Some information from Albert Breer-

to me it looks like Peppers needs some structure, and moneyback in this scheme is a different animal than traditional SS. That falls on coaching/teaching and making sure he understands his assignments in practice.

When he's playing with confidence, the results are showing up. When he's not sure what he's doing out there, and opponents see it on film and are attacking it, he looks bad. Same goes for most of this defense in 2019 ... it's a trend.

That's been his MO thus far in his career, save for the stint of games with Gregg Williams as his DC. He's a been tweener, good player but not a great fit type of guy. That was the knock coming out of college, and so far that seems to have described him perfectly.

In a lot of cases it's easy to point at the coaching and say it's making the talent look worse, but I'd caution that works in the opposite direction as well. When you have guys like Dee Baker completely giving up, Jenkins making business decisions, Ogletree having no clue where he's supposed to be and a LB corps that shouldn't be starting in D-III let alone the NFL, maybe it's not the coaching.

I'm OK with keeping him and replacing PS. I don't get the, keep PS because of too much change crowd. Most of this team has only been here under PS, so it would be the first change for them. And sticking with the wrong man, for ANY REASON, never makes sense. It may not be ideal, but having the right man rather than the wrong one is far better. PS failed in Cleveland, and now he's failing here as well. There are no glimpses of brilliance along the way that would lead one to believe that under the right conditions we'd regret letting him go. At best he's been Meh, with lack of results. The sooner to move on, the better. It's only going to get harder to make the move the more he's worked with DJ.

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He said DG does a better job than people realize.

This is laughable.

In comment 14686386 BrettNYG10 said:

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Quote: He said DG does a better job than people realize. This is laughable.

Not true - most people think he's fucking terrible (larger population, not just Giants fans). Maybe he's better than fucking terrible. Just terrible?

Haha! I'm fine with the argument that DG needs more time, or that his picks need some time to develop. But people jamming stuff like this down our throats drives me insane.

that he knows Gettleman has to deal with the Mara Bros.

In comment 14686233 MookGiants said:

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Gettleman can't get to a microphone fast enough to pat himself on the back for moves he makes in the draft and trades and to defend moves like Jonathan Stewart but when the team totally sucks shit he is no where to be found. Shurmur is a total loser. Gettleman is a total clown. John Mara is letting both of them run the organization even further into the ground.

Amen ! +1

In comment 14686218 djm said:

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The giants are not worse than 2017. They are younger across the board and opened up a ton of cap space. They also have a young Qb everyone can get behind. I don’t know why some of you need to exaggerate to make a point. We all know the giants blow chunks but they aren’t worse off than 2017. Not by a long shot.

A "ton of cap space"? By what metric? They lead the league in dead money this year, and their cap room going into next season is closer to the median than it is to the top, with most of the cap room that DG supposedly "opened up" simply being the result of Eli's contract expiring. Are you really giving DG credit for that?

I know you're unwilling to see it, but most other teams are doing a much better job of operating than the Giants are right now.

Giants don’t cycle quickly through GMs do no surprise DG’s job is safe. Shurmur will be canned much like Handley McAdoo Reeves and Fassel were fired after two consecutive losing seasons or during/after one shitshow season. Coughlin has three losing seasons before getting his gold watch and he had the benefit of two Lombardis.

We gave Jerry Reese 10 years to drive Accorsi’s roster into the ground but we can’t give Gettleman 3, ok. I can’t help but to think so many judge Gettleman harder than they would ever judge themselves at their profession. He hasn’t been perfect but, My God a lot of people act like he’s the reason we suck. We’ve sucked donkey balls since 2013!!!

I’ll start with positives
3rd rd pick for a 17m/yr JPP contract
Zietler for a 17m/yr Vernon contract
4th for Eli Apple
5th for 11m/yr Harrison contract
Danny Jones
Traded OBJ

Negatives
Signed OBJ To 20m/yr contract
Signed Johnathan Stewart FOR 3 WHOLE MILLION DOLLARS
( Frank Gore gets paid more and he’s 5 years older! Stewart ran for 900 yards the year before)
Signed Solder to a 15m/yr contract ( Yeah Solder showed all the signs of sucking after his team won the Super Bowl and Brady wasn’t touched the whole fourth quarter, people also like to leave out Belichick matched our contract offer)
Brought back Eli Manning (his worst blunder by far and very fair criticism)
Traded Ogletree for a 10m/yr contract( ok this might be the worst but Ogle tree never played like this in St. Louis)


The blunders of Ogletree Solder and Eli
Manning isn’t enough for me to say get rid of him, a lot of you say his blunder is trying to win in 2018, well why did he get rid of jpp right away when he had 12 sacks that season if he wasn’t rebuilding...I guess I’m a Gettlemanite. Carry on.

Left out one huge negative. HIRING F’IN PAT SHURMUR

for POS Deandre Baker

fail

In comment 14686399 arniefez said:

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that he knows Gettleman has to deal with the Mara Bros.

That was my take, too, although I’d instead put it thus way: that he’s navigating a nepotistic or inherited group of people and he needs time to make upgrades to a change-averse organization.

'Jonathan Stewart only cost $3M dollars! I mean, what else would you have done with that money!'

In the meanwhile, they moved Brett Jones, who wasn't great by any stretch, to much fanfare over cost savings - and replaced him with bad (Pulley) and worse (Halapio). Well done.

From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too.

I’d make the argument that Gettleman’s 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career.

but it has nothing to do with drafting or acquiring players. He's been really good at telling us how well he's doing and how well the plan is going. What is going well and what the plan consists of is for him to know.

but also think we don't know the whole story.

Was he hired with a mandate to win now with Eli, as one anti-Gettlemanite alleges? If so, a lot of the venom should be directed at a pay grade above DG's, because that was a fools errand. Due to that blunder, which may or may not be his, set the demolition/rebuild back a year.

Was the PS hire on his shoulders, or, as alleged by many, a Mara thing?

How much of the talent evaluation/acquisition blame is on his shoulders? The coaches, Maras, and his lieutenant Abrams are involved in the process.

I think there's plenty of evidence to show coaching needs a major shakeup. Too much of the evidence in the DG trial is sealed to make any real evaluation from the bleachers.

In comment 14686460 cosmicj said:

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From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too. I’d make the argument that Gettleman’s 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career.

I think that Williams trade is going to make or break him. And right now, I'm squarely in the 'break' column. Trading away decent picks for a guy who was going to hit FA, for the right to overpay a player who has never lived up to his potential, doesn't seem like the way for a guy who's had a horrible record in FA to right his ship. Not to mention resource allocation, given he has no edge rushers and already employs Dexter Lawrence.

Positions: RB (Saquon), SS (Peppers), G (Zeitler) and 3-4 DE (Williams). At this point, I feel comfortable calling it a trend in DG’s approach with the Giants. It will be interesting to see whether it proves to be an effective contrarian approach to roster management. The other option is that he’s not paying enough attention to positional value. It gives us at least something stimulating to watch for in this awful team.

In comment 14686467 jcn56 said:

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In comment 14686460 cosmicj said: Quote: From 2018 to 2019. There were a series of mistakes in 2018, but he was new to the job, ill and facing an organization in crisis. 2019 has been better. I know we can criticize the Baker trade up or the Williams trade (which I like) or the Bethea signing but he has done good things, too. I’d make the argument that Gettleman’s 2018 was an outlier in what has been a successful career. I think that Williams trade is going to make or break him. And right now, I'm squarely in the 'break' column. Trading away decent picks for a guy who was going to hit FA, for the right to overpay a player who has never lived up to his potential, doesn't seem like the way for a guy who's had a horrible record in FA to right his ship. Not to mention resource allocation, given he has no edge rushers and already employs Dexter Lawrence.

I thin kit's an example of how dynamic our opinions are. The prevailing opinion going into the season was that D. Jones would make or break him. If that was true, the conversation would be in its final stages. But he makes a move and that becomes his lynchpin. Until his next move.

are in the Daniel Jones thing together.

As DJ goes - so do their careers in Blue.

Don't seem to remember that he flamed out in Denver, and totally screwed over the Colts -- pulling out of his deal after the Colts had already hired and announced him. Total douche move.

I've had enough of Shurmer, but I'd rather keep Shurmer than have McDaniel.

will make or break DG. It'll be the whole body of work.

But there may be one that is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

In comment 14686603 fkap said:

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will make or break DG. It'll be the whole body of work. But there may be one that is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

That's absolutely true - I meant that trade will ultimately be an indicator of his fortunes here. If it fails, I'm pretty sure DG is a goner regardless of how risk averse the team is. Big ticket FA who he traded picks for, anything less than well above average and his cumulative FA record will be well below league average.

that McDaniels pulled out of the Colts job because Kraft told him to. Kraft absolutely despises Jim Irsay and wants to screw him anyway he can.This is from my friend who is close to someone that worked for the pats so take it what its worth

In comment 14686451 jcn56 said:

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'Jonathan Stewart only cost $3M dollars! I mean, what else would you have done with that money!' In the meanwhile, they moved Brett Jones, who wasn't great by any stretch, to much fanfare over cost savings - and replaced him with bad (Pulley) and worse (Halapio). Well done.

In what world is Brett Jones better than Pio. I was almost expecting you to say we shoulda signed Mitch Morse, but Brett Jones?? Go watch the 2017 film man.