Jim Schwartz is reported to have never gotten an interview as was planned with the Giants two years ago after the Eagles, with him as the Defense Coordinator, won the Super Bowl. The Philadelphia Inquirerer report is that:
"Schwartz has mostly avoided the topic when it’s been broached by reporters. Most Super Bowl-winning coordinators are hot commodities. Frank Reich wasn’t considered top guy material by many, but when Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels bailed on the Colts post-Super Bowl, the former Eagles offensive coordinator was subbed in and the rest is history.
But Schwartz has been a harder sell. He was set to meet with the New York Giants two offseasons ago, but the interview was canceled because the Giants came to learn that he would want some personnel authority, two NFL sources said." |
The point of this is not that Jim Schwartz would have been a great coach, noting that his personality can be a problem despite his coaching ability, but that the Giants' front office has a "delegation of powers" structure that will prevent some/many good head coaches from being considered or hired, such as those requiring "some personnel authority."
Link: https://www.inquirer.com/sports/eagles-jim-schwartz-defensive-coordinator-doug-pederson-chris-long-bill-belichick-20191116.html
Jim Schwartz’s sway within the Eagles is unparalleled for a coordinator | Jeff McLane - (
New Window )
But the organizational structure of the NYG on the football operations side is pretty obviously sub-optimal.
and that sums up the disaster that has been giants decision making... not that schwartz is the holy grail but that they dont like change
But the organizational structure of the NYG on the football operations side is pretty obviously sub-optimal.
Yup. I think we can all agree we don’t wish we gave Schwartz any control of personal as part of hiring him...but this will always be a road block for some of the top candidates we do wish would be considered.
Many of us contemplate the pipe dream of finding a way to bring Belichick
home to the Giants to finish his career. We also know there’s no chance it ever happens if he can’t control personnel.
Probably no chance with him regardless, but the point remains.
Based on what?
MARA MUST GO
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where we are now.
Based on what?
based on where we are now lol
Is that a Gettelman issue? It sounds like most GM's want to be authoritative when it comes to making personnel decisions. And that's something that's either granted to them in the hiring process, or it isn't.
I think its fair to say our next GM, whoever it is (and most of the candidates) will ask for the same power.
This to me is a Giants issue, not specifically a DG issue.
BUT
You bring people in to hear different perspectives on your team, how different voices wold address things. Players, weaknesses, strengths etc...
The Giants seems to want to only hear their own voice. It's a problem.
Belichcik gets to make his calls and Pete Carroll as well but other recent champs did it more like us - Philly and Denver come to mind. It's about getting the right guys in the right roles IMO not the structure.
But the organizational structure of the NYG on the football operations side is pretty obviously sub-optimal.
The GM and coach structure most NFL teams have is not ideal, unless they are completely in lock step. Just imagine the dysfunction with the different philosophies of Reese and Coughlin.
This is nothing new. Most teams have the GM make the final decision. From what I've read, the HC and staff do have input and suggest players that they all hash out.
Not many coaches can handle both jobs. BB is an exception. TC sucked at it in Jax. There is a reason teams set up the FO with GM as the final word....
This could be damning if it's an indication that a coach has no input into the process under Gettleman, or it could be nothing if Schwarz is the kind of guy who basically wants to be Belichik and have complete control over all roster decisions.
there's a sliding scale between minimal and overwhelming say, and that can be spun anyway you want it.
An authoritarian coach may want maximum, pretty much final, say and when the Giants say no, anyone with an agenda can point and claim the Giants don't let the coach acquire the players he wants.
It's pretty obvious the Giants make these decisions as a group, including the HC.
Absolutely, that might scare away the ones who want to be closer to being both GM and HC. But it's a different argument as to whether that model is the most productive.
For the right candidate, I'd bet the Giants would give a bit.
Agree.
This is nothing new. Most teams have the GM make the final decision. From what I've read, the HC and staff do have input and suggest players that they all hash out.
Not many coaches can handle both jobs. BB is an exception. TC sucked at it in Jax. There is a reason teams set up the FO with GM as the final word....
Schwartz is a really good defensive mind. But Shurmurs a really good QB developer. Not sure we missed out on Schwartz, and I wanted a defensive minded coach and was for getting Schwartz at the time.
I think this is true. If the Giants insist on keeping DG then it will limit their "big game" HC hunting this off season. Saban, Cowher or BB ain't coming here if they aren't given complete roster control.
However, Jim Schwartz isn't the kind of HC you just hand over the reigns to.
You love to harp on Shurmur for being a loser - Schwartz is 29-52 all time...not sure he's the answer either.
Remember, we hired Shurmur one day after Schwartz handed him his lunch in the NFC Championship game. I never understood why we did that.
I guess this is right, but man I would like to have Schwartz coach our team. His attention to detail looks really good. The main thing about our last two coaches is that they do not seem that smart to me. Schwartz seems to be smart and pays attention to the details. But, yeah, I am not handing over the personnel to him and even if you look in that article which is largely complimentary his personnel evaluations have been iffy at best
but that one time where he tried to fight harbaugh on the field at the end of the game was awesome.
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input into personnel decisions 35 years ago. He used to fight with George Young all the time. He even argued with the GM in New England.
This is nothing new. Most teams have the GM make the final decision. From what I've read, the HC and staff do have input and suggest players that they all hash out.
Not many coaches can handle both jobs. BB is an exception. TC sucked at it in Jax. There is a reason teams set up the FO with GM as the final word....
Except the GM doesn't have the final say- here, the owners do, and since 2012 or so, they have exercised their prerogative. That is the "Giants Way". The reason Gettleman is even here is that he is willing to go along with it. They don't want any HC upsetting the apple cart.
That is complete bullshit and you know it. Every owner has final say if they want it. They own the effin team, so of course they can take whichever player that is available. But if you seriously think that DG is only here so that Mara and Tisch can make finale personnel decisions you are a fool. I usually dismiss most of your posts without comment for sheer stupidity, but this takes the cake. Freakin DG got fired for disregarding Richardson down in Charlotte over Olsen and you think he is going to kowtow to the Giants owners?
Interestingly enough - none of those teams hired Schwartz that year...the Super Bowl winning defensive coordinator - nor has he had a HC gig since.
That probably speaks more to Schwartz as a coaching candidate than anything else.
but that one time where he tried to fight harbaugh on the field at the end of the game was awesome.
That's some douche on douche crime right there.
Again, coaches' job is to coach...GM's job is to get the players for the coach to succeed. There is no one hard and fast rule for any team in the NFL.
Hell, Dallas would still suck if they hadn't finally convinced Jerruh to draft players based on their scouting plus they finally hired good scouting and personnel staff. Where the Giants are bad, right now, is in the open market. Gettleman's FA acquisitions have not been very good but, so far, his drafts have been.
Isn't everyone bitching about our current coach who also had a losing record as an HC?
We currently start more rookies than any other team in the NFL, let's stop retreading coaches and find a hungry young coach who has a proven record of building winning teams.
ding ding
Even the last two SB teams, you have to acknowledge those are two titles won in an era where there are few dominant teams, and arguably easier to win it all.
The days of TC are closing in on ten years in the rear view. This entire franchise should be self-scouting better than it has been.
And people find fault with the Giants in this situation? You people have lost your heads.
IMO - It is critical that they blend together. IMO You cannot have a hard line. The coach should have a say in player acquisition - in some cases the final say.
The GM should have input into who plays, in some cases they may have the final say.
In the end, it comes down to maintaining a good working relationship between the GM and the HC. Hopefully, there is a general alignment of philosophy and mutual trust and respect.
Remember, we hired Shurmur one day after Schwartz handed him his lunch in the NFC Championship game. I never understood why we did that.
His game awareness in the super bowl? That game was 41-33. Was there even a punt? Are you even being serious here?
Shurmur - 17–42 (.288) as a Head Coach
Schwartz - 29–52 (.358) as a Head Coach
This is just another confirmation of the same thing.
Focus on the big picture people. The Giants have been left behind by the rest of the NFL like its 1973 all over again.
That's the problem and how you wound up with Shurmur and Gettleman.
This is just another confirmation of the same thing.
Focus on the big picture people. The Giants have been left behind by the rest of the NFL like its 1973 all over again.
That's the problem and how you wound up with Shurmur and Gettleman.
A fourth hand story on sports radio is not the same thing as telling a loser douche like Schwartz to pound sand when he demands total control.
Up 38-33 with 2 minutes left and NE getting the ball, Schwartz knew the Eagles could win the Super Bowl if one of two things happened:
1. Philly forced a turnover
2. NE scored quickly enough to let Foles back on the field with time to drive for the win
Schwartz knew Belichick wouldn't fuck up the clock management as Brady marched down the field for the winning TD, so he went all out after Brady. NFL Films picked up what he said to Pederson: "Either we're going to make a play or you're going to get the ball back with time to score."
Now this decision making calculus might seem obvious to anyone that's played Madden, but we have seen numerous examples around the league (and several including our horrendous coach) where coaches do not even enter into this level of game management.
Schwartz wasn't the head coach. He was the DC in the biggest game of his life, and he knew how to manage the game. That already makes him a better head coach candidate than Shurmur, who would fuck up a cup of coffee and then blame his rookie QB for it.
And there will always be mistakes along the way, as there have been here.
Do they still use rotary phones and Beta VCRs at the Giants' offices?
And people find fault with the Giants in this situation? You people have lost your heads.
Someone could start a thread talking about hiring Herm Edwards and people would find a way to shit on the team for it.
It's madness.
The horse is dead and the drum is on its 1,546 skin and some of these guys still act like they have ground-breaking insight to share.
What is the average tenure of an NFL GM?
NY Giants GM?
Giant's ownership is going to give him at least 5 years.
Is what it is.
After next year the book on his first draft will plainly evident. More importantly after next year we will know enough about Daniel Jones.
If Daniel Jones does not develop into what we expect him to, I think DG will be on the hot seat.
That said, I think the problem is higher than DG.
I wish they would sell the team to Bezos.