Let’s make a distinction here. It takes time to get build a foundation where the team is a legitimate contender, I think we all agree. That’s not the issue here. The issue is that what SHOULDN’T take years and years is raising the team out the basement. Making enough improvements that you aren’t among the 2, 3, or 4 worst teams in the league. Most teams will hit there for a year, often due to injuries. Right now, we can safely say there are two teams worse than us –The Bengals and the Skins, that’s it. Others seem to be at a similar level, but those are the only two who are comfortably worse. The Oakland Raiders, for example, seemed to be coming from a similar situation to us. They traded away multiple of their top players in exchange for picks. Where are they now? They have a winning record and are in the mix in division race. Why wasn’t all this time needed for them to improve?
Regarding the talent, though I do agree, it feels like drafts have improved, I’m going to take a wait and see on this. Truth is, this is the same spot we were in when this group took over, and it’s the same culprits –the Oline and defense. Two pick rich drafts and FA periods in, there has been opportunities to add talent and begin building a foundation. Regarding FA, JR’s drafts were horrible, but he did make some impactful acquisitions in FA and probably grades higher in this area than DG has at this point. A major contributing factor to why we remain where we are is that despite all the hog molly talk, the strategy for addressing the team’s biggest need -Oline- has been largely based on FA acquisitions, which have not panned out. Consequently, the Oline still requires much work requiring all of starter talent, youth, and depth. Defense wise –where are the playmakers? Dallas rebuilt their defense over the past couple drafts and has managed to add players who make plays for them. Our defensive “talent” has been largely invisible when it comes to making impact plays. Say what you want, but though players do need time to develop to a point of consistency, legit talent usually shows signs of playmaking ability early.
All that said, I would not be shocked to see this team finish stronger than people believe. No real reason for this, just a hunch. What it comes to, in my eyes is, we have six games to prove that the arrow is pointing up. That was the mission from the start –through ten games, we simply haven’t shown that. I’ll reserve judgement to see what happens down the stretch, but this is NOT a time for patience. The call is for urgency.
This season turned on the Arizona game. That was when any path to minimum 7 wins went bye bye.
The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around
The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around
The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around
The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser.
Also, the secondary, where we spent a lot of draft and trade capital, is full of first year players. They are mostly not ready to really contribute yet and we don’t know if they will. Another place where we have unknowns.
some would say DG's first year was half assed under the mistaken view he could fix things on the fly. When that proved false, he had to start over with a full tear down, making this the defacto year one of a rebuild.
Others say it's the coaching, and with a good coach, there would be more W's.
Others say a rookie QB is to blame.
Others point to a lack of talent.
It's a nasty combination of a lot of things.
Although I do want a coaching shakeup, but I'd rather not go the Raider model of changing coaches as often as one changes underwear.
Fuck this coaching staff and being patient.
The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around
The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around
The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around
The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser.
Haven’t looked at it like this but they are all fair points.
1983 disagrees with the OP. 3 years after 1983, Parcells hoisted the Lombardi.
What matters is not finishing in the middle of the pack, it's building properly and when horrible seasons come, MAKING BANK on the resulting draft position.
Giants have Carter, Hill, Hernandez and Barkley from 18', Jones, Lawrence, Baker, Ximinez, Love, Connelly, Slayton, Ballentine from this seasons draft.
Give me another draft like either of those and I'll show you 7-9 or 9-7. Give me two drafts like that and I'll show you 10-12 wins and deep playoffs.
Nothing like that exists now, or when DG took the team over. If Orlando Pace had been available he’d have tried to land him. Instead he signed the best available LT, but a guy who hasn’t played as well with us as in prior years.
And we sure needed more than 3 players—we were devoid of talent.
lousy OL-no dependable run game, poor pass pro
lousy DL-no pass rush when needed,
invisible LB- poor against run and pass
lousy secondary- receivers running wide open
It all adds up to 2-14, maybe 3-13 that doesn't look like any kind of rebuilding to me!
Fuck this coaching staff and being patient.
No, they really don't have enough talent for that. Between the OL, WRs, LBs, DEs, and the secondary, there are a LOT of players starting for the Giants who would be hard-pressed to even make a roster of a winning team.
-DG
Honestly, you have two choices. Be patient, or find something else to do. In reality, there isn't much else that can be done for fans.
-The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around - the 49ers haven't had a winning season in 5 years. In that time frame they have been through 4 coaches. Shanahan was 10-22 prior to this year. This is his 3rd year as HC.
-The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around - the Colts have had 2 losing seasons since 2002. They made the playoffs 13 times in the time frame and won the Super Bowl in 2009 and made the AFC championship in 2014. Not sure they were spiraling. Although - I will say Reich has done a nice job.
-The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around. The Bills have 3 winning seasons the last 19 years. They have made playoffs once during that span. They have been through 10 head coaches during that span. They have never won a Super Bowl. Prior to this year McDermott is 15-17.
-The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt. - I don't get the Titans. What a mediocre franchise. Vrabel was 9-7 last year. Mike Mularkey was the HC before him for two years. Both years he went 9-7. Vrabel is 5-5 this year. They have never won a Super Bowl.
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated - Since 2002 the Dolphins have made the playoffs twice and have 5 winning seasons. They have had 9 HC during that span.
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser. Since 2005 the Giants have 5 losing seasons. All of them have come since 2013. During that time period the Giants have had 3 HC. They have made the playoffs 6 times and won 2 Super Bowls during that time period.
I'm all for comparing frachises - I think that adds some perspective to a good ol fashion bitch fest.
I agree with this.
Shurmur sucks. He plays his one scheme regardless of the players and talent he has. Plus he offer zero motivation, and his in game adjustments don't exist.
What I laugh at is seeing people use SF as some great model of running a franchise. They have drafted at the top of the draft for years. They handed out some bad contracts like McKinnon. When you are in salary cap hell and are void of talent then, yes, it takes years to turn a team around. The book is not yet written on Gettleman but when people argue some of his moves it is like they expected him to bat 1.000. No GM bats 1.000. There will always be hits and misses.
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but if Shurmur was the real deal, we'd be seeing more progress by now. That patience is mostly exhausted.
I agree with this.
So ... do you think the fine folks in SF felt the same way about Kyle Shanahan going into this year? After all, the 49ers were 10-22 under excellent coaching prowess the two years prior.
Removing Coughlin but Not Reese and Ross.
McAdoo was not the answer
Removing Reese and Ross....
I felt Dave Gettleman needed 3 years
We are in our 2nd if 3
Also, totally sucking, losing, winning like Oakland, winning like Seattle, and winning like NE.
We are somewhere in the totally sucking and losing catagory...
But do we really want winning like Oakland? They are not beating good teams.....not sure they have a longterm answer at QB....
the minimum i want....is winning with sone hope of winning Super Bowl.
Never expect to see NE again....but give me Seattle winning....can beat anyone...fun to watch...
I expect him not to hit like a pitcher, but he hasn't been able to pull that off yet.
The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around
The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around
The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around
The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser.
None of those teams are breaking in a rookie QB or trying to rebuild from a bottom 2 roster, except the Dolphins who have an equal number of wins.
The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around
The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around
The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around
The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser.
In my opinion, every time you fire a coach AND get a new QB at the same time (or near each other), you're resetting the clock.
lousy OL-no dependable run game, poor pass pro
lousy DL-no pass rush when needed,
invisible LB- poor against run and pass
lousy secondary- receivers running wide open
It all adds up to 2-14, maybe 3-13 that doesn't look like any kind of rebuilding to me!
THIS!
What I laugh at is seeing people use SF as some great model of running a franchise. They have drafted at the top of the draft for years. They handed out some bad contracts like McKinnon. When you are in salary cap hell and are void of talent then, yes, it takes years to turn a team around. The book is not yet written on Gettleman but when people argue some of his moves it is like they expected him to bat 1.000. No GM bats 1.000. There will always be hits and misses.
What they say publicly is a different story. They still have to sell tickets and try to keep fans happy. Not one team will tell it like it is. we are going to really suck this year but next year we should be improved because we will have a Top pick again and lots of money to spend in FA.
Why would fans pay to go to the games if they were told the product would suck? DG is a smart man, he knows the talent on this team better than anyone. This is not a playoff roster. We were saddled with dead money and a lot of other issues when DG arrived. We traded away aging overpriced vets that were not part of the long term solution. They resigned OBJ I believe thinking he was going to be a long term piece but he was a head case and the relationship was broken so we traded him for what seems like a pretty good deal based on the current info.
We had a few bad FA misses but none are really going to hurt moving forward, they can be cleared off the books and we can now start to move forward. Shurmur to this point has not shown to be a good coach but most coaches look terrible with terrible talent. Coughlin looked terrible his last few years, he had nothing to work with. This roster either has a rookie or 1st year player or a JAG for the most part. Any talent on O has mainly been injured and we have never played with our starting 11. On D, we have no pass rush and no LBs. We are playing with in season pickups at LB.
DG has made mistakes but he also seems to have some big hits. If Jones continues to build on his success so far he may be a huge win. Getting a franchise QB is the most important piece of the puzzle. i dont agree with everything he does but at least he makes changes when things dont go right. i think 1 more year with the current staff needs to happen so we can stabilize the team. With another high pick and FA money year 3 should be a playoff contender.
-The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around - the 49ers haven't had a winning season in 5 years. In that time frame they have been through 4 coaches. Shanahan was 10-22 prior to this year. This is his 3rd year as HC.
-The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around - the Colts have had 2 losing seasons since 2002. They made the playoffs 13 times in the time frame and won the Super Bowl in 2009 and made the AFC championship in 2014. Not sure they were spiraling. Although - I will say Reich has done a nice job.
-The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around. The Bills have 3 winning seasons the last 19 years. They have made playoffs once during that span. They have been through 10 head coaches during that span. They have never won a Super Bowl. Prior to this year McDermott is 15-17.
-The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt. - I don't get the Titans. What a mediocre franchise. Vrabel was 9-7 last year. Mike Mularkey was the HC before him for two years. Both years he went 9-7. Vrabel is 5-5 this year. They have never won a Super Bowl.
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated - Since 2002 the Dolphins have made the playoffs twice and have 5 winning seasons. They have had 9 HC during that span.
The Giants have stunk for YEARS are are getting worse. Shurmur is a loser. Since 2005 the Giants have 5 losing seasons. All of them have come since 2013. During that time period the Giants have had 3 HC. They have made the playoffs 6 times and won 2 Super Bowls during that time period.
I'm all for comparing frachises - I think that adds some perspective to a good ol fashion bitch fest.
This is a good post. You don't need to be a fan of the current organization or coaching to have a little perspective
Hmmmm....I remember quite a few people (not you, I'm making a general statement here) predicting playoffs before last season - remember the talk of the "Eli Revenge Tour"?
And then there were more than a few people talking about contending for the playoffs this year. Not just before the season but when they were 2-2.
Anything can happen, but I will be absolutely stunned if this team isn't straight garbage again next year.
Giants have Carter, Hill, Hernandez and Barkley from 18', Jones, Lawrence, Baker, Ximinez, Love, Connelly, Slayton, Ballentine from this seasons draft.
More than half the guys you listed here haven't proven to be even average NFL rotational players yet.
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The Raiders were a joke, Gruden has turned it around
The 49ers were a joke, Shanahan has turned it around
The Colts were spiraling, Reich turned it around
The Bills stunk for 2 decades, McDermott is turning it around
The Titans have a bad roster, Vrabel is keeping them in the hunt
The Dolphins are openly tanking, Flores is keeping that team motivated
None of those teams are breaking in a rookie QB or trying to rebuild from a bottom 2 roster, except the Dolphins who have an equal number of wins.
This is what folks want to ignore and what was mentioned in the "the current state of neurosis on BBI" OP. All those teams had at least some core players in place before their current regimes took over. The Giants had OBJ.
Here's a list of teams that have won MORE Super Bowls than the Giants in the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have played in MORE Super Bowls than the Giants the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have won MORE Super Bowls than the Giants in the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have played in MORE Super Bowls than the Giants the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Change that to seven years and run another calculation please.
Here's a list of teams that have won MORE Super Bowls than the Giants in the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have played in MORE Super Bowls than the Giants the past 11 years:
The Patriots
The Giants made the playoffs twice in those 11 years. That the 2011 caught fire in the playoffs and won a fluke championship doesn't negate the fact that the organization, as a whole, has been a miserable failure for a decade.
Here's a list of teams that have won MORE Super Bowls than the Giants in the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have played in MORE Super Bowls than the Giants the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Along with not very good in 2012 and 2014. Shurmer has not shown this team on the upswing. He seems clueless in how to use Barkley. Remember when Chip Kelly Signed Demarco Murray in Filthy? He used Murray in such a bizarre way. Shurmer is doing the same thing with Barkley. Remember who Chip Kelly's OC was? Pat Shurmer.
Here's a list of teams that have won MORE Super Bowls than the Giants in the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams that have played in MORE Super Bowls than the Giants the past 11 years:
The Patriots
Here's a list of teams with fewer wins than the Giants since 2012:
Raiders, Bucs, Jaguars, Jets, Browns
Here's the list since 2017:
None.
Right! Rabble Rabble Rabble! Now what?