From what I hear he is a next level prospect. Plays in the same conference and blocks front side for left handed Tua. If he is available in round 2 or trade up into back end of round 1, it might be better use or resources.
Get a front 7 defender maybe Young with our 1st rounder, come back with Leatherwood.
From what I hear he is a next level prospect. Plays in the same conference and blocks front side for left handed Tua. If he is available in round 2 or trade up into back end of round 1, it might be better use or resources.
Get a front 7 defender maybe Young with our 1st rounder, come back with Leatherwood.
Leatherwood is playing LT for the first time this year - doing well. Better than expected.
Still think he is a James Carpenter type guard. A good starter for several years.
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
He's a superior athlete with a big body. He's not as strong as Thomas, but his athleticism jumps off the screen. He reminds me of a Jason Peters (when he was young) or Lane Johnson.
RE: RE: Sy’ Thomas seems to have no power on his deep set Â
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
RE: RE: RE: Sy’ Thomas seems to have no power on his deep set Â
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
The biggest thing the Giants will have to overcome with the next hire will be the perception that the organization is in disarray and they will bail on a new HC quickly. Firing Shurmur so quickly isn't going to herlp that perception even though it is necessary.
RE: Sy’ Thomas seems to have no power on his deep set Â
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
I think balance is the issue - his power is there. As seen the amount of times he, with one arm, completely stifles Marlon Davidson, one of the top power EDGE guys in the country.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sy’ Thomas seems to have no power on his deep set Â
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
The biggest thing the Giants will have to overcome with the next hire will be the perception that the organization is in disarray and they will bail on a new HC quickly. Firing Shurmur so quickly isn't going to herlp that perception even though it is necessary.
That’s a good point, but anyone who has taken a look at our last 2 head coaches should 100% understand why
RE: RE: Sy’ Thomas seems to have no power on his deep set Â
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
I think balance is the issue - his power is there. As seen the amount of times he, with one arm, completely stifles Marlon Davidson, one of the top power EDGE guys in the country.
Is that correctable? I notice on plays where he goes forward his guy usually winds up on the ground, so power is clearly there.
He's a superior athlete with a big body. He's not as strong as Thomas, but his athleticism jumps off the screen. He reminds me of a Jason Peters (when he was young) or Lane Johnson.
There are footwork issues, absolutely. But 2 things:
Gap between RT and LT is near non-existent these days when it comes to NFL scouts and Personnel guys. NFL defenses are sending speed on both sides. LT will always be slightly more important because it is the blind side...but not what it was.
Thomas lumbers but I don't think it is athletically based. He shows, especially on secondary contact if he gets beat initially, that the foot speed is there. He just needs technique work
Sounds like Eric Flowers! We have had enough of those kinda guys!
Sounds like Eric Flowers! We have had enough of those kinda guys!
Most college OT's need a lot of technique work. Ereck Flowers had some of the worst technique of any player in that draft. I wouldn't compare the two at all.
If you take a OT at #3 you expect a pro bowl tackle. That’s not unreasonable.
Absolutely, I desperately want OT help but there is no player I want more than Chase Young. He is going to transform a defense. I just hope the Giants are lucky enough to have him on the board at their pick.
He's a superior athlete with a big body. He's not as strong as Thomas, but his athleticism jumps off the screen. He reminds me of a Jason Peters (when he was young) or Lane Johnson.
Be nice if he played LT.
Unless it turns out he's blind in one eye, a move to LT shouldn't be an issue. I've watched him against MICH, WISC, and MINN. I think he's better than Thomas.
Would be fine in the 2nd round to groom until Solder benches himself.
He’s somewhat raw and makes some bonehead mistakes from time to time. Today I saw a play where here was standing up and didn’t even know the ball was snapped. Saw another play where he took a terrible angle pulling and ran right into the back.
Despite that he plays pretty low and moves his feet decently. Got good push in the running game today.
If it’s between Thomas and Wanogho I’d take Wanogho in the 2nd every time over Thomas top 5.
Thomas has too many flaws in his game. I don’t care about his potential. I’m not taking a guy top 5 if a litany of shit needs to be fixed for him to be a good player.
At this point I’m in the Young or trade down camp. Young is the only guy who makes sense for the Giants top 5 and if he’s gone they might as well trade down and pick up value for the pick.
Ideally we would land Chase Young in round 1 and either Wanogho or Meki Becton in round 2. I just pray that Hal Hunter isn't the OL coach next year especially since they are likely to take an OT high in the draft. I have no confidence in his ability to develop a young offensive lineman.
There is more than one formula to build a winning roster. Trading down is tricky, you can outsmart yourself. You better be damn sure you can land a difference maker if you move down. Impact players are a necessity to hoisting championship hardware. Beware of passing on such a player if they are in your grasp.
Agree. Fans tend to overvalue draft picks.
You look at the Herschel Walker trade, which brought back a haul for Dallas, and it made the Cowboys. But if you look at the Eric Dickerson trade, which brought back a haul for the Rams, those picks were a big fizzle. It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you draft badly. And if you draft well, you don't necessarily need a haul.
Sounds like Eric Flowers! We have had enough of those kinda guys!
Most college OT's need a lot of technique work. Ereck Flowers had some of the worst technique of any player in that draft. I wouldn't compare the two at all.
IIRC, Flowers had some red flags regarding his work ethic and ability to take to coaching. Technique issues are often correctable, IF the player puts in the work.
Thomas is a good Left Tackle but agree he doesn't show the Â
There is more than one formula to build a winning roster. Trading down is tricky, you can outsmart yourself. You better be damn sure you can land a difference maker if you move down. Impact players are a necessity to hoisting championship hardware. Beware of passing on such a player if they are in your grasp.
Agree. Fans tend to overvalue draft picks.
You look at the Herschel Walker trade, which brought back a haul for Dallas, and it made the Cowboys. But if you look at the Eric Dickerson trade, which brought back a haul for the Rams, those picks were a big fizzle. It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you draft badly. And if you draft well, you don't necessarily need a haul.
Don't even have to go that far back.
Chargers got a haul in the Eli trade. At best (for them), the trade was a push and that's solely due to Rivers.
Even worse is the Browns return for the #2 overall pick (Wentz). Note that some of the original picks the Browns received were subsequently dealt for other picks:
Corey Coleman - bust, now on Giants IR
Shon Coleman - hasn't played since 2017
DeShone Kizer - GB backup, no active games in 2019
Cody Kessler - NE?, no active games in 2019
Derrick Kindred - current FA
Spencer Drango - out of league?
Ricardo Louis - Dolphins IR
Jordan Payton - out of league
Jabrill Peppers - traded to NYG, solid player
Denzel Ward - stud CB
Chad Thomas - Ok, rotational player
So basically in exchange for a franchise QB, the Browns got a stud CB, solid SS that ended up being the 2nd/3rd piece in the Beckham deal*, and a rotational DE. And Wentz had 2 seasons under his belt before Ward was picked.
I think trading down 10-15 picks often makes sense, but if you have a chance at a true stud, I think you need to take it. Look at what Mack did for the Bears D last year or Bosa for the 49ers this year.
I think when you get to the mid-late 1st round and the talent level is flatter, you should look to trade back 10-15 spots and pick up some extra capital. For example, I'd consider trading our high 2nd round pick for the 2nd and 3rd round picks of a team picking in the middle of the round.
Picking a left tackle very high in the draft until you first try a sensible O line method and integrate run/pass.
Whereas on D the great skills player impact immediately is easier to see in almost any system.
Fans tend to be miopic, this time of year or by Spring, regarding top ten picks.
Whereas impact players can be had in any round and especially before pick 42, or so, and those often can be considered potential first rounders.
It's simply not the case that "impact" applies only to left tackle, QB, edge and WR.
Add inside lb, free safety, tight end (unusual but possible ) among others to that list.
I don't know if 'need' is the word . It's 'opportunity for improvement '.
So, what type of run blocking are you planning going forward? That obviously effects your choice of players. It's not a given that we stick with this system at all.
If on D, are there dback unit method changes in the works if you get a game changer?
Tight end, can you integrate a different type to broaden the playbook ?
The Packers and Pat's also have very specific set of O line coaches and methods that are hard to replicate .
Is it still a worthwhile project?
If not, or including that project, if so, but no longer limited to:
Isn't zone ala shanny or last week's vikes more easily replicable? If so, who needs to coach the line and offense and - can our current roster pull it off? Each unit member would be evaluated for get up and balance etc or whatever the abilities are. And spots that cannot become free agency or draft targets?
Non of that screams first round or top ten picks needed.
Golden has added the sacks I would have expected from Josh Allen, if we can re-sign him and draft the pass rusher of your dreams it will do wonders for the defense alone. Pick up an LB or two in FA and get healthy and the front 7 should be fixed.
IIRC, Flowers had some red flags regarding his work ethic and ability to take to coaching. Technique issues are often correctable, IF the player puts in the work.
After the Giants drafted him someone posted a quote from an NFL scout where he said that Flowers had the worst technique of any drafted player he had ever seen. I don't remember any concerns about his work ethic at the time but I could be wrong.
Get a front 7 defender maybe Young with our 1st rounder, come back with Leatherwood.
I don’t see how Thomas > Chase
On the contrary - Wanogho looks legit
Get a front 7 defender maybe Young with our 1st rounder, come back with Leatherwood.
Leatherwood is playing LT for the first time this year - doing well. Better than expected.
Still think he is a James Carpenter type guard. A good starter for several years.
On the contrary - Wanogho looks legit
Agree. Wanogho plays with a great base.
He moved so well for a big person
He is so strong at the pint and has great hands
Feet seem light
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
ding ding
This kid is going to struggle with speed rushers at the next level.
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Quote:
Is that a technique issue or physical issue?
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
Quote:
In comment 14681111 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Is that a technique issue or physical issue?
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
The biggest thing the Giants will have to overcome with the next hire will be the perception that the organization is in disarray and they will bail on a new HC quickly. Firing Shurmur so quickly isn't going to herlp that perception even though it is necessary.
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
I think balance is the issue - his power is there. As seen the amount of times he, with one arm, completely stifles Marlon Davidson, one of the top power EDGE guys in the country.
Quote:
In comment 14681114 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14681111 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Is that a technique issue or physical issue?
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
The real motivation would be to them the loser has to take the Giants job...
Praying that having a good young QB, Saquon, a high draft pick and a bunch of cap space actually makes this a desirable job. Remember Rhule coached here too.
The biggest thing the Giants will have to overcome with the next hire will be the perception that the organization is in disarray and they will bail on a new HC quickly. Firing Shurmur so quickly isn't going to herlp that perception even though it is necessary.
That’s a good point, but anyone who has taken a look at our last 2 head coaches should 100% understand why
Quote:
Is that a technique issue or physical issue?
Also throwing in there that the Giants should make it interesting and tell the winning coach of the Oklahoma vs Baylor game that they win the Giants head coaching job next year..
I think balance is the issue - his power is there. As seen the amount of times he, with one arm, completely stifles Marlon Davidson, one of the top power EDGE guys in the country.
Is that correctable? I notice on plays where he goes forward his guy usually winds up on the ground, so power is clearly there.
Be nice if he played LT.
Quote:
Lumbering, average feet when I watch him.
There are footwork issues, absolutely. But 2 things:
Gap between RT and LT is near non-existent these days when it comes to NFL scouts and Personnel guys. NFL defenses are sending speed on both sides. LT will always be slightly more important because it is the blind side...but not what it was.
Thomas lumbers but I don't think it is athletically based. He shows, especially on secondary contact if he gets beat initially, that the foot speed is there. He just needs technique work
Sounds like Eric Flowers! We have had enough of those kinda guys!
Most college OT's need a lot of technique work. Ereck Flowers had some of the worst technique of any player in that draft. I wouldn't compare the two at all.
Absolutely, I desperately want OT help but there is no player I want more than Chase Young. He is going to transform a defense. I just hope the Giants are lucky enough to have him on the board at their pick.
Quote:
He's a superior athlete with a big body. He's not as strong as Thomas, but his athleticism jumps off the screen. He reminds me of a Jason Peters (when he was young) or Lane Johnson.
Be nice if he played LT.
Unless it turns out he's blind in one eye, a move to LT shouldn't be an issue. I've watched him against MICH, WISC, and MINN. I think he's better than Thomas.
Quote:
Lumbering, average feet when I watch him.
Agreed.
Yup.
I was thinking the same thing.
He’s somewhat raw and makes some bonehead mistakes from time to time. Today I saw a play where here was standing up and didn’t even know the ball was snapped. Saw another play where he took a terrible angle pulling and ran right into the back.
Despite that he plays pretty low and moves his feet decently. Got good push in the running game today.
If it’s between Thomas and Wanogho I’d take Wanogho in the 2nd every time over Thomas top 5.
Thomas has too many flaws in his game. I don’t care about his potential. I’m not taking a guy top 5 if a litany of shit needs to be fixed for him to be a good player.
At this point I’m in the Young or trade down camp. Young is the only guy who makes sense for the Giants top 5 and if he’s gone they might as well trade down and pick up value for the pick.
You look at the Herschel Walker trade, which brought back a haul for Dallas, and it made the Cowboys. But if you look at the Eric Dickerson trade, which brought back a haul for the Rams, those picks were a big fizzle. It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you draft badly. And if you draft well, you don't necessarily need a haul.
Shitty feet and zero bend. He’s almost standing straight up in his 2 point stance.
Poor leverage. He has bad habits that will get him destroyed in the NFL.
I want no part of Thomas in the top 5.
It sounds like you know more than Sy. Please share your analysis on all draftable OL prospects. Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Sounds like Eric Flowers! We have had enough of those kinda guys!
Most college OT's need a lot of technique work. Ereck Flowers had some of the worst technique of any player in that draft. I wouldn't compare the two at all.
IIRC, Flowers had some red flags regarding his work ethic and ability to take to coaching. Technique issues are often correctable, IF the player puts in the work.
Auburn has a very strong D-line.
My question is, if Chase Young is gone, are you going with Andrew Thomas(or the best OT), or would you put Isaiah Simmons?
Quote:
There is more than one formula to build a winning roster. Trading down is tricky, you can outsmart yourself. You better be damn sure you can land a difference maker if you move down. Impact players are a necessity to hoisting championship hardware. Beware of passing on such a player if they are in your grasp.
Agree. Fans tend to overvalue draft picks.
You look at the Herschel Walker trade, which brought back a haul for Dallas, and it made the Cowboys. But if you look at the Eric Dickerson trade, which brought back a haul for the Rams, those picks were a big fizzle. It doesn't matter how many picks you have if you draft badly. And if you draft well, you don't necessarily need a haul.
Don't even have to go that far back.
Chargers got a haul in the Eli trade. At best (for them), the trade was a push and that's solely due to Rivers.
Even worse is the Browns return for the #2 overall pick (Wentz). Note that some of the original picks the Browns received were subsequently dealt for other picks:
Corey Coleman - bust, now on Giants IR
Shon Coleman - hasn't played since 2017
DeShone Kizer - GB backup, no active games in 2019
Cody Kessler - NE?, no active games in 2019
Derrick Kindred - current FA
Spencer Drango - out of league?
Ricardo Louis - Dolphins IR
Jordan Payton - out of league
Jabrill Peppers - traded to NYG, solid player
Denzel Ward - stud CB
Chad Thomas - Ok, rotational player
So basically in exchange for a franchise QB, the Browns got a stud CB, solid SS that ended up being the 2nd/3rd piece in the Beckham deal*, and a rotational DE. And Wentz had 2 seasons under his belt before Ward was picked.
I think trading down 10-15 picks often makes sense, but if you have a chance at a true stud, I think you need to take it. Look at what Mack did for the Bears D last year or Bosa for the 49ers this year.
I think when you get to the mid-late 1st round and the talent level is flatter, you should look to trade back 10-15 spots and pick up some extra capital. For example, I'd consider trading our high 2nd round pick for the 2nd and 3rd round picks of a team picking in the middle of the round.
Whereas on D the great skills player impact immediately is easier to see in almost any system.
Fans tend to be miopic, this time of year or by Spring, regarding top ten picks.
Whereas impact players can be had in any round and especially before pick 42, or so, and those often can be considered potential first rounders.
It's simply not the case that "impact" applies only to left tackle, QB, edge and WR.
Add inside lb, free safety, tight end (unusual but possible ) among others to that list.
I don't know if 'need' is the word . It's 'opportunity for improvement '.
So, what type of run blocking are you planning going forward? That obviously effects your choice of players. It's not a given that we stick with this system at all.
If on D, are there dback unit method changes in the works if you get a game changer?
Tight end, can you integrate a different type to broaden the playbook ?
In the limitations of our current ones.
Halapio - balance and get up may not match zone blocking.
Pully, too small for Macadoo ball vanilla or just not that good .
Tight ends, too light to take a spot in inline blocking on zone schemes.
Or maybe it's coaching .
Not sure you draft a left tackle early and all that changes.
Please make it happen!!!
It's not just Aaron Rodgers and Tpm Brady.
The Packers and Pat's also have very specific set of O line coaches and methods that are hard to replicate .
Is it still a worthwhile project?
If not, or including that project, if so, but no longer limited to:
Isn't zone ala shanny or last week's vikes more easily replicable? If so, who needs to coach the line and offense and - can our current roster pull it off? Each unit member would be evaluated for get up and balance etc or whatever the abilities are. And spots that cannot become free agency or draft targets?
Non of that screams first round or top ten picks needed.
Well, we need that too!
In comment 14681392 M.S. said:
Quote:
The only player I want more is Chase Young.
Please make it happen!!!
Reminds me of "The Fortune Cookie."
IIRC, Flowers had some red flags regarding his work ethic and ability to take to coaching. Technique issues are often correctable, IF the player puts in the work.
After the Giants drafted him someone posted a quote from an NFL scout where he said that Flowers had the worst technique of any drafted player he had ever seen. I don't remember any concerns about his work ethic at the time but I could be wrong.
Quote:
The only player I want more is Chase Young.
Please make it happen!!!
The Redskins will fuck us. They will land the 2nd overall pick and take Young.
Quote:
Lumbering, average feet when I watch him.
Well, we need that too!
Yes, but it would be far from an ideal use of a very high #1 draft pick. That's where a lot of fans need to catch up on using picks properly.