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NGT: Lamar...

AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 3:37 pm
... is a football savant. Just remarkable. The best player from 2018 by a wide margin, so far. Best QB from 2018-2019 by a wide margin, so far.

It is not close.
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one announcer compared him to Gale Sayers  
gtt350 : 11/17/2019 3:40 pm : link
you don't hear that everyday
of a QB no less  
gtt350 : 11/17/2019 3:41 pm : link
.
The chargers-ravens playoff thread  
MookGiants : 11/17/2019 3:42 pm : link
should be permanently pinned to the top of the board so people think twice before laughing at any of Go Terps thoughts.
ravens front office has been killing it for years now.  
japanhead : 11/17/2019 3:43 pm : link
they won a superbowl and made deep playoff runs regularly with joe flacco for god's sake.
Right now...  
bw in dc : 11/17/2019 3:48 pm : link
I think the Ravens are SB favorites. They are hitting on all cylinders and Jackson is the MVP leader in my book. Ravens have done an amazing job building an offense to meet his skill sets.

Once they get the lead they are very tough. I'm very curious to see them play where they get behind and have to rally around Jackson's arm...
RE: Right now...  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14681729 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I think the Ravens are SB favorites. They are hitting on all cylinders and Jackson is the MVP leader in my book. Ravens have done an amazing job building an offense to meet his skill sets.

Once they get the lead they are very tough. I'm very curious to see them play where they get behind and have to rally around Jackson's arm...


i don't expect them to win the AFC championship in New England. They need to gain the one game on the Pats. But if they do.. i would agree.
Great  
AcidTest : 11/17/2019 3:52 pm : link
player, but he's exposed with all that running.
Hes been impressive so far and proven me wrong.  
Hsilwek92 : 11/17/2019 3:53 pm : link
But, lets see him do it in the playoffs. He was complete and utter dog shit last year when the stage was at its biggest.
AcidTest  
mittenedman : 11/17/2019 3:54 pm : link
I agree. None of that goes out the window. Personally, I would not build a team around Jackson's skillsets at the NFL level. But it's fun to watch and it's working now for the Ravens. Hope he can stay healthy.
The dupe OP is almost right.  
GiantGolfer : 11/17/2019 4:00 pm : link
Jackson is the best football player so far this year, but not the best QB. That title belongs to Russell Wilson.

With that said, were all just waiting til he gets hurt.

And Id still start a team with Daniel Jones at QB over Jackson.
RE: RE: Right now...  
bw in dc : 11/17/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14681732 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:

i don't expect them to win the AFC championship in New England. They need to gain the one game on the Pats. But if they do.. i would agree.


1. Baltimore and Harbaugh have a terrific history in New England. Their culture is fearless playing on the road.

2. New England has at least 2 more losses on that schedule. Things can change, but they still can't run the ball and struggle in pass protection. So I think there is a great chance the AFC runs through Baltimore.
RE: Hes been impressive so far and proven me wrong.  
japanhead : 11/17/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14681739 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
But, lets see him do it in the playoffs. He was complete and utter dog shit last year when the stage was at its biggest.


that was like his eighth start. look at eli's playoff performance v carolina in 2005 after he had a season and a half under his belt.
.  
Go Terps : 11/17/2019 4:04 pm : link
Why is it more advisable to build around a West coast QB than an athlete like Jackson? In a direct comparison there are numerous disadvantages to the West Coast QB:

- rarer in the college ranks
- steeper learning curve
- more reliant on the pieces around him being good at their jobs

I think if we hired Greg Roman and committed fully to his system we'd win 8+ games in 2020.

You just have to have the courage to commit the way Baltimore has.
RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14681741 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
Jackson is the best football player so far this year, but not the best QB. That title belongs to Russell Wilson.

With that said, were all just waiting til he gets hurt.

And Id still start a team with Daniel Jones at QB over Jackson.


i meant of the players drafted in 2018/19. Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers are still top-3 for me.

And i don't think there are any objective observers that would start a team with DJ over Lamar. That's just homerosm..
RE: .  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14681747 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Why is it more advisable to build around a West coast QB than an athlete like Jackson? In a direct comparison there are numerous disadvantages to the West Coast QB:

- rarer in the college ranks
- steeper learning curve
- more reliant on the pieces around him being good at their jobs

I think if we hired Greg Roman and committed fully to his system we'd win 8+ games in 2020.

You just have to have the courage to commit the way Baltimore has.


preach it.

so true.

i agree with every word.

Let's go get Greg Roman!!. I bet he could do really well with DJ and his skill set.
RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
GiantGolfer : 11/17/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14681749 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14681741 GiantGolfer said:


Quote:


Jackson is the best football player so far this year, but not the best QB. That title belongs to Russell Wilson.

With that said, were all just waiting til he gets hurt.

And Id still start a team with Daniel Jones at QB over Jackson.



i meant of the players drafted in 2018/19. Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers are still top-3 for me.

And i don't think there are any objective observers that would start a team with DJ over Lamar. That's just homerosm..


Disagree. Id think most teams want their QB to have a longer shelf life than a few years. And you know....be a QB. Not a runner than can throw.
RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14681756 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 14681749 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14681741 GiantGolfer said:


Quote:


Jackson is the best football player so far this year, but not the best QB. That title belongs to Russell Wilson.

With that said, were all just waiting til he gets hurt.

And Id still start a team with Daniel Jones at QB over Jackson.



i meant of the players drafted in 2018/19. Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers are still top-3 for me.

And i don't think there are any objective observers that would start a team with DJ over Lamar. That's just homerosm..



Disagree. Id think most teams want their QB to have a longer shelf life than a few years. And you know....be a QB. Not a runner than can throw.


it's a reasonable debate I suppose.. I would like to hear what others think. The thing is Lamar is a great football player, right now. He's the bird in the hand. DJ, at this stage is an unfinished product. We don't know what he is. The odds are that he is unlikely to ever be as great as Lamar is RIGHT NOW. That's the difference. Lamar can win a super bowl - now. And if he wins the super bowl it ends the debate. No? i think most observers would take Lamar. Might pose it in the main board.
I seriously  
pjcas18 : 11/17/2019 4:23 pm : link
doubt you find a person who isn't a Giants fan make the claim they'd start a team with Daniel Jones over Lamar Jackson. And I believe you will find maybe just a handful of Giants fans even make that claim.

What's the downside to Lamar? Injury risk because he runs? I read last year it was the fumbles and he wasn't a very good passer.

I think he's put those fallacies to rest.
Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
Mendenhall64 : 11/17/2019 4:26 pm : link
Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.
RE: Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
smshmth8690 : 11/17/2019 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14681767 Mendenhall64 said:
Quote:
Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.


No, he is going to start at least 3 a week.
Jackson is having a remarkable year so far, and the OP wants to make sure that you realize it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
section125 : 11/17/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14681762 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:

it's a reasonable debate I suppose.. I would like to hear what others think. The thing is Lamar is a great football player, right now. He's the bird in the hand. DJ, at this stage is an unfinished product. We don't know what he is. The odds are that he is unlikely to ever be as great as Lamar is RIGHT NOW. That's the difference. Lamar can win a super bowl - now. And if he wins the super bowl it ends the debate. No? i think most observers would take Lamar. Might pose it in the main board.


Yes. Lamar is a very good to great FB player. But he is still a work in progress, too. He's ok throwing while tremendous running. That needs to turn around. He needs to do better and be more consistent throwing.

Let's not put him in Canton quite yet. RGIII started like a house afire, too.
RE: RE: Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
Mendenhall64 : 11/17/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14681775 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
In comment 14681767 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:


Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.



No, he is going to start at least 3 a week.
Jackson is having a remarkable year so far, and the OP wants to make sure that you realize it.


Well, I wanted him in the second round but the Ravens traded up in front of the Giants to take him. Unfortunately, he's not a Giant and neither are a lot of good players but we don't see all of these threads about them.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/17/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14681762 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
it's a reasonable debate I suppose.. I would like to hear what others think. The thing is Lamar is a great football player, right now. He's the bird in the hand. DJ, at this stage is an unfinished product. We don't know what he is. The odds are that he is unlikely to ever be as great as Lamar is RIGHT NOW. That's the difference. Lamar can win a super bowl - now. And if he wins the super bowl it ends the debate. No? i think most observers would take Lamar. Might pose it in the main board.


One of the podcasts had a debate about this recently (might have been The Ringer) where the question was basically this (paraphrasing):

"If you were assured of winning ONE Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson, but only could have him for 8 or 9 years, would you accept those results?"

I believe the Ravens would sign for it.

Would other teams? Maybe not. Harbaugh's belief was to acquire the high talent, see what he does well and maximize. That is not as easy as it would seem.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14681780 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 14681762 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


it's a reasonable debate I suppose.. I would like to hear what others think. The thing is Lamar is a great football player, right now. He's the bird in the hand. DJ, at this stage is an unfinished product. We don't know what he is. The odds are that he is unlikely to ever be as great as Lamar is RIGHT NOW. That's the difference. Lamar can win a super bowl - now. And if he wins the super bowl it ends the debate. No? i think most observers would take Lamar. Might pose it in the main board.



One of the podcasts had a debate about this recently (might have been The Ringer) where the question was basically this (paraphrasing):

"If you were assured of winning ONE Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson, but only could have him for 8 or 9 years, would you accept those results?"

I believe the Ravens would sign for it.

Would other teams? Maybe not. Harbaugh's belief was to acquire the high talent, see what he does well and maximize. That is not as easy as it would seem.


one super bowl does justify it, imo.
RE: RE: Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14681775 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
In comment 14681767 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:


Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.



No, he is going to start at least 3 a week.
Jackson is having a remarkable year so far, and the OP wants to make sure that you realize it.


only one - at most. more likely one every other week. I just want the fan base to "get it". let's clamor for these kinds of players and this kind of approach.
RE: RE: RE: Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
Leg of Theismann : 11/17/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14681778 Mendenhall64 said:
Quote:
In comment 14681775 smshmth8690 said:


Quote:


In comment 14681767 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:


Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.



No, he is going to start at least 3 a week.
Jackson is having a remarkable year so far, and the OP wants to make sure that you realize it.



Well, I wanted him in the second round but the Ravens traded up in front of the Giants to take him. Unfortunately, he's not a Giant and neither are a lot of good players but we don't see all of these threads about them.


The Giants were not among him if he fell 2 more picks. Everyone gets to speculate and think DG the genius would have undoubtedly taken LJ but come on, could you ever see the Giants FO being an that unconventional? I wanted him more than anything and wanted to trade up into the mid 1st to get him but I knew the Giants were never going to. Its just a fact you come to live with rooting for certain franchises the Giants have always and will always do it by the book, at least as long as the owners name is Mara.
Taking* him  
Leg of Theismann : 11/17/2019 4:49 pm : link
Sorry on my phone
To beat the Pats  
uther99 : 11/17/2019 4:50 pm : link
you must also beat the refs
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
Leg of Theismann : 11/17/2019 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14681777 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14681762 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:



it's a reasonable debate I suppose.. I would like to hear what others think. The thing is Lamar is a great football player, right now. He's the bird in the hand. DJ, at this stage is an unfinished product. We don't know what he is. The odds are that he is unlikely to ever be as great as Lamar is RIGHT NOW. That's the difference. Lamar can win a super bowl - now. And if he wins the super bowl it ends the debate. No? i think most observers would take Lamar. Might pose it in the main board.



Yes. Lamar is a very good to great FB player. But he is still a work in progress, too. He's ok throwing while tremendous running. That needs to turn around. He needs to do better and be more consistent throwing.

Let's not put him in Canton quite yet. RGIII started like a house afire, too.


He is absolutely better than okay throwing the ball. Everyone these days just looks for arm talent and whether the ball jumps out of a guys hand a la Mahomes. But the guy has shown more than just flashes of being historically good in terms of accuracy, efficiency, passer rating, QBR, etc. I think hes had 2 games this year now where hes had a perfect passer rating of 158.3? I dont care if hes only throwing for 200 instead of 300-400 yards, hes winning games and getting the rest done with his legs. Give me 15/18 for 196 yards and 4 TDs 0 INTs any day over 30/55 for 408 yards 3 TDs 2 INTs. The guy is doing everything asked of him and winning football games what more could you ask for.
Jackson  
Archer : 11/17/2019 5:02 pm : link
Jackson is so productive playing in the Baltimore offense
The problem with evaluating him is that he looks like a RB playing QB Jackson is the most elusive QB to play the position, but, he does not have a strong arm and he has a very funky motion
His release is slow and he is not accurate
He is still successful because he makes plays and extends plays

The Ravens are primarily winning because they have arguably the best defense in football

I would prefer quite a few of the younger QBs to Lamar, including;
Murray, Watson, Mahomes, I dont know about Jones yet, but, I think that it is close

The question I would ask is how would Jackson have faired playing for the Giants? I fear he would have been injured by now
The Ravens have a good defense in large part due to Jackson and Roman  
Go Terps : 11/17/2019 5:11 pm : link
They are playing the fewest defensive snaps of anyone in the league. They play better complimentary football than anyone in the league.
Roman and Jackson  
BigBlueCane : 11/17/2019 5:13 pm : link
got suffocated and smoked in the playoffs at home vs the Chargers.

Let's put the anointing oil away until they prove differently.
I guess this is going to be a weekly thread topic.  
Mr. Bungle : 11/17/2019 5:30 pm : link
I hope most realize that if LJ were a Giant, he'd have a shitty offensive line in front of him and a shitty head coach. So he'd be exciting to watch...on his way to 5-11.
RE: I guess this is going to be a weekly thread topic.  
Junior22 : 11/17/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14681833 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
I hope most realize that if LJ were a Giant, he'd have a shitty offensive line in front of him and a shitty head coach. So he'd be exciting to watch...on his way to 5-11.


Like Saquon?
Yes  
Mr. Bungle : 11/17/2019 5:47 pm : link
.
Forget Lamar vs. Jones  
widmerseyebrow : 11/17/2019 5:50 pm : link
Name five other players on the Giants team you'd rather have than the Ravens equivalent.

QB Lamar Jackson
RB Mark Ingram II
WR Marquise Brown
WR Miles Boykin
WR Willie Snead IV
TE Mark Andrews
LT Ronnie Stanley
LG Bradley Bozeman
C Matt Skura
RG Marshal Yanda
RT Orlando Brown Jr.

LDE Chris Wormley
NT Michael PierceO
RDE Brandon Williams
WLB Matthew Judon
LILB Patrick Onwuasor
RILB Josh Bynes
SLB Jaylon Ferguson
LCB Marlon Humphrey
SS Chuck Clark
FS Earl Thomas III
RCB Marcus Peters
RE: Forget Lamar vs. Jones  
widmerseyebrow : 11/17/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14681856 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:


Not to mention I'd swap any coach for the Ravens equivalent.
RE: RE: Forget Lamar vs. Jones  
AndyMilligan : 11/17/2019 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14681858 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14681856 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:






Not to mention I'd swap any coach for the Ravens equivalent.


indeed
RE: Jackson  
SimpleMan : 11/17/2019 6:07 pm : link
In comment 14681799 Archer said:
Quote:
Jackson is so productive playing in the Baltimore offense
The problem with evaluating him is that he looks like a RB playing QB Jackson is the most elusive QB to play the position, but, he does not have a strong arm and he has a very funky motion
His release is slow and he is not accurate
He is still successful because he makes plays and extends plays

The Ravens are primarily winning because they have arguably the best defense in football

I would prefer quite a few of the younger QBs to Lamar, including;
Murray, Watson, Mahomes, I dont know about Jones yet, but, I think that it is close

The question I would ask is how would Jackson have faired playing for the Giants? I fear he would have been injured by now


You are way off with this hot-take on the Ravens defense. The Ravens are 15th in defensive yards per game allowed, 14th in points allowed, 8th in rush yards allowed, 20th in pass yards allowed, and 13 in points allowed. If anything they are middle of the pack defensive-wise. Lamar is carrying the team.
RE: RE: RE: Are you going to start a Lamar thread every week?  
GiantGolfer : 11/17/2019 6:10 pm : link
In comment 14681785 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14681775 smshmth8690 said:


Quote:


In comment 14681767 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:


Perhaps it is time for you to switch your allegiance.



No, he is going to start at least 3 a week.
Jackson is having a remarkable year so far, and the OP wants to make sure that you realize it.



only one - at most. more likely one every other week. I just want the fan base to "get it". let's clamor for these kinds of players and this kind of approach.


I get it. You like Jackson. I dont. I like real QBs. Why is that hard to understand?

Can you bring back your original handle? I feel like it was probably better than this one.
RE: RE: Jackson  
widmerseyebrow : 11/17/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14681867 SimpleMan said:
Quote:
You are way off with this hot-take on the Ravens defense. The Ravens are 15th in defensive yards per game allowed, 14th in points allowed, 8th in rush yards allowed, 20th in pass yards allowed, and 13 in points allowed. If anything they are middle of the pack defensive-wise. Lamar is carrying the team.


You call them middle of the pack, but I struggle to find a single player on that defense that I wouldn't swap starters with on the Giants, outside of maybe Dexter Lawrence
RE: RE: RE: Jackson  
SimpleMan : 11/17/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14681870 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14681867 SimpleMan said:


Quote:


You are way off with this hot-take on the Ravens defense. The Ravens are 15th in defensive yards per game allowed, 14th in points allowed, 8th in rush yards allowed, 20th in pass yards allowed, and 13 in points allowed. If anything they are middle of the pack defensive-wise. Lamar is carrying the team.



You call them middle of the pack, but I struggle to find a single player on that defense that I wouldn't swap starters with on the Giants, outside of maybe Dexter Lawrence


The Giants defense sucks. What does that have to do with this? You can't claim the Ravens are winning because of the defense when they are not. They are putting up points on offense that they have never put up before, and the defense is average to maybe above-average.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jackson  
widmerseyebrow : 11/17/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14681873 SimpleMan said:
Quote:
The Giants defense sucks. What does that have to do with this? You can't claim the Ravens are winning because of the defense when they are not. They are putting up points on offense that they have never put up before, and the defense is average to maybe above-average.


There's talk on this thread about attributing the Ravens success solely to Lamar Jackson and how Jackson would be a better QB to start a team with than Jones. He is playing great, but his entire team is vastly superior to the Giants team. Outside of the quarterbacks I would take Saquon over Ingram and maybe Lawrence over one of the ends. Otherwise I'd trade the entire team for the Ravens personnel before even getting into discussions about what system we should run, etc.
How many more wins would we have if we had a middle of the pack  
widmerseyebrow : 11/17/2019 6:22 pm : link
defense? We're flawed top to bottom, but we're probably still in the playoff hunt if we're being real.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Jackson  
SimpleMan : 11/17/2019 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14681880 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14681873 SimpleMan said:


Quote:


The Giants defense sucks. What does that have to do with this? You can't claim the Ravens are winning because of the defense when they are not. They are putting up points on offense that they have never put up before, and the defense is average to maybe above-average.



There's talk on this thread about attributing the Ravens success solely to Lamar Jackson and how Jackson would be a better QB to start a team with than Jones. He is playing great, but his entire team is vastly superior to the Giants team. Outside of the quarterbacks I would take Saquon over Ingram and maybe Lawrence over one of the ends. Otherwise I'd trade the entire team for the Ravens personnel before even getting into discussions about what system we should run, etc.


Fair enough. I was really responding the the person who said the Ravens are winning because they have one of the best defenses in the league. They are winning because of the offense and Lamar. I do agree, the Giants roster is really rough right now.
RE: How many more wins would we have if we had a middle of the pack  
SimpleMan : 11/17/2019 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14681882 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
defense? We're flawed top to bottom, but we're probably still in the playoff hunt if we're being real.


At this point I would be happy with an average O line and an average defense.
RE: RE: RE: The dupe OP is almost right.  
santacruzom : 11/17/2019 6:30 pm : link
In comment 14681756 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 14681749 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14681741 GiantGolfer said:


Quote:


Jackson is the best football player so far this year, but not the best QB. That title belongs to Russell Wilson.

With that said, were all just waiting til he gets hurt.

And Id still start a team with Daniel Jones at QB over Jackson.



i meant of the players drafted in 2018/19. Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers are still top-3 for me.

And i don't think there are any objective observers that would start a team with DJ over Lamar. That's just homerosm..



Disagree. Id think most teams want their QB to have a longer shelf life than a few years. And you know....be a QB. Not a runner than can throw.


That's only true because most teams aren't very good and aren't run very well.
RE: The chargers-ravens playoff thread  
djm : 11/17/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14681724 MookGiants said:
Quote:
should be permanently pinned to the top of the board so people think twice before laughing at any of Go Terps thoughts.


Anyone making sweeping blanket statements on a qb after one playoff game isnt worth debating. These same apes killing Jackson were killing Eli in 2005. Its childish.

Also, terps wasnt the only one who loved Jackson. Many here were intrigued with his skill set and would have gotten on board with the pick it it occured.
PS  
djm : 11/17/2019 6:40 pm : link
There is a reason why athletic (run first) QBs dont win many Super Bowls, at least up until now. Its hard to beat good defenses and good coaching staffs in January unless your qb can read and beat that good defense.

Jackson has clearly proven to be a world beater in the regular season. Book isnt finished on his career. Hes a fun watch.
The poster lickers are out in force  
GiantEgo : 11/17/2019 7:17 pm : link
Can we see the guy have some kind of career first. There have been so many flashes in so many pans. Same goes for Jones by the way...
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