.

I can't remember any remarkable open press interviews with Accorsi, Reese, or Gettleman other than stuff like Accorsi's obsession with Bert Jones, Reese's dismissiveness, and Gettleman shtick.


I had forgotten about those George Young interviews with the original Inside Football editor. Those were great! I also looked forward to them.
Less Talk More Wins  
upnyg : 11/16/2019 10:49 am : link
I dont want to hear any BS, just want wins.
RE: RE: RE: I've  
christian : 11/16/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14680829 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14680822 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.



I wasnít aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.


If Gettleman articulated a cogent plan and deep self awareness of where the team is and is going publicly, do you believe fans are more or less likely to spend money supporting the team? Do you believe Mara/Tisch are more likely to greenlight long-term, guaranteed dollars to the players he desires this offseason?
We demand accountability from players  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/16/2019 10:58 am : link
And we demand that coaches discipline players for making mistakes, but when it comes to people in suits, theres never the same expectations. Why should the coaches and players have to answer every post game question but the people who built the team dont?
...  
christian : 11/16/2019 10:58 am : link
The Giants are potentially in the market for a new head coach, coordinators, and core free agents.

Having general management that can express himself and the situation of the team, the prospect of the existing talent, and lay out a confident, self-reflective vision can only help.

Ducking the media, and only speaking when he acquires players and kisses his own ass a little can only hurt.
DG not speaking is what all GM's should do.  
Torrag : 11/16/2019 11:00 am : link
You build the team and play out the season. You talk when it's over. Why? because you're evaluating everything from start to finish. It makes no sense to run your yap before.
RE: RE: RE: I've  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/16/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14680829 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14680822 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.



I wasnít aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.


I understand this thinking completely, but they did mandate PSL's for the stadium. The value of those PSL's is now far less than when purchased.

Either way, any business succeeds when they have confidence in the CEO. not so much here right now.
RE: He spoke to the media when they made the trade for Williams  
shyster : 11/16/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14680786 Milton said:
Quote:
Whether it's a draft pick, a free agent signing, or a trade, he faces the media to explain it.


DG gave an interview on the Williams trade to Michael Eisen of giants.com.

That's a Q and A press release, not facing the media.

DG has in fact been consistent as a GM in not talking to the media during the regular season, including the year Panthers were 15-1.

The article acknowledges that but does make an unsupported comment about Mara when it says that "Normally, Mara would have spoken by now."

That comment comes with a link to a Schwartz article from November of last year, but there are no in-season quotes from Mara in that article. The Schwartz article mentions how unhappy Mara was after the Jax loss in 2014 but Mara didn't talk about it publicly until after the season.
I like the Getts  
idiotsavant : 11/16/2019 11:15 am : link
On balance. But he's got to feed the overall defense and the run game big time.
Honestly...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/16/2019 11:16 am : link
I don't think fans REALLY want to hear from the GM. What they really want is someone like Francesca to publicly rip Gettleman and embarrass him. They want the "gottcha" moment.

I'm not defending Gettleman. I just don't see the upside for the organization. Potential free agents and future coaches are not watching if Gettleman is holding a press conference during the bye week. This isn't even on their radar.
Complete nonsense  
Giants : 11/16/2019 11:23 am : link
Whiners will always find something to whine about
Iíd rather not hear from the GM or Owner  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/16/2019 11:25 am : link
Youíd rather have an owner like Dallas? Jerry Jones talks every day about what we the fuck he talks about and they show him 10x a game on tv.

Give me silence.

Sometimes saying nothing is the better option.
RE: Honestly...  
christian : 11/16/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14680865 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't think fans REALLY want to hear from the GM. What they really want is someone like Francesca to publicly rip Gettleman and embarrass him. They want the "gottcha" moment.

I'm not defending Gettleman. I just don't see the upside for the organization. Potential free agents and future coaches are not watching if Gettleman is holding a press conference during the bye week. This isn't even on their radar.


Do you think the NFL at large views Gettleman and the Giants operation as well managed and on the right track right now? Why would it hurt if Gettleman was out in front, instilling some confidence and owning the situation publicly?
christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/16/2019 11:30 am : link
He can't instill confidence.

They've won seven games in two years. They are one of the worst teams in the NFL and were just beaten by one of the worst teams in the NFL. It may get worse if and when the Dolphins and Redskins beat them.

Holding a bye week presser, that few will pay attention to, isn't going to change the public perception of the organization.

The Giants are what their record says they are. They are who they have been as an organization - an organization that has fired a GM, VP of player evaluation, and two coaching staffs in the last few years. That's what people are paying attention to.
For the majority here  
WillVAB : 11/16/2019 11:44 am : link
Anything short of ďIím stepping down at the end of the seasonĒ and/or ďweíre making a change at the HC positionĒ would be a waste of a press conference and neither would happen at a mid-season presser.

Thereís nothing he can say that will make fans happy. He wonít talk about what he plans to do in FA to improve the team. He wonít talk about the draft.

...  
christian : 11/16/2019 11:50 am : link
Sure. And I am not saying it's 1-1, but usually the leader of a business, when delivering under performing results or earnings, wants to get in front of the issues and explain what's going to change.

For this fan, if Gettleman went out and said, the Giants are having a tough year, but they are committed to making tough decisions like elevating Jones, are excited about young players like Slayton, Lawrence, and others, that they will uncover every stone to bring in players like Williams, and that every person on the roster and staff will be held accountable over the next 7 games. I'd feel encouraged.
RE: RE: Yes  
djm : 11/16/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14680827 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14680823 djm said:


Quote:


The most concerning thing about the giants right now is DGís silence. Gimme a break.



No, the Giants biggest issue is the silent guy's league worst defense and horrendous defense.


I agree but the article said my exact quote. And that is ridiculous and pointless, just like nearly everything from the sports media these days.
RE: RE: RE: I've  
EricJ : 11/16/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14680829 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:



I wasnít aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.


I wasn't either...
RE: christian  
EricJ : 11/16/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14680876 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He can't instill confidence.

It may get worse if and when the Dolphins and Redskins beat them.

Holding a bye week presser, that few will pay attention to, isn't going to change the public perception of the organization.


Right... and saying anything just creates more distractions for the team. At this point with the season over, I also hope they lose to the fins and skins. We need to finish dead last if we expect significant changes.
So if Giants finish 3-13  
Jimmy Googs : 11/16/2019 12:09 pm : link
and 4th from dead last the powers that be will not make significant changes?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I've  
christian : 11/16/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14680896 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14680829 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:





I wasnít aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.



I wasn't either...


The guy manages a 150M a year budget and has his hands on a few times more in potential commitments.

Winning is the best way to generate revenue for the team.

Maybe the problem is the Giants don't operate like a publicly traded company in some respects?
Personally, I'd like to hear more from Shurmur  
CT Charlie : 11/16/2019 12:30 pm : link
and even less from Gettleman. The only thing a GM could say that I couldn't figure out for myself is something he shouldn't be saying to us.
RE: We demand accountability from players  
bw in dc : 11/16/2019 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14680847 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And we demand that coaches discipline players for making mistakes, but when it comes to people in suits, theres never the same expectations. Why should the coaches and players have to answer every post game question but the people who built the team dont?


Precisely.

He's arguably the person most responsible for this recent nightmare.

So he hides in the safety of the shadows. Letting others take it on the chin for his decisions.
RE: Maybe he is just busy negotiating  
jeff57 : 11/16/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14680766 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
away our remaining draft picks for other team's free agents...


Yeah.Very possible.
Heíll just peddle the usual BS anyway  
jeff57 : 11/16/2019 12:39 pm : link
.
RE: I've  
bw in dc : 11/16/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.


So.

If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...



RE: RE: I've  
christian : 11/16/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14680932 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



So.

If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...




The Giants can bring out Reese to answer questions. According to many, it's still all his fault. Problem = solved.
I donít understand fans that donít want to hear  
RDJR : 11/16/2019 12:52 pm : link
from the teams management. Why not? The more information we have the better, no? Ignore the spin that you want to ignore. Read the transcript, watch the video and make your own observations. The more information we have about our team the better IMO. Isnít that why BBI exists?
Iíd like some assurances that weíre on track for the 7-year rebuild  
TD : 11/16/2019 1:51 pm : link
Derp.
RE: RE: I've  
TrueBlue56 : 11/16/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14680932 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



So.

If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...




But, the owner and general manager does deal with the media when it is appropriate. At the end of the season, the draft and prior to the season. They do not need to give an in season account of the team. It serves no purpose and as mentioned, gettleman is not doing anything different from the way he has operated in the past (win or lose).
Jeez...  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 11/16/2019 1:58 pm : link
At this point I just assumed he was living in New Mexico in the witness protection program wearing a Groucho Marx disguise.
The old adage...If you don't have anything nice to say  
Jimmy Googs : 11/16/2019 2:02 pm : link
just start a handle and post on BBI...
Heís  
Les in TO : 11/16/2019 2:04 pm : link
Got a hate-on for the press as you can see from his surly interviews . Young Accorsi and Reese all addressed the media during the bye week as the article noted. Avoiding the press is just salt in the wounds for a fan base that is rightfully disappointed with the sad state of the team
RE: RE: RE: I've  
RDJR : 11/16/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14680967 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14680932 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.

They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.



So.

If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...






But, the owner and general manager does deal with the media when it is appropriate. At the end of the season, the draft and prior to the season. They do not need to give an in season account of the team. It serves no purpose and as mentioned, gettleman is not doing anything different from the way he has operated in the past (win or lose).


I get that. Iím not arguing about their decision to stay silent. What I take issue with are fans that donít want to hear from the team and somehow believe that we (fans) are better off with less information. I canít support that premise.
Talk is Cheap  
Rick in Dallas : 11/16/2019 2:14 pm : link
You doing your talking on the field
This team sucks from the top to the bottom.
We are deep into the 60ís and 70ís once again.
Like George Young back in the day who will lead this team in the future to glory.
Not Gettleman or Shurmur and no one trusts Mara either.
I'm okay not hearing from him  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 2:19 pm : link
He's an arrogant ass. He'd only say some stupid things and also lie anyways.

I'm okay with him being an asshole as long as next year the team has meaningful late December football.

But the more he shuts up- the more the media and fans are going to tear into him and Mara next year. This is Mara's hire. He knows what DG is. DG has a "screw you" attitude. If he wins - it's cool. He loses he'll get turned on big time next year. This year he's still fortunate enough to have excuses.

And there is no reason for the media to like him.
The only words I want to hear him speak are  
Go Terps : 11/16/2019 2:38 pm : link
"I am resigning."

Anything besides that isn't with listening to.
Iíd like to hear from him  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 2:52 pm : link
There are questions he needs to answer for. When DG came in, the message was clear ó they were going to rebuild and compete. Almost two years in, where the hell are we, and whatís next? I realize we arenít going to get any straight answers óbut the fans have a right to hear what the team has to say about current mess.
Who really cares?  
trueblueinpw : 11/16/2019 2:53 pm : link
I just donít give a fuck about the Giants these days. Whatís Getty really gonna say anyway? Hiring Murmur was a mistake, heís over drafted and whiffed on FA and he just engineered the dumbest trade in NFL history. Seriously, whatís this fucking moron gonna say that anyone with a fucking brain is gonna want to hear?
So whatís left for the season?  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 2:55 pm : link
Do we shift focus on evaluating you g guys, are we all in on winning, whatís the plan for second chapter of this mess of a season? How do they see the development of the young QB? Thereís a lot to understand.
With the reactions on here  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 2:58 pm : link
Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.
When the team is struggling  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 3:00 pm : link
Thatís exactly when we should hear from them. They need to answer the questions. Hiding from tough questions is cowardly.
Who cares  
micky : 11/16/2019 3:15 pm : link
He doesn't need to speak at all now, after season, or anytime. He's doing his job. One of the best gm's in the league.
RE: With the reactions on here  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.


Because you can't trust what he says.

If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
Eric: You're missing the point  
WillieYoung : 11/16/2019 3:22 pm : link
It isn't that they're be some great relevation or some fascinating tidbit in a presser. It's that a GM who only speaks when things are going well and hides when the shit hits, is never going to lead this organization anywhere. My guess is there would have been a presser if we were 8-2 or even 5-5.
RE: RE: With the reactions on here  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14681013 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.



Because you can't trust what he says.

If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
That applies to any interview. So we should do interviews when the team is doing well, but if doing poorly they shouldnít have to answer the questions? That makes no sense.
Gettleman has nothing to say  
joe48 : 11/16/2019 3:56 pm : link
So this bothers the people who want to light up the board with their criticism . The haters have to relax. They find something wrong with everything. Social media responsible for so much negativity.
RE: RE: RE: With the reactions on here  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14681029 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14681013 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.



Because you can't trust what he says.

If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.

That applies to any interview. So we should do interviews when the team is doing well, but if doing poorly they shouldnít have to answer the questions? That makes no sense.


Nooo it doesn't. You are trying to change the narrative of my question and then exaggerating the point.

Not all GM's lie about the state of the team or lie to the degree Gettleman has.

Where did i say because the team stinks don't listen? I said because he's a liar and I cant trust a thing he says that I shouldn't listen. And i feel many feel the same way. I said I prefer to watch what he does.

DG made this bed with his over-the-top lying. Now as a fan being lied to much and extremely as DG has, you feel I should be "required" as a fan to listen to more of his lies? Huh???
RE: Gettleman has nothing to say  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14681039 joe48 said:
Quote:
So this bothers the people who want to light up the board with their criticism . The haters have to relax. They find something wrong with everything. Social media responsible for so much negativity.


Or the homers want to bury their heads in the sand.

OFc it's much of social media's fault the Giants suck.
So then whatís the point in any interview?  
UberAlias : 11/16/2019 4:42 pm : link
You may not care -ever- but many do. No one is forcing anyone to listen who isnít interested. But there is a reason organizations do these things. From a team standpoint, addressing the fans when the plan youíve conveyed appears to be running sideways is as important a time to hear from leadership as any.
RE: Eric: You're missing the point  
BigBlueShock : 11/16/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14681016 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
It isn't that they're be some great relevation or some fascinating tidbit in a presser. It's that a GM who only speaks when things are going well and hides when the shit hits, is never going to lead this organization anywhere. My guess is there would have been a presser if we were 8-2 or even 5-5.

Itís been mentioned many times in this thread, but apparently youíve somehow missed them all. Gettleman has NEVER talked during the bye week. This includes his time in Carolina. So, yeah, youíre flat out wrong.
You know  
Daniel in MI : 11/16/2019 4:49 pm : link
Your seasonís in the shitter when fans argue about hearing from the GM. Here, hereís the interview heíd give:

DG: Hi, howaya? Good to see everyone. To start Iíll say Iím disappointed with our record, as I know the players and coaches are too. We were hurt by some injuries, some rookie growing pains. I know weíre going to continue to improve, and for my part I continue to evaluate and add pieces where I think they can help us.

Q: Why do the Giants suck? Do you blame Shurmur?
DG: Well, Iím ultimately responsible (wink!) but I know Pat and his staff are working hard. We need to clean up some turnovers and cause more, too. But at this point weíre all in on winning out.

Q: Why canít the D stop anyone, ever, at any time?
DG: Well, we have some young guys developing on the DL and outside. There are going to be some growing pains. I like how there has been no quit. I remember with Carolina once we were bad but got better, so thatís the idea here.

Q: Do you realize youíre team is worse than the Jets?
DG: Well, it was back and forth, and the Jets ate a storied franchise here going back to SB IIII, Namath, Klecko, Gastineau...and they play in a beautiful, stadium! At Carolina we lost to the Dolphins once but Iíve been doing this a long time and we got it fixed. Weíll get it done here.

Q: Do you think Bettcher should be let go given the D is last, or near last?
DG: Coach is working hard but weíll address everything at the end of the season when I can defer decisions to later, at that time.

Q:How has Jones played?
DG: After he was stripped for yet another defensive TD, I blew chunks and it was full blown chunks love.

Ok fellas. Thanks.
RE: So then whatís the point in any interview?  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14681074 UberAlias said:
Quote:
You may not care -ever- but many do. No one is forcing anyone to listen who isnít interested. But there is a reason organizations do these things. From a team standpoint, addressing the fans when the plan youíve conveyed appears to be running sideways is as important a time to hear from leadership as any.


Again you are trying to change the narrative. I said if you want to listen him go ahead. Yet you're "incredulous" for others that don't want to listen to him. SO for the many that don't you're trying to "butt your nose in" and give them a dig for not being the fan you want them to be (i.e. . imply "what kind of fan are you that doesn't want to hear the GM speak. I'm a good fan because I want to listen him.).

Secondly, I don't get your subject question. Didn't I say that not all GM's lie or at least not lie to the extent that DG has? How have you twisted that into - to paraphrase that I'm suggesting don't ever listen to ANY interview?

Third, when you say "But there is a reason organizations do these things."
You are IGNORING the fact that the OWNER KNEW what DG was. DG does NOT do this. If you want a GM that does this then DG isn't your guy. Mara hired him knowing very well DG doesn't do this.

Now let me ask you something. I'm asking if you could put yourself in the shoes of many of us who don't trust a thing DG says. If you do this - how can you NOT understand that if you completely don;t trust someone then why the hell should you waste your time listening to him? You know how he feels about these things and he's not going give you shit.

You feel you are getting "information" from DG fine. Many of us feel like we're getting "disinformation." I'd rather not have to hear or read "disinformation." By DG not speaking at these type of things while so many others have - doesn't this tell you he has no regard for things like this?

And un-importantly - the more he opens up his mouth on stuff like this - especially if he isn't interested- the more many of who dislike or hate him will hate him more for his arrogant and asinine comments. I for one would prefer to not hate him. I want to see him win.
RE: RE: With the reactions on here  
bw in dc : 11/16/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14681013 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.



Because you can't trust what he says.

If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.


Then you don't have to watch it or read about it.

Whether he answers anything with substance or cliche or whatever, I think there are questions that can be posed to DG that he should be compelled to answer as a face of this franchise.

The game has evolved where fans are more in tune with the role management plays. And how those decisions by management, with cap/personnel, impact the quality of the product on the field.

In fact, I think it's the very least he can do. Mara as well.
RE: RE: RE: With the reactions on here  
giantstock : 11/16/2019 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14681131 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14681013 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Whatís the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.



Because you can't trust what he says.

If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.



Then you don't have to watch it or read about it.



I don't actively seek it out but when I have the tV and some analyst or commentator will mention what DG said. Or what I hear on the radio or when we argue about points some posters will quote what DG said bringing what he said into the discussion. In fact I took an idiotic quote of his that another poster posted and used it for sometime to show what a liar and ass he was.

Anyhow, tt was the poster uberalias that asked the question of those of us that don't give a shit what he has to say - if we only listen to DG if the team was going good and not bad.

I replied ot thta and told him that for many of us that we don;t give a shit what a liar and ass has to say.

You want to believe him or play some mind games trying to decipher what he means or just want to laugh at the asshole- be my guest.

Just don't get incredulous for those of us that want to see what he does and no longer give a shit what he says.
When we go to a movie and it stinks  
Bill2 : 11/16/2019 7:33 pm : link
Do we have a RIGHT to hear from the managers or officers of Disney? Do we ever get the real scoop on why the movie sucks?

Even if we are shareholders (and the Giants are not a public company. So not even that level of alleged "accountability") can we do much more than write a letter to Investor Relations and get a form letter back?

They are in the privately owned entertainment business. We can only vote by not going to their movies. As Giant fans had to do once before to get things to change at the top.

Only language they understand.


RE: RE: RE: RE: With the reactions on here  
bw in dc : 11/16/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14681152 giantstock said:
Quote:

You want to believe him or play some mind games trying to decipher what he means or just want to laugh at the asshole- be my guest.

Just don't get incredulous for those of us that want to see what he does and no longer give a shit what he says.


I've seen what he does. And it's less than impressive.

But if you need to see more, my guess is you'll be given that opportunity because I doubt DG is going anywhere.

So the poor product will likely continue...

At least media stories about why DG isnít speaking are less disruptive  
Ivan15 : 11/16/2019 7:52 pm : link
than reporting on his tap dance.
why did the bye week presser become commonplace?  
MM_in_NYC : 11/16/2019 8:54 pm : link
what changed now? lot of people saying it's not important. while i agree traditions should be re-evaluated from time to time to consider the value of following them i so far haven't heard a lot of substance to claims that go against the original or ultimately accepted rationale for the presser.
RE: So if Giants finish 3-13  
81_Great_Dane : 11/16/2019 9:10 pm : link
In comment 14680907 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and 4th from dead last the powers that be will not make significant changes?
1-6 the rest of the way is going to be a problem for the coaches. That means they're going to stink up the joint on at least one side of the ball:

If offense and defense both flop, I can't imagine the current staff surviving. Shurmur might survive if somehow they can blame the offense's problems on DJ's rookie growing pains. That seems unlikely.

If the offense flops and the defense shows improvement, Shurmur probably goes, and Bettcher probably goes with him. Maybe, if the defense dominates for the last seven games, they could survive that. Also unlikely.

If the offense is better and the defense flops, and Jones shows improvement, Shurmur probably survives but Bettcher is probably gone. Also Shurmur probably has to make some changes, like giving up play calling and hiring a QB coach. They could argue he has too much on his plate right now. That has the advantage of probably being true.

If the offense and defense both improve, they don't go 1-6. That sure would be nice, huh.
...  
christian : 11/16/2019 9:15 pm : link
It's not that Gettleman won't give a state of the team at the midway point in 2019, it's he's not the type of manager or leader who would.

It's not a tragedy. He's going to stay quiet, resurface in January. He'll have something cute to say. He'll do the opposite.

He's a little old, but even the old have a chance every day to self assess, critique, and do it a little better the next go.

Does self assess, critique, and then most importantly do it a little better feel like what Dave is all about? That's the big question.
.  
Bill2 : 11/16/2019 9:21 pm : link
ageism doesn't fit with other stated positions
RE: .  
christian : 11/16/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14681228 Bill2 said:
Quote:
ageism doesn't fit with other stated positions


Let me rephrase. No matter the age, there's always a chance for practicing more personal wisdom. Whether Dave can do so this offseason will be critical in his future employment and the immediate term success of the Giants.
RE: why did the bye week presser become commonplace?  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/16/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14681206 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
what changed now? lot of people saying it's not important. while i agree traditions should be re-evaluated from time to time to consider the value of following them i so far haven't heard a lot of substance to claims that go against the original or ultimately accepted rationale for the presser.


The only conclusion one could draw was that ownership requested it as a measure of goodwill with the public. Considering they had been doing it for 20+ years, that would mean that it was happening under Wellington Mara and then continued under John.

But then, all of a sudden they hire Gettleman and he shuts that down with the blessing of ownership? Why was he suddenly given this exemption?
the face of the team in season  
fkap : 11/16/2019 10:51 pm : link
is the HC.

Off season it's the GM.

He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.

It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.
christian  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 8:46 am : link
fully agree.

(cant tell you how many posts I wish I could re phrase to reflect what I really meant. Not really a form of communication where most of us work to polish what we write)
RE: the face of the team in season  
Jimmy Googs : 11/17/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14681299 fkap said:
Quote:
is the HC.

Off season it's the GM.

He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.

It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.


good post
I think this is a non-story. DG has never done it, and there is good  
yatqb : 11/17/2019 8:59 am : link
reason not to. How soon would that interview turn to Shurmurís job security, for example? Any answer he gave could stir things up negatively. Whether he said that he fully supports him, or that we evaluate everyone after the season, or that he doesnít discuss personnel matters with the press. There would who right answer.

Judge DG by his actions. I could care less about what he says or when.
is he back  
BigBlueCane : 11/17/2019 9:06 am : link
in treatment?
Did somebody just compare the Giants and public disclosure  
Mike from Ohio : 11/17/2019 9:15 am : link
With a publicly traded company and the need to talk to investors? That may be a new standard in poor analogies.

Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and Ďstay investedí in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems arenít as bad as anyone thinks?

Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.
media's demand for DG's comments  
bc4life : 11/17/2019 10:00 am : link
may be on point may also be self serving. They want something to write about for their business, serves their needs not necessarily the Giants
Mike  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 10:17 am : link
You missed. By 100 miles. And wound up violently agreeing with the actual point. Literally.

You basically re-stated the point.
.  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 10:32 am : link
Wish I had added the last sentence of your post to drive the point home.

The Giants are not accountable to fans and do not explain why the team is bad...at best they express "sympathy" and insist they will do better in the future.

They sure don't explain their rationale in a way anyone can depend on.
RE: the face of the team in season  
MM_in_NYC : 11/17/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14681299 fkap said:
Quote:
is the HC.

Off season it's the GM.

He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.

It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.


Apparently Wellington Mara disagreed with you that HC is face in-season and GM is off-season. Where does your stance on that come from anyway? Also, are you saying there can only be one face at a time? How does that jive with owners being consistent faces of the team during in-season and off-season? I don't get confused when I hear from GM's in-season. I'm not clear what you find so confusing about it?
You basically..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/17/2019 11:03 am : link
could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.

In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
RE: Did somebody just compare the Giants and public disclosure  
christian : 11/17/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14681410 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
With a publicly traded company and the need to talk to investors? That may be a new standard in poor analogies.

Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and Ďstay investedí in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems arenít as bad as anyone thinks?

Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.


A publicly traded company is under no obligation to bring out certain members of the executive committee and field questions during an earnings call, they do it because they want to instill confidence in their stakeholders (owners) and customers (fans).

Sony definitely makes their executive committee available on earnings calls, and their filmmakers available for press junkets. If a film sucks, the filmmakers hear it.

In all practicality, the Giants do make the equivalent of the filmmaker available for hard questions. The coaches answer questions to the press all of the time.

Do film goers make their decisions on what films to see because the Chief Media Officer of Sony fields questions? Probably not. Do they get a little reassurance that their favorite franchise or series is going to be a priority and get them excited to give Sony their money? Absolutely.
RE: You basically..  
jcn56 : 11/17/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14681484 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.

In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.


That has been status quo for some time - when Reese did it, the complaints were that his press conferences didn't say anything. With Gettleman, he just skips it altogether and people get miffed he didn't speak.

At the end of the day - the team stinks, and there's really nothing anyone can say that will give someone solace. You either believe that these guys are the right guys to fix the problem and they have some clue how to get there, or you don't. No amount of talk is going to change that.

Personally, I'm just glad we don't have a new folksy catchphrase to have rehashed 10,000 times over. No more bags of donuts or pretzels, no more hog mollies. Just fix the damn team.
RE: .  
Mike from Ohio : 11/17/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14681461 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Wish I had added the last sentence of your post to drive the point home.

The Giants are not accountable to fans and do not explain why the team is bad...at best they express "sympathy" and insist they will do better in the future.

They sure don't explain their rationale in a way anyone can depend on.


Iím guessing you donít listen to investor calls often. The goal of an investor call is to explain financial results and how the company is proceeding in the future. It is not to express sympathy and promise to do better next time. That statement is wildly wrong.

So continuing with the analogy, you would expect DG to come out and explain the causes for the 2-8 record and both the short and long term response to improve results? If so, you donít listen to many football press conference either.

But please...do continue.
RE: RE: Did somebody just compare the Giants and public disclosure  
Mike from Ohio : 11/17/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14681497 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14681410 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


With a publicly traded company and the need to talk to investors? That may be a new standard in poor analogies.

Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and Ďstay investedí in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems arenít as bad as anyone thinks?

Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.



A publicly traded company is under no obligation to bring out certain members of the executive committee and field questions during an earnings call, they do it because they want to instill confidence in their stakeholders (owners) and customers (fans).

Sony definitely makes their executive committee available on earnings calls, and their filmmakers available for press junkets. If a film sucks, the filmmakers hear it.

In all practicality, the Giants do make the equivalent of the filmmaker available for hard questions. The coaches answer questions to the press all of the time.

Do film goers make their decisions on what films to see because the Chief Media Officer of Sony fields questions? Probably not. Do they get a little reassurance that their favorite franchise or series is going to be a priority and get them excited to give Sony their money? Absolutely.


Press junkets are PR events that happen prior to a movies release. They are not done to explain to the public why the movie succeeded or didnít.

If the analogy was to be as simple as ďsomeone goes before the press to talk about something of interest to the public,Ē then yes...exact same thing.
When you are going thru a restructuring process  
Jimmy Googs : 11/17/2019 12:26 pm : link
the communications should be less is more, or nothing at all.

Gettleman just didn't realize he needed to start that process right off the bat, and as a result his early communications were a bit verbose & ladened with arrogance...
RE: RE: RE: Did somebody just compare the Giants and public disclosure  
christian : 11/17/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14681523 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Press junkets are PR events that happen prior to a movies release. They are not done to explain to the public why the movie succeeded or didnít.

If the analogy was to be as simple as ďsomeone goes before the press to talk about something of interest to the public,Ē then yes...exact same thing.


Do you believe the utility of the post-game press conference for the NFL with the coach and players is more to:

1) say something of interest to the public

or:

2) fuel the sports media with information about an entertainment event to ensure there is media coverage of the event

Now, what do you believe the utility of a press junket is?

Do you believe the utility of corporate officers joining an IR call is

1) to be an authority on the legal and regulatory obligations of their 10 k filings

or

2) be the face of the success and/or failure of the organization and engage with their customers and investors
Christian  
Mike from Ohio : 11/17/2019 2:15 pm : link
Here is the difference...

Shareholders are owners of a public entity. Management is accountable to them and has legal and fiduciary responsibilities to account for their actions and results.

A football team has no obligation to fans that choose to follow them. They do it for entertainment purposes only. They have no legal responsibility to account for themselves to anyone other than the team owners.
Mike  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 2:16 pm : link
" we violently agree. Wish I had added your sentence to make my post more clear"



.  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 2:18 pm : link
get it?

We said the same things and agree on the points you are making

Did from the start.

RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 11/17/2019 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14681519 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:


Iím guessing you donít listen to investor calls often. The goal of an investor call is to explain financial results and how the company is proceeding in the future. It is not to express sympathy and promise to do better next time. That statement is wildly wrong.



I've listened to plenty of investor calls. If a company misses their target, they will indeed explain why. And in great detail because investors definitely want to know why. I work in healthcare. If we miss target we will go into many details - flu season, unexpected large claims, higher than expected utilization, etc.

If a company had an issue where something that went seriously wrong, like a Chipotle having a food contamination problem, they will express regret, apologize, and explain how they are fixing the problem.

So those calls are much more than simply talking about financials and offering/confirming guidance.
The flaw in these metaphors  
Go Terps : 11/17/2019 3:37 pm : link
The Giants aren't run like a corporation. They're run like a mom and pop shop.
agree with the posts by bw and Go Terps  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 3:52 pm : link
Id go further with Go Terps comparison. The Mom and Pop has hands on owners. Feels to me like a second generation hobby business. Just a very large one in a media capital.

Hence the contrast with an entity that is/has to be more responsible vs one that is unaccountable.

That's the point and the only point. We should not expect any different from a second generation family hobby/business.

RE: .  
Mike from Ohio : 11/17/2019 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14681642 Bill2 said:
Quote:
get it?

We said the same things and agree on the points you are making

Did from the start.


I misunderstood your original post, Bill2. When I go back and read it in that light I see it now. My apologies.
No problem Mike  
Bill2 : 11/17/2019 9:33 pm : link
We were in violent agreement the whole time.

We should run for office.
RE: You basically..  
MM_in_NYC : 11/17/2019 9:59 pm : link
In comment 14681484 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.

In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.


If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.
RE: Christian  
MM_in_NYC : 11/17/2019 10:01 pm : link
In comment 14681637 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Here is the difference...

Shareholders are owners of a public entity. Management is accountable to them and has legal and fiduciary responsibilities to account for their actions and results.

A football team has no obligation to fans that choose to follow them. They do it for entertainment purposes only. They have no legal responsibility to account for themselves to anyone other than the team owners.


A team has no obligation to fans? Wow
...  
christian : 11/17/2019 10:47 pm : link
I was part of the project management team for ~20 quarterly earnings events for a Fortune 10 energy major from 2008-2012. My focus was on the tech side for media and public affairs end. The paper side was handled by lawyers and accountants as you might imagine.

We spent considerable resources on market, investor, and especially consumer sentiment and built and modeled everything, every outcome.

The regulatory and fiduciary responsibilities are typically satisfied by filing reports to the relevant agencies, posting them online, and post marking hard copies for investors.

You don't have to publicly tell a compelling story of why money is invested in a certain way. You don't have to level for your mistakes, paint a picture of the future, justify why hard times now are the seeds of good times later. You don't have to go on CNBC after. You don't have to give a shit. Just drop the tables, and say when the dividend will be deposited.

But it's crazy, when you treat your customers and investors like intellectual equals, some portion of them will be compelled. That's what the data said anyway. Some will spend their money with you when times are tough because they believe things will turn around. Not all, just some. That's the reason it's a production and not prepared remarks and an email.

The Giants are worth ~25% more than the Jets. Same share of the stadium, same metro area, same TV deal. Giants fans give a shit, even when the team sucks. The Giants have gained trust with their fans. If the Giants lose that, and become the Jets, they can probably guess what a floor for their value is.

So sure, not a perfect analogy, and the Giants aren't obligated to do anything, but they better start winning, or convincing their fans they are going to. They already look like the Jets on the field, Mara doesn't want his accounts to look like them too.
what is it that people want to hear Gettleman say,  
Jersey55 : 11/18/2019 10:10 am : link
that the team sucks and we need to make changes...
RE: RE: You basically..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/18/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14682063 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14681484 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.

In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.



If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.


Gettleman didn't "postpone" anything, and certainly not the midseason address.

He doesn't hold them. Didn't in Carolina, either.

This is basically another way to criticize him for something he's not doing differently in good or bad times.
RE: RE: RE: You basically..  
MM_in_NYC : 11/18/2019 1:06 pm : link
In comment 14682351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14682063 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 14681484 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.

In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.



If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.



Gettleman didn't "postpone" anything, and certainly not the midseason address.

He doesn't hold them. Didn't in Carolina, either.

This is basically another way to criticize him for something he's not doing differently in good or bad times.


No one asked what he did in Carolina. He's a Giant now. Giant GMs traditionally hold midseason pressers. He's not holding one. That's not artificially creating a reason to criticize him. He is actually not doing something that Giant GMs do - and he's doing it without the balls of actually owning it.
people seem to be wanting Gettleman to tell  
Jersey55 : 11/18/2019 4:53 pm : link
them that all will be well and to just relax and what you see will all go away soon just like in the movies, get real it is exactly what you see, a shit show that won't be going away soon so just relax and see how this thing unfolds....
"What's he going to say?" isn't the point  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/18/2019 4:57 pm : link
The point is accountability. He should have to answer questions. Wouldn't it be wonderful to run a billion dollar business and have zero accountability to anyone other than the franchise owner even when it's tailspinning into the ground.

People pay real money to go to these games. It's not asking a lot to make the same press conference appearance other GMs do, and that players and coaches are obligated to do.
He doesn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/18/2019 5:00 pm : link
have accountability because he didn't give a mod-season conference??

Jesus Christ.

He's still going to be accountable - he's just not serving up a fluff shit sandwich
I don't even look at this team like it's Gettleman's  
Thunderstruck27 : 11/18/2019 5:10 pm : link
considering the Mara's dictate so many personnel moves.
of course he should talk to the press  
PerpetualNervousness : 11/18/2019 5:20 pm : link
you don't need convoluted analogies. he's the GM of the NY Football Giants. the coach speaks 5 times a week. the players too. it's part of the job description. but the GM sits in silence when he's the one who's put together the team because why, exactly? it will disrupt things? Brian Cashman talk to the press all the time, and it doesn't seem to have ruined the Yankees.

i don't really care what he did or didn't do in Carolina. it's crazy all the people on here who defend him this way and that and then think that it's too hard for him to put on his big boy pants and talk to the NY press corps. i don't expect him to tell me all his plans, or to throw Shurmur under the bus, but it would be nice to actually have him answer a question or two from someone other than the Giants in-house propaganda voice about the Leonard Williams trade. or maybe give some honest opinion about how well he thinks he's doing his job. he gave an interview with SI in the preseason in which he told us fans to trust him and his staff because they've been around a while and know what they're doing. he said he's been to a lot of Superbowls and he knows what a Superbowl team looks like. now we're halfway through another terrible season and a lot of us are very skeptical. share some thoughts, Dave. help us understand how you see the state of the Giants. or maybe show some humility. you're paid a lot of money to be one of the faces of this organization. 22 year-old DeAndre Baker can stand up and talk to reporters analyzing his mistakes after every rough game but Gettleman can't speak once a year? give me a break

Dave..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/18/2019 5:40 pm : link
the morons need to hear you speak!

They won't know exactly what the point is of it, but they demand it!!
RE: of course he should talk to the press  
bw in dc : 11/18/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14682997 PerpetualNervousness said:
Quote:
you don't need convoluted analogies. he's the GM of the NY Football Giants. the coach speaks 5 times a week. the players too. it's part of the job description. but the GM sits in silence when he's the one who's put together the team because why, exactly? it will disrupt things? Brian Cashman talk to the press all the time, and it doesn't seem to have ruined the Yankees.

i don't really care what he did or didn't do in Carolina. it's crazy all the people on here who defend him this way and that and then think that it's too hard for him to put on his big boy pants and talk to the NY press corps. i don't expect him to tell me all his plans, or to throw Shurmur under the bus, but it would be nice to actually have him answer a question or two from someone other than the Giants in-house propaganda voice about the Leonard Williams trade. or maybe give some honest opinion about how well he thinks he's doing his job. he gave an interview with SI in the preseason in which he told us fans to trust him and his staff because they've been around a while and know what they're doing. he said he's been to a lot of Superbowls and he knows what a Superbowl team looks like. now we're halfway through another terrible season and a lot of us are very skeptical. share some thoughts, Dave. help us understand how you see the state of the Giants. or maybe show some humility. you're paid a lot of money to be one of the faces of this organization. 22 year-old DeAndre Baker can stand up and talk to reporters analyzing his mistakes after every rough game but Gettleman can't speak once a year? give me a break


Indeed. Gettleman is 100% responsible for the players, the HC, and the team's record.

Yet it is amazing many are so comfortable with a person with such power hiding away in the Giants Way Witness Protection Program.

If we were winning and competing I'd be fine with this incognito approach. But when we are entering another wasted season the very least this guy can do is face the gauntlet of the NY and national press.
RE: Dave..  
PerpetualNervousness : 11/18/2019 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14683020 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the morons need to hear you speak!

They won't know exactly what the point is of it, but they demand it!!


well, i don't know what the morons need. you seem to have a better grip on that. but sophisticated fans actually expect the GM to be able to speak coherently about the current state of his team, comment on how he evaluates what he has done so far, and give us some idea of his plans going forward and what he expects to see. those are not state secrets. and since no one seems to dispute that he does speak to the press when it suits him, I'm not sure what the defense against speaking midseason - as Giant GMs historically have done -is exactly. that it will hurt their playoff chances? that he doesn't have to so nyah nyah nyah?
If fans..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/18/2019 7:23 pm : link
are truly sophisticated, they should understand that little to nothing can be gleaned from press conferences.

So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.
RE: If fans..  
Les in TO : 11/18/2019 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14683136 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are truly sophisticated, they should understand that little to nothing can be gleaned from press conferences.

So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.
actually gettleman has demonstrated that if he says one thing during a press conference heís going to do the opposite. So itís a good opportunity for fans to hear whatís coming down the pipeline
RE: If fans..  
MM_in_NYC : 11/18/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14683136 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are truly sophisticated, they should understand that little to nothing can be gleaned from press conferences.

So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.


Yep, everyone but you is a moron.
No..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/18/2019 8:02 pm : link
not everyone.
There are a lot of good posters on BBI.

There are also a lot of morons.
By the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/19/2019 8:04 am : link
Carolina's owner just called a quick meeting with the press yesterday. He said:

- Will evaluate Rivera after the season
- Will evaluate the GM after the season
- Will evaluate Cam when he's healthy
- Will not accept mediocrity
- Will take short term losing seasons to build a long-term contender

In short - nothing changed from yesterday to today.

But he talked to reporters. That's the exercise many of you want from Gettleman.
'I hate the way Gettleman talks to the media!  
Britt in VA : 11/19/2019 8:31 am : link
"Why won't Gettleman talk to the media?"
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