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NFT: MLB thread. Jeter headlines 2020 HOF list

superspynyg : 11/18/2019 6:59 pm
Along with Bobby Aubreu and Josh Beckett


Jeter is a first year selection. Will he match Rivera in %?

Who else will get in this year?? Manny? Konerko?
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Manny has no chance  
Greg from LI : 11/18/2019 7:04 pm : link
so long as guys like Bonds and Clemens don't make it.
Andruw Jones should get in as well  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2019 7:04 pm : link
Along with Jeter and Rolen.
Jeter should get in  
jlukes : 11/18/2019 7:04 pm : link
1st ballot he'll get just because of his mystique, but he shouldn't get anywhere near the percentage Mo got
Jeter should be unanimous  
Hsilwek92 : 11/18/2019 7:10 pm : link
But he won’t, because, the BBWA is filled with curmudgeon cunts.

Moonface Beckett should get into the HOF...if he buys a ticket that is.

Manny won’t get in for another 3 or 4 years.

Abreu, not this year.

Konerko, no shot.
What is Chone Figgins  
Strahan91 : 11/18/2019 7:14 pm : link
doing on the ballot?
He was a HOF pain in the ass when he played the Yankees?  
Hsilwek92 : 11/18/2019 7:16 pm : link
That’s all I have.
Jeter  
MookGiants : 11/18/2019 7:17 pm : link
shouldn't be 1st ballot based on the way the past voting has gone. He's not the best shortstop of all time. I want the unanimous to be saved for the best of all time at their position. Rivera without question was that
My ballot  
pjcas18 : 11/18/2019 7:26 pm : link
In no specific order


Clemens
Bonds
Manny
Schilling
Jeter

and I think Helton, need to check his splits, but I think HOF without researching.

Guys like Rolen, Sheffield, Konerko, etc. no from me.

Larry Walker I need to look at more too. I hate holding home park against these guys, many players hit better at home, but Coors is Coors.


RE: Jeter  
UConn4523 : 11/18/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14683133 MookGiants said:
Quote:
shouldn't be 1st ballot based on the way the past voting has gone. He's not the best shortstop of all time. I want the unanimous to be saved for the best of all time at their position. Rivera without question was that


He can be first ballot (he should) without it being unanimous.

And there’s a lot more to Jeter than SS of the Yankees. He was larger than life for an extended period of time, thrived in NY, was part of the core (the leader) that went onto dominance, and was so damn clutch. Basically every intangible you can possibly come up with he was the poster child of.
Jeter was never the best at his position  
Hsilwek92 : 11/18/2019 7:30 pm : link
My opinion of him being qualified for a unanimous decision is that, he was one of the, if not the face of baseball for years. He was constantly written off as washed up as he aged, yet, continued to prove doubters wrong (a narrative quite similar to what Brady faces when he has a stinker or two these days).

I’m not naive enough to think that he will be voted in unanimously. Just my opinion that he should be based upon what he brought to Major League Baseball on and off the field.
RE: Jeter  
section125 : 11/18/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14683133 MookGiants said:
Quote:
shouldn't be 1st ballot based on the way the past voting has gone. He's not the best shortstop of all time. I want the unanimous to be saved for the best of all time at their position. Rivera without question was that


You mean unanimous, not 1st ballot. He is definitely 1st ballot.
I’m keeping an eye on the Veterans Committee vote.  
bceagle05 : 11/18/2019 7:31 pm : link
Or whatever they’re calling it now. Munson and Mattingly are on it. What an incredible day in Yankee history that would be if multiple team captains went in. Munson probably has a better chance than Donnie.
Mattingly is my favorite Yankee ever  
Hsilwek92 : 11/18/2019 7:38 pm : link
But I’ve given up on him getting in. If he had played in ‘96 and won a World Series, he’d probably have a good shot considering his and Puckett’s stats were similar and, Puckett got in.

Also, how in the blue fuck did Mattingly not win the MVP in ‘86? Robbery.
Section  
MookGiants : 11/18/2019 7:40 pm : link
yes my bad screwed that up. 1st ballot yes, unanimous no
Jeter is the only No doubt  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/18/2019 7:56 pm : link
Guy on the list. I hope and pray that douche Schilling doesn’t make it in the same class as Jeter. Fuck that guy.
Giambi  
jestersdead : 11/18/2019 9:12 pm : link
is a first time ballot guy who the writer believes has a chance, along with Alfonso Soriano.

Quote:
As far as the non-Jeter portion of the rookie class, there are no other slam-dunk selections. Using the Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor -- a rough scale in which a player scoring over 100 is likely to be inducted and a player under 100 is less likely -- these are the first-timers with the highest scores:

Jason Giambi: 108

Alfonso Soriano: 105


If Jason Giambi gets in over Bonds and Clemens the baseball writer association is pathetic
RE: Giambi  
section125 : 11/18/2019 9:56 pm : link
In comment 14683240 jestersdead said:
Quote:
is a first time ballot guy who the writer believes has a chance, along with Alfonso Soriano.



Quote:


As far as the non-Jeter portion of the rookie class, there are no other slam-dunk selections. Using the Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor -- a rough scale in which a player scoring over 100 is likely to be inducted and a player under 100 is less likely -- these are the first-timers with the highest scores:

Jason Giambi: 108

Alfonso Soriano: 105



If Jason Giambi gets in over Bonds and Clemens the baseball writer association is pathetic


Bonds and Clemens are Hall of Famers, but the steroids will keep them out a little while more. They belong in, maybe after Piazza got in, they will get in. I know there was nothing on Piazza, just rumors, but BBWAA held it against him. Bonds and Clemens are different, so while they definitely belong in Cooperstown, BBWAA is pretty vindictive.
Will those voting for Jeter get....  
MOOPS : 11/19/2019 2:56 am : link
a gift basket filled with autographed memorabilia?
Just looked at the list.  
section125 : 11/19/2019 7:20 am : link
Whoa, pretty pathetic. Jeter is the only real HoFer on that list. Giambi maybe. The rest, no.

May help Munson and Mattingly.
RE: Just looked at the list.  
superspynyg : 11/19/2019 7:44 am : link
In comment 14683359 section125 said:
Quote:
Whoa, pretty pathetic. Jeter is the only real HoFer on that list. Giambi maybe. The rest, no.

May help Munson and Mattingly.


I think both get in on the old timers vote. Munson deserves it and I am hopeful for Mattingly.
RE: Just looked at the list.  
pjcas18 : 11/19/2019 8:13 am : link
In comment 14683359 section125 said:
Quote:
Whoa, pretty pathetic. Jeter is the only real HoFer on that list. Giambi maybe. The rest, no.

May help Munson and Mattingly.


Total list or first timers?

Hard to see which list you think Giambi is a maybe but Bonds and Clemens are no's. unless you just mean first timers.

And I don't think Giabmi is a maybe, he's an easy no (for me) not even anything to do with steroids, his numbers just don't support it.
RE: RE: Just looked at the list.  
section125 : 11/19/2019 8:23 am : link
In comment 14683386 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

Total list or first timers?

Hard to see which list you think Giambi is a maybe but Bonds and Clemens are no's. unless you just mean first timers.

And I don't think Giabmi is a maybe, he's an easy no (for me) not even anything to do with steroids, his numbers just don't support it.


Regular list...Jeter is the only HoFer listed. Giambi, IMHO, is the next best player listed and that is why I said maybe.
RE: RE: RE: Just looked at the list.  
pjcas18 : 11/19/2019 8:28 am : link
In comment 14683392 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14683386 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



Total list or first timers?

Hard to see which list you think Giambi is a maybe but Bonds and Clemens are no's. unless you just mean first timers.

And I don't think Giabmi is a maybe, he's an easy no (for me) not even anything to do with steroids, his numbers just don't support it.



Regular list...Jeter is the only HoFer listed. Giambi, IMHO, is the next best player listed and that is why I said maybe.


So, you think Giambi is a maybe, but Bonds and Clemens are not HOFers?

Strange take.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Just looked at the list.  
section125 : 11/19/2019 8:33 am : link
In comment 14683393 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14683392 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14683386 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



Total list or first timers?

Hard to see which list you think Giambi is a maybe but Bonds and Clemens are no's. unless you just mean first timers.

And I don't think Giabmi is a maybe, he's an easy no (for me) not even anything to do with steroids, his numbers just don't support it.



Regular list...Jeter is the only HoFer listed. Giambi, IMHO, is the next best player listed and that is why I said maybe.



So, you think Giambi is a maybe, but Bonds and Clemens are not HOFers?

Strange take.


I already said(See above posts) the Bonds and Clemens should be in, and might be, since they voted in Piazza. But I expect it to go close to the 10 year mark before BBWAA relents.
I think I can get persuaded  
pjcas18 : 11/19/2019 10:21 am : link
that Billy Wagner belongs. Relievers are hard to judge since save totals were the main tracking device, but probably shouldn't be the only one.

Wagners career numbers place him among the elite closers.

So my list is:

Clemens
Bonds
Schilling
Jeter
Manny

and maybes on Wagner and Helton. Since I can vote 10, I'd probably include both - but need more research.

Giambi isn't close (for me)

My ballot:  
Metnut : 11/19/2019 10:26 am : link
Clemens
Bonds
Schilling
Jeter
Walker (career bWAR of 72.7)
Wagner (far better numbers than Hoffman)
Manny
I like Larry Walker too...  
Dunedin81 : 11/19/2019 10:39 am : link
but if you're going to put him in you've got to give Scott Rolen a long look. Comparable bWAR w/o the park factors, strong prime, career clearly cut short by injuries but long enough.
Jeter is a clear first ballot...  
Dunedin81 : 11/19/2019 10:40 am : link
I get that he was a bad defensive shortstop who stayed on the position a decade longer than he should have, but those teams were powered largely by getting elite offensive production from primarily defensive positions, catcher and shortstop.
It's just embarrassing...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2019 12:03 pm : link
that Schilling hasn't been elected.

It's so obvious his politics are derailing him. He was a tremendous pitcher in both the regular and post-season.
RE: It's just embarrassing...  
figgy2989 : 11/19/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14683681 bw in dc said:
Quote:
that Schilling hasn't been elected.

It's so obvious his politics are derailing him. He was a tremendous pitcher in both the regular and post-season.


I also think he burned a lot of bridges in the media.
the next 2 months of Jeter arguments  
bigbluehoya : 11/19/2019 12:11 pm : link
in baseball social/media will be tiresome to say the least.

I anticipate that the % will come in artificially low, given the obvious opportunity for voters to sandbag him, write a masturbatory article explaining their poorly veiled disdain for the Yankees, and then watch the clicks and likes and retweets pour in from Yankee haters at large.

Couldn't care less about what % of the vote he actually gets, but it'll be pretty fucking silly if he's not first ballot.
Jeter is definitely a HOF'er  
figgy2989 : 11/19/2019 12:14 pm : link
And a no doubt first ballot. As others have mentioned above, he should not be a unanimous decision (nor do I believe he will be), but fist ballot absolutely.
RE: It's just embarrassing...  
Hsilwek92 : 11/19/2019 11:10 pm : link
In comment 14683681 bw in dc said:
Quote:
that Schilling hasn't been elected.

It's so obvious his politics are derailing him. He was a tremendous pitcher in both the regular and post-season.


Eh, politics or not, he was always a giant CU Next Tuesday.

Glad he’s been snubbed so far.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/20/2019 8:37 am : link
they will have a situation when Big Papi is up for enshrinement. That's when you'll have the cases for Clemens and Bonds to be strongest, because you know they want to elect that cuddly piece of shit in.
Politics should have no say  
section125 : 11/20/2019 9:04 am : link
in the voting, but BBWAA is political. Schilling, love him or hate him, is most certainly a HoF pitcher.

Yeah, I'd vote for:
Jeter
Bonds
Clemens
Schilling

Manny may get in..
RE: I think..  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14684361 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
they will have a situation when Big Papi is up for enshrinement. That's when you'll have the cases for Clemens and Bonds to be strongest, because you know they want to elect that cuddly piece of shit in.


MLB has been covering up for Shrek for over a decade, so I don't see them stopping now.
Schilling has a strong case...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 9:17 am : link
but he was not a first ballot guy anyway. I think he should ultimately get in, but when you're a borderline candidate and you're a dickhead first and foremost to the entity responsible for voting you in you've got no one to blame but yourself.
RE: RE: I think..  
section125 : 11/20/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14684405 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14684361 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


they will have a situation when Big Papi is up for enshrinement. That's when you'll have the cases for Clemens and Bonds to be strongest, because you know they want to elect that cuddly piece of shit in.



MLB has been covering up for Shrek for over a decade, so I don't see them stopping now.


He is extremely popular with the players and other fans. I know we don't like him because he got away with it, his name covered up by Selig, and his miraculous rise from the ashes in the DR dispensaries on numerous occasions.
Sadly, he will get in and ARod will not, even when Bonds and Clemens do...ARod's antics that cost him the year were likely the final nail in the coffin with BBWAA.
I know I'm in a minority  
Jay in Toronto : 11/20/2019 9:22 am : link
but I believe HOFs should also reflect character.

For me it would keep Schilling out and Jeter not unanimous (when compared to Mariano).
Jeter's baseball character..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/20/2019 9:27 am : link
is pretty damn strong. Making it out like he's some low character guy is BS. He endured playing in NY his entire career without a scandal or whispers of him being a bad guy. The best people can point to is gift baskets for women.

We can debate how kindness is bad character.....
RE: I know I'm in a minority  
section125 : 11/20/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14684425 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
but I believe HOFs should also reflect character.

For me it would keep Schilling out and Jeter not unanimous (when compared to Mariano).


So you are keeping Ty Cobb out and maybe even Babe Ruth? They should keep Schilling out for his political rants because they are opposite of many of the writers(likely happening anyway)? Where does it end? I can see it in a very borderline candidate that may have brought dishonor to MLB.



Anyone who has  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/20/2019 10:15 am : link
Jason Giambi as a Hall of Famer over Manny Ramírez is clueless.
RE: Andruw Jones should get in as well  
Carson53 : 11/20/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14683118 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Along with Jeter and Rolen.
.

Don't agree on either. Jeter might be the only player
to get in this year, from the actual vote.
A couple others might get in from the
'Modern Day Committee".
Schilling is the closest and really treading water...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 1:38 pm : link
I suppose Larry Walker could close the gap. I think Rolen will make some significant gains with the ballot glut cleared up a bit. But yeah, could just be Jeter.
RE: Schilling is the closest and really treading water...  
Carson53 : 11/20/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14684801 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
I suppose Larry Walker could close the gap. I think Rolen will make some significant gains with the ballot glut cleared up a bit. But yeah, could just be Jeter.
.

I think Schilling will get in next year,
don't particularly care for the guy, but whatever.
RE: I know I'm in a minority  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14684425 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
but I believe HOFs should also reflect character.

For me it would keep Schilling out and Jeter not unanimous (when compared to Mariano).


What exactly in Schilling's character should keep him out of the MLB HOF?

You don't agree with his politics?
He had a failed business venture?

His ALS charity?

Strange post.
He's an asshole in his public persona...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 1:53 pm : link
he's a charitable asshole and that is laudable, but some of the things he has said and done go beyond his simply being a man of the political right.
RE: He's an asshole in his public persona...  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14684815 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
he's a charitable asshole and that is laudable, but some of the things he has said and done go beyond his simply being a man of the political right.


but to speak to his character enough that says he should be kept out of the HOF because he's an asshole? (assuming you believe his baseball merits inclusion)

I think people who feel this way are creating an untenable slippery slope.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the veterans  
Mad Mike : 11/20/2019 2:09 pm : link
committee votes in the future. There's a pretty long list of guys who have fallen (or will) off the writers' ballot who are pretty clearly superior to Harold Baines. Are all these guys going to get in now? And that's not even considering the no-doubt guys who are kept out because of PED's.
I personally would vote for him...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 2:14 pm : link
but when you wear apparel cracking jokes about hanging journalists it's not a surprise why a voting body comprised of JOURNALISTS would decline to pay you that honor.
the whole unanimous thing is stupid  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/20/2019 2:18 pm : link
Jeter should be unanimous, but then again so should a shitload of other greats from the past.

The only argument against Jeter being a 1st ballot HOFer from a voter is "I didn't want to make him unanimous because of precedent". 100% vs. 98%, who cares. Jeter was an awesome player and absolute legend.
Switching gears a little...  
Dunedin81 : 11/20/2019 4:50 pm : link
these comments about the upcoming CBA negotiations are unsettling, to say the least.
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