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What changed this franchise around in 1981 was LT. Obtaining

plato : 11/18/2019 5:58 pm
a player who could turn the entire NFL upside down, a player of historical talent was the major factor and the wisdom and luck to use the second pick in the draft to draft him. In retrospect it looks easy but it wasn’t.

Sure George Young was critical, but it took 5 years for Simms to be an NFL qb, and for Parcells to overcome his mistakes and personal losses, etc.But the Giants would never become that great team of the 80’s without LT, the player of the century or more. That’s what we need now, that kind of football player. Sadly they are very very rare. Saquon might be one, but I doubt anyone else on the team or within its sight can be.
LT was like a  
EJJ : 11/18/2019 6:06 pm : link
Super hero sent to save the NY Giants. He was a once in a life time player. I agreed a game wrecker would go a long was to fixing the NY Giants.
There will never be another player like LT! Hopefully the Giants can  
SterlingArcher : 11/18/2019 6:11 pm : link
find a player close to his talent.
Well yeah. Duh.  
George : 11/18/2019 6:14 pm : link
But acquiring Rob Carpenter sure didn’t hurt.
RE: Well yeah. Duh.  
JINTin Adirondacks : 11/18/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14683057 George said:
Quote:
But acquiring Rob Carpenter sure didn’t hurt.
Very correct sir, Carpenter never has received his just due in the turn around of the Giants he added a element that had been absent a good while.It was as if a switch had been flicked offensively.
Having Big Bill and Little Bill on the coaching staff  
Pork Chop : 11/18/2019 6:21 pm : link
may have had something to do with the turnaround too
LT was a once in a liftetime player  
steve in ky : 11/18/2019 6:22 pm : link
I'm not going to hold my breath on not only the NFL seeing his equal any time soon, but that also the Giants are the team to draft him if he were to appear.

Reese left the organization very bare of talent, it takes time to replenish that. And while this team needs a lot to improve to where they are again playoff team, at least IMO they got the biggest hurdle out of the way, the next franchise QB. Now they have to keep adding enough building blocks of other talent around him.

Of course it would be great for them to draft the next LT, it goes without saying, but realistically that isn't the path required to return to a winning team. A lot of other teams have gotten there without LT, and even when we had him the Giants only won two championships in his thirteen years with the organization.

We need more talent on this roster and likely a new coaching staff.
I'd settle for...  
Johnny5 : 11/18/2019 6:26 pm : link
... a set of coaches that I actually have confidence in...
Reasons, banks, Carson.....  
thrunthrublue : 11/18/2019 6:42 pm : link
Howard, martin.......and yes, LT, this, was an entire band of bad ass, attacking, ball separating evil intentioned hitters. Not one similar player on this current giants team. This shurmur led group of softies are all in a protocol, of losing. The giants need a top to bottom change, or they will spend the next 7 years, just like the last 7.....being horrifically awful.
RE: There will never be another player like LT! Hopefully the Giants can  
Karl Hungus : 11/18/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14683050 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
find a player close to his talent.


Of course there will never be another player like LT. If there was another LT in this day and age, he would be fined and suspended into Oblivion.
That whole defense  
giantsFC : 11/18/2019 10:31 pm : link
Was an amazing group of unheard of talent. And back then, the core stayed together due to lack of free agency options.

Even role playing guys like Terry Kinard were far superior
Well, it's true that the greatest NFL defender ever  
81_Great_Dane : 11/18/2019 10:37 pm : link
helped the Giants turn the franchise around. (Even though Parcells' crummy first season came with LT on the team.) That's not really a repeatable strategy.

Someone on here called Chase Young the best ER prospect since LT. I don't know whether that's true, or whether he's really that good. But suppose the Giants take him.

If he's a 9-time Pro Bowler but never All-Pro, though we'd be thrilled, he's not LT.

If he's an All-Pro, say, five times, we'd be ecstatic, but not HOF, then he's still not LT.

If he's a first-ballot HOFer, we'd be in awe, but he's still not LT.

If he's in the conversation for GOAT, then he might be LT. Maybe.

Like I said, not really a repeatable strategy.
LT was not an “edge rusher”, he was an outside LB’er who could play  
plato : 11/18/2019 11:40 pm : link
the run, cover like a great safety/cb, rush the passer. No questions there.

As for Big Bill he made some colossal mistakes eg Brunner over Simms, threatening to leave, just look at his coming and not coming to the giants (and staying at USAF academy) and his peripatetic college career and playing career. Freshman year at Colgate( I was there) and then Wichita State, etc etc.

Little Bill and his photographic memory helped greatly to make Big Bill. The old canard that Big Bill never won a championship without little Bill maybe old, but it’s true and might be saying something about each.

Anyway the current Giants need something's both in the talent level and in the coaching arena, where they desperately creativity and leadership which I have come to agree with many here that PS lacks.

This weekend game in Chicago will be telling. It will be cold, hitting will hurt as will catching and holding on to the ball, there will be wind hindering the passing game, the giants running game is in the toilet, and they have come out asleep for the first quarter repeatedly. That can all be worse after a bye week. It could spell curtains for PS at end of season if not sooner.

We desperately need a redeemer in Blue, i don’t know how that happens as LT is history. So EG is drafting as he should and is building a seeming solid base of new talent. It’s going to take more time.
RE: Well yeah. Duh.  
leinad : 11/19/2019 12:01 am : link
In comment 14683057 George said:
Quote:
But acquiring Rob Carpenter sure didn’t hurt.


that was the start of it!
The modern NFL  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/19/2019 12:01 am : link
Is what LT envisioned and innovated, with disguised blitzes, overloading blitzes, proliferation of personnel sub-packages, attacking mismatches...

It's certainly not coincidence you had the greatest player, a HoF coach with the greatest coaching tree, and the greatest HC all working together for many years in the early prime of their careers.
It all started with Ralph Heck  
yalebowl : 11/19/2019 12:09 am : link
Before LT there were linebackers like Matt Hazeltine, a castoff from I think the 49ers. Ralph Heck, Jim Files, Roger Hornsby, and Pat Hughes.

Then came Brian Kelley and Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt. And then LT.

Gary Reasons and Pepper Johnson came along to replace Brian Kelley. And Carl Banks replaced Brad Van Pelt.

Backups were Byron Hunt, Andy Headen, and Steve DeOssie. And a young Jessie Armistead was the last addition to the LT era.

It was all about the linebackers.
So it was talented players...  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2019 7:43 am : link
the same thing that will save the Giants again - if they can find it.
Anyone who was at those games...  
x meadowlander : 11/19/2019 9:18 am : link
...knows it was the arrival of Rob Carpenter that changed the dynamic of the team in real time.

LT's arrival can't be understated. That defense went from good to explosive overnight. There were still weaknesses, but big plays were far more frequent once LT manned that WLB spot.

It's hard to put into words how frustrating it was to be completely unable to execute on offense. The running game was God-awful. It changed the moment Carpenter arrived - sustained drives were suddenly not only possible, but expected.

The drama of the franchise through the George Young gears was wonderful, and I hope we are as fortunate to see diamonds from the coal of a bad generation of team management.
LT had many skills ... but his greatest assets were passion and will.  
Spider56 : 11/19/2019 9:21 am : link
He imposed his will on the offense both mentally and physically. I don’t think we’ll ever see another LT but some of the players today show me similar heart ... I think Jamaal Adams from the Jests is one, Jaylon Smith from the Cowboys is another ...There are others in the league that make average defenses look very good.
I would say George Young and Ray Perkins  
larryflower37 : 11/19/2019 10:27 am : link
turned this team around.
I don't think Perkins get enough credit for the start of it all.
RE: LT had many skills ... but his greatest assets were passion and will.  
Optimus-NY : 11/20/2019 2:54 am : link
In comment 14683462 Spider56 said:
Quote:
He imposed his will on the offense both mentally and physically. I don’t think we’ll ever see another LT but some of the players today show me similar heart ... I think Jamaal Adams from the Jests is one, Jaylon Smith from the Cowboys is another ...There are others in the league that make average defenses look very good.


Man, Adams is a FUN player to watch. Different motor on that guy than on others.
RE: I would say George Young and Ray Perkins  
Raultney : 11/20/2019 3:12 am : link
In comment 14683550 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
turned this team around.
I don't think Perkins get enough credit for the start of it all.

He sure doesn't. That 1981 season was insane for those of us who had been dying on the vine for years with this team.

Let's face it, though, after 'The Fumble' in '78, this team had nowhere to go but up.

I have no idea what kind of mega-disaster it's going to take this time.
RE: RE: LT had many skills ... but his greatest assets were passion and will.  
Eman11 : 11/20/2019 7:34 am : link
In comment 14684280 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14683462 Spider56 said:


Quote:


He imposed his will on the offense both mentally and physically. I don’t think we’ll ever see another LT but some of the players today show me similar heart ... I think Jamaal Adams from the Jests is one, Jaylon Smith from the Cowboys is another ...There are others in the league that make average defenses look very good.



Man, Adams is a FUN player to watch. Different motor on that guy than on others.


Yeah he is and he's got a DC who knows how to use him to get the max out of his skills.
RE: RE: I would say George Young and Ray Perkins  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/20/2019 7:45 am : link
In comment 14684284 Raultney said:
Quote:
In comment 14683550 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


turned this team around.
I don't think Perkins get enough credit for the start of it all.


He sure doesn't. That 1981 season was insane for those of us who had been dying on the vine for years with this team.

Let's face it, though, after 'The Fumble' in '78, this team had nowhere to go but up.

I have no idea what kind of mega-disaster it's going to take this time.


You missed the mega disaster? It already happened, even if it wasn't a single catastrophic event like "the fumble."

The disaster most recently was Eric Flowers and Bobby Hart starting at OT with an immobile Eli Manning at QB.

It got Reese and Ross shit canned tout suite. You don't can a GM with 2 SB rings in just a few seasons on the job, without a serious "catastrophe" in evidence. Like 7 years of horrid drafting.
RE: I would say George Young and Ray Perkins  
steve in ky : 11/20/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14683550 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
turned this team around.
I don't think Perkins get enough credit for the start of it all.


I agree about Perkins not getting enough credit, I have said the same thing many times myself. He was a huge difference maker at the hardest time to be one.
Perkins going back to Alabama  
arniefez : 11/20/2019 11:32 am : link
doesn't get enough credit. He did a good job and won a playoff game after the long lost weekend. But he was no Bill Parcells.
It's a combination...  
TheEvilLurker : 11/20/2019 11:39 am : link
Being able to and drafting LT, along with the coaching to be able to let him do what he did. In other words, giving LT the leeway to become LT.

Saquon may be that type of player, but I don't think we have the coaches to allow Saquon to be Saquon.
RE: RE: RE: I would say George Young and Ray Perkins  
Raultney : 11/21/2019 12:36 am : link
In comment 14684327 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
You missed the mega disaster? It already happened, even if it wasn't a single catastrophic event like "the fumble."

The disaster most recently was Eric Flowers and Bobby Hart starting at OT with an immobile Eli Manning at QB.

It got Reese and Ross shit canned tout suite. You don't can a GM with 2 SB rings in just a few seasons on the job, without a serious "catastrophe" in evidence. Like 7 years of horrid drafting.


And where are we now? Apparently, the Flowers/Hart combo resulting in a shitcanning of front office personnel has not come anywhere near to fixing the problem. The current state of the Giants tells me the issues start higher up.
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