**If we can leave the bash/praise Gettleman overall stuff to the other threads.**
I'm not sure where I fall on the trade, but I think we all agree the trade's success depends on Williams being extended.
I fear Williams has the leverage. Gettleman would have a lot to answer for if he gave up a 3rd round pick for half a season.
Positives for the Giants:
- right to franchise or transition
- 8 game tryout to gauge fit
- he knows the area and no move required
Negatives:
- ~18M tag and risk of alienating Williams
- Williams might assess the situation and want no part of it
- He might command a position topping contract with over 1.5B open cap space in the NFL this year alone
I don't see how it's in Williams's interest to extend without testing the market. I think the only good outcome for the Giants is a fair, below market setting deal, otherwise let him walk.
What factors am I missing?
NFW. That is a bargain. The annual is starting at $17M.
I think we need to pay the guy though. He has been a good player for us and we need to start to keep players. I think he could be a core player and the 3rd & 4th round pick would be worth it. Yes you can find good players in those rounds but you have a guaranteed good player you keep him. He hasn't been great but he is really good and he gives the effort.
I’m surprised that some are willing to break the bank for Golden. He has seemed to be a bit of a letdown to me. Williams is 25 and Golden is 28, Golden plays a position that needs to produce sacks where Williams is mostly more of a interior lineman type. Williams has 17 sacks total and Golden has 25 total. Williams also has over 100 more tackles. I’m comparing the players and I shouldn’t. We own the trade, but it wasn’t the Giants that picked him 6th overall. If I was going to pay one it would be Williams easily. I might be trying to be way too optimistic but I have high hopes for Williams. Regardless, I wouldn’t have made the trade though.
The Jets were actively shopping LW. If the Giants didn’t trade for him, someone else would have. Then that team would have the inside track on extending him or franchising him if needed.
The Giants aren’t going to sign him to a “fair” deal. They’re going to have to overpay, the question is how much. Ultimately it won’t matter if he plays to his potential.
It may surprise you to learn that good teams occasionally draft players in the 3rd round who can contribute at a fraction of what it will cost to keep Williams.
Quote:
People are so hung up on the picks. If you think he can be a core player you go get him.
You can go get him in free agency too, and nothing Leonard Williams has done in his NFL career to date would indicate that he's worth such a price. This is all based on projection for a guy in his fifth professional season.
The rest of my post explained why they couldn’t just “go get him” in free agency.
The Jets were shopping him and the Giants weren’t the only team interested in him. If he’s traded elsewhere he’s not likely to even hit the market.
LW aligns philosophically with what DG is trying to build. Look at the other guys he’s acquired along the defensive front. He’s young, stops the run, and pressures the QB. The sack production hasn’t been there, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be there as DG continues to build around that front.
Quote:
People are so hung up on the picks. If you think he can be a core player you go get him.
The Jets were actively shopping LW. If the Giants didn’t trade for him, someone else would have. Then that team would have the inside track on extending him or franchising him if needed.
The Giants aren’t going to sign him to a “fair” deal. They’re going to have to overpay, the question is how much. Ultimately it won’t matter if he plays to his potential.
What does overpay mean?
It means an amount that you and probably a bunch of others will be bitching about in BBI in March.
Pointing out poor allocations of capital when the person's job it is to allocate capital properly has made various missteps I'm not sure how you could call that bitching. Now, the constant complaints about legitimate criticisms of a losing team that seems to execute poorly in certain areas especially, I think to me, that seems a lot more like bitching
Quote:
In comment 14683795 WillVAB said:
Quote:
People are so hung up on the picks. If you think he can be a core player you go get him.
The Jets were actively shopping LW. If the Giants didn’t trade for him, someone else would have. Then that team would have the inside track on extending him or franchising him if needed.
The Giants aren’t going to sign him to a “fair” deal. They’re going to have to overpay, the question is how much. Ultimately it won’t matter if he plays to his potential.
What does overpay mean?
It means an amount that you and probably a bunch of others will be bitching about in BBI in March.
Man, you just aim to crush it with subtle analysis and cogent points.
But really, what do you think is a good value for this player? Even an overpay, do you even have a sense of what that might be?
To this point, DG has sucked at it.
Relative to his draft slot and his hype entering the league, he's absolutely an underachiever. That doesn't make him a bad player, and his initial draft slot isn't that significant since we weren't the team that drafted him #6 overall. But for what he's been vs. what he was supposed to be, he has not lived up to expectations. That's the definition of an underachiever.
I'd label him an underachiever so far in the NFL.
Btw, humorously enough Jarrett is the son of Jessie Tuggle, longtime player for the Falcs a couple of decades ago. How often does that happen?
Sure there is. Forget the contract and draft compensation for a moment. Just look at Williams through simple supply and demand.
DL is actually a position where we seem to have a nice blend of quality and quantity. And a lot of it is young. So why in the hell would we add a player to that mix? Espeically one with uneven production, questionable motor, and ready to cash in?
There are a lot more holes to plug and fix. Glaring holes. So this is setting up as just example of poor asset and roster management by Gettleman.
Simple question - is the projected $17M for LW better off on solving OL, LB, etc or pumping more money into a good group of DLs?
Answer seems very obvious...
Quote:
In comment 14683801 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14683795 WillVAB said:
Quote:
People are so hung up on the picks. If you think he can be a core player you go get him.
The Jets were actively shopping LW. If the Giants didn’t trade for him, someone else would have. Then that team would have the inside track on extending him or franchising him if needed.
The Giants aren’t going to sign him to a “fair” deal. They’re going to have to overpay, the question is how much. Ultimately it won’t matter if he plays to his potential.
What does overpay mean?
It means an amount that you and probably a bunch of others will be bitching about in BBI in March.
Man, you just aim to crush it with subtle analysis and cogent points.
But really, what do you think is a good value for this player? Even an overpay, do you even have a sense of what that might be?
If I had to guess I’d say he’s looking at 15-18 mil per year. 16 mil is the high end for a 3-4 DE.
The value will come if he’s a good two way DE who can increase the sack totals. Or if he’s a good two way DE that opens up opportunities for other players to make plays.
At a minimum, the Giants have a young, solid, 3-4 DE that’s pretty good vs the run and pushes the pocket/gets pressure. That has value. Will he live up to a big deal? We’ll see, but I feel like he’s a safer pay than the Vernon signing.
When you’re a bad team you have to overpay in FA if you want a guy. You’re not getting a hometown discount to play for a loser and/or rebuild. These guys are competitors and want to win.
Ultimately it won’t matter if he produces. It won’t matter if the team wins. The contract will only be an issue if he/team sucks and/or he’s injured all the time. We’ll see.