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NFT: NFT: Yankees trade rumors from Dave TE

Matt in SGS : 11/18/2019 11:39 am
Well, who knew that Dave TE goes beyond just his NFL and College Football scouting. His scouting services includes basketball and baseball as well (maybe hockey too).

Anyway, he did a podcast over the weekend with a few Yankee tidbits.

- He said he's hearing that Cole will go to one of the big boys and unlike a usual Boras client, will look to sign earlier than later. Yankees and Dodgers the two biggest contenders for him. If he wants West Coast, he's going to Dodgers

- He thinks the Yankees will talk to Cole and Strausburg, but will end up signing Wheeler from the Mets because they know he's been in the NY scene and he will cost much less than the big 2.

- Yankees are looking to make a splash with a trade. Right now they've got 4 trade chips lined up- Andujar, Frazier, Florial, and Deivi Garcia. Yankees are going to go after Lindor as the Indians know he's going to leave in 2 years and his value is at his highest. If they can't agree to a deal for Lindor, than some part of that package could be used to land Clevinger.

- Didi will end up Cincinnati, especially if the Yankees get Lindor

- Red Sox are screwed with Mookie Betts because everyone knows he's testing free agency no matter what, so the Sox are in a tough spot to trade him. They need to dump money.

Anyway, I could see Wheeler to the Yankees, even though I want Cole. But interesting that he thinks Cole will sign early and not wait until February again. He thinks Boras wants to set the market early and let the rest fall into place with the others.

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Trout  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2019 11:22 am : link
at 17 years old... .352/.419/.486. .918 OPS as an 18 year old with 47 extra base hits, 56 steals and 73 walks.
Vladdy, Acuna, and Wander Franco...  
Dunedin81 : 11/19/2019 11:24 am : link
were the best in the last couple years (Soto had hype but not QUITE on that level). Trout and Harper before that. To be in that conversation would be incredible in its own right, Dominguez does not need to be more than that (hell, he doesn't even have to be that).
Shouldn't you be more concerned about your manager being suspended  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 11:27 am : link
for being the mastermind of an elaborate cheating operation than Yankees prospects, anyway?
Yeah  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2019 11:28 am : link
I'm really being a Yankee hater by suggesting he might not considered the best prospect in 10 years.
Rankings are different than comparisons  
Phil in LA : 11/19/2019 11:47 am : link
but the only to people I have seen Dominguez compared to are Trout and Mantle. (this by variious scouts( So, I don't where he's ranked.
RE: oh  
MM_in_NYC : 11/19/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14683434 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
and last tidbit, Jasson Dominguez is the best prospect MLB has seen in over 10 years and he will be in the Bronx in 3 years, similar to Ken Griffey Jr. coming up as a teenager and starting in CF.


this is fun to hear!
RE: RE: oh  
Matt in SGS : 11/19/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14683619 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14683434 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


and last tidbit, Jasson Dominguez is the best prospect MLB has seen in over 10 years and he will be in the Bronx in 3 years, similar to Ken Griffey Jr. coming up as a teenager and starting in CF.



Um. Mike Trout is within the last 10 years so... no.


Dan, This is from Dave TE and other scouts he's talked with. Said he's the next Mike Trout actually, but the comp of coming up as a teenager was like Griffey Jr. and Soto.
Let’s see Dominguez hit state-side first before anointing him.  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/19/2019 12:12 pm : link
He’s already developed through the upper body, much like Wander Franco, though so I don’t know if you can project him like a normal 16-yo.

We did see the entire 2014 IFA class flame out, there are no sure things when it comes to Latin kids, no matter how perfect they seem on paper. Granted, Dominguez is head and shoulders above them, but you just never know.

The last time we signed a top ranked amateur and have him actually contribute, it was Sanchez, and it took him what, 5-6 years?
Yanks have to get their 40 set by tomorrow  
Phil in LA : 11/19/2019 12:29 pm : link
so, we'll probably see a trade or two today.
Part of the thing with Dominguez is how complete a player he is  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 12:37 pm : link
Legit 5 tools - runs like the wind, powerful arm, could play anywhere on the field (they're making him a CF), hits for both contact and power. He's got a Mantle-type build and is not thought to have the body type to grow out of his youthful athleticism. Some of those super prospects were more heavily shaded towards the bat for their potential.
The switch hitting  
Phil in LA : 11/19/2019 12:47 pm : link
is what makes the Mantle comp so amazing, there've been a lot of switch hitters who aren't Mantle, but people who see him say Mantle.
Like I mentioned, I've seen several comps to Mantle based on body type  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 12:57 pm : link
Same kind of compact, muscular 5'11" frame.
RE: Like I mentioned, I've seen several comps to Mantle based on body type  
section125 : 11/19/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14683737 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Same kind of compact, muscular 5'11" frame.


Mantle was something. I think he only weighed 165/170 when he came up and in 1956 (56 in '56) he only weighed 175/180, iirc from the books I read.
Amazing with all that power he was about the same speed home to first as Willie Wilson of the KC Royals - like 3.5 sec home to 1st.
hmmm  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 2:38 pm : link
I read Mantle's autobiography several times as a kid. I remember him saying that he was skinny when he came up as a teenager, around 170 like you said, but that by the mid to late 50s had filled out to 200.

FWIW, B-R has him listed at 5'11" 195.
BA says we have the second-worst batch...  
Dunedin81 : 11/19/2019 2:42 pm : link
of Rule 5 decisions. Names Deivi, Gil, Medina, Florial, and Yajure as must protects and Nelson as a maybe.
Link - ( New Window )
And looking at his B-R page is always a marvel  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 2:43 pm : link
His basestealing numbers are excellent - 153 steals, only caught 38 times, a percentage of 80%, which is better than Lou Brock's success rate and the same as Vince Coleman and Rickey Henderson. Many fewer attempts, obviously, but as Mantle said when Canseco had his 40/40 season, "If I knew it was such a big deal, I would have done it a few times myself."
RE: BA says we have the second-worst batch...  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14683874 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
of Rule 5 decisions. Names Deivi, Gil, Medina, Florial, and Yajure as must protects and Nelson as a maybe. Link - ( New Window )


Trades are a-comin'
Hype train  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 11/19/2019 8:34 pm : link
is full steam ahead.
Jasson - ( New Window )
RE: hmmm  
section125 : 11/19/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14683870 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I read Mantle's autobiography several times as a kid. I remember him saying that he was skinny when he came up as a teenager, around 170 like you said, but that by the mid to late 50s had filled out to 200.

FWIW, B-R has him listed at 5'11" 195.


In 1956? 195 lbs, I remember that weight in the late 60s. Probably 210 with a few beers downed.

Hey, probably 35-40 years since I read it. And of course, I could/probably am be wrong, I just remember that he seemed awful light to hit that many HRs...
RE: And looking at his B-R page is always a marvel  
section125 : 11/19/2019 9:10 pm : link
In comment 14683879 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
His basestealing numbers are excellent - 153 steals, only caught 38 times, a percentage of 80%, which is better than Lou Brock's success rate and the same as Vince Coleman and Rickey Henderson. Many fewer attempts, obviously, but as Mantle said when Canseco had his 40/40 season, "If I knew it was such a big deal, I would have done it a few times myself."


He could fly, but we all remember(maybe you don't, ha) the destroyed legs and hobbling around in LF until they had to move him to 1B.
RE: Yeah  
djm : 11/19/2019 9:30 pm : link
In comment 14683646 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I'm really being a Yankee hater by suggesting he might not considered the best prospect in 10 years.


You guys are splitting hairs. Point is he’s a phenom. If he isn’t the best prospect he’s certainly one of the best. Works for me.
djm  
Bill2 : 11/20/2019 7:10 am : link
What?

You are going to bring a common sense perspective?

I don't know. Mods catch you and its curtains for djm.

On a serious note, hope you are well

I remember when Bobby Murcer was gonna be the next Mantle  
Milton : 11/20/2019 7:41 am : link
He wasn't.
RE: hmmm  
Milton : 11/20/2019 7:50 am : link
In comment 14683870 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I read Mantle's autobiography several times as a kid. I remember him saying that he was skinny when he came up as a teenager, around 170 like you said, but that by the mid to late 50s had filled out to 200.

FWIW, B-R has him listed at 5'11" 195.
Just remember that in the mid to late 50s, offensive lineman were 230-250lbs. 5'11" 195lbs was a lot bigger then than it is now.
Milton  
Bill2 : 11/20/2019 8:07 am : link
and it was a dead dead ball thrown off a higher mound.

Im sure we agree that endless possible dissective era to era comparisons are going to go in circles.

Mantle was a great baseball player. Not the greatest, but easily within the top 25 to ever play the now more than a century old game
What's really amazing to me is Mays and Mantle were the same age  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 8:14 am : link
Imagine if a Mike Trout clone broke in at the same time as Trout.
RE: I remember when Bobby Murcer was gonna be the next Mantle  
section125 : 11/20/2019 8:15 am : link
In comment 14684323 Milton said:
Quote:
He wasn't.


And Tom Tresh, etc.
Well, a lot of that Murcer-Mantle comparison was just because  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 9:05 am : link
they were both from Oklahoma.

Murcer was a good player, though, who had two legitimately great seasons for them in 1971-72.
Primer on Rule 5 decisions...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 9:15 am : link
a lot of tough choices. Bear in mind carrying a full roster will necessitate new decisions if and when they sign people.
Link - ( New Window )
I think the Yanks should do what Cleveland di almost a generation  
Jay in Toronto : 11/20/2019 9:19 am : link
ago (I think). They should lock up their young guys (Judge, Torres) as the # 1 priority.
RE: I remember when Bobby Murcer was gonna be the next Mantle  
Ron from Ninerland : 11/20/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14684323 Milton said:
Quote:
He wasn't.
Really ? I don't remember that. Murcer was a fine player, but I don't recall anyone ever saying he was the next Mantle. He wasn't even considered their best offensive player at the time, Roy White was.
with the caveat that I wasn't even born yet....  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 9:27 am : link
When Murcer was a teenaged prospect, he was promoted by the media as Mantle's replacement who was a lot like him - Oklahaoma kid, played center, had speed and power. I'm not sure anyone predicted he'd be a player on Mantle's level, but he was hyped as a future star.

Roy White actually had a really underrated career and was a very good player, but he never produced a season close to Murcer's '71-72. White even had an excellent 1971, hitting .292/.388/.469......but Murcer hit .331/.427/.543.
RE: RE: I remember when Bobby Murcer was gonna be the next Mantle  
Jay in Toronto : 11/20/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14684420 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
In comment 14684323 Milton said:


Quote:


He wasn't.

Really ? I don't remember that. Murcer was a fine player, but I don't recall anyone ever saying he was the next Mantle. He wasn't even considered their best offensive player at the time, Roy White was.


Actually it was Ross Moschitto (sp?)
RE: with the caveat that I wasn't even born yet....  
section125 : 11/20/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14684433 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
When Murcer was a teenaged prospect, he was promoted by the media as Mantle's replacement who was a lot like him - Oklahaoma kid, played center, had speed and power. I'm not sure anyone predicted he'd be a player on Mantle's level, but he was hyped as a future star.

Roy White actually had a really underrated career and was a very good player, but he never produced a season close to Murcer's '71-72. White even had an excellent 1971, hitting .292/.388/.469......but Murcer hit .331/.427/.543.


Greg is 100% correct as far as the hype. I was there, I remember it. It is also why I brought up Tom Tresh (hey he was a failed SS just like Mickey) and wore #6(IIRC) just like Mickey.
I can't comment on the hype when Murcer was 16  
Ron from Ninerland : 11/20/2019 12:06 pm : link
Although Mantle was a switch hitter and much faster than Murcer its entirely possible that Murcer was hyped as the next Mantle before he got to the majors. Just as every kid who can throw 90 is the next Mariano, just as every kid who can hit the other way and flash leather is the next Trout and every kid that can fly down the base paths is the next Ricky Henderson.

I was there when Murcer was in his prime. Nobody thought he'd be the next Mickey Mantle. He had good power in an era in which pitching dominated and he played for a power starved team. He was a very good but not great center fielder, he had good but not great speed and although he was a home run threat he didn't hit for great average. Both Roy White and Danny Cater hit for higher average. Also comparing Murcer to Tom Tresh is ridiculous. Tresh came up in 1962 and was gone by the time Murcer came up in 1969.
Correction to the previous post  
Ron from Ninerland : 11/20/2019 12:17 pm : link
In 1971 Murcer did have a much higher batting average than Roy White and did have a somewhat higher lifetime BA than Roy White ( including his years in the NL ). I stand my my original premise. Once Murcer came to the majors he was never considered a successor to Mickey Mantle, he was not compared to Mickey Mantle and other than the fact that they were both center fielders, he was not the same type of player as Mickey Mantle.
a friend said  
AndyMilligan : 11/20/2019 12:21 pm : link
he heard there could be a package of Lindor + Kluber. Anybody else seeing this? Can't find anything on it.
Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Ron  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 12:29 pm : link
From Phil Pepe's eulogy for Murcer at YES Network:

Quote:
As a player, Bobby Murcer never quite reached the lofty heights predicted for him. He was damned by comparisons to Mickey Mantle — both were born in Oklahoma, both were signed as shortstops, both were converted to center field.

When Murcer joined the Yankees, the team's Public Relations Department seized upon those similarities and floated predictions that Murcer would become "another Mickey Mantle." But Murcer never could live up to those comparisons to one of the game's greats. Nobody could.


From the NYT eulogy:

Quote:
When he made his Yankee debut in September 1965 as a teenage shortstop, Murcer evoked images in the press of a young Mantle. Murcer batted left-handed while Mantle was a switch-hitter, but both were Oklahomans, both had been signed by the Yankee scout Tom Greenwade, both possessed speed on the bases, and both had played at shortstop in the minor leagues.


This one, from the Daily News, mentions both Tresh and Murcer:

Quote:
Like every one of the “future Mantles” on this list, Bobby Murcer couldn’t fill the expectations, either. But Murcer, like Mantle, was born in Oklahoma, signed as a shortstop, and converted to center field before reaching the show, so he couldn’t avoid the unfair comparison. Even still, he came closer than anyone to filling the role.

all the "next Mantles" - ( New Window )
RE: a friend said  
bigbluehoya : 11/20/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14684691 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
he heard there could be a package of Lindor + Kluber. Anybody else seeing this? Can't find anything on it.


This wouldn't shock me. Cleveland faces real financial constraints. If adding a 33 year old Kluber coming off of a lost season helps to maximize the haul they get from moving a cornerstone piece like Lindor, I don't think they get hesitate to do it.

Once you're in a place where (believe that) your best interests involve moving a player of Lindor's caliber, parting with a mid-30s SP who's really good but has let you down in some big spots is almost a logical next step.
Before the Yanks moved to Shea  
Phil in LA : 11/20/2019 12:44 pm : link
Murcer had 3 or 4 seasons that were really Mantle seasons. He was a great player in an extreme pitchers era, and even with the bounce around and return, he was better than some guys in the HoF.
Mantle's problem was  
Phil in LA : 11/20/2019 12:46 pm : link
that Bill Dickey, or someone, had taught him to top hand the ball to hit it over the wall. When he finally got back to the Yanks, Charlie Lau said, "Why are you smothering the baseball." Murcer stopped top handing and was great again.
Phil's right  
dune69 : 11/20/2019 12:49 pm : link
particularly around '71 to '73, Murcer looked like he could be the second coming of Mantle. However, not many have filled those shoes.
Imo, Murcer never looked like a talent who could equal Mantle.  
yatqb : 11/20/2019 12:54 pm : link
Not as much speed or power, not as much talent. A very solid player, the best on our team, but not close to the Mick.
yeah, like I said earlier  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 12:57 pm : link
Murcer was legitimately great in 1971 and 1972.

If you want to be reminded how screwy awards voting in baseball used to be, look at the 1971 MVP vote. Murcer hit .331/.427/.543 yet only finished 8th in the MVP voting behind....Freddie Patek.
Any moves relative to Rule 5 today?  
Del Shofner : 11/20/2019 5:05 pm : link
I expected to see a trade or two by the Yanks, even if minor.
you may have already seen this  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 5:17 pm : link
But this clip of Jasson Dominguez taking BP, man, his hits sound like rifle shots.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: you may have already seen this  
dune69 : 11/20/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14684988 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But this clip of Jasson Dominguez taking BP, man, his hits sound like rifle shots. Link - ( New Window )


Good vid. He has a strong upper body (for a 16 yo) planted on top of runner's legs. Hopefully he has the maturity to handle to heap of expectations already being thrown his way. I read he likes to work on his game so this is a start.
Lou Clinton  
Lurts : 11/20/2019 7:07 pm : link
Ray Barker.

Bound for Cooperstown.
RE: Correction to the previous post  
section125 : 11/20/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14684686 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
In 1971 Murcer did have a much higher batting average than Roy White and did have a somewhat higher lifetime BA than Roy White ( including his years in the NL ). I stand my my original premise. Once Murcer came to the majors he was never considered a successor to Mickey Mantle, he was not compared to Mickey Mantle and other than the fact that they were both center fielders, he was not the same type of player as Mickey Mantle.


Ron, with all due respect, Murcer was absolutely hyped as the next Mickey Mantle. Was it before and just as he got to the Bronx? Yes.
Was it after he did get to the Bronx and everyone saw him? No.
But he absolutely and positively(as was Tommy Tresh) hyped as the next Mickey Mantle.

You are right, he was not the player in any respect that Mickey was. There is not one thing, except maybe personal integrity, that he was better at than Mickey. But that does not mean that the Yanks did not hype Bobby as the next Mickey Mantle.
RE: Any moves relative to Rule 5 today?  
Del Shofner : 11/20/2019 7:44 pm : link
In comment 14684970 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
I expected to see a trade or two by the Yanks, even if minor.


hmm - I see 8 pm ET is the deadline so maybe yet to come this evening.
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