for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Face Saving Way To Tank Without In Season Firing?

Trainmaster : 11/18/2019 2:22 pm
While I would love for the Giants to turn things around with a 6 game winning streak to close out the 2019 season with Daniel Jones getting the Offensive ROY Award in the process, the reality is the Giants will win zero to three more games (Redskins, Dolphins and maybe Bears).

Assuming a successful 2019 season is a lost cause, what actions / outcomes put the Giants in the best position for 2020?

The most important 2020 item has already happened; Daniel Jones is getting valuable playing experience and seems to be the starter for 2020 and beyond. Among the other key items for 2020 (some seem to be mutually exclusive), not necessarily in any order:

1) Get as many rookies and less experienced players as much playing experience as possible via siting starters / veterans who are not in the team’s long term plans (Bethea, Jenkins, Remmers) even if the 2019 season record suffers (could be considered “tanking”)

2) Rest injured stars / key starters (e.g. Barkley, Shepard, Engram) for the rest of 2019 to minimize risks of additional injury / less than full recovery (could be considered “tanking”)

3) Ensure Shurmur is not the Giants head coach in 2020:

a) If 1) and / or 2) above are adopted, does that increase the chance Shurmur will be back in 2020 (since he didn’t have “all hands on deck allowing him to win the most games). If true, don’t do 1) and 2) to increase chance of Shurmur’s end of season firing.

b) Don’t do 1) and 2) and if the team loses ugly in the next 3 weeks, hope for an in season firing of Shurmur, then do 1) and 2).

In summary, I think the most important item for 2020 is Shurmur getting fired. I doubt Mara fires consecutive head coaches before the end of their second season, therefore I think “tanking” is too risky as it will give Mara an excuse to keep Shurmur for 2020. Therefore I think we’ll see more of Barkley, Shepard and Engram in 2019, and we won’t see Love, Beal, Ballentine, Gage, Slade etc. early as much as we’d like.
lose out Shurmur and the staff gets fired  
larryflower37 : 11/18/2019 3:22 pm : link
we end up with Chase Young.
The talent would remain and hopefully with a coach that can maximize it.
Whatever gets Mara to wake up  
Go Terps : 11/18/2019 3:27 pm : link
The organization needs to be completely restructured.

I don't think a 2-14 record is going to be enough. There needs to be another level of humiliation because I don't think Mara is living in reality.
owners should fire them immediately  
mdc1 : 11/18/2019 3:52 pm : link
and begin the coaching search, seems like they need more time given the hideous job done over the last several iterations. why waste time on guys that can't win. We can lose with other incompetent coaches too, idea is to get better. I wonder sometimes they intentionally drag their heels to insure their search limits their choices (ever notice how easy it is to get our guy?)
RE: lose out Shurmur and the staff gets fired  
mdc1 : 11/18/2019 3:53 pm : link
In comment 14682877 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
we end up with Chase Young.
The talent would remain and hopefully with a coach that can maximize it.


trade down.
I don’t like the idea of sitting guys who are  
ron mexico : 11/18/2019 4:15 pm : link
Just dinged up. It sets a bad precedent that the players who will be here in the future will remember.
I think it would be a mistake to try to tank. What a terrible example  
yatqb : 11/18/2019 4:17 pm : link
to a team of kids. I think we can lose without tanking AND along the way get plenty of playing time for the kids. We’re doing it already.
RE: I think it would be a mistake to try to tank. What a terrible example  
japanhead : 11/18/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14682935 yatqb said:
Quote:
to a team of kids. I think we can lose without tanking AND along the way get plenty of playing time for the kids. We’re doing it already.


this. shurmur's in-game coaching prowess will see to the tank. no need to sit anyone to accomplish it.
RE: I think it would be a mistake to try to tank. What a terrible example  
mdc1 : 11/18/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14682935 yatqb said:
Quote:
to a team of kids. I think we can lose without tanking AND along the way get plenty of playing time for the kids. We’re doing it already.


this one of the curious areas always bothering me, we see this cog-and-wheel attitude, do not doing anything exceptional (get rid of aging QB, fire coach, etc) or reach for exceptional capability; while we are already circling the drain. Unreal. I call it denial int that things are not broken or not broken that badly when it is really messed up.

on firing Shurmur  
jestersdead : 11/18/2019 4:42 pm : link
take it for what its worth. Through family friends I know someone that works in the organization. My friend ran into his friend (in the org) over the weekend. This person told him that Shurmur is going to finish the season and then will be fired. Mara won't give Shurmur the satisfaction of letting him off the hook or something along those lines. Sounds like this is based on comments Shurmur made to Mara and player personnel on getting his guys on the field
ASSHAT ALERT!!!!  
japanhead : 11/18/2019 4:50 pm : link
...
RE: on firing Shurmur  
flycatcher : 11/18/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14682960 jestersdead said:
Quote:
take it for what its worth. Through family friends I know someone that works in the organization. My friend ran into his friend (in the org) over the weekend. This person told him that Shurmur is going to finish the season and then will be fired. Mara won't give Shurmur the satisfaction of letting him off the hook or something along those lines. Sounds like this is based on comments Shurmur made to Mara and player personnel on getting his guys on the field

Thanks for posting - but:
- who exactly are Shurm's "guys"?
- how is firing him before season's end "letting him off the hook"?
RE: Whatever gets Mara to wake up  
Klaatu : 11/18/2019 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14682882 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The organization needs to be completely restructured.

I don't think a 2-14 record is going to be enough. There needs to be another level of humiliation because I don't think Mara is living in reality.


Is there another level of humiliation? We got clobbered by the Cardinals, hosed by the Jets, and thoroughly outclassed twice by the Cowboys. Let's face it, we really should be 1-9. We could conceivably end up 4-12 if we can somehow manage to beat the Dolphins and Redskins, but still...if that doesn't prompt Mara to clean house, what will? 0-16?

Don't answer that.
RE: I don’t like the idea of sitting guys who are  
joeinpa : 11/18/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14682931 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Just dinged up. It sets a bad precedent that the players who will be here in the future will remember.


Ron 100%. Fans just don’t think like players and coaches. These guys want to win now, the most important game is the next one. Hell I felt the same way as a high school athlete and later as a coach.

If Barkley sat out when he could play, as many of you suggested Beckham did, how is that good for the organization.

Furthermore, why not do everything in your power to win now. Suppose they go 4-2 with a win over the Eagles, yes unlikely, but if that happened wouldn’t that be proof positive they are headed in the correct direction and that the disruption of beginning over again next year with a new coach could be avoided

I d say the most important thing is winning the next 6 games, even more important than firing Shurmur.
RE: on firing Shurmur  
Blue21 : 11/18/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14682960 jestersdead said:
Quote:
take it for what its worth. Through family friends I know someone that works in the organization. My friend ran into his friend (in the org) over the weekend. This person told him that Shurmur is going to finish the season and then will be fired. Mara won't give Shurmur the satisfaction of letting him off the hook or something along those lines. Sounds like this is based on comments Shurmur made to Mara and player personnel on getting his guys on the field


Gotta admit. Although I am skeptical it wouldn't surprise me. The Jet's game may have put Mara over the edge. He's an owner and a fan like we are. Maybe he feels even stronger about it than many on here. It might take more than beating the Redskins and the Dolphins to keep Shurmur and beating those two teams isn't a definite. Mara just might hate his game management and some of his play calling as much as we do.
No team is going  
Gman11 : 11/18/2019 6:21 pm : link
to lose on purpose. Too many jobs are at stake based on wins and losses.

As for Shurmur, unless there's some personality conflict with Gettleman or Mara I think he stays one more season. But, I thought the team would never trade Beckham so what do I know.
RE: RE: on firing Shurmur  
jestersdead : 11/18/2019 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14682999 flycatcher said:
Quote:
In comment 14682960 jestersdead said:


Quote:


take it for what its worth. Through family friends I know someone that works in the organization. My friend ran into his friend (in the org) over the weekend. This person told him that Shurmur is going to finish the season and then will be fired. Mara won't give Shurmur the satisfaction of letting him off the hook or something along those lines. Sounds like this is based on comments Shurmur made to Mara and player personnel on getting his guys on the field


Thanks for posting - but:
- who exactly are Shurm's "guys"?
- how is firing him before season's end "letting him off the hook"?


Since I wasn't part of the conversation I didn't get to ask those questions. The comment was only passed along to me. I'd imagine firing him now relieves him of some of the media comments for his poor game management? Much easier to sit back and relax when you don't have to be in a press conference answering for your mistakes
joeinpa  
Go Terps : 11/18/2019 7:35 pm : link
Quote:
Furthermore, why not do everything in your power to win now. Suppose they go 4-2 with a win over the Eagles, yes unlikely, but if that happened wouldn’t that be proof positive they are headed in the correct direction and that the disruption of beginning over again next year with a new coach could be avoided


This is the trap people fell into last offseason based on a few games at the end of the year. Check out the thread below from last December...we had people taking victory laps over point totals.

The die is cast this season...there is no redeeming this performance.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: joeinpa  
joeinpa : 11/19/2019 7:12 am : link
In comment 14683151 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


Furthermore, why not do everything in your power to win now. Suppose they go 4-2 with a win over the Eagles, yes unlikely, but if that happened wouldn’t that be proof positive they are headed in the correct direction and that the disruption of beginning over again next year with a new coach could be avoided



This is the trap people fell into last offseason based on a few games at the end of the year. Check out the thread below from last December...we had people taking victory laps over point totals.

The die is cast this season...there is no redeeming this performance. Link - ( New Window )


I do remember that. But as has been pointed those wins game against teams playing with back up quarterbacks. I don’t remember buyinto into the idea that they had things turned in the right direction at the end of las season

Here s the thing Terps: I think you re more than likely correct about Shurmur .

I guess the Pt to the OP is’ my rooting interest for the last 6 games is for him to prove us wrong
Only see one more win  
gmenatlarge : 11/19/2019 9:51 am : link
maybe the Redskins but it will be in DC, Dolphins are playing inspired with Fitz and the Bears will destroy this woeful O-line! Remember the Giants are a get-right team!
RE: on firing Shurmur  
Optimus-NY : 11/19/2019 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14682960 jestersdead said:
Quote:
take it for what its worth. Through family friends I know someone that works in the organization. My friend ran into his friend (in the org) over the weekend. This person told him that Shurmur is going to finish the season and then will be fired. Mara won't give Shurmur the satisfaction of letting him off the hook or something along those lines. Sounds like this is based on comments Shurmur made to Mara and player personnel on getting his guys on the field


Good riddance to bad rubbish.
try to tank/try to win  
fkap : 11/20/2019 10:53 am : link
is there any difference with this team?

I'm thinking PS's best shot at returning is changing up the roster and altering the approach to the game (something visible to the fans like giving up play calling, or not visible to the fans behind the scenes planning). He's obviously not winning with the current cast, so he has to show willingness to try something new.
Back to the Corner