NFT: Sweeping changes to minor league baseball

...decades-long home of Mets AA ball is over. :(

In comment 14682491 x meadowlander said:

Quote:

...decades-long home of Mets AA ball is over. :(

Interesting - the proposal is to move the Cyclones to the Eastern League to replace Binghamton as the Mets AA team. Bad for Binghamton, but for us locals, kind of cool to have bigger name prospects playing here.

Any impact to Trenton? And yes, that is awful for Binghamton (lousy move), they are a fixture there.

I can imagine there will be plenty of lawsuits in the offing if this goes through.

On the one hand, this really sucks for a lot of small towns who spent money on stadiums and supported these teams. It's a real kick in the teeth and I expect it will have wide-ranging effects on MLB fandom.

On the other hand, advanced metrics and superior evaluation and training techniques means that a lot of these extra levels aren't really needed for player development. Teams would like to reduce the number of org guys on their payroll with zero shot of sniffing AAA, let alone the big club.
MLB’s minor league hit list would kill 42 teams that cities spent hundreds of millions on stadiums for - ( New Window )

Quote:

Rumble Ponies President John Hughes on Monday afternoon announced $5.1 million in upgrades to NYSEG Stadium, and the team announced an extension of its lease at the ballpark until 2026. ... The project is funded from $2.5 million in state funds secured by Flanagan and Akshar through the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York. The City of Binghamton will contribute $2.5 million to match the state grant. NYSEG Stadium has been a city-owned facility since its construction in 1992. Team ownership will contribute $100,000 to the overall project.

Link - ( New Window )

this was being done, at least partly, in an effort to be able to better pay minor league ball players.

Is that true?

if a move like this will have long-range impacts that MLB isn't prepared for? For a sport with dwindling youth participation, will this cause fewer kids to take interest in playing youth baseball in these markets?

Hartford and Richmond are the best.
Eastern League Attendance - ( New Window )

this spring. The Rocket City Trash Panda's (formerly Mobile Bay Bears) are a AA Affiliate of the Angel's. I hope they're not on the block, because they just got a brand-new multi-million dollar stadium tied-in with a water park and a Jimmy Buffet hotel/entertainment complex that's still under construction.

In comment 14682534 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

this was being done, at least partly, in an effort to be able to better pay minor league ball players. Is that true?

It is, but the amount of money at stake is a relative pittance compared to their overall budgets. They could give significant raises across the board for the cost of a utility infielder.

Dream League sounds interesting. A league for undrafted players, almost like the Gleague and the NBA.

the Pawtucket Red Sox.

They agreed to move to Worcester and ground has broken on the "Woo Sox" (i hate that name) new field called Polar Park.

I live equi-distant from Boston and Worcester (and Providence - a little closer to Boston than the other two, but not much) so I definitely planned to go to Worcester Red Sox games.

Worcester is a shit hole, but really shows some signs of breaking out of it, they need stuff like this stadium though.

In comment 14682679 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Dream League sounds interesting. A league for undrafted players, almost like the Gleague and the NBA.

If you want to see undrafted players, you could go see a Ducks game. There are plenty of little, independent baseball leagues all over the country.

You might have a little better talent available since they plan to reduce the draft to twenty rounds, but it's still not a big winner.

The Binghamton Tripletts (Trips for short) were a Yankees class A farm for decades, then they had the Kansas City A's as a parent team for a number of years.

I can remember seeing guys like Pitcher Al Downing and Shortstop Al "Campy" Campaneris play for the Trips at old Johnson Field in Johnson City. Also some highly touted prospects who didn't make it, like Pitcher Steve Kraly who hurt his arm and that cost him his career.

And that's not to mention the old Negro League games that were played there with teams on tour. That's how I got to see Satchel Paige pitch live.

But they really f'ed up by putting the new field in the WRONG place (downtown Binghamton jammed up against the river where parking is a problem) and it has never been the same since Johnson Field was closed and torn down. It's really not surprising that their attendance sucks.

“My God, we’ll be sued all over the place from these cities that have built or refurbished ballparks with taxpayer money, and this will really put our anti-trust exemption in jeopardy,”

is 100% correct. Start adding up the states and multiply x 2 to see the number of Senators involved.

In comment 14682712 Red Dog said:

Quote:

...But they really f'ed up by putting the new field in the WRONG place (downtown Binghamton jammed up against the river where parking is a problem) and it has never been the same since Johnson Field was closed and torn down. It's really not surprising that their attendance sucks.

Weird. I go several times a year, have NEVER had any problems with parking - there are always spots available on Pine St. - where else would you have put the stadium? downtown is the population center - while I don't like the design of the ballpark (boring), I LOVE the trains outside the fence, the beautiful rolling hills in the distance - it's proximity to downtown bars and restaurants is ideal.

Binghamton has been a slowly dying city for 50 years, average per capita income in the region is staggeringly low at $27,830. (Trenton is $42,268 for comparison) THAT is why attendance is weak - minor league hockey team has the same problem. A couple of defense contractors, hospitals and Binghamton University are all that are floating the region right now, not enough to fill that little stadium.

In comment 14682558 BamaBlue said:

Quote:

this spring. The Rocket City Trash Panda's (formerly Mobile Bay Bears) are a AA Affiliate of the Angel's. I hope they're not on the block, because they just got a brand-new multi-million dollar stadium tied-in with a water park and a Jimmy Buffet hotel/entertainment complex that's still under construction.

Being saddled with Binghamton 'Rumble Ponies', I seriously envy the 'Rocket City Trash Panda' theme. It's fantastic!

So it's completely unsurprising that it originated with the Astros.

In comment 14682731 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

“My God, we’ll be sued all over the place from these cities that have built or refurbished ballparks with taxpayer money, and this will really put our anti-trust exemption in jeopardy,” is 100% correct. Start adding up the states and multiply x 2 to see the number of Senators involved.

You forgot to subtract out all the Senators that receive large campaign donations from MLB execs.

The Long Island Ducks and their league come to mind. I went to one of their games last year and was pleasantly surprised . Its real professional baseball with talented players. In the Ducks case, about a third of their roster are ex Major Leaguers. Some of the younger players do catch on with MLB affiliated teams. The Ducks and their league make money. Why can't these cities losing MLB affiliates do the same ?

For the most part. Affiliated ball does a measure of advertising, touted prospects and rehabbing big Leaguers are their own draws, and the orgs pay their salaries.

In comment 14682731 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

“My God, we’ll be sued all over the place from these cities that have built or refurbished ballparks with taxpayer money, and this will really put our anti-trust exemption in jeopardy,” is 100% correct. Start adding up the states and multiply x 2 to see the number of Senators involved.

Yeah. I have a feeling that will stifle this to some extent.

In comment 14682744 x meadowlander said:

Quote:

In comment 14682712 Red Dog said: Quote: ...But they really f'ed up by putting the new field in the WRONG place (downtown Binghamton jammed up against the river where parking is a problem) and it has never been the same since Johnson Field was closed and torn down. It's really not surprising that their attendance sucks. Weird. I go several times a year, have NEVER had any problems with parking - there are always spots available on Pine St. - where else would you have put the stadium? downtown is the population center - while I don't like the design of the ballpark (boring), I LOVE the trains outside the fence, the beautiful rolling hills in the distance - it's proximity to downtown bars and restaurants is ideal. Binghamton has been a slowly dying city for 50 years, average per capita income in the region is staggeringly low at $27,830. (Trenton is $42,268 for comparison) THAT is why attendance is weak - minor league hockey team has the same problem. A couple of defense contractors, hospitals and Binghamton University are all that are floating the region right now, not enough to fill that little stadium.

Spot on. Plenty of parking, easy in and easy out. Nice little ballpark. Lots of old Yankees played there, Munson, Downing, Boyer, Pepitone, Skowron, etc.

Sort of like Sears. How do you maintain a profit margin as your customer base shrinks?

Cutting these costs goes right to the grassroots, but so much of player development is international that they probably are correct in that its not going to impact MLB talent level.

But how do you raise a new generation of fans on $75 tickets? Shrinking the minor league product will not help.

MLB parent club expense for these teams? do they pay the player salaries?

I thought that most (or many) of these MLB teams were independently owned and operated, but just affiliated with a major league team.

is that not the case? I know the Mets (Sterling enterprises) own some teams like Brooklyn and I think they bought Syracuse recently, but they don't own Binghamton or Columbia - as far as I know.

I'm just not entirely clear what problem MLB is trying to solve here.

In comment 14683430 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

MLB parent club expense for these teams? do they pay the player salaries? I thought that most (or many) of these MLB teams were independently owned and operated, but just affiliated with a major league team.

MLB teams pay payroll and coaching salaries. (Maybe some other expense as well, but salaries are the big thing). And with increasing pressure to up pay for minor league players, that makes having so many affiliated teams unappealing for the major league owners.

In comment 14683419 WideRight said:

Quote:

Sort of like Sears. How do you maintain a profit margin as your customer base shrinks? Cutting these costs goes right to the grassroots, but so much of player development is international that they probably are correct in that its not going to impact MLB talent level. But how do you raise a new generation of fans on $75 tickets? Shrinking the minor league product will not help.

The minors probably benefit international prospects as much or more than American prospects, at least college draftees. Cutting out the low minors and having a limit on prospects under control makes it hard to stash a kid you sign at 16 in short season until he's 19 or 20 to see if something pops.

sense than eliminating random teams is having an age cap when players can no longer play in the minors.

that's where independent leagues maybe come in (for the older players), but it would also get players to the majors younger.

There was a trend a while back or so it seemed that the best prospects were making jumps from AA to the majors or at least not spending significant time in AAA.

So, not having teams fill up AAA rosters with borderline major leaguers or non-prospects in case they need to have them spot start or pinch hit might help solve some of the budget problems.

but those players are useful in their own right. A good defensive catcher, maybe with a college pedigree, is a tutor to pitchers and to other catchers alike, and good defensive middle IFs can help teach pitchers not to fear contact. A lot of coaches come from those pedigrees. And if you set an age cap, it'll be more difficult for the indy league guys to get back to affiliated ball if something does come together. Usually they'll play a few months or a few years in an indy league and something - a swing tweak, a new pitch - will come together, or they'll get healthy after lingering injury, and they'll go back to affiliated ball for a few months before they hit the bigs.

Your typical 16 year old intl signee, or 18 year old out of HS are so well prepared. So well trained and coached. Compared to just 20 years ago. That these kids really don’t need the number of levels of minor leagues that the previous structure provided.

The usual suspects, some real forward looking orgs, will REALLY massively take advantage of these changes and refocus on player dev.

In comment 14683567 Shecky said:

Quote:

Your typical 16 year old intl signee, or 18 year old out of HS are so well prepared. So well trained and coached. Compared to just 20 years ago. That these kids really don’t need the number of levels of minor leagues that the previous structure provided. The usual suspects, some real forward looking orgs, will REALLY massively take advantage of these changes and refocus on player dev.

Disagree. Yes they have a lot of experience, but so does their competition. The elite talents have confused us as to what the usual trajectory is for prospect development. It is still very common for a prep draftee or IFA sign to do 5-7 years in the minors before making it to the bigs.

.

it has developed piecemeal and is probably not the most rational approach to player development. They want to be able to do a lot in-house, which seems to be the biggest point of emphasis in these changes. I would imagine the Trackman/Driveline style of minutely observed pitching and swinging for at least the draft year but potentially beyond that will become the norm, and that makes a lot of sense if we're solely concerned with development. I think there is a sense that between the complex leagues/instructs level and the level of legit competition - roughly A Ball - there is a lot of wasted effort and money, with suboptimal outcomes.

What I think the league is selling short though is the role of these feeder teams in generating interest in the sport in parts of the country that is simply inaccessible to MLB. Burlington, for instance, has the Lake Monsters. Appalachia has a dozen teams at a number of levels, most of which are the only game in town prior to the beginning of high school and college football. The Pioneer League has a similar function. Driving three, five, ten hours to watch an MLB game isn't necessarily realistic more than once a year, if that. In-person baseball does a lot more to cultivate interest than watching it on television.

Minor league games are a lot of fun as well as affordable family entertainment. A lot of people don't live near an MLB city.

I'd almost 100% rather go to minor league baseball games than major league. especially if the kids are young (under 12).

Many minor league parks really cater to family entertainment.

The ones that don't are missing an opportunity.

Living in Boston, my kids went to 5 or 6 Pawtucket Red Sox games before ever stepping foot in Fenway, where they've still only been a few times.

A nine inning game is often beyond the attention span of 5-6-7 year olds. If you're only spending $10 per ticket, you don't mind so much when they start wanting to leave around the 6th or 7th. I still haven't taken my kids to an MLB game for that reason - with the travel involved (two hours each way to DC is the closest for us), that's a long day for them even at 9 and 11.

It's convenient and cheap. I take my daughter along and try to get her into the game some, but she's mostly interested in popcorn, ice cream and fireworks.

Still, the players there are pretty far down on the talent ladder. The odds of me seeing anyone good or interesting are pretty low.

I've been meaning to go see a Cyclones game, but the drive into the Brooklyn is much less convenient and the short season and super low minors make it less appealing. If they switch to AA that would definitely motivate me to see a few games during the course of the season.

When scouts come and mine the Atlantic League for talent, they're either looking for org guys to fill out rosters or to see if someone has had a velo bump or come up with an offspeed pitch that makes him something more than he was when he was in affiliated ball or being scouted pre-draft. Sometimes it clicks for hitters, or sometimes they just needed a chance to get healthy, but you're more apt to see major league pitchers with an Indy Ball stint than you are position players.

seems like a macro lesson in what happens when you artificially (vs organically) increase the minimum wage.

- I read in one of the Staten Island online newspapers that the Yankees would like to keep a team there, but the details were pretty nonexistent.

they actually draw very poorly, which sucks because it's a beautiful park and they're a Yankees affiliate.

And issue a veiled threat.

Quote:

The abandonment of Minor League clubs by Major League Baseball would devastate our communities, their bond purchasers, and other stakeholders affected by the potential loss of these clubs. We want you to fully understand the impact this could have not only on the communities we represent, but also on the long-term support that Congress has always afforded our national pastime on a wide variety of legislative initiatives. For over a century, Congress has taken numerous actions specifically designed to protect, preserve, and sustain a system and structure for both Major and Minor League Baseball to flourish.

Link - ( New Window )

most of the clubs they're targeting are not drawing and/or have substandard facilities. They do legitimately (and for legitimate reasons) want to reduce travel burdens and provide better facilities for minor leaguers. But I think they underrate the role of minor league ball in generating lasting interest in the major league product.