NFT: Mets: Unlikely to re-sign Wheeler per Martino

In comment 14685124 bhill410 said:

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Is definitely viewed as a major surgery. My buddy is an ortho for professional teams and that’s from his words. Subsequent injury depends on whether there was significant ligiment damage. All that said I just can’t get how this guy won’t be ready for start of next season - put me in Z’s camp there. I have said all along, a contract year cespedes is a good thing.

Which one? The calcium deposit removal or the initial ankle break? The calcium deposit removal Ive heard can be tricky but it was supposed to help him, not make him worse. Like I said, he was playing through it for years. He also had recovered to the point where he was "running" back in May before the broken ankle nonsense.

I mean guys blow out their ACL's multiple times... have Achilles snap on the field... those are excruciating, very hard to come back from, injuries...

Im not trying to say what Cespedes has dealt with is nothing... but Ive seen WAY worse.

I was told they are annoying rehab wise when just one but real annoying with both. That said he said a normally motivated athlete would have been back last April.

In comment 14685138 bhill410 said:

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I was told they are annoying rehab wise when just one but real annoying with both. That said he said a normally motivated athlete would have been back last April.

Yes and that's exactly what Shecky echoed as well and I believe him. Cespedes was taking his sweet time.

I dont agree with everything the player does... That's a whole other story.

But imo this new broken ankle is not a huge deal. And by now the calcium removal recovery has to be completely over with also.

Its annoying stuff and he has been out for a while, but I wasn't surprised to see him hitting liners yesterday actually. Even in November in the cold.

In comment 14685004 Metnut said:

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from Cespedes and Wright in 2019 is already pocketed. They don't have to give that back if Cespedes plays next year. Also, Wright isn't playing next year for sure. The LT only imposes a "tax" on the overage. You'd have to spend an a truly INSANE amount of money to owe luxury tax equal to the insurance money on Wright alone, even if Cespedes played a full season in 2020. Ownership is cheap. The Mets are a bubble team and if there was ever a year to try and make a run, this is it. They should be going all-in to try and keep Wheeler and only bow out if he gets a truly insane contract from someone else.

Well said and spot on here. The Mets are close- why not go all in for championship? It’s never all about winning for the Mets.

I have no idea how fans defend the Mets owners for not spending. There is no salary cap and the luxury tax isn’t even that big of a deal. ( The Mets have just never paid it and never will). And the idea the Mets have a top 5 payroll is laughable.

when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal.

While I think it's stupid the Mets just don't pay the cash to keep him, I don't think the replacement of Stroman is that much of a downgrade. I think we will see a much better Stroman next year as Keith kept making the point of how difficult it is for players to switch teams mid-season and maintain top performance.

If we upgrade the backend of the rotation with a reliable 4th starter type and move Matz to the 5th man, the rotation overall might be better, especially if Noah bounces back big.

I hope Wheeler goes out to an out of sight place like Minnesota, San Diego or Houston and not NYY or Braves.

Stroman replacing Wheeler is fine in theory but now the question jumps right back to will they resign him? He's a FA next year and they gave up 2 of their top 3 pitching prospects for him.

The Mets organization has a habit of creating their own misfortune. There is no doubt in my mind they could have resigned Wheeler last offseason or even mid-season to a 4 year deal well under $100m. Last year Eovaldi's deal (4/68) was clearly top of the market. But instead they will lose him for a comp pick whose value will likely fall behind the value of the 2 prospects they gave up, and possibly go through the exact same negotiation scenario with his replacement. Rinse and repeat.

Unless BVW gets Stroman signed to a multi-year deal and he goes on to make a few all star games as a Met that trade will be remembered just as badly as dealing off Kelenic.

is going to be to move Lugo to the rotation and sign Betances and even add another pen arm or two.

The FA starters once you get past Wheeler are a pretty lame bunch IMO.

In comment 14685369 Eric on Li said:

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when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal.

Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way, apparently broken bones heal differently based on how their broken? News to me. A breaks a break and we are talking small bones in the ankle area. Apparently Cespedes’s bones cant heal for a minimum of 2 years and calcium deposit removal takes 3 years to recover from. Got it. But appreciate the sarcastic snark per usual.

In comment 14685402 Metnut said:

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is going to be to move Lugo to the rotation and sign Betances and even add another pen arm or two. The FA starters once you get past Wheeler are a pretty lame bunch IMO.

They need to sign one more hopefully. Keuchel of Hamels would be fine by me.

I think David Peterson starting in AAA could offer good backend depth as the year progresses as well.

say what you said last year.

2020 will come down to health of the starting rotation and effectiveness of the bullpen combined with an inexperienced manager.

Last year they have one, not the other, and came up a few games short.

In comment 14685462 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 14685369 Eric on Li said: Quote: when they also believe that surgeries that require 8-10 month recovery times are "simple" and an ankle fracture in multiple places from a "violent fall", during the rehab window from the first surgeries no less, is no big deal. Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way, apparently broken bones heal differently based on how their broken? News to me. A breaks a break and we are talking small bones in the ankle area. Apparently Cespedes’s bones cant heal for a minimum of 2 years and calcium deposit removal takes 3 years to recover from. Got it. But appreciate the sarcastic snark per usual.

Violent fall came directly from Brodie so I'm not sure what the question is? He used the term violent.

I said I “thought” he stepped in a hole and then I immediately followed that up with what does “violent” have to do with heal times ok complete fractures?

Does your comment about something Brody said help clarify my actual point?

and as DMM points out, the term "violent fall" was directly from the Mets. Same as BVW said a couple weeks ago that they aren't even sure if he will play in 2020, apparently despite your optimistic diagnosis.
Yoenis Cespedes Fractures Ankle in ‘Violent’ Fall at His Ranch - ( New Window )

In comment 14685496 ZGiants98 said:

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I said I “thought” he stepped in a hole and then I immediately followed that up with what does “violent” have to do with heal times ok complete fractures? Does your comment about something Brody said help clarify my actual point?

You've got to be kidding me here? You clearly questioned "violent fall"

"Violent fall? I thought he stepped in a hole? Either way..."

Accept you were wrong and move on.

4/$73M.

Not trying to miller the discussion of how severely Ces fell, but thought it was relevant here given that I saw a number of Mets fans wishing for Grandal on a few of the offseason threads.

can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

In comment 14685531 bigbluehoya said:

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4/$73M. Not trying to miller the discussion of how severely Ces fell, but thought it was relevant here given that I saw a number of Mets fans wishing for Grandal on a few of the offseason threads.

Imagine adding Grandal to this team instead of Cano. Would be a game changer.

turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired.

In comment 14685551 DanMetroMan said:

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turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired.

It could just as easily have gone the other way. If he got hurt with a major injury he ends up making less than $60M over 4 years

In comment 14685560 Mike in NY said:

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In comment 14685551 DanMetroMan said: Quote: turned down 4 for 60, ended up (including last year) 5 for 91.25. He got the last laugh, highly doubtful he was going to be worth 31.25 million after his Mets deal expired. It could just as easily have gone the other way. If he got hurt with a major injury he ends up making less than $60M over 4 years

Of course. But he gambled on himself and won. He cited the other top paid C that came before him and how it would be setting a bad precedent. He made the right call.

do anything smart!

In comment 14685532 cactus said:

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can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

There is no limit. Plus, it's the offseason, it will get better before it gets worse. Not pointing any fingers either, I'm as guilty a miserable Mets fan as the next.

we argue semantics.

he's a very good player who has proven he deserves beyond most doubts, but catchers can age quickly post-30. Lucroy and Posey being 2 recent examples. This organization doesn't have the budget to make another mistake like that after the Cano mistake.

The best thing BVW did last year was cash in on an undervalued pre-breakout young player (JDFD). And it was at the expense of 1 of the best organizations out there. I'd like to see him hang on to Ramos and add a young defensive minded catcher this offseason - like 1 of the guys in Toronto. Dom Smith for 1 of them makes a ton of sense.

pushing for Wheeler too.

They have a lot of payroll flexibility.

on Szapucki. Hopefully this kid took his injury lumps early and that's all behind him now.

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Mets Farm Report @MetsFarmReport · 5m “With his arm and what you see coming out of it, he’s a big league arm for me.” @AlLeiter22 is big on @ThomasSzapucki .

if this is real, I need to see an explanation.

Bench coach:

Cora
Fredi G.
Narron
Muellens

Pitching:

Hefner
Fetter
Karsay

...

is my guess, Martino has been pushing his candidacy, of course Fetters is a Michigan guy so Fred could push for him.

In comment 14685824 pjcas18 said:

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if this is real, I need to see an explanation.

doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless the 3 prospects are Bohm, Howard, Medina.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Mets have agreed to terms with Chasen Shreve on a Minors deal. Spring invite for experienced reliever.

He sucks

NEGATIVE 0.5 career fWAR, crappy numbers vs. lefties.

guy, on to fixing the defense.

.

In comment 14685532 cactus said:

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can one group of miserable met fans argue over?

Welcome to Mets threads! Where irrelevant minutia gets argued to death and context and actual meaning go to die! :)

3 year deal with the White Sox (50 million).

Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
3m
The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal
.

Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total.

In comment 14686686 pjcas18 said:

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Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO · 3m The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal . Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total.

1 of 11 teams who were at his 11/7 start

In comment 14686690 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14686686 pjcas18 said: Quote: Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO · 3m The Mets have shown interest in signing Korean left-handed starter Kwang-Hyun Kim according to @Ken_Rosenthal . Kiley McDaniel from FanGraphs predicted he would get 2 yrs/$14 million total. 1 of 11 teams who were at his 11/7 start

So you're saying there's a chance?

Kim.

will look to pay Ellsbury 0 of his owed 26 million citing his use of outside doctors... Cespedes anyone?

is not a fan of Kim. Big pass for me. Much prefer someone like Hamels or Hill.

Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Mets are one of five teams showing early interestin in Korean left-handed starter Kwang-hyun Kim. Royals, Dodgers, Cubs, and Diamondbacks are the other four teams according to Rosenthal.

said his stuff has declined, his body as declined and he's a 5th SP/swingman to him. Pass.

Many pitchers return from TJ with a new physique thanks to their time away from throwing, during which they’re focused on the rest of their body. That’s not the case here, as Kim’s athleticism is seeping away, his arm slot has lowered a bit, and he’s less balanced over his blocking leg than he used to be. Stuff wise, Kim has a nasty, tilt-a-whirl slider he deploys as his primary swing and miss weapon; the rest of his repertoire (a low-90s fastball, low-70s curveball, and upper-70s changeup) is average or below. It’s a fifth starter/swingman look, barring some kind of velo explosion out of a bullpen.

17-18 million into a player with huge downside and limited upside is silly. Give a guy like Hamels 1 year vs. the risk.

In comment 14686766 DanMetroMan said:

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said his stuff has declined, his body as declined and he's a 5th SP/swingman to him. Pass.

Yeah was just reading his writeup. Think there are better options out there. Even Gio.

In comment 14686740 DanMetroMan said:

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will look to pay Ellsbury 0 of his owed 26 million citing his use of outside doctors... Cespedes anyone?

Yeah, that is why I think the Wilpons don't want Cespedes to ever see the field this year. Try to recoup some money on top of the insurance.

I honestly don't care if Cespedes gets $30M, $20M, $5M or $0 or if the Mets pay him or if the insurance company reimburses the Mets or anything else.

Because regardless if the Mets save any money on his contract or not, it does not seem like it will have any impact on their payroll spending.

So, who cares?