NFT: Mets: Unlikely to re-sign Wheeler per Martino

that he was going to be THE GUY!

But we have only seen glimpses...and frankly.....for most of this past season, his fastball was straight and hittable.

He has great stuff, but he seems to have a glass arm and there are days when he is emminently hittable.

The Mets will do well with deGrom, Thor, Stroman & Matz. They can sign a 5th starter or get one at a more reasonable price because the offense should be much better banking on Cespedes being back.

Wheeler is one of the top 20-25 best SP's in baseball.

on Wheeler? As a Mets fan who has watched Wheeler from his first start to now, the guy was just infuriating to watch. His stuff is top notch but he just never seems to be able to put it all together consistently.

if you expected him to be DeGrom level good then you should be disappointed but if you look at what he's done over the last 2 seasons he's top 20-25 across the board. He's very good.

I think the writer used “relievers” when he meant to say “starters”

Why do I believe we will be taking about DeGrom and his great run, Alonzo and his HR leadership quest, McNeil as a BA champion candidate and...a third place/fourth place finish once again next year...

On Monday, Van Wagenen again pointed to his faith in minor-league options.

David Peterson, a 24-year-old left-hander who made 24 starts for Binghamton in 2019, is one of the relievers Van Wagenen hopes to promote to the big leagues in 2020. The Mets signed Peterson as their first-round draft pick in 2017.

While the potential promotion of Peterson is an encouraging point of discussion, Van Wagenen also mentioned developing – in the same breath, no less – other minor-league relievers who were quite noticeably unsuccessful in the Majors last season. The GM said Chris Flexen, Walker Lockett and Corey Oswalt could provide rotation depth if Wheeler does in fact sign with another team this winter.
“I think the 1-4 with the major league pieces that can convert from bullpen to starters give us a lot of confidence in our rotation,” Van Wagenen said.”
Link - ( New Window )

the advanced stats say but he was never a guy I wanted to see pitching in a big game (unfortunately very few opportunities). I've never seen someone more consistently at 40-50 pitches after 2 innings.

Nothing will change until Wilponzies are gone...

but more as a good #3 or great #4. He’s going to get #1 or #2 money so I would pass and allocate resources elsewhere (bullpen). I think they can find a solid #5 to eat innings and put up respectable numbers. If he’s willing to give the Mets a hometown discount then I’d love to have him back but doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

but given the team's financial constraints, and the fact that Thor and Stroman need to be re-signed soon and will command big contracts, the smart move is to (1) move Lugo to the rotation (which is where he wants to be), (2) spend some $ on the BP (but alot less than the $100M Wheeler is going to get), and (3) save the $ for Thor/Stroman when we'll also have more $ with Cespedes, Lowrie and Ramos off the books. I'll be very surprised if our rotation next year is not DeGrom/Thor/Stroman/Matz/Lugo.

In comment 14684767 nygfaninorlando said:

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but more as a good #3 or great #4. He’s going to get #1 or #2 money so I would pass and allocate resources elsewhere (bullpen). I think they can find a solid #5 to eat innings and put up respectable numbers. If he’s willing to give the Mets a hometown discount then I’d love to have him back but doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

#4? lol yeah okay. Zack Wheeler last 2 seasons

9th in fWAR, 9th in FIP, 12th in innings

On what planet is he a good 3 or great 4?

But I am disappointed.

if Wheeler winds up in the Bronx.
I just don't see the Yanks going all in on Cole,
and I have a feeling that Strasburg will wind up back
with the Nats. It's early in the process, we'll see.

That tweet is later deleted.

Curious as to how this news comes out now! Meaning, Cespedes playing this year means the Wilpons will be on the hook for the $28M and won't collect the insurance money. So they can't "reinvest" that insurance money to other areas on the team.

you can count them on one hand and have fingers left over. He's going to get paid.

I was thinking he would wait it out to see what Cole and Stras got (considering he would be the consolation prize to whoever is left in the FA market for SP). If he is going to be the first one ti sign, any guesses? I am thinking 5yr/$110-$120M range.

most expected this but still sucks. If he gets over $100m I'll be a little understanding.

at all.

I always felt like it would be Wheeler or Stroman and they've shown no signs of trying to deal Stroman.

I just prefer the high velocity pitchers to a guy like Stroman.

In true to my word I won't opine on this transaction (if it even happens) until I see the team the Mets bring to battle in March.

Mets pitcher Drew Gagnon reportedly close to a deal to pitch in Korea
Link - ( New Window )

Has been really good for the Mets the past 2 years. A smart and better run team would have locked him up earlier.

But this is such a Mets move. They will point to “reinvesting the money” and resigning Noah or Stroman down the line. But why would you pick Stroman over Wheeler? And does anyone really think they are going to resign Noah?

It’s a shame because this team could be close but we all they won’t invest the necessary money. Besides Miami, they are now the cheapest team in the NL East. Hard to believe from a New York team.

It's his job to try to paint this as the Wilpon's tried to sign Wheeler, but Zach wasn't interested, but in reality, the Wilpon's had no interest to spend extra and bring Zach back.

New York Mets
@Mets
Infielder Andrés Giménez, RHP Jordan Humphreys, catcher Ali Sánchez and LHP Thomas Szapucki have been added to the 40-man roster. RHP Drew Gagnon has been designated for assignment. Our 40-man roster is now at 40. #Mets

not protected.

In comment 14684882 pjcas18 said:

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not protected.

Never made sense to protect him

In comment 14684882 pjcas18 said:

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not protected.

seems like an odd omission with Mazza, Nogosek, and others on the 40 man that are complete crapshoots, although I guess it's highly unlikely anyone would waste a roster spot on Newton.

In comment 14684883 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14684882 pjcas18 said: Quote: not protected. Never made sense to protect him

He's the only notable player I could find. I agree it didn't make sense for the Mets to protect off him an abysmal 2019, but if you believe the talent is there, one of these years some expected to be awful team is going to field of team of guys like Newton.

and to Eric's point there are bigger wastes of space on the 40-man.

rate in the SAL, 1 steal, not really sure what role he would serve even a bad team.

In comment 14684887 DanMetroMan said:

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rate in the SAL, 1 steal, not really sure what role he would serve even a bad team.

they would have to believe his time in KING is more what they'll get than his time in COL.

but agree, it's a longshot anyone takes him.

In comment 14684816 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

That tweet is later deleted. Curious as to how this news comes out now! Meaning, Cespedes playing this year means the Wilpons will be on the hook for the $28M and won't collect the insurance money. So they can't "reinvest" that insurance money to other areas on the team.

"Reinvest in the team" or put the money in their own pockets?

That one brief shining moment when Harvey and Wheeler threw back to back gems in a double-header vs Atlanta.....that was all the way back in 2013.

In comment 14684890 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 14684887 DanMetroMan said: Quote: rate in the SAL, 1 steal, not really sure what role he would serve even a bad team. they would have to believe his time in KING is more what they'll get than his time in COL. but agree, it's a longshot anyone takes him.

Even his time in Kingsport... 204 ab's 84 k's, he's intriguing for sure but at the MLB level he'd likely be the worst player in all of baseball this season.

Im gonna miss the guy. Loved seeing him battle back from all the injuries and the work he put in to get healthy and how he kept improving. I mean for chistsakes didn't the guy take shots in the stomach every day to strengthen his muscles at one point?

Stroman was definitely acquired as a preemptive move with the potential of this happening in FA. Heck, the Mets weren't even in contention at all at the time he was brought in. At least we QO'd Wheeler and will get a pick back for him.

I like Stroman too though. He's a similar pitcher to Wheeler "now" only with a little less upside.

If we bring in a Keuchel type for the 4/5th spot Ill still think our rotation is pretty close to elite, and possibly even better than last years.

last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF?

Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward.

Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward.

I have seen the Mets give away good efforts by Wheeler. Not a NYM fan, but thought he had upside. They had a great second half surge, kudos for playing hard.

Is going to the rotation. And I think the rotation will still be a strong suit of this team.

In comment 14684927 Metnut said:

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last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF? Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward. Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward.

How much do you think they are getting back if Cespedes plays? Just curious. If Cespedes comes back in the early part of the year, they get nothing. So a few million for Wright?

Anyways, insurance doesnt affect the LT either way.

from Cespedes and Wright in 2019 is already pocketed. They don't have to give that back if Cespedes plays next year. Also, Wright isn't playing next year for sure.

The LT only imposes a "tax" on the overage. You'd have to spend an a truly INSANE amount of money to owe luxury tax equal to the insurance money on Wright alone, even if Cespedes played a full season in 2020.

Ownership is cheap. The Mets are a bubble team and if there was ever a year to try and make a run, this is it. They should be going all-in to try and keep Wheeler and only bow out if he gets a truly insane contract from someone else.

Little nervous about Ryder Ryan. Throws hard and had good numbers in AA.

luxury tax works ZGiants? Just curious.

It's not a magic threshold that once you go over you owe a huge amount. You just owe a % of the amount you go over (which would easily be covered by the Wright insurance money alone). The Mets could easily go over the threshold in 2020 (and pay tax less than the Wright insurance money alone) and easily go below it in 2021 with all the money coming off of the books.

Why do you even defend the Wilpons anyway? I don't understand how any Met fan can do that. Don't you want to see the team make a world series run?

In comment 14684996 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 14684927 Metnut said: Quote: last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF? Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward. Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward. How much do you think they are getting back if Cespedes plays? Just curious. If Cespedes comes back in the early part of the year, they get nothing. So a few million for Wright? Anyways, insurance doesnt affect the LT either way.

The cryptic video aside, there is zero chance he comes back in the early part of the year. I'd be shocked if he comes by the ASB...

In comment 14685004 Metnut said:

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from Cespedes and Wright in 2019 is already pocketed. They don't have to give that back if Cespedes plays next year. Also, Wright isn't playing next year for sure. The LT only imposes a "tax" on the overage. You'd have to spend an a truly INSANE amount of money to owe luxury tax equal to the insurance money on Wright alone, even if Cespedes played a full season in 2020. Ownership is cheap. The Mets are a bubble team and if there was ever a year to try and make a run, this is it. They should be going all-in to try and keep Wheeler and only bow out if he gets a truly insane contract from someone else.

I just dont see a huge difference between Stroman and Wheeler and Stroman isnt exactly cheap in 2020 either. Im going to wait until the offseason is over before I start complaining.

We basically are losing nothing from the 2019 team that won 86 games and the bulk of the lineup is young with arrows pointing upwards. Stroman has already replaced Wheeler and anything we add will only improve the team. No important cogs are walking off. If we dont sign another SP to replace Vargas or try to fix the pen that disappointed Ill be pissed right there with you.

In comment 14685008 Metnut said:

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luxury tax works ZGiants? Just curious. It's not a magic threshold that once you go over you owe a huge amount. You just owe a % of the amount you go over (which would easily be covered by the Wright insurance money alone). The Mets could easily go over the threshold in 2020 (and pay tax less than the Wright insurance money alone) and easily go below it in 2021 with all the money coming off of the books. Why do you even defend the Wilpons anyway? I don't understand how any Met fan can do that. Don't you want to see the team make a world series run?

What are you talking about? Of course I understand how the LT works. First year isnt a huge penalty, I agree but it could add up in coming years, and EVERY TEAM IN BASEBALL practically is trying to stay under it now including the mighty Yankees. Mets will have the 5th highest payroll in the sport. We went out and got Stroman in case Wheeler walked. Maybe he's slightly worse but the offseason just started. Just dont know what you are so furious.

In comment 14685013 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 14684996 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 14684927 Metnut said: Quote: last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF? Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward. Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward. How much do you think they are getting back if Cespedes plays? Just curious. If Cespedes comes back in the early part of the year, they get nothing. So a few million for Wright? Anyways, insurance doesnt affect the LT either way. The cryptic video aside, there is zero chance he comes back in the early part of the year. I'd be shocked if he comes by the ASB...

Huh?? Why? He broke his ankle in May. It takes 11 months for a broken ankle to heal? Since when? And if he's walking on it now and taking batting practice now, Im gonna assume its going to be even better 4-5 months from now.

Why in the world do people say things like this? Zero chance? Based on what? Your brain that has no insider knowledge?

In comment 14685017 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 14685013 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 14684996 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 14684927 Metnut said: Quote: last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF? Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward. Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward. How much do you think they are getting back if Cespedes plays? Just curious. If Cespedes comes back in the early part of the year, they get nothing. So a few million for Wright? Anyways, insurance doesnt affect the LT either way. The cryptic video aside, there is zero chance he comes back in the early part of the year. I'd be shocked if he comes by the ASB... Huh?? Why? He broke his ankle in May. It takes 11 months for a broken ankle to heal? Since when? And if he's walking on it now and taking batting practice now, Im gonna assume its going to be even better 4-5 months from now. Why in the world do people say things like this? Zero chance? Based on what? Your brain that has no insider knowledge?

First off, he's shown to be notoriously slow healer. And what's to say he won't injure himself during rehab, etc?

Obviously if he's healthy he'd be a great addition to the lineup, but I'll believe he'll be back "early" when I see it

Yes, he’s a great pitcher...the second half of the season. Like, really really good. The problem is that he sucks in the first half of the season. It’s awesome that he’s great down the stretch but doesn’t really matter if we miss the playoffs by a couple of games because Wheeler was ineffective in the first half.

He is very inconsistent but has a lot of potential. But he’s also turning 30 next season. What we see is likely what we get. That’s the problem with citing overall stats. Doesn’t really tell the whole picture.

Counting on him to contribute anything next year after like 4 major surgeries would be as stupid as it was to count on him to contribute anything this past year after 2 major surgeries. He hasn't played baseball in 2 years, has been unable to use his legs for the majority of that time, and he simply cannot be counted on to contribute anything meaningful.

In comment 14685036 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 14685017 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 14685013 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 14684996 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 14684927 Metnut said: Quote: last two years with Wheeler breaking out. Now they are going to replace him with someone inferior and hope to improve the results? What kind of plan is that? How can ownership be so cheap? We all know that real payroll is significantly below the luxury tax threshold when you consider the hefty insurance money everyone in the industry says the Mets are getting. WTF? Stroman is only signed for one more year anyway and didn't even look great last year in Queens. What's the long term plan? The team needs Wheeler for more than 2020, they need him going forward. Sure glad we gave up our best prospects to pay $20M+ to Cano. Personally, I'd rather have the prospects and Wheeler going forward. How much do you think they are getting back if Cespedes plays? Just curious. If Cespedes comes back in the early part of the year, they get nothing. So a few million for Wright? Anyways, insurance doesnt affect the LT either way. The cryptic video aside, there is zero chance he comes back in the early part of the year. I'd be shocked if he comes by the ASB... Huh?? Why? He broke his ankle in May. It takes 11 months for a broken ankle to heal? Since when? And if he's walking on it now and taking batting practice now, Im gonna assume its going to be even better 4-5 months from now. Why in the world do people say things like this? Zero chance? Based on what? Your brain that has no insider knowledge? First off, he's shown to be notoriously slow healer. And what's to say he won't injure himself during rehab, etc? Obviously if he's healthy he'd be a great addition to the lineup, but I'll believe he'll be back "early" when I see it

So say that then. Saying there's zero chance he'll be back before the all star game is just completely made up.

In comment 14685099 ZGiants98 said:

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So say that then. Saying there's zero chance he'll be back before the all star game is just completely made up.

I said zero chance for early in the year, and that I'll be shocked before the ASB.

Whatever, fine - there is a slightly greater than zero chance he returns early in the year

In comment 14685073 Eric on Li said:

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Counting on him to contribute anything next year after like 4 major surgeries would be as stupid as it was to count on him to contribute anything this past year after 2 major surgeries. He hasn't played baseball in 2 years, has been unable to use his legs for the majority of that time, and he simply cannot be counted on to contribute anything meaningful.

Four major surgeries? Give me a freaking break. He had a few calcium deposits removed (something he had been playing through for years) to alleviate some pain in his feet and then broke two tiny bones in one ankle (typical ankle fractures heal in SIX WEEKS!)

These are major surgeries?? Ummm no. ACL, Achilles tear, major back surgery, shoulder surgery...Tommy John... those are major surgeries.. Cespedes has had nothing like that at all.

Now its totally fine to expect nothing from him because he hasn't played since 2018. Great! Mets are hedged very well against Cespedes. JD Davis can start in LF. Heck, Id like to see if Dom can stick there too. Then there's Lowrie that could always play 3B with McNeil moving back to LF. That's three very good options without even discussing Cespedes. So no... nobody needs to count on Cespedes.

Im just sick and tired of these ridiculous proclamations about how he's never playing again. He's in a contract year and there's a very good chance he's in the mix this year somewhere. How well he plays is anyone's guess, but we cant just make him disappear and injuries aren't eternal. Especially a freaking broken ankle from 7 months ago.

In comment 14685103 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 14685099 ZGiants98 said: Quote: So say that then. Saying there's zero chance he'll be back before the all star game is just completely made up. I said zero chance for early in the year, and that I'll be shocked before the ASB. Whatever, fine - there is a slightly greater than zero chance he returns early in the year

Im no doctor but typical ankle fractures (without tendon injury) take about 6 weeks to heal. So you're saying it's going to take Cespedes's ankle 15 months to heal (you said mid summer 20 )instead of the "average" 6 weeks? Look, Im not trying to be a dick but that just sounds ridiculous. Just say you dont know, and we'll see how he's progressed probably sometime in February.
Link - ( New Window )

Is definitely viewed as a major surgery. My buddy is an ortho for professional teams and that’s from his words. Subsequent injury depends on whether there was significant ligiment damage. All that said I just can’t get how this guy won’t be ready for start of next season - put me in Z’s camp there. I have said all along, a contract year cespedes is a good thing.

In comment 14685124 bhill410 said:

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Is definitely viewed as a major surgery. My buddy is an ortho for professional teams and that’s from his words. Subsequent injury depends on whether there was significant ligiment damage. All that said I just can’t get how this guy won’t be ready for start of next season - put me in Z’s camp there. I have said all along, a contract year cespedes is a good thing.

Which one? The calcium deposit removal or the initial ankle break? The calcium deposit removal Ive heard can be tricky but it was supposed to help him, not make him worse. Like I said, he was playing through it for years. He also had recovered to the point where he was "running" back in May before the broken ankle nonsense.

I mean guys blow out their ACL's multiple times... have Achilles snap on the field... those are excruciating, very hard to come back from, injuries...

Im not trying to say what Cespedes has dealt with is nothing... but Ive seen WAY worse.

I was told they are annoying rehab wise when just one but real annoying with both. That said he said a normally motivated athlete would have been back last April.

In comment 14685138 bhill410 said:

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I was told they are annoying rehab wise when just one but real annoying with both. That said he said a normally motivated athlete would have been back last April.

Yes and that's exactly what Shecky echoed as well and I believe him. Cespedes was taking his sweet time.

I dont agree with everything the player does... That's a whole other story.

But imo this new broken ankle is not a huge deal. And by now the calcium removal recovery has to be completely over with also.

Its annoying stuff and he has been out for a while, but I wasn't surprised to see him hitting liners yesterday actually. Even in November in the cold.

In comment 14685004 Metnut said:

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from Cespedes and Wright in 2019 is already pocketed. They don't have to give that back if Cespedes plays next year. Also, Wright isn't playing next year for sure. The LT only imposes a "tax" on the overage. You'd have to spend an a truly INSANE amount of money to owe luxury tax equal to the insurance money on Wright alone, even if Cespedes played a full season in 2020. Ownership is cheap. The Mets are a bubble team and if there was ever a year to try and make a run, this is it. They should be going all-in to try and keep Wheeler and only bow out if he gets a truly insane contract from someone else.

Well said and spot on here. The Mets are close- why not go all in for championship? It’s never all about winning for the Mets.

I have no idea how fans defend the Mets owners for not spending. There is no salary cap and the luxury tax isn’t even that big of a deal. ( The Mets have just never paid it and never will). And the idea the Mets have a top 5 payroll is laughable.

when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal.

While I think it's stupid the Mets just don't pay the cash to keep him, I don't think the replacement of Stroman is that much of a downgrade. I think we will see a much better Stroman next year as Keith kept making the point of how difficult it is for players to switch teams mid-season and maintain top performance.

If we upgrade the backend of the rotation with a reliable 4th starter type and move Matz to the 5th man, the rotation overall might be better, especially if Noah bounces back big.

I hope Wheeler goes out to an out of sight place like Minnesota, San Diego or Houston and not NYY or Braves.

Stroman replacing Wheeler is fine in theory but now the question jumps right back to will they resign him? He's a FA next year and they gave up 2 of their top 3 pitching prospects for him.

The Mets organization has a habit of creating their own misfortune. There is no doubt in my mind they could have resigned Wheeler last offseason or even mid-season to a 4 year deal well under $100m. Last year Eovaldi's deal (4/68) was clearly top of the market. But instead they will lose him for a comp pick whose value will likely fall behind the value of the 2 prospects they gave up, and possibly go through the exact same negotiation scenario with his replacement. Rinse and repeat.

Unless BVW gets Stroman signed to a multi-year deal and he goes on to make a few all star games as a Met that trade will be remembered just as badly as dealing off Kelenic.

is going to be to move Lugo to the rotation and sign Betances and even add another pen arm or two.

The FA starters once you get past Wheeler are a pretty lame bunch IMO.

In comment 14685369 Eric on Li said:

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when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal.

Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way, apparently broken bones heal differently based on how their broken? News to me. A breaks a break and we are talking small bones in the ankle area. Apparently Cespedes’s bones cant heal for a minimum of 2 years and calcium deposit removal takes 3 years to recover from. Got it. But appreciate the sarcastic snark per usual.

In comment 14685402 Metnut said:

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is going to be to move Lugo to the rotation and sign Betances and even add another pen arm or two. The FA starters once you get past Wheeler are a pretty lame bunch IMO.

They need to sign one more hopefully. Keuchel of Hamels would be fine by me.

I think David Peterson starting in AAA could offer good backend depth as the year progresses as well.

say what you said last year.

2020 will come down to health of the starting rotation and effectiveness of the bullpen combined with an inexperienced manager.

Last year they have one, not the other, and came up a few games short.

In comment 14685462 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 14685369 Eric on Li said: Quote: when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal. Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way, apparently broken bones heal differently based on how their broken? News to me. A breaks a break and we are talking small bones in the ankle area. Apparently Cespedes’s bones cant heal for a minimum of 2 years and calcium deposit removal takes 3 years to recover from. Got it. But appreciate the sarcastic snark per usual.

Violent fall came directly from Brodie so I'm not sure what the question is? He used the term violent.

I said I “thought” he stepped in a hole and then I immediately followed that up with what does “violent” have to do with heal times ok complete fractures?

Does your comment about something Brody said help clarify my actual point?

and as DMM points out, the term "violent fall" was directly from the Mets. Same as BVW said a couple weeks ago that they aren't even sure if he will play in 2020, apparently despite your optimistic diagnosis.
Yoenis Cespedes Fractures Ankle in ‘Violent’ Fall at His Ranch - ( New Window )

In comment 14685496 ZGiants98 said:

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I said I “thought” he stepped in a hole and then I immediately followed that up with what does “violent” have to do with heal times ok complete fractures? Does your comment about something Brody said help clarify my actual point?

You've got to be kidding me here? You clearly questioned "violent fall"

"Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way..."

Accept you were wrong and move on.

4/$73M.

Not trying to miller the discussion of how severely Ces fell, but thought it was relevant here given that I saw a number of Mets fans wishing for Grandal on a few of the offseason threads.

can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

In comment 14685531 bigbluehoya said:

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4/$73M. Not trying to miller the discussion of how severely Ces fell, but thought it was relevant here given that I saw a number of Mets fans wishing for Grandal on a few of the offseason threads.

Imagine adding Grandal to this team instead of Cano. Would be a game changer.

turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired.

In comment 14685551 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired.

It could just as easily have gone the other way. If he got hurt with a major injury he ends up making less than $60M over 4 years

In comment 14685560 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 14685551 DanMetroMan said: Quote: turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired. It could just as easily have gone the other way. If he got hurt with a major injury he ends up making less than $60M over 4 years

Of course. But he gambled on himself and won. He cited the other top paid C that came before him and how it would be setting a bad precedent. He made the right call.

do anything smart!

In comment 14685532 cactus said:

Quote:

can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

There is no limit. Plus, it's the offseason, it will get better before it gets worse. Not pointing any fingers either, I'm as guilty a miserable Mets fan as the next.

we argue semantics.

he's a very good player who has proven he deserves beyond most doubts, but catchers can age quickly post-30. Lucroy and Posey being 2 recent examples. This organization doesn't have the budget to make another mistake like that after the Cano mistake.

The best thing BVW did last year was cash in on an undervalued pre-breakout young player (JDFD). And it was at the expense of 1 of the best organizations out there. I'd like to see him hang on to Ramos and add a young defensive minded catcher this offseason - like 1 of the guys in Toronto. Dom Smith for 1 of them makes a ton of sense.

pushing for Wheeler too.

They have a lot of payroll flexibility.

on Szapucki. Hopefully this kid took his injury lumps early and that's all behind him now.

Quote:

Mets Farm Report @MetsFarmReport · 5m “With his arm and what you see coming out of it, he’s a big league arm for me.” @AlLeiter22 is big on @ThomasSzapucki .

if this is real, I need to see an explanation.

Bench coach:

Cora
Fredi G.
Narron
Muellens

Pitching:

Hefner
Fetter
Karsay

...

is my guess, Martino has been pushing his candidacy, of course Fetters is a Michigan guy so Fred could push for him.

In comment 14685824 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

if this is real, I need to see an explanation.

doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless the 3 prospects are Bohm, Howard, Medina.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Mets have agreed to terms with Chasen Shreve on a Minors deal. Spring invite for experienced reliever.

He sucks

NEGATIVE 0.5 career fWAR, crappy numbers vs. lefties.

guy, on to fixing the defense.

.

In comment 14685532 cactus said:

Quote:

can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

Welcome to Mets threads! Where irrelevant minutia gets argued to death and context and actual meaning go to die! :)

3 year deal with the White Sox (50 million).

Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
3m
The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal
.

Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total.

In comment 14686686 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO · 3m The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal . Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total.

1 of 11 teams who were at his 11/7 start

In comment 14686690 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 14686686 pjcas18 said: Quote: Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO · 3m The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal . Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total. 1 of 11 teams who were at his 11/7 start

So you're saying there's a chance?

Kim.

will look to pay Ellsbury 0 of his owed 26 million citing his use of outside doctors... Cespedes anyone?

is not a fan of Kim. Big pass for me. Much prefer someone like Hamels or Hill.

Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Mets are one of five teams showing early interestin in Korean left-handed starter Kwang-hyun Kim. Royals, Dodgers, Cubs, and Diamondbacks are the other four teams according to Rosenthal.

said his stuff has declined, his body as declined and he's a 5th SP/swingman to him. Pass.

Many pitchers return from TJ with a new physique thanks to their time away from throwing, during which they’re focused on the rest of their body. That’s not the case here, as Kim’s athleticism is seeping away, his arm slot has lowered a bit, and he’s less balanced over his blocking leg than he used to be. Stuff wise, Kim has a nasty, tilt-a-whirl slider he deploys as his primary swing and miss weapon; the rest of his repertoire (a low-90s fastball, low-70s curveball, and upper-70s changeup) is average or below. It’s a fifth starter/swingman look, barring some kind of velo explosion out of a bullpen.

17-18 million into a player with huge downside and limited upside is silly. Give a guy like Hamels 1 year vs. the risk.

In comment 14686766 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

said his stuff has declined, his body as declined and he's a 5th SP/swingman to him. Pass.

Yeah was just reading his writeup. Think there are better options out there. Even Gio.

In comment 14686740 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

will look to pay Ellsbury 0 of his owed 26 million citing his use of outside doctors... Cespedes anyone?

Yeah, that is why I think the Wilpons don't want Cespedes to ever see the field this year. Try to recoup some money on top of the insurance.

I honestly don't care if Cespedes gets $30M, $20M, $5M or $0 or if the Mets pay him or if the insurance company reimburses the Mets or anything else.

Because regardless if the Mets save any money on his contract or not, it does not seem like it will have any impact on their payroll spending.

So, who cares?

In comment 14686701 ZGiants98 said:

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Kim.

That’s what she said.

That is a good point and I should have said that in my post. It doesn't matter because they don't reinvest any proceeds.

In comment 14686791 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

I honestly don't care if Cespedes gets $30M, $20M, $5M or $0 or if the Mets pay him or if the insurance company reimburses the Mets or anything else. Because regardless if the Mets save any money on his contract or not, it does not seem like it will have any impact on their payroll spending. So, who cares?

This is why I’d rather see Cespedes give it a shot and play. Worst case is that he sucks and doesn’t see the field. Best case is that he rakes and helps the club.

Him sitting out and the Wilpons getting insurance money will only serve to help the Wilpons. Certainly not the team or their payroll flexibility. Although, maybe then those crooks can start paying their part for the Belmont project.

the most value Cespedes has to the Mets is on the field as a contributor.

It would be different for the Mets to fight to void his contract or get insurance reimbursement if it meant reinvesting those recouped funds, but it doesn't so that's where we are.

Cespedes Conforto and Nimmo starting in the OF is best case. McNeil, Rosario, Cano, and Alonso in the infield.

JD Davis, Dom Smith, and Jed Lowrie as backups/fill-ins.

McNeil also an option for OF if it means getting a different player like Lowrie some PT.

based on the roster today.

once they have done whatever their shopping in the offseason. Unlike the Yankees they won't do it now bc they need every ounce of goodwill to convince people they aren't a joke of an organization. They can't play hardball. Same way they couldn't just engage JDG in extension talks at the beginning of last offseason, or before ST, they had to wait until days before the season opener. They don't dictate events, they let events dictate them.

In typical Mets fashion they will probably make it into a PR nightmare right before ST. They will say their drs think X and he/his agent will say Y, and then proceed to do more batting practice videos to prove he's fine.

Contract IMO. Ill stand by that.

My other guess is he's also healthy and ready to go come ST from his previous injuries.

In comment 14686794 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14686701 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Kim. That’s what she said.

;)

Wheeler still a possibility. Even though it's probably slim to none...

“There seems to be a willingness [for Wheeler] to circle back to the Mets,” Heyman wrote. “But it feels like [New York] intends to spread money [towards the bullpen, rotation depth, and centerfield], etc instead.”

With ces. He loses out whatever his agent fee is (10% maybe?) on anything not paid to cespedes.

In comment 14687418 bhill410 said:

Quote:

With ces. He loses out whatever his agent fee is (10% maybe?) on anything not paid to cespedes.

this cannot possibly still be the case.

I would imagine it worked like a commissioned sales rep, once he left CAA any unearned commissions were forfeited.

It would make zero sense for a GM to still get paid commission/fees even if he represented the client initially.

I hope I'm wrong.

Jennifer Mercedes
@Chica_Deportes
Being told that Hensley Meulens will be the new @Mets
bench coach.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Mets have interest in Starling Marte. Fits what they seek — strong defender in CF, righthanded hitter. Pirates still working on manager. Uncertain if he’ll be dealt. Cubs, Reds, Padres among others who will look at center fielders.
1:31 PM · Nov 23, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

he's 31 and likely a 3 fwar player for a couple years. His defense supposedly declined a lot last year (-9 DRS). You can buy that kind of overall production via FA pretty easily, albeit not in CF, but if Marte's defense has regressed in CF is that even a positive? Wouldn't Nimmo (and even Conforto) still be better options in CF?

Would love to add his bat but not sure he does much to address the main weaknesses.

He’s a worse CF than Nimmo and his bat is nothing special. He’s 31 and only going to decline further. Can’t wait to see what BVW gives up this time.

In comment 14687570 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

He’s a worse CF than Nimmo and his bat is nothing special. He’s 31 and only going to decline further. Can’t wait to see what BVW gives up this time.

I don't think this happens, just lipspeak for the fans.

Perfectly happy with Nimmo there

If they are a partner which BVW was. I am sure something needed to be ironed out with Mets ownership prior to joining but I would be shocked he if wasn’t getting any revenue from the players he repped.