Hello again BBI, Thanks for all the reactions both good and bad to my first post. I have seen many "a wall of text" posts on here before and the negative reactions they induce. So, you can imagine my horror when I hit the send button and saw that monstrosity come up. It was cringe worthy and I knew I was really in for it.
Those initial responses were warranted and quite hilarious. I think many of you are bionically wired to this site. There were like 7 responses before I could even get back in to see the post. Like instantaneous responses, amazing stuff. A special shout out to Greg from LI. I have seen you lambast many a poster over the years. You are certainly quite a piece of work. I absolutely laughed out loud when I read your "Gettleman's dad" post. Some seriously funny stuff.
The reality is I hold no particular allegiance to Mr Gettleman. I could care less if a BBI member's mom becomes our GM, as long as she can get the job done. Competence is all I demand. I am single minded in my desire for the Football Giants. I want a truly great and dominant team once again before I drop. 1986 great, the only dominant team since I have been a fan. So my purpose was hardly to promote the greatness of Mr. Gettleman. I simply call it like I see it, and what I see is he has put us in one of those rare envious positions that do not come along very often. I am on the fence just as much as anyone, so yes, he has to finish the job, period.
My primary desire for this team in the coming two years is to replace five starters on each side of the ball. Ten players total. There were quite a few complaints about me using only two rebuilds to state my case. I could use a hundred but it would take two weeks to write and a day to read. It all becomes redundant. I chose those two examples for very specific reasons. I thought more people would understand my logic in doing so.
So I will return to the Cowboys to finish my thought. That envious position we are in right now is so similar to the position the Jones/Johnson Cowboys were at in 1991. Just different circumstances in a different era of player acquisition. No, we do not posses 11 picks in the first four rounds of this up coming draft, like they did. Likewise, they did not posses the opportunity to acquire players through free agency. it did not exist yet.
We have many key elements in place right now. They are primally all young just starting their careers. I stated earlier we need 10 more players to finish the job. If DG does what I hope he will do, jettison the remaining veteran dead wood, we will have nearly a hundred mil to play with this off-season. There is no reason why we can't fill at least 6 if not more of those positions, the assets are there in cash and picks. Hell, maybe we hit on a few mid rounders again reminiscent of Slayton and Connors. The Cowboys had assets in place very similar to ours in 1991 and they filled their roster out nicely that year. The following off-season they finished the job and went on to win it all.
I know exactly what this team needs to comlete this roster. Sy and Eric both know. From all the great daily draft and free agent posts, it is obvious most of BBI knows the remaining needs of our team. So if we all know as fans, I can't help but believe that Gettleman knows as well. And there-in lies my optimism. The old dude got us here, I think he finishes the job.
So I close with this caveat. If Mr. Gettleman fails and is not all I hope and believe him to be, then Gettleman loses, the Giants lose and we all collectively lose. It means another regime change with a new demarcation line and more years of crappy football. And quite frankly, I'm getting old. So here's to DG being the real deal coupled with a successful off-season. Since we are currently stuck with such awful football, I am so looking forward to it.
My biggest concern is coaching. I'd like to see known coaches with a track record of developing talent in place.
I to put my trust in DG to fix this mess THIS off season with solid free agent pick ups and more starting quality draft picks. Fingers crossed!
1. Run the Ball
2. Stop the Run
3. Rush the Passer.
I think part of our problems are that, DG is trying to appease the coaching staff with getting some of their guys to help run and teach their systems, unfortunately it isn't working to well. All the AZ guys for our defense and the only one paying dividends is Golden.
Shurmur has an amazing RB in Barkley and he forgot how to use him. The first 2 games of the year, Barkley was a force on the opening offensive drives, then he does nothing. Part of the reason Jones is having a good amount of success is because teams are looking to shut down the run, even in the spread shotgun formation, which means tough treading for Barkley.
Shurmur needs to do more in the way of running the ball to help both his RB, QB and O Line. We are giving up a ton of sacks and QB hits. Dropping back to throw over 35 times a game shouldn't be part of the game plan. We need to run the ball with intent and play keep away. The formation needs to change, a TE or 2, a FB, a pulling Guard, adjustments need to be made.
I guess what I am getting at, I agree that Gettlemen is drafting well, and has hit on a few free agents, but he needs to get his coach to change his philosophy a little, commit to the run a little more.
The talent level on this team is not as bad as our coaching ability. Our defensive scheme is complicated and we have 3 5 rookies on the field at the same time. What does Bettcher expect.
Simplify our approach. Coach the players you have, do not force them to try to be 5 year vets. Little Bill in NE knows how to coach the players and put them in a position to succeed.
Shurmur and Bettcher are coaching like they are back next year no matter what. No adjustments, just let the players get experience and it will pay dividends in 2020.
We are already the Browns and Jets.
Build staff that knows how to run outside zone and play action.
Free agents signed - to help get that done. Look at linesmen, tight ends and even running backs .
Draft quick savvy linebackers and lightening fast safeties early and often.
Quote:
all you are doing is becoming the Browns and the Jets.
We are already the Browns and Jets.
+1000 The Browns and Jets are both better than the Giants right now and you want to hold on to that! You can't be afraid to make changes when what you have is painfully obvious NOT working!
I can see where you are trying to connect those dots, and trust me, I'd love for you to be right. But you are missing out a few key factors
- Jimmy Johnson was a significantly better coach than Pat Shurmur. And beyond the X's and O's, remember, Johnson was a key person in college football throughout the 1970s and 1980s in his time at Oklahoma State and then winning titles at Miami. Johnson had his finger on the pulse of what what coming up through the ranks in college, specifically speed. And with all those high picks to work with and augmented by the Herschel Walker trade, Johnson also was in position to know the talent best because he actively recruited a lot of those top players to come to Miami to play for him. He was literally the perfect GM for the Cowboys at the perfect time to pick players who fit what he wanted to do. The Cowboys had lots of high picks and they hit on vast majority of them. That wasn't an accident. They didn't blow top 10 picks on guys like Flowers and Apple.
- Dallas went 1-15 in Johnson's first year in 1989, when he realized he had to blow it all up. The Walker trade super charged things for him and the Cowboys went 7-9 in 1990, his 2nd year. The Cowboys were actually in the playoff picture as a Wild Card into December in 1990. They started to turn the corner in Year 2 and by Year 3 (1991), they went 11-5 and won a playoff game. We've seen the Giants go backwards, even if they are putting in new talent.
- Dallas also came in at a perfect time that the Giants and Redskins 1980s dynasties got old. So by the time that Dallas was ready to rise up, the Giants and Redskins, the powers in the division had crumbled. And the Eagles were deeply flawed, so even when they won, they were never a threat in the playoffs. The Giants are dealing in a division with a Cowboy team that is currently stacked and has their stars in their prime, and an Eagle team which is one of the best run in the NFL (even if Wentz is inconsistent).
I see the Giants closer to the 1995/1996 group which was losing but starting to build a talent base that eventually won the NFC East under Fassel and that core went to the Super Bowl in 2000. I do happen to like the pieces that they are putting in place, but the Giants need one more strong draft and the RIGHT free agent signings, and not quick fix guys to goose the win total in 2020 to save jobs. Meaning, don't play a B level talent in free agency, A level prices to bring him in. That's what got the Giants in the mess they did with Vernon, Snacks, and Jack rabbit where you will regret the $$ spent within 2 years.
I can see where you are trying to connect those dots, and trust me, I'd love for you to be right. But you are missing out a few key factors
- Jimmy Johnson was a significantly better coach than Pat Shurmur. And beyond the X's and O's, remember, Johnson was a key person in college football throughout the 1970s and 1980s in his time at Oklahoma State and then winning titles at Miami. Johnson had his finger on the pulse of what what coming up through the ranks in college, specifically speed. And with all those high picks to work with and augmented by the Herschel Walker trade, Johnson also was in position to know the talent best because he actively recruited a lot of those top players to come to Miami to play for him. He was literally the perfect GM for the Cowboys at the perfect time to pick players who fit what he wanted to do. The Cowboys had lots of high picks and they hit on vast majority of them. That wasn't an accident. They didn't blow top 10 picks on guys like Flowers and Apple.
- Dallas went 1-15 in Johnson's first year in 1989, when he realized he had to blow it all up. The Walker trade super charged things for him and the Cowboys went 7-9 in 1990, his 2nd year. The Cowboys were actually in the playoff picture as a Wild Card into December in 1990. They started to turn the corner in Year 2 and by Year 3 (1991), they went 11-5 and won a playoff game. We've seen the Giants go backwards, even if they are putting in new talent.
- Dallas also came in at a perfect time that the Giants and Redskins 1980s dynasties got old. So by the time that Dallas was ready to rise up, the Giants and Redskins, the powers in the division had crumbled. And the Eagles were deeply flawed, so even when they won, they were never a threat in the playoffs. The Giants are dealing in a division with a Cowboy team that is currently stacked and has their stars in their prime, and an Eagle team which is one of the best run in the NFL (even if Wentz is inconsistent).
I see the Giants closer to the 1995/1996 group which was losing but starting to build a talent base that eventually won the NFC East under Fassel and that core went to the Super Bowl in 2000. I do happen to like the pieces that they are putting in place, but the Giants need one more strong draft and the RIGHT free agent signings, and not quick fix guys to goose the win total in 2020 to save jobs. Meaning, don't play a B level talent in free agency, A level prices to bring him in. That's what got the Giants in the mess they did with Vernon, Snacks, and Jack rabbit where you will regret the $$ spent within 2 years.
great post Matt.
I agree on the free agent approach. I would rather they get young, studs like Justin Simmons and Yannick Ngokoue and pay them well, knowing they will make a difference, not just fill a hole.
You through me a real curve ball on the mention of Flowers and Apple. They were picked by Reece. What the hell do they have to do with this discussion? DG picked Barkley and Jones. If you are insinuating they are misses, then so be it. Only a lot more time will tell.
The Cowboys and Eagles are stacked? The Cowboys are 6-4 and the Eagles are 5-5. What am I missing here? If their rosters are so stacked and their respective records so pedestrian, then I guess it must be coaching, right?
The Eagles at least won a Bowl a few years back. What the hell have the Cowboys won all these years under Garret with their all world OL, Elliot, Zak and that supposedly stacked D. Once again, is it coaching? I've seen people pining for Garret on here in the past. It's all so very puzzling. Also, I do not think the Giants have gone backwards. We are playing a rookie QB along with a host of kids inserted throughout the roster. This is not the stacked roster Goff and Wentz both joined. Remember, both those franchises gave up a lot to move to the top of the draft to go get those guys.
In the end, does it really matter? Through many a late night debate, I have not been able to persuade one person to my side of the political spectrum either these last three years. Everyone is entrenched in their beliefs. My opinion, I don't think Giant ownership is listening to any of us. I think management sticks for at least another season. In that case, all that matters is how we fare this offseason were we are next year.
My point was comparing the 1991 Cowboys roster and how they didn't miss on high picks. The Giants have been picking high for a while and missed badly in the Reese/Ross drafts. And that I don't see the Giants align as closely with those Cowboy teams but rather closer to the mid 1990s Giants in trying to build towards their late 90s NFC East Title and 2000 Super Bowl run.
And honestly, I thought that Young and Accorsi used free agency right in the mid/late 1990s when instead of signing over the hill guys or names, they would extend longer contracts to young guys who were buried on deep rosters. Specifically signing Robert Harris from the Vikings (stuck behind 2 all pros) and Ron Stone from the Cowboys (same position). They grew with the team. And Accorsi also had a good plan in 2000 by signing stop gaps that didn't have long term exposure in terms of years/dollars (Lomas Brown, Glenn Parker, etc). Throwing big money/ long deals at name players is the 2016 plan and the wrong way to go.
As for the Cowboys and Eagles. I hate them both, like any red blooded Giant fan should. But the Cowboys are on track to have a winning season for the 5th time in 6 years. They have won the NFC East 3 times and I think they will do it again this year. And last year they hung with the Rams in LA for a while until breaking down.
The Eagles have won a Super Bowl, probably should have won in New Orleans in the playoffs last year, and we know they will beat the Giants twice and have yet another winning record.
So the question again relative to the Cowboys in 1991, the Giants are facing tougher competition than Dallas did during their 90s dynasty run. That was my point.