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| George Young, who should be in the NFL Hall of Fame, answered every message. Ernie Accorsi was cut from the same cloth. Even when social media was emerging Jerry Reese always had a bye-week session with the media, even in the darkest of times. |
Doubt he would say anything of note if he did, JR never really revealed anything useful when he did it.
Reports are upset he is not saying anything because they have nothing more to write about.
Nothing good comes from making a statement at this point. Our record is our statement.
If he opens his mouth, people will be analyzing not only every word but the inflection in his voice just to come away with some indication about the future.
How will any of this help the team? It doesn't, and only serve to feed the nonsense that is the media.
p.s.--The media wants him to speak so that they can bash whatever he says. That's how they get clicks. There's only so much blood they can suck out of Gettleman from a distance.
That said, who cares. As others have pointed out, little would come from such an effort anyway.
Those who are old enough remember when Neil was the even-keeled guy on the Giants beat and on the old reporters shows with Pat Hanlon, can understand that when he notes how accessible Young and Accorsi were compared to Gettleman, this is a pretty stark contrast.
I'd love to ask Pat why in two years the Giants have completely changed their PR and fan outreach philosophy.
Gettleman put together this mess of a team that Shurmur has to coach. Granted, Shurmur looks incapable as a HC, but at least he answers for his struggles.
Furthermore, Gettleman is responsible for the hiring of Shurmur. I believe none of this nonsense that Mara hires that position independent of the GM. Mara may have final signature, which makes sense, but that is usually a rubber stamp for the GM’s choice.
Almost all of these games are won or lost before they are played. And that’s a reflection of the GM’s ability or inability to assemble the right talent. So Gettleman clearly has a huge stake in the product on the field.
Now is the perfect time for Gettleman to answer questions about the State of the Giants. He sure the f-ck has no problem telling everyone how prolific his resume is. Well, get out there and tell us where you’ve gone wrong here...
Those who are old enough remember when Neil was the even-keeled guy on the Giants beat and on the old reporters shows with Pat Hanlon, can understand that when he notes how accessible Young and Accorsi were compared to Gettleman, this is a pretty stark contrast.
I'd love to ask Pat why in two years the Giants have completely changed their PR and fan outreach philosophy.
Because even they recognize despite public denials and blanket statements of faux outrage that they’ve become a dreg team in the NFL and are an embarrassment on the field. Fans are sick and tired of excuses and five out of six years of some really awful football.
Doubt he would say anything of note if he did, JR never really revealed anything useful when he did it.
+1
Gettleman put together this mess of a team that Shurmur has to coach. Granted, Shurmur looks incapable as a HC, but at least he answers for his struggles.
Furthermore, Gettleman is responsible for the hiring of Shurmur. I believe none of this nonsense that Mara hires that position independent of the GM. Mara may have final signature, which makes sense, but that is usually a rubber stamp for the GM’s choice.
Almost all of these games are won or lost before they are played. And that’s a reflection of the GM’s ability or inability to assemble the right talent. So Gettleman clearly has a huge stake in the product on the field.
Now is the perfect time for Gettleman to answer questions about the State of the Giants. He sure the f-ck has no problem telling everyone how prolific his resume is. Well, get out there and tell us where you’ve gone wrong here...
Why the hell should DG speak? There’s nothing he’s gonna say to make you happy. The only thing that comes of that is you and others ridiculing everything he says, parsing some innocuous quotes and making them some huge deal and requiring those comments for the next year. You have zero interest in what he has to say. You just want another pound of flesh and more reasons to bitch about him.
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve some/most of it, but him speaking serves no purpose other than to give fans more reasons to complain. Constantly. You don’t give a rats ass what he has to say. And you know it.
Gettleman's act probably isn't an act, that's just who he is. I can't imagine he's inspiring to work for or be around. I find him grating and foolish.
He's not the type to put himself out there regularly. He only comes out when he thinks he's got the ammo to be smug and tell the public how clever he was at doing something.
What's he going to say mid season? The coach I hired is a mess, the line I fixed is a disaster, and the defensive I hand picked is literally the worst in the league?
Exhibit A...
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
Exactly. And using the Knicks as an example?
Ehhhhh.
No, the Giants biggest issue is the silent guy's league worst defense and horrendous defense.
What matters is what they do on the field. Him telling me they know they have issues on the OL (or the OL isn't as bad as fans think) is just background noise.
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.
I wasn’t aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
[quote] What are they going to say? We are disappointed? That goes without saying.
Nothing good comes from making a statement at this point. Our record is our statement.
quote]. Cant State it any better than that
I can't remember any remarkable open press interviews with Accorsi, Reese, or Gettleman other than stuff like Accorsi's obsession with Bert Jones, Reese's dismissiveness, and Gettleman shtick.
I can't remember any remarkable open press interviews with Accorsi, Reese, or Gettleman other than stuff like Accorsi's obsession with Bert Jones, Reese's dismissiveness, and Gettleman shtick.
I had forgotten about those George Young interviews with the original Inside Football editor. Those were great! I also looked forward to them.
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In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.
I wasn’t aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
If Gettleman articulated a cogent plan and deep self awareness of where the team is and is going publicly, do you believe fans are more or less likely to spend money supporting the team? Do you believe Mara/Tisch are more likely to greenlight long-term, guaranteed dollars to the players he desires this offseason?
Having general management that can express himself and the situation of the team, the prospect of the existing talent, and lay out a confident, self-reflective vision can only help.
Ducking the media, and only speaking when he acquires players and kisses his own ass a little can only hurt.
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In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
Like in any business, if management can publicly express a self aware, reflective, and honest assessment of their operation, paying customers and investors feel more comfortable giving the business more money. No different for Gettleman.
I wasn’t aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
I understand this thinking completely, but they did mandate PSL's for the stadium. The value of those PSL's is now far less than when purchased.
Either way, any business succeeds when they have confidence in the CEO. not so much here right now.
DG gave an interview on the Williams trade to Michael Eisen of giants.com.
That's a Q and A press release, not facing the media.
DG has in fact been consistent as a GM in not talking to the media during the regular season, including the year Panthers were 15-1.
The article acknowledges that but does make an unsupported comment about Mara when it says that "Normally, Mara would have spoken by now."
That comment comes with a link to a Schwartz article from November of last year, but there are no in-season quotes from Mara in that article. The Schwartz article mentions how unhappy Mara was after the Jax loss in 2014 but Mara didn't talk about it publicly until after the season.
I'm not defending Gettleman. I just don't see the upside for the organization. Potential free agents and future coaches are not watching if Gettleman is holding a press conference during the bye week. This isn't even on their radar.
Give me silence.
Sometimes saying nothing is the better option.
I'm not defending Gettleman. I just don't see the upside for the organization. Potential free agents and future coaches are not watching if Gettleman is holding a press conference during the bye week. This isn't even on their radar.
Do you think the NFL at large views Gettleman and the Giants operation as well managed and on the right track right now? Why would it hurt if Gettleman was out in front, instilling some confidence and owning the situation publicly?
They've won seven games in two years. They are one of the worst teams in the NFL and were just beaten by one of the worst teams in the NFL. It may get worse if and when the Dolphins and Redskins beat them.
Holding a bye week presser, that few will pay attention to, isn't going to change the public perception of the organization.
The Giants are what their record says they are. They are who they have been as an organization - an organization that has fired a GM, VP of player evaluation, and two coaching staffs in the last few years. That's what people are paying attention to.
There’s nothing he can say that will make fans happy. He won’t talk about what he plans to do in FA to improve the team. He won’t talk about the draft.
For this fan, if Gettleman went out and said, the Giants are having a tough year, but they are committed to making tough decisions like elevating Jones, are excited about young players like Slayton, Lawrence, and others, that they will uncover every stone to bring in players like Williams, and that every person on the roster and staff will be held accountable over the next 7 games. I'd feel encouraged.
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The most concerning thing about the giants right now is DG’s silence. Gimme a break.
No, the Giants biggest issue is the silent guy's league worst defense and horrendous defense.
I agree but the article said my exact quote. And that is ridiculous and pointless, just like nearly everything from the sports media these days.
I wasn’t aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
I wasn't either...
It may get worse if and when the Dolphins and Redskins beat them.
Holding a bye week presser, that few will pay attention to, isn't going to change the public perception of the organization.
Right... and saying anything just creates more distractions for the team. At this point with the season over, I also hope they lose to the fins and skins. We need to finish dead last if we expect significant changes.
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I wasn’t aware the Giants were listed on the NYSE.
I wasn't either...
The guy manages a 150M a year budget and has his hands on a few times more in potential commitments.
Winning is the best way to generate revenue for the team.
Maybe the problem is the Giants don't operate like a publicly traded company in some respects?
Precisely.
He's arguably the person most responsible for this recent nightmare.
So he hides in the safety of the shadows. Letting others take it on the chin for his decisions.
Yeah.Very possible.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
So.
If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
So.
If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...
The Giants can bring out Reese to answer questions. According to many, it's still all his fault. Problem = solved.
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
So.
If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...
But, the owner and general manager does deal with the media when it is appropriate. At the end of the season, the draft and prior to the season. They do not need to give an in season account of the team. It serves no purpose and as mentioned, gettleman is not doing anything different from the way he has operated in the past (win or lose).
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In comment 14680820 Eric from BBI said:
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never really understood the need from some fans to hear from owners or general managers during the season.
They aren't going to say anything that is going to make you happy anyway.
So.
If the players and coaches have to deal with the media, then the people who actually picked these players should have to face the same media. What makes them so special? In these times where the product is poor and not competitive, those are the people I actually have the most interest in hearing from...
But, the owner and general manager does deal with the media when it is appropriate. At the end of the season, the draft and prior to the season. They do not need to give an in season account of the team. It serves no purpose and as mentioned, gettleman is not doing anything different from the way he has operated in the past (win or lose).
I get that. I’m not arguing about their decision to stay silent. What I take issue with are fans that don’t want to hear from the team and somehow believe that we (fans) are better off with less information. I can’t support that premise.
This team sucks from the top to the bottom.
We are deep into the 60’s and 70’s once again.
Like George Young back in the day who will lead this team in the future to glory.
Not Gettleman or Shurmur and no one trusts Mara either.
I'm okay with him being an asshole as long as next year the team has meaningful late December football.
But the more he shuts up- the more the media and fans are going to tear into him and Mara next year. This is Mara's hire. He knows what DG is. DG has a "screw you" attitude. If he wins - it's cool. He loses he'll get turned on big time next year. This year he's still fortunate enough to have excuses.
And there is no reason for the media to like him.
Anything besides that isn't with listening to.
Because you can't trust what he says.
If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
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What’s the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.
Because you can't trust what he says.
If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
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In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:
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What’s the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.
Because you can't trust what he says.
If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
That applies to any interview. So we should do interviews when the team is doing well, but if doing poorly they shouldn’t have to answer the questions? That makes no sense.
Nooo it doesn't. You are trying to change the narrative of my question and then exaggerating the point.
Not all GM's lie about the state of the team or lie to the degree Gettleman has.
Where did i say because the team stinks don't listen? I said because he's a liar and I cant trust a thing he says that I shouldn't listen. And i feel many feel the same way. I said I prefer to watch what he does.
DG made this bed with his over-the-top lying. Now as a fan being lied to much and extremely as DG has, you feel I should be "required" as a fan to listen to more of his lies? Huh???
Or the homers want to bury their heads in the sand.
OFc it's much of social media's fault the Giants suck.
It’s been mentioned many times in this thread, but apparently you’ve somehow missed them all. Gettleman has NEVER talked during the bye week. This includes his time in Carolina. So, yeah, you’re flat out wrong.
DG: Hi, howaya? Good to see everyone. To start I’ll say I’m disappointed with our record, as I know the players and coaches are too. We were hurt by some injuries, some rookie growing pains. I know we’re going to continue to improve, and for my part I continue to evaluate and add pieces where I think they can help us.
Q: Why do the Giants suck? Do you blame Shurmur?
DG: Well, I’m ultimately responsible (wink!) but I know Pat and his staff are working hard. We need to clean up some turnovers and cause more, too. But at this point we’re all in on winning out.
Q: Why can’t the D stop anyone, ever, at any time?
DG: Well, we have some young guys developing on the DL and outside. There are going to be some growing pains. I like how there has been no quit. I remember with Carolina once we were bad but got better, so that’s the idea here.
Q: Do you realize you’re team is worse than the Jets?
DG: Well, it was back and forth, and the Jets ate a storied franchise here going back to SB IIII, Namath, Klecko, Gastineau...and they play in a beautiful, stadium! At Carolina we lost to the Dolphins once but I’ve been doing this a long time and we got it fixed. We’ll get it done here.
Q: Do you think Bettcher should be let go given the D is last, or near last?
DG: Coach is working hard but we’ll address everything at the end of the season when I can defer decisions to later, at that time.
Q:How has Jones played?
DG: After he was stripped for yet another defensive TD, I blew chunks and it was full blown chunks love.
Ok fellas. Thanks.
Again you are trying to change the narrative. I said if you want to listen him go ahead. Yet you're "incredulous" for others that don't want to listen to him. SO for the many that don't you're trying to "butt your nose in" and give them a dig for not being the fan you want them to be (i.e. . imply "what kind of fan are you that doesn't want to hear the GM speak. I'm a good fan because I want to listen him.).
Secondly, I don't get your subject question. Didn't I say that not all GM's lie or at least not lie to the extent that DG has? How have you twisted that into - to paraphrase that I'm suggesting don't ever listen to ANY interview?
Third, when you say "But there is a reason organizations do these things."
You are IGNORING the fact that the OWNER KNEW what DG was. DG does NOT do this. If you want a GM that does this then DG isn't your guy. Mara hired him knowing very well DG doesn't do this.
Now let me ask you something. I'm asking if you could put yourself in the shoes of many of us who don't trust a thing DG says. If you do this - how can you NOT understand that if you completely don;t trust someone then why the hell should you waste your time listening to him? You know how he feels about these things and he's not going give you shit.
You feel you are getting "information" from DG fine. Many of us feel like we're getting "disinformation." I'd rather not have to hear or read "disinformation." By DG not speaking at these type of things while so many others have - doesn't this tell you he has no regard for things like this?
And un-importantly - the more he opens up his mouth on stuff like this - especially if he isn't interested- the more many of who dislike or hate him will hate him more for his arrogant and asinine comments. I for one would prefer to not hate him. I want to see him win.
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What’s the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.
Because you can't trust what he says.
If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
Then you don't have to watch it or read about it.
Whether he answers anything with substance or cliche or whatever, I think there are questions that can be posed to DG that he should be compelled to answer as a face of this franchise.
The game has evolved where fans are more in tune with the role management plays. And how those decisions by management, with cap/personnel, impact the quality of the product on the field.
In fact, I think it's the very least he can do. Mara as well.
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In comment 14681007 UberAlias said:
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What’s the point in ever having any interviews ever? Or are we saying interviews when team is doing well = good, when the team is doing bad they = not good? Makes no sense.
Because you can't trust what he says.
If you want to trust what he says - that's your business. I think you're being awful gullible and naive to pay attention. I prefer to watch what he does.
Then you don't have to watch it or read about it.
I don't actively seek it out but when I have the tV and some analyst or commentator will mention what DG said. Or what I hear on the radio or when we argue about points some posters will quote what DG said bringing what he said into the discussion. In fact I took an idiotic quote of his that another poster posted and used it for sometime to show what a liar and ass he was.
Anyhow, tt was the poster uberalias that asked the question of those of us that don't give a shit what he has to say - if we only listen to DG if the team was going good and not bad.
I replied ot thta and told him that for many of us that we don;t give a shit what a liar and ass has to say.
You want to believe him or play some mind games trying to decipher what he means or just want to laugh at the asshole- be my guest.
Just don't get incredulous for those of us that want to see what he does and no longer give a shit what he says.
Even if we are shareholders (and the Giants are not a public company. So not even that level of alleged "accountability") can we do much more than write a letter to Investor Relations and get a form letter back?
They are in the privately owned entertainment business. We can only vote by not going to their movies. As Giant fans had to do once before to get things to change at the top.
Only language they understand.
You want to believe him or play some mind games trying to decipher what he means or just want to laugh at the asshole- be my guest.
Just don't get incredulous for those of us that want to see what he does and no longer give a shit what he says.
I've seen what he does. And it's less than impressive.
But if you need to see more, my guess is you'll be given that opportunity because I doubt DG is going anywhere.
So the poor product will likely continue...
If offense and defense both flop, I can't imagine the current staff surviving. Shurmur might survive if somehow they can blame the offense's problems on DJ's rookie growing pains. That seems unlikely.
If the offense flops and the defense shows improvement, Shurmur probably goes, and Bettcher probably goes with him. Maybe, if the defense dominates for the last seven games, they could survive that. Also unlikely.
If the offense is better and the defense flops, and Jones shows improvement, Shurmur probably survives but Bettcher is probably gone. Also Shurmur probably has to make some changes, like giving up play calling and hiring a QB coach. They could argue he has too much on his plate right now. That has the advantage of probably being true.
If the offense and defense both improve, they don't go 1-6. That sure would be nice, huh.
It's not a tragedy. He's going to stay quiet, resurface in January. He'll have something cute to say. He'll do the opposite.
He's a little old, but even the old have a chance every day to self assess, critique, and do it a little better the next go.
Does self assess, critique, and then most importantly do it a little better feel like what Dave is all about? That's the big question.
Let me rephrase. No matter the age, there's always a chance for practicing more personal wisdom. Whether Dave can do so this offseason will be critical in his future employment and the immediate term success of the Giants.
The only conclusion one could draw was that ownership requested it as a measure of goodwill with the public. Considering they had been doing it for 20+ years, that would mean that it was happening under Wellington Mara and then continued under John.
But then, all of a sudden they hire Gettleman and he shuts that down with the blessing of ownership? Why was he suddenly given this exemption?
Off season it's the GM.
He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.
It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.
(cant tell you how many posts I wish I could re phrase to reflect what I really meant. Not really a form of communication where most of us work to polish what we write)
Off season it's the GM.
He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.
It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.
good post
Judge DG by his actions. I could care less about what he says or when.
Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and ‘stay invested’ in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems aren’t as bad as anyone thinks?
Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.
You basically re-stated the point.
The Giants are not accountable to fans and do not explain why the team is bad...at best they express "sympathy" and insist they will do better in the future.
They sure don't explain their rationale in a way anyone can depend on.
Off season it's the GM.
He wouldn't say anything that would undermine the HC. He's not going to honestly answer any questions as to why the team sucks.
It would just be a public relations affair. If you want to argue whether he should do it for PR purposes, have at it. Highly unlikely you're ever going to get answers to the questions you want asked, no matter what time of year it is, and certainly not in season.
Apparently Wellington Mara disagreed with you that HC is face in-season and GM is off-season. Where does your stance on that come from anyway? Also, are you saying there can only be one face at a time? How does that jive with owners being consistent faces of the team during in-season and off-season? I don't get confused when I hear from GM's in-season. I'm not clear what you find so confusing about it?
In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and ‘stay invested’ in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems aren’t as bad as anyone thinks?
Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.
A publicly traded company is under no obligation to bring out certain members of the executive committee and field questions during an earnings call, they do it because they want to instill confidence in their stakeholders (owners) and customers (fans).
Sony definitely makes their executive committee available on earnings calls, and their filmmakers available for press junkets. If a film sucks, the filmmakers hear it.
In all practicality, the Giants do make the equivalent of the filmmaker available for hard questions. The coaches answer questions to the press all of the time.
Do film goers make their decisions on what films to see because the Chief Media Officer of Sony fields questions? Probably not. Do they get a little reassurance that their favorite franchise or series is going to be a priority and get them excited to give Sony their money? Absolutely.
In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
That has been status quo for some time - when Reese did it, the complaints were that his press conferences didn't say anything. With Gettleman, he just skips it altogether and people get miffed he didn't speak.
At the end of the day - the team stinks, and there's really nothing anyone can say that will give someone solace. You either believe that these guys are the right guys to fix the problem and they have some clue how to get there, or you don't. No amount of talk is going to change that.
Personally, I'm just glad we don't have a new folksy catchphrase to have rehashed 10,000 times over. No more bags of donuts or pretzels, no more hog mollies. Just fix the damn team.
The Giants are not accountable to fans and do not explain why the team is bad...at best they express "sympathy" and insist they will do better in the future.
They sure don't explain their rationale in a way anyone can depend on.
I’m guessing you don’t listen to investor calls often. The goal of an investor call is to explain financial results and how the company is proceeding in the future. It is not to express sympathy and promise to do better next time. That statement is wildly wrong.
So continuing with the analogy, you would expect DG to come out and explain the causes for the 2-8 record and both the short and long term response to improve results? If so, you don’t listen to many football press conference either.
But please...do continue.
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With a publicly traded company and the need to talk to investors? That may be a new standard in poor analogies.
Fans will suddenly feel better about being Giants fans and ‘stay invested’ in the team because DG says they are working to fix the problems, or the problems aren’t as bad as anyone thinks?
Investors are owners. Fans are not. That would be like seeing a bad movie and insisting the director hold a press conference to explain his poor directorial decisions so that people would see his next movie.
A publicly traded company is under no obligation to bring out certain members of the executive committee and field questions during an earnings call, they do it because they want to instill confidence in their stakeholders (owners) and customers (fans).
Sony definitely makes their executive committee available on earnings calls, and their filmmakers available for press junkets. If a film sucks, the filmmakers hear it.
In all practicality, the Giants do make the equivalent of the filmmaker available for hard questions. The coaches answer questions to the press all of the time.
Do film goers make their decisions on what films to see because the Chief Media Officer of Sony fields questions? Probably not. Do they get a little reassurance that their favorite franchise or series is going to be a priority and get them excited to give Sony their money? Absolutely.
Press junkets are PR events that happen prior to a movies release. They are not done to explain to the public why the movie succeeded or didn’t.
If the analogy was to be as simple as “someone goes before the press to talk about something of interest to the public,” then yes...exact same thing.
Gettleman just didn't realize he needed to start that process right off the bat, and as a result his early communications were a bit verbose & ladened with arrogance...
If the analogy was to be as simple as “someone goes before the press to talk about something of interest to the public,” then yes...exact same thing.
Do you believe the utility of the post-game press conference for the NFL with the coach and players is more to:
1) say something of interest to the public
or:
2) fuel the sports media with information about an entertainment event to ensure there is media coverage of the event
Now, what do you believe the utility of a press junket is?
Do you believe the utility of corporate officers joining an IR call is
1) to be an authority on the legal and regulatory obligations of their 10 k filings
or
2) be the face of the success and/or failure of the organization and engage with their customers and investors
Shareholders are owners of a public entity. Management is accountable to them and has legal and fiduciary responsibilities to account for their actions and results.
A football team has no obligation to fans that choose to follow them. They do it for entertainment purposes only. They have no legal responsibility to account for themselves to anyone other than the team owners.
We said the same things and agree on the points you are making
Did from the start.
I’m guessing you don’t listen to investor calls often. The goal of an investor call is to explain financial results and how the company is proceeding in the future. It is not to express sympathy and promise to do better next time. That statement is wildly wrong.
I've listened to plenty of investor calls. If a company misses their target, they will indeed explain why. And in great detail because investors definitely want to know why. I work in healthcare. If we miss target we will go into many details - flu season, unexpected large claims, higher than expected utilization, etc.
If a company had an issue where something that went seriously wrong, like a Chipotle having a food contamination problem, they will express regret, apologize, and explain how they are fixing the problem.
So those calls are much more than simply talking about financials and offering/confirming guidance.
Hence the contrast with an entity that is/has to be more responsible vs one that is unaccountable.
That's the point and the only point. We should not expect any different from a second generation family hobby/business.
We said the same things and agree on the points you are making
Did from the start.
I misunderstood your original post, Bill2. When I go back and read it in that light I see it now. My apologies.
We should run for office.
In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.
Shareholders are owners of a public entity. Management is accountable to them and has legal and fiduciary responsibilities to account for their actions and results.
A football team has no obligation to fans that choose to follow them. They do it for entertainment purposes only. They have no legal responsibility to account for themselves to anyone other than the team owners.
A team has no obligation to fans? Wow
We spent considerable resources on market, investor, and especially consumer sentiment and built and modeled everything, every outcome.
The regulatory and fiduciary responsibilities are typically satisfied by filing reports to the relevant agencies, posting them online, and post marking hard copies for investors.
You don't have to publicly tell a compelling story of why money is invested in a certain way. You don't have to level for your mistakes, paint a picture of the future, justify why hard times now are the seeds of good times later. You don't have to go on CNBC after. You don't have to give a shit. Just drop the tables, and say when the dividend will be deposited.
But it's crazy, when you treat your customers and investors like intellectual equals, some portion of them will be compelled. That's what the data said anyway. Some will spend their money with you when times are tough because they believe things will turn around. Not all, just some. That's the reason it's a production and not prepared remarks and an email.
The Giants are worth ~25% more than the Jets. Same share of the stadium, same metro area, same TV deal. Giants fans give a shit, even when the team sucks. The Giants have gained trust with their fans. If the Giants lose that, and become the Jets, they can probably guess what a floor for their value is.
So sure, not a perfect analogy, and the Giants aren't obligated to do anything, but they better start winning, or convincing their fans they are going to. They already look like the Jets on the field, Mara doesn't want his accounts to look like them too.
Quote:
could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.
In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.
Gettleman didn't "postpone" anything, and certainly not the midseason address.
He doesn't hold them. Didn't in Carolina, either.
This is basically another way to criticize him for something he's not doing differently in good or bad times.
Quote:
In comment 14681484 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
could have predicted exactly the way this thread has gone.
In short, a guy can say nothing, still get criticized and people voicing those complaints think they are actually making solid points.
If you're a leader and only speak when things are going well or going in a way that is something you can spin positively then you can certainly be criticized for that. Surely no one is arguing that management leaders shouldn't inform their stakeholders about the status of their business. If Gettlemen said he was postponing the midseason address until after the season because he didn't want to talk specifics when the team was still playing and he gave a commitment to a time period for giving that address, then sure, go ahead and make the argument he's being tactical about how he speaks. Until he makes and fulfills that commitment he gives the perception and actually is, in fact, merely avoiding answering for his work's losing outcome.
Gettleman didn't "postpone" anything, and certainly not the midseason address.
He doesn't hold them. Didn't in Carolina, either.
This is basically another way to criticize him for something he's not doing differently in good or bad times.
No one asked what he did in Carolina. He's a Giant now. Giant GMs traditionally hold midseason pressers. He's not holding one. That's not artificially creating a reason to criticize him. He is actually not doing something that Giant GMs do - and he's doing it without the balls of actually owning it.
People pay real money to go to these games. It's not asking a lot to make the same press conference appearance other GMs do, and that players and coaches are obligated to do.
Jesus Christ.
He's still going to be accountable - he's just not serving up a fluff shit sandwich
i don't really care what he did or didn't do in Carolina. it's crazy all the people on here who defend him this way and that and then think that it's too hard for him to put on his big boy pants and talk to the NY press corps. i don't expect him to tell me all his plans, or to throw Shurmur under the bus, but it would be nice to actually have him answer a question or two from someone other than the Giants in-house propaganda voice about the Leonard Williams trade. or maybe give some honest opinion about how well he thinks he's doing his job. he gave an interview with SI in the preseason in which he told us fans to trust him and his staff because they've been around a while and know what they're doing. he said he's been to a lot of Superbowls and he knows what a Superbowl team looks like. now we're halfway through another terrible season and a lot of us are very skeptical. share some thoughts, Dave. help us understand how you see the state of the Giants. or maybe show some humility. you're paid a lot of money to be one of the faces of this organization. 22 year-old DeAndre Baker can stand up and talk to reporters analyzing his mistakes after every rough game but Gettleman can't speak once a year? give me a break
They won't know exactly what the point is of it, but they demand it!!
i don't really care what he did or didn't do in Carolina. it's crazy all the people on here who defend him this way and that and then think that it's too hard for him to put on his big boy pants and talk to the NY press corps. i don't expect him to tell me all his plans, or to throw Shurmur under the bus, but it would be nice to actually have him answer a question or two from someone other than the Giants in-house propaganda voice about the Leonard Williams trade. or maybe give some honest opinion about how well he thinks he's doing his job. he gave an interview with SI in the preseason in which he told us fans to trust him and his staff because they've been around a while and know what they're doing. he said he's been to a lot of Superbowls and he knows what a Superbowl team looks like. now we're halfway through another terrible season and a lot of us are very skeptical. share some thoughts, Dave. help us understand how you see the state of the Giants. or maybe show some humility. you're paid a lot of money to be one of the faces of this organization. 22 year-old DeAndre Baker can stand up and talk to reporters analyzing his mistakes after every rough game but Gettleman can't speak once a year? give me a break
Indeed. Gettleman is 100% responsible for the players, the HC, and the team's record.
Yet it is amazing many are so comfortable with a person with such power hiding away in the Giants Way Witness Protection Program.
If we were winning and competing I'd be fine with this incognito approach. But when we are entering another wasted season the very least this guy can do is face the gauntlet of the NY and national press.
They won't know exactly what the point is of it, but they demand it!!
well, i don't know what the morons need. you seem to have a better grip on that. but sophisticated fans actually expect the GM to be able to speak coherently about the current state of his team, comment on how he evaluates what he has done so far, and give us some idea of his plans going forward and what he expects to see. those are not state secrets. and since no one seems to dispute that he does speak to the press when it suits him, I'm not sure what the defense against speaking midseason - as Giant GMs historically have done -is exactly. that it will hurt their playoff chances? that he doesn't have to so nyah nyah nyah?
So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.
So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.
So I'll stick with the moron angle. It fits this topic pretty damn well.
Yep, everyone but you is a moron.
There are a lot of good posters on BBI.
There are also a lot of morons.
- Will evaluate Rivera after the season
- Will evaluate the GM after the season
- Will evaluate Cam when he's healthy
- Will not accept mediocrity
- Will take short term losing seasons to build a long-term contender
In short - nothing changed from yesterday to today.
But he talked to reporters. That's the exercise many of you want from Gettleman.