Carson Wentz missing his playmakers!

But with his arm strength and physical build, I think people just expect him to be great

Doesn’t bother me. But I have missed more Giants games than I’d like to (mostly because I’m out of market). Have the guys calling the games been overly critical of Jones? Do they not talk about the missing pieces on the Giants?

In comment 14682157 exiled said:

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Doesn’t bother me. But I have missed more Giants games than I’d like to (mostly because I’m out of market). Have the guys calling the games been overly critical of Jones? Do they not talk about the missing pieces on the Giants?

Not really, they talk about fumbling. Here is a rookie throwing 9 Tds and 1 Int over last three games with his Wr1 out, his TE out one of the games, his OL in shambles but all I hear about is his fumbling. Yesterday, Wentz was missing receivers left and right and I all I heard about was how he was missing receivers.

especially the last drive with open receivers.

wasn’t such a great throw. It was a good throw given the conditions but Aguilar nearly tore his knee reversing his direction to get the ball. It was great he got it out to reach the end zone but the way Romo was talking it was like he threw a ball on the money. He didn’t

In comment 14682163 Blue21 said:

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especially the last drive with open receivers.

"didn't look good" is being nice. It was crunch time and he blew it, big time.

but both quarterbacks were under assault for most of that game, and the coverages were as tight as the skin on a grape. It was a classic defensive battle.

In comment 14682161 Essex said:

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In comment 14682157 exiled said: Quote: Doesn’t bother me. But I have missed more Giants games than I’d like to (mostly because I’m out of market). Have the guys calling the games been overly critical of Jones? Do they not talk about the missing pieces on the Giants? Not really, they talk about fumbling. Here is a rookie throwing 9 Tds and 1 Int over last three games with his Wr1 out, his TE out one of the games, his OL in shambles but all I hear about is his fumbling. Yesterday, Wentz was missing receivers left and right and I all I heard about was how he was missing receivers.

When you lead the league in TOs you're going to hear about it, doesn't mean he isn't good, just needs to fix that big time!

display their stupidity. For my own peace of mind, I try to resist that impulse. It's not always easy.

when Lane Johnson got hurt. It had less to do with the skill positions and more to do with that.

...without pass pro and a running game, huh?

but best TE in football? Ertz is a distant third after Kelce and Kittle imo.

I mute the Games.I can not stand the constant rants. I agree it is hard to complete a pass when you are flat on your back. I think N.E. had 7 sacks yesterday.D. Jones has been playing behind a terrible OL and few Offensive weapons. I think he will be lucky to get thru the season without being injured.

In comment 14682361 giants_10_88 said:

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but best TE in football? Ertz is a distant third after Kelce and Kittle imo.

It it just me or does Ertz seem to be being pushed to the back the background by the other TE? I've seen him on the sideline more than usual, and also the plays seem to not be going to him in the same volume.

Is he up for free agency?

to zero on here.

Have two legit TEs.

Jones played with Jon Hilliman, Rhett Ellison and Cody Latimer.

That I haven't seen a Giants qb make in a while, and I think Jones is going to be really good - and make those same types of plays eventually. The one play where Wentz was falling into the endzone, escapes and finds a receiver 30 yards downfield was incredible. Same thing on the last throw to Agholor, he was falling backwards and put it right in his hands.

He missed some throws, but to say he played poorly is just false.

hell, haskins might.

In comment 14682161 Essex said:

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In comment 14682157 exiled said: Quote: Doesn’t bother me. But I have missed more Giants games than I’d like to (mostly because I’m out of market). Have the guys calling the games been overly critical of Jones? Do they not talk about the missing pieces on the Giants? Not really, they talk about fumbling. Here is a rookie throwing 9 Tds and 1 Int over last three games with his Wr1 out, his TE out one of the games, his OL in shambles but all I hear about is his fumbling. Yesterday, Wentz was missing receivers left and right and I all I heard about was how he was missing receivers.

And we will continue to hear about it until he fixes the issue. Fumbles are turnovers just like INT's, and he leads the league in that category. You cant NOT talk about it. Fumbles are a huge black mark on what has otherwise been a very successful rookie season. He has to fix it.

interceptions. especially when a number of those fumbles have been scooped up and run in for defensive touchdowns.

and the fumbles are a direct result of his shitty pocket awareness.

let's hope both improve over these last six games.

In comment 14682781 John In CO said:

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In comment 14682161 Essex said: Quote: In comment 14682157 exiled said: Quote: Doesn’t bother me. But I have missed more Giants games than I’d like to (mostly because I’m out of market). Have the guys calling the games been overly critical of Jones? Do they not talk about the missing pieces on the Giants? Not really, they talk about fumbling. Here is a rookie throwing 9 Tds and 1 Int over last three games with his Wr1 out, his TE out one of the games, his OL in shambles but all I hear about is his fumbling. Yesterday, Wentz was missing receivers left and right and I all I heard about was how he was missing receivers. And we will continue to hear about it until he fixes the issue. Fumbles are turnovers just like INT's, and he leads the league in that category. You cant NOT talk about it. Fumbles are a huge black mark on what has otherwise been a very successful rookie season. He has to fix it.

Speaking of Wentz, he fumbled the ball 14 times as a rookie, how often did we hear about it? Wentz fumbled again yesterday at least once (maybe twice) when he was getting hit. Does Jones need to improve on that? Yes, of course he does; does his pocket presence need work? Yes, it does. But he also plays behind a bad offensive line, something Wentz has never done and somehow he fumbled a lot as well in the beginning.

In comment 14682449 lax counsel said:

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That I haven't seen a Giants qb make in a while, and I think Jones is going to be really good - and make those same types of plays eventually. The one play where Wentz was falling into the endzone, escapes and finds a receiver 30 yards downfield was incredible. Same thing on the last throw to Agholor, he was falling backwards and put it right in his hands. He missed some throws, but to say he played poorly is just false.

Looked to me, that he missed two very makeable throws on the last drive before the fourth down.

Wentz has this monkey on his back that he really can't pull the game out at the end right now.

Think last time he did it was the Giants, back in 2017 and that required a 60+ yard field goal.

In comment 14682826 Essex said:

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Speaking of Wentz, he fumbled the ball 14 times as a rookie, how often did we hear about it? Wentz fumbled again yesterday at least once (maybe twice) when he was getting hit. Does Jones need to improve on that? Yes, of course he does; does his pocket presence need work? Yes, it does. But he also plays behind a bad offensive line, something Wentz has never done and somehow he fumbled a lot as well in the beginning.

jones has fumbled the ball 13 times in nine games. there are six games to go. so, he is on pace to eclipse wentz's 14 fumbles his rookie year. i am not a wentz fan at all, but his rookie year was nowhere near as bad as jones' has been so far in terms of fumbling.

In comment 14682943 japanhead said:

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In comment 14682826 Essex said: Quote: Speaking of Wentz, he fumbled the ball 14 times as a rookie, how often did we hear about it? Wentz fumbled again yesterday at least once (maybe twice) when he was getting hit. Does Jones need to improve on that? Yes, of course he does; does his pocket presence need work? Yes, it does. But he also plays behind a bad offensive line, something Wentz has never done and somehow he fumbled a lot as well in the beginning. jones has fumbled the ball 13 times in nine games. there are six games to go. so, he is on pace to eclipse wentz's 14 fumbles his rookie year. i am not a wentz fan at all, but his rookie year was nowhere near as bad as jones' has been so far in terms of fumbling.

Of course, Jones has been sacked 32 times in 9 games and Wentz was sacked 25 times in 16 games. Not to mention, he's been hit while throwing 42 times. I don't have Wentz's rookie numbers there but considering the past two years (21 games total) he's been hit only 51x I'm going to guess that he wasn't under constant pressure the way Jones has.

Onto the subject of the thread, Wentz gets excuses made for him by the media because he was the MVP until his injury two years ago and he's yet to play up to that level so people try and creative a narrative as to why that is. The truth is it's looking more and more like an anomaly than who he is as a player. I saw this on ESPN earlier today which backs up that notion:

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Do we hold Wentz to an unrealistic standard? The MVP candidate we saw in 2017 might be the best version of Wentz we ever see, in part because of where he succeeded. He was unsustainably great on third down that season, posting a Total QBR of 91.7 and posting a passer rating of 123.7, both of which led the league by significant margins and were virtually impossible to keep up. This season, Wentz has a QBR of 76.9 and a 96.3 passer rating on third down; good, but not otherworldly. The 2017 version of Wentz posted a 97.2 QBR and threw for 23 touchdown passes without a pick in the red zone; 2019 Wentz has an 81.7 QBR inside the 20 and ranks just behind Josh Allen in ninth.

In comment 14682277 cjac said:

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when Lane Johnson got hurt. It had less to do with the skill positions and more to do with that.

My heart goes out to him. How can anyone play with just two all-pro's and a first round pick instead of three?

forever a lot of times. if you want to make excuses for jones fumbling so much by saying it's the fault of the offensive line, or barkley, that is fair enough. i take the view that it is the fault of the player who is the one fumbling.

i don't like wentz, but i also don't think the media necessarily slobs his knob to an unusual degree, and for the most part, i have not seen jones receiving much media criticism at all for his fumbling, which is bad..

"He’s averaged 1.63 fumbles per start, a 23-fumble pace that would both break the rookie record of 21 (currently held by Tony Banks and Warren Moon) and tie the NFL single-season mark (held by Daunte Culpepper and former Giant Kerry Collins).

The 2019 No. 6 overall pick has buttressed his big efforts with a growing inability to protect the ball. He fumbled 10 times (TEN!) in a four-game stretch from Week 7 to Week 10. New York lost all four of those games, three by seven points or fewer. No team in the league has more fumbles than the Giants, either."


jones fumbling is alarmingly bad - ( New Window )

take Jones.

In comment 14682964 japanhead said:

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forever a lot of times. if you want to make excuses for jones fumbling so much by saying it's the fault of the offensive line, or barkley, that is fair enough. i take the view that it is the fault of the player who is the one fumbling. i don't like wentz, but i also don't think the media necessarily slobs his knob to an unusual degree, and for the most part, i have not seen jones receiving much media criticism at all for his fumbling, which is bad.. "He’s averaged 1.63 fumbles per start, a 23-fumble pace that would both break the rookie record of 21 (currently held by Tony Banks and Warren Moon) and tie the NFL single-season mark (held by Daunte Culpepper and former Giant Kerry Collins). The 2019 No. 6 overall pick has buttressed his big efforts with a growing inability to protect the ball. He fumbled 10 times (TEN!) in a four-game stretch from Week 7 to Week 10. New York lost all four of those games, three by seven points or fewer. No team in the league has more fumbles than the Giants, either." jones fumbling is alarmingly bad - ( New Window )

I think a big part of him holding onto the ball so long is his receivers have a hard time getting separation.

for jones' shortcomings in the pocket and with ball security: the WRs, the OL, barkley, the TEs, shurmur.

at what point can the player be held responsible?

does jones get an absolute pass because he is a rookie and things around him are not perfect? if that's your position fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

i see it as he has fumbled his way to three losses v the cardinals, lions, and jets. had he not coughed the ball up for defensive TDs each of those games the giants are likely sitting at 5-5 or 4-6.

i realize it's a team game but as of now he can be characterized as turnover prone and it has directly contributed to losses.