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Some information from Albert Breer-

Sean : 11/21/2019 10:03 pm
I just watched his halftime twitter periscope where he takes questions, some things he said:

1. Gettlemanís job is likely safe. He said DG does a better job than people realize.

2. Rhule makes sense for NYG & Rhule likely would not turn the job down.

3. Mike McCarthy to WSH is possible.

4. Keep an eye out for McDaniels to Carolina.

5. Jason Garrett job in serious jeopardy.

Probably not thread worthy, but weíre 2-8 & this is what we have to look forward to.
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RE: Stop the bullshit  
MookGiants : 11/22/2019 12:18 am : link
In comment 14686218 djm said:
Quote:
The giants are not worse than 2017. They are younger across the board and opened up a ton of cap space. They also have a young Qb everyone can get behind.

I donít know why some of you need to exaggerate to make a point. We all know the giants blow chunks but they arenít worse off than 2017. Not by a long shot.


Wait, the team that Gettleman clearly believed could compete in 2018 when he took the job at end of 2017 was worse than the one currently?

So Gettleman clearly totally fucked up when he made moves to "go for it" in 2018.

Great, he has a bunch of cap room and is younger across the board. Which positions on defense are you comfortable with going forward? Safety certainly not. Defensive end certainly not. Linebacker certainly not. Corner certainly not
So they're in better shape at DT.

Jones is a start, but the roster is an epic train wreck, and Gettleman having money to spend should scare everyone. He's been an unmitigated disaster spending money in free agency.

The Giants may not have a hole at QB going forward, but they have massive holes at every other premium position on the roster. More than any team in the league.

Gettleman tried to sell everyone on Jabrill Peppers being like getting another 1st round pick, which was a totally asinine comment. His evaluation of players that are already in the NFL has been nothing short of comical. Peppers play to this point is closer to an undrafted free agent than it is a 1st round pick
fucking clown  
MookGiants : 11/22/2019 12:22 am : link
Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found.

Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.

RE: fucking clown  
robbieballs2003 : 11/22/2019 4:21 am : link
In comment 14686233 MookGiants said:
Quote:
Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found.

Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.


When did you become a rapper?
Why not Jim Schwartz  
Tuckrule : 11/22/2019 6:29 am : link
Heís got the Philly defense playing lights out we could definitely use a defensive mind. Iíve had enough of the offensive genius Mr. pat shurmur. I would prefer a defensive mind at the helm.
I support DG  
Karl Hungus : 11/22/2019 6:38 am : link
First 2 years were to clear the books. Next year is make or break.
RE: fucking clown  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/22/2019 6:43 am : link
In comment 14686233 MookGiants said:
Quote:
Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found.

Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.


Gettleman has made mistakes but nothing is gained be sticking a microphone in the GMs face in November. The sharks will get a chance to tear into him in the offseason.
RE: I support DG  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/22/2019 6:44 am : link
In comment 14686260 Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
First 2 years were to clear the books. Next year is make or break.


I believe there may be some truth to this. I would also think Dave was asked to field a team with Eli and he did while not mortgaging the future. Solder really the only big investment. I also think Shurmur may have been more of a Mara hire.

I am not why people don't see this.
I would like to see Rhule.  
Diver_Down : 11/22/2019 7:09 am : link
But if Carolina hires Josh, then Ron Rivera would be a nice established HC. Defensive minded and if he can take Norv with him all the better. Norv is singularly focused on offense and has no aspirations for HC. If we can get Barkley producing like CMC, that should be the goal. Barkley's production will float all boats.
RE: RE: 2-8 this year  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/22/2019 7:35 am : link
In comment 14686184 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14686169 MookGiants said:


Quote:


and should be 1-9. As horrible as the Giants have been recently, they're actually worse than their record shows.



enough with the "should be 1-9" thing. they beat TB and put up 30+ points. TBs kicker missed a FG attempt.

should the giants have only won three superbowls because norwood missed a FG at the end of the game?

you are what your record says you are.

the main issues with the giants this season have been jones' shitty pocket awareness and fumbling the other team points, shurmur's shitty scheming and coaching, and injuries.

gettleman's certainly been far from perfect but he's not the horror show some on this site make him out to be.


actually, he missed more than a field goal. He also missed an extra point and had an extra point blocked.

I won't argue with your main issues, but would add that the O-line can neither run block or pass block and the defense can't get off the field.
Guys  
mdthedream : 11/22/2019 7:35 am : link
the team has a bunch of young kids on the field. On offense we have had Slayton as the ony wr on the field. No Sheppard,Engram,Tate and Barkley. What do you expect? Let alone the two tackles have been hurt.
I agree  
mdthedream : 11/22/2019 7:36 am : link
get a real good Head coach but its a building season. It is what it is.
I get the any one is better than  
Dnew15 : 11/22/2019 8:01 am : link
Shurmur crowd - but if the Giants hire Rhule - they'll be starting over again in three years.
RE: RE: Giants will hire Garrett  
Gettledogman : 11/22/2019 8:22 am : link
In comment 14686220 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14686188 moespree said:


Quote:


Keep Gettleman, they'll underperform again, fire Gettleman, and replace him with Kevin Abrams.



The odds, alas, are very much in favor of this happening.

This organization is a circular error.


Yes the same organization that has won 4 super bowl championships -given fans some of the most exciting and memorable plays in the history of the league -hahahaha wtf?! could the be more ignorant people than NYG fans? This is not the Jets or Bengals or Browns etc etc. etc.
RE: fucking clown  
TheMick7 : 11/22/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14686233 MookGiants said:
Quote:
Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found.

Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.


I think while it's much easier to be critical of DG & Shurmur (and,yes, I'm on board w/the criticisms), we're missing the bigger picture in that John Mara is the problem. I never thought I'd write that as at one time I believed he was the voice of reason within the organization. However,over the past few seasons,his inability to recognize what is happening,the remedies needed for the problems & his solutions that create more problems show that he needs to completely step away from being involved in the football operations. For those old enough to remember,I see him morphing into the "Old" Wellington,the one who was clueless as to what to do & the need for the commissioner to step in with George Young!Most of you remember "Grandpa" Wellington,the kindly old gentleman that was around the Giant teams in his senior years but not the Wellington from the late '60's/early '70's. John is slowly becoming the "Old" version of his father.And w/Tisch not truly involved,John's the one making the personnel decisions. We need a strong football person to come in & be the decision maker,not John Mara & I don't believe he's anywhere near giving up his control!
DG does a better job than people realize?  
The_Boss : 11/22/2019 8:27 am : link
Really??
The team is arguably worse over the last 2 years than the 3-13 mess he inherited.

Iíd throw the cocksucker out with yesterdayís garbage.
Gettleman's Job  
Lambuth_Special : 11/22/2019 8:36 am : link
The only way I can interpret the "better job than people realize" comment is that DG was hamstrung in 2018 by Mara to try to compete, and thus couldn't commit to a full rebuild. In retrospect, maybe DG was trolling when he kept talking about looking at the Philly game in regards to Eli: "I'm really looking hard at this ONE game to figure out how to make this work."

If he was hamstrung, however, than that's even a worse indictment of the Giants org than him being a bad GM.
The Other Path for Gettleman  
Lambuth_Special : 11/22/2019 8:40 am : link
Beal, Ballentine, and Love are going to get a lot of burn these last six games (theoretically). If two of them look good, and Baker improves, DG's cluster drafting approach will have paid off and they'll at least have a secondary foundation to go with some DL pieces. Then they then could focus on linebackers in the offseason.

There's a lot of faith in that projection, however.
I still think Mcdaniels stays in New England.  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 11/22/2019 9:01 am : link
Kraft is holding the head coaching carrot in front of his nose for when Bill retires. Does anyone really think Kraft wasnít behind Mcdaniels decision to fuck Indy over?
The  
AcidTest : 11/22/2019 9:04 am : link
Giants are "better" than they were in 2017 because we have a RB and Eli's successor. But we still have a lot more holes than we should given DG has had two years of draft classes and FA signings, as well as the blockbuster OBJ trade. He still hasn't fixed the OL, or added even one LB who can cover. We also still basically have no pass rush.
The Gettlemanites:  
bw in dc : 11/22/2019 9:07 am : link
can keep making all the excuses they need to support their hero DG. And thatís fine.

But one issue remains inexcusable - Mr. Hog Mollie has failed epically at building the OL. His supposed forte.

I see little difference right now in that regard between him and his predecessor JReese.
RE: RE: Stop the bullshit  
aGiantGuy : 11/22/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14686231 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14686218 djm said:


Quote:


The giants are not worse than 2017. They are younger across the board and opened up a ton of cap space. They also have a young Qb everyone can get behind.

I donít know why some of you need to exaggerate to make a point. We all know the giants blow chunks but they arenít worse off than 2017. Not by a long shot.



Wait, the team that Gettleman clearly believed could compete in 2018 when he took the job at end of 2017 was worse than the one currently?

So Gettleman clearly totally fucked up when he made moves to "go for it" in 2018.

Great, he has a bunch of cap room and is younger across the board. Which positions on defense are you comfortable with going forward? Safety certainly not. Defensive end certainly not. Linebacker certainly not. Corner certainly not
So they're in better shape at DT.

Jones is a start, but the roster is an epic train wreck, and Gettleman having money to spend should scare everyone. He's been an unmitigated disaster spending money in free agency.

The Giants may not have a hole at QB going forward, but they have massive holes at every other premium position on the roster. More than any team in the league.

Gettleman tried to sell everyone on Jabrill Peppers being like getting another 1st round pick, which was a totally asinine comment. His evaluation of players that are already in the NFL has been nothing short of comical. Peppers play to this point is closer to an undrafted free agent than it is a 1st round pick

Bold talk. Iím gonna read you the name of some other first round safeties and you tell me exactly why Peppers shouldnít be considered a first rounder.
Karl Joseph
Keanu Neal
Terrell Edmunds
Malik Hooker
Calvin Pryor
Haha Clinton Dix
Deone Buccannon
Kenny Vaccarro
Eric Reid
Matt Elam
That list goes back the last 6 years. Obviously thereís Jamal Adams, Derwin James, and Minkah Fitzpatrick that are better than him. Malik Hooker has been too injury prone but he has better instincts. Thatís 4 out of 13 safeties drafted in the first round that I wouldnít take him over. Why canít he be considered a first round pick again? Heís leading our team in turnovers btw and hasnít given up a td all year...
RE: The Gettlemanites:  
Gmen703 : 11/22/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14686352 bw in dc said:
Quote:
can keep making all the excuses they need to support their hero DG. And thatís fine.

But one issue remains inexcusable - Mr. Hog Mollie has failed epically at building the OL. His supposed forte.

I see little difference right now in that regard between him and his predecessor JReese.


Shout it to the mountaintops!
RE: Stop the bullshit  
Jay in Toronto : 11/22/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14686218 djm said:
Quote:
The giants are not worse than 2017. They are younger across the board and opened up a ton of cap space. They also have a young Qb everyone can get behind.

I donít know why some of you need to exaggerate to make a point. We all know the giants blow chunks but they arenít worse off than 2017. Not by a long shot.


+1 The mistake was not doing a complete rebuild from the get-go.

Just like the draft, unfortunately you need the data over the course of several seasons
having played a lot of safety in my time  
JonC : 11/22/2019 9:33 am : link
to me it looks like Peppers needs some structure, and moneyback in this scheme is a different animal than traditional SS. That falls on coaching/teaching and making sure he understands his assignments in practice.

When he's playing with confidence, the results are showing up. When he's not sure what he's doing out there, and opponents see it on film and are attacking it, he looks bad. Same goes for most of this defense in 2019 ... it's a trend.
That particular flaw may be more Peppers than organizational though  
jcn56 : 11/22/2019 9:36 am : link
That's been his MO thus far in his career, save for the stint of games with Gregg Williams as his DC. He's a been tweener, good player but not a great fit type of guy. That was the knock coming out of college, and so far that seems to have described him perfectly.

In a lot of cases it's easy to point at the coaching and say it's making the talent look worse, but I'd caution that works in the opposite direction as well. When you have guys like Dee Baker completely giving up, Jenkins making business decisions, Ogletree having no clue where he's supposed to be and a LB corps that shouldn't be starting in D-III let alone the NFL, maybe it's not the coaching.
Although not thrilled with DG  
UberAlias : 11/22/2019 9:38 am : link
I'm OK with keeping him and replacing PS. I don't get the, keep PS because of too much change crowd. Most of this team has only been here under PS, so it would be the first change for them. And sticking with the wrong man, for ANY REASON, never makes sense. It may not be ideal, but having the right man rather than the wrong one is far better. PS failed in Cleveland, and now he's failing here as well. There are no glimpses of brilliance along the way that would lead one to believe that under the right conditions we'd regret letting him go. At best he's been Meh, with lack of results. The sooner to move on, the better. It's only going to get harder to make the move the more he's worked with DJ.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/22/2019 9:39 am : link
Quote:
He said DG does a better job than people realize.


This is laughable.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 11/22/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14686386 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:


Quote:


He said DG does a better job than people realize.



This is laughable.


Not true - most people think he's fucking terrible (larger population, not just Giants fans). Maybe he's better than fucking terrible. Just terrible?
....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/22/2019 9:45 am : link
Haha! I'm fine with the argument that DG needs more time, or that his picks need some time to develop. But people jamming stuff like this down our throats drives me insane.
Is it laughable or is it  
arniefez : 11/22/2019 9:46 am : link
that he knows Gettleman has to deal with the Mara Bros.
RE: fucking clown  
WalterSobchak : 11/22/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14686233 MookGiants said:
Quote:
Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found.

Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.

Amen ! +1
RE: Stop the bullshit  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/22/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14686218 djm said:
Quote:
The giants are not worse than 2017. They are younger across the board and opened up a ton of cap space. They also have a young Qb everyone can get behind.

I donít know why some of you need to exaggerate to make a point. We all know the giants blow chunks but they arenít worse off than 2017. Not by a long shot.

A "ton of cap space"? By what metric? They lead the league in dead money this year, and their cap room going into next season is closer to the median than it is to the top, with most of the cap room that DG supposedly "opened up" simply being the result of Eli's contract expiring. Are you really giving DG credit for that?

I know you're unwilling to see it, but most other teams are doing a much better job of operating than the Giants are right now.
The  
Les in TO : 11/22/2019 10:09 am : link
Giants donít cycle quickly through GMs do no surprise DGís job is safe. Shurmur will be canned much like Handley McAdoo Reeves and Fassel were fired after two consecutive losing seasons or during/after one shitshow season. Coughlin has three losing seasons before getting his gold watch and he had the benefit of two Lombardis.
Call me a Gettlemanite or whatever lame insult you got  
aGiantGuy : 11/22/2019 10:23 am : link
We gave Jerry Reese 10 years to drive Accorsiís roster into the ground but we canít give Gettleman 3, ok. I canít help but to think so many judge Gettleman harder than they would ever judge themselves at their profession. He hasnít been perfect but, My God a lot of people act like heís the reason we suck. Weíve sucked donkey balls since 2013!!!

Iíll start with positives
3rd rd pick for a 17m/yr JPP contract
Zietler for a 17m/yr Vernon contract
4th for Eli Apple
5th for 11m/yr Harrison contract
Danny Jones
Traded OBJ

Negatives
Signed OBJ To 20m/yr contract
Signed Johnathan Stewart FOR 3 WHOLE MILLION DOLLARS
( Frank Gore gets paid more and heís 5 years older! Stewart ran for 900 yards the year before)
Signed Solder to a 15m/yr contract ( Yeah Solder showed all the signs of sucking after his team won the Super Bowl and Brady wasnít touched the whole fourth quarter, people also like to leave out Belichick matched our contract offer)
Brought back Eli Manning (his worst blunder by far and very fair criticism)
Traded Ogletree for a 10m/yr contract( ok this might be the worst but Ogle tree never played like this in St. Louis)


The blunders of Ogletree Solder and Eli
Manning isnít enough for me to say get rid of him, a lot of you say his blunder is trying to win in 2018, well why did he get rid of jpp right away when he had 12 sacks that season if he wasnít rebuilding...I guess Iím a Gettlemanite. Carry on.
One more thing  
aGiantGuy : 11/22/2019 10:27 am : link
Left out one huge negative. HIRING FíIN PAT SHURMUR
Gettleman traded up  
cjac : 11/22/2019 10:36 am : link
for POS Deandre Baker

fail
RE: Is it laughable or is it  
cosmicj : 11/22/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14686399 arniefez said:
Quote:
that he knows Gettleman has to deal with the Mara Bros.
That was my take, too, although Iíd instead put it thus way: that heís navigating a nepotistic or inherited group of people and he needs time to make upgrades to a change-averse organization.
The best defense of Gettleman  
jcn56 : 11/22/2019 10:39 am : link
'Jonathan Stewart only cost $3M dollars! I mean, what else would you have done with that money!'

In the meanwhile, they moved Brett Jones, who wasn't great by any stretch, to much fanfare over cost savings - and replaced him with bad (Pulley) and worse (Halapio). Well done.
I think a defense of Gettleman would involve improvement  
cosmicj : 11/22/2019 10:45 am : link
From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too.

Iíd make the argument that Gettlemanís 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career.
Guys, Gettleman has done a better job than people realize  
mikeinbloomfield : 11/22/2019 10:46 am : link
but it has nothing to do with drafting or acquiring players. He's been really good at telling us how well he's doing and how well the plan is going. What is going well and what the plan consists of is for him to know.
not a fan of DG  
fkap : 11/22/2019 10:48 am : link
but also think we don't know the whole story.

Was he hired with a mandate to win now with Eli, as one anti-Gettlemanite alleges? If so, a lot of the venom should be directed at a pay grade above DG's, because that was a fools errand. Due to that blunder, which may or may not be his, set the demolition/rebuild back a year.

Was the PS hire on his shoulders, or, as alleged by many, a Mara thing?

How much of the talent evaluation/acquisition blame is on his shoulders? The coaches, Maras, and his lieutenant Abrams are involved in the process.

I think there's plenty of evidence to show coaching needs a major shakeup. Too much of the evidence in the DG trial is sealed to make any real evaluation from the bleachers.
RE: I think a defense of Gettleman would involve improvement  
jcn56 : 11/22/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14686460 cosmicj said:
Quote:
From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too.

Iíd make the argument that Gettlemanís 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career.


I think that Williams trade is going to make or break him. And right now, I'm squarely in the 'break' column. Trading away decent picks for a guy who was going to hit FA, for the right to overpay a player who has never lived up to his potential, doesn't seem like the way for a guy who's had a horrible record in FA to right his ship. Not to mention resource allocation, given he has no edge rushers and already employs Dexter Lawrence.
Gettleman is investing resources in certain out of fashion  
cosmicj : 11/22/2019 11:00 am : link
Positions: RB (Saquon), SS (Peppers), G (Zeitler) and 3-4 DE (Williams). At this point, I feel comfortable calling it a trend in DGís approach with the Giants. It will be interesting to see whether it proves to be an effective contrarian approach to roster management. The other option is that heís not paying enough attention to positional value. It gives us at least something stimulating to watch for in this awful team.
RE: RE: I think a defense of Gettleman would involve improvement  
Bill L : 11/22/2019 11:15 am : link
In comment 14686467 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14686460 cosmicj said:


Quote:


From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too.

Iíd make the argument that Gettlemanís 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career.



I think that Williams trade is going to make or break him. And right now, I'm squarely in the 'break' column. Trading away decent picks for a guy who was going to hit FA, for the right to overpay a player who has never lived up to his potential, doesn't seem like the way for a guy who's had a horrible record in FA to right his ship. Not to mention resource allocation, given he has no edge rushers and already employs Dexter Lawrence.


I thin kit's an example of how dynamic our opinions are. The prevailing opinion going into the season was that D. Jones would make or break him. If that was true, the conversation would be in its final stages. But he makes a move and that becomes his lynchpin. Until his next move.
I think that PS and DG  
Dnew15 : 11/22/2019 11:28 am : link
are in the Daniel Jones thing together.

As DJ goes - so do their careers in Blue.
Those of you mentioning Josh McDaniel  
David B. : 11/22/2019 12:04 pm : link
Don't seem to remember that he flamed out in Denver, and totally screwed over the Colts -- pulling out of his deal after the Colts had already hired and announced him. Total douche move.

I've had enough of Shurmer, but I'd rather keep Shurmer than have McDaniel.
no one move  
fkap : 11/22/2019 12:06 pm : link
will make or break DG. It'll be the whole body of work.

But there may be one that is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.
RE: no one move  
jcn56 : 11/22/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14686603 fkap said:
Quote:
will make or break DG. It'll be the whole body of work.

But there may be one that is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.


That's absolutely true - I meant that trade will ultimately be an indicator of his fortunes here. If it fails, I'm pretty sure DG is a goner regardless of how risk averse the team is. Big ticket FA who he traded picks for, anything less than well above average and his cumulative FA record will be well below league average.
I heard  
BIG FRED 1973 : 11/22/2019 2:32 pm : link
that McDaniels pulled out of the Colts job because Kraft told him to. Kraft absolutely despises Jim Irsay and wants to screw him anyway he can.This is from my friend who is close to someone that worked for the pats so take it what its worth
RE: The best defense of Gettleman  
aGiantGuy : 11/22/2019 6:35 pm : link
In comment 14686451 jcn56 said:
Quote:
'Jonathan Stewart only cost $3M dollars! I mean, what else would you have done with that money!'

In the meanwhile, they moved Brett Jones, who wasn't great by any stretch, to much fanfare over cost savings - and replaced him with bad (Pulley) and worse (Halapio). Well done.

In what world is Brett Jones better than Pio. I was almost expecting you to say we shoulda signed Mitch Morse, but Brett Jones?? Go watch the 2017 film man.
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