I just read this on Big blue View. it seems to sorta go against the changes advocated on this forum. I agree wholehearted with the scouts and have said as much.
However I don't have to like what is happening but in my view to change anything now is to muddy the water. I have to think that at least one more season and maybe two before real progress as a team will be seen. Building through the draft takes time.
Draft the right players, get them ready and have them get accustomed to the NFL.
If it was easy every team would be vying for a playoff spot.
"Building these things takes time," said one NFL source who has watched the Giants extensively this season. "Everybody wants the quick fix. But that doesn't always happen. And when it does it's not sustainable. You build through several drafts, several years, and it's not always smooth. At least that's the way it is when you do it right."
Another view:
“They’ve built up a nice base of young talent,” said one NFC scout. “They’ve obviously got their QB for the next 10 years. There’s probably no stud player there other than Barkley. They need to find that game-wrecker on defense. But some of these guys are going to be a good supporting cast as they grow.”
But yes, they need to hit the next couple of drafts out of the park to turn it around.
The only comparable deficiency is at LT. If we can fill one of these with our inevitable Top 5 pick and one in Free Agency we can accelerate the rebuild. If not we're looking at 2021 before we return to competitive respectability. It should be doable.
continue to add pieces at LB, Safety, and Online.
either way there are a lot of building blocks in the top 5 of this coming draft
The coaches need wins to keep their jobs.
The Giants must be in top 3...or better
But by all means, give him another shot next year to go 5-11 again. That's in the best interests of the franchise.
LOL !! 10 years??
ok then, for the next 9 years I am going to run fishing charters on Sunday. See you guys in 2029
continue to add pieces at LB, Safety, and Online.
either way there are a lot of building blocks in the top 5 of this coming draft
We'd need to somehow be worse than Washington to get to #2 - and even then that might not be enough if the Bengals still like their QBs.
... until this coaching staff is replaced. Starting with Pat Shurmur.
Rookie QBs on bad teams rarely have success as measured in W/Ls.
The few rookie QBs that were successful typically had great supporting casts.
I can't stand the idea that the QB position should just be bequeathed to a guy for X years. Every player on the roster should be fighting for their job every year...a good GM should constantly be searching to improve upon his players, and making them earn their jobs every season.
I can't stand the idea that the QB position should just be bequeathed to a guy for X years. Every player on the roster should be fighting for their job every year...a good GM should constantly be searching to improve upon his players, and making them earn their jobs every season.
How many “good GMs” are constantly drafting QBs to fight for the job of their established QBs? I’m not saying Jones is established yet, but since you’ve brought this up several times now, who are all these great GMs doing this?
For a guy that is absolutely obsessed with resource allocation, it is mind numbing that you think drafting a QB with high draft picks every season is a good idea just so you can say the QB position wasn’t “bequeathed”. If the QB sucks, he’ll be replaced.
It doesn’t have to be a high pick, but a QB should be selected every year. Or at a minimum signing one that wasn’t drafted.
Now, I like stability at the position. So I’m less about the competition aspect and more about developing numerous assets at the QB slot. This not only creates much needed depth, but also trade assets.
Well drafting one every year and drafting them to compete for the starting job as you’re suggesting are two completely different things. Wolf never drafted a QB higher than the 4th round (Aaron Brooks) with the Packers. The rest were even lower. He wasn’t drafting them to threaten Favres job. Favre was “bequeathed”. He drafted them to compete as backups and to hopefully turn them into assets down the road. That’s smart. But it had nothing to do with making Favre uncomfortable and compete for his job
It doesn’t have to be a high pick, but a QB should be selected every year. Or at a minimum signing one that wasn’t drafted.
Now, I like stability at the position. So I’m less about the competition aspect and more about developing numerous assets at the QB slot. This not only creates much needed depth, but also trade assets.
This I agree with. But that’s not what Terps is suggesting...
He decided to purge the roster of virtually all veteran talent and absorb steep dead money.
He's had the equivalent of at least another offseason's worth of resources to invest in this team.
After another offseason, this team must be a lot better.
If a GM cannot build a winner after 3 offseasons with 5 1st round picks (3 in the top 10), he sucks.
spending draft capital on one frequently when you have a good starter? ummm, NO. Most of them picked past the first round don't amount to much. Once in a while you see one turn into a net positive draft pick trade. Usually it's a Webb/Nassib/Lauletta situation.
Now, IF you have a solid team, you may want to explore the model of spending moderately on an average QB, either through a sporadic, strategic, draft or a cast off second tier vet. I would do this over spending huge bucks re-signing an average QB, but if you find a stud you keep him and spend your draft capital on maintaining a solid team.
Last year's draft class stalled in progression, and too early to say on this year's.
There's potential, but until it is realized it's just an unhatched egg.
When the team (especially D) starts looking like something less than soggy oatmeal you can start admiring the rebuild. It doesn't have to be show up in the W-L column, but it does need to be reflected on the field. 2 years in, we're pinning our hopes of winning on playing other laughing stocks, and we're losing to them.
And then the excuse will be they need to play together for some time before they can be good. This team is not a few players away from being competitive.
He's invested heavily in the running back position and offensive line, and he's invested heavily in the defensive line -- unfortunately the Giants are bottom third rushing team and a bottom of the league run stopping team.
Giants need to turn Barkley and the mobility of Jones into the reason why they win games. They have the two stars now they need the mean SOBs to enable them both.
And they need that fast moving maniac that every good defense needs.
Biggest issue on defense is the LB corps. Need about 6 decent LBs to run the 3-4. Giants never seemed to be able to find 3, when they had the 4-3. One of our most promising LBs was Ryan Connelly - a 5th round rookie. That should indicate how shallow the talent is at that position. This does not mean that they have no talent - but what they need is the "game wrecker" - difference maker at LB. One of those will significantly increase the sum of the other parts.
On offense. Shurmur has repeatedly talked about having a run game to establish the play action. If this team does not field a good run blocking team - we can expect more of the same. Zeitler and Hernandez and solid core to build on. Solder has been disappointing especially at that price tag. And, I suspect Remmers' back issues never completely went away, and at his age - probably won't. So, it is up to DG to find at least one starting OT, preferably two. And, improve the run game. Couple things may help that - upgrade TE & FB blocking.
RE: a coaching change - if things don't get better, at a minimum - this will be PS's last year.
Front 7 - with exception of Ogletree all 1st and 2nd year players
If the giants were all in financially from 2018-2019 that would be one thing. They got cheaper and younger. Doesn’t mean this shit will be groovy in another year but it doesn’t mean it’s doomed to fail simply because “they are worse” in 2019. Plus, I’m not sure they are worse than last year, but the roster is younger, especially on D.
He's invested heavily in the running back position and offensive line, and he's invested heavily in the defensive line -- unfortunately the Giants are bottom third rushing team and a bottom of the league run stopping team.
I'd just like to see some progress, period. The only area of improvement so far on this team has been QB play - where we already had a HoF candidate taking snaps.
Overall offensive and defensive unit play? Regression.
Individual units - running game? Backwards, despite a big spend on the OL and a #2 overall at RB. Passing game? Backwards, though some injuries to an already unimpressive WR corps didn't help. At least there's some sign of hope here with Jones and Slayton.
Defense? Backwards. Passing D has been brutal, the defensive line shows absolutely no sign of competent play with only one established pass rusher in Golden who's ona one year show-me contract. Rushing D - where considerable resources have been spent has been exceptionally bad. The team still has no linebackers, despite paying Alec Ogletree good money and trading away a 4th and a 6th to get him. The secondary is young, but not exactly promising - Baker has been terrible, and shows to have some work ethic issues along with his poor play. Peppers came in highly touted and has disappointed to date. There's no credible FS on the roster.
Even STs have been disappointing, with Rosas either injured or taking a big step backward.
The scouts quoted for this article talked about young talent - but left it at that. The players are certainly younger. Whether they're talented or not - their play to date doesn't seem to imply they're any better than what they replaced.
I can't stand the idea that the QB position should just be bequeathed to a guy for X years. Every player on the roster should be fighting for their job every year...a good GM should constantly be searching to improve upon his players, and making them earn their jobs every season.
This is how teams like the Rams give a guy like Jared Goff $110 million guaranteed. And how the Vikings gave Cousins a fully-guaranteed contract. And the Carr contraact. And the Garoppolo contract. Et al.
It seems like anointing a "franchise quarterback" is more important to teams than winning the Lombardi.
For clarity, when would be a fair window in which to expect appreciable improvement?
I've maintained 3 offseasons is a fair measurement of general management.
It doesn’t have to be a high pick, but a QB should be selected every year. Or at a minimum signing one that wasn’t drafted.
Now, I like stability at the position. So I’m less about the competition aspect and more about developing numerous assets at the QB slot. This not only creates much needed depth, but also trade assets.
Like Kyle Lauletta? Davis Webb? Rhett Bomar? Woodson? Lorenzen? Nassib?
That’s a pile of shit and wasted draft picks that could’ve been used on players who could’ve actually helped the team.
The only comparable deficiency is at LT. If we can fill one of these with our inevitable Top 5 pick and one in Free Agency we can accelerate the rebuild. If not we're looking at 2021 before we return to competitive respectability. It should be doable.
Having a game-wrecker on defense makes a football game so much more fun.
Quote:
The disconnect is with the expectations of the fans. Not surprising league people see it differently.
For clarity, when would be a fair window in which to expect appreciable improvement?
I've maintained 3 offseasons is a fair measurement of general management.
I feel like things need to start looking up next season. I think at the end of next year if there isn't progress all bets are off.
I sometimes wonder if the Maras and the Browns owners are directly related.
If I'm building this roster, I'm hoping this player is there at the top of the 2020 draft. Period. There's no blue goose LT expected to be there to cloud the decision either. If they've got a UFA target in mind, go for it.
I'd agree after a third offseason with all the resources pumped into this roster, there should be signs of improvement and ascension to be had.