The Giants running game - in one year - has gone from exciting, to the same crap or worse than what we watched when Paul Perkins was the featured running back.
We have the number 2 pick in the draft at running back; a back who has demonstrated he is superior to any running back on the staff since Jacobs and Bradshaw, an offensive line that pound for pound is the best oline the Giants have fielded since Chris Snee and Shawn O'Hara retired.
Anyone here think that Perkins is a better running back than Barkley?
You can play the tapes any which way you want - but Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, Zeitler and Remmers should be a reasonably good Oline combo
Yet with a better running back and this combo of running back and what should be a better Oline have been sliding steadily backwards - literally eroding in front of our eyes.
It's frikken maddening!
Barkley can't be in that bad shape -- he's been leaping and cutting beautifully out there -- it's absolutely ridiculous that the Giants can't get a running game going with this group
IMO -- this is a serious indictment against the coaching staff -- absolutely unforgivable. I'm telling you this coaching staff shouldn't be coaching anything above pee wee league
I'd wait and see how this plays out at the end of the year
On Barkley's side, I really have to hope it's just lingering injury and not him getting sloppy or mailing it in from a work ethic perspective. There's also the possibility that with some film on him some of the flaws in his game have become easy to exploit (his tendency to dance a bit and his problems with pass pro).
I'd wait and see how this plays out at the end of the year
That drop he had was infuriating
Is that a real question?
I agree with this. He's hesitating even when there's a small hole. Don't know if he still doesn't trust the ankle or if its the poor OL, but he's certainly not as decisive.
And while it was 2 games, let's not forget he looked like 2018 Barkley, if not better, weeks 1-2.
On Barkley's side, I really have to hope it's just lingering injury and not him getting sloppy or mailing it in from a work ethic perspective. There's also the possibility that with some film on him some of the flaws in his game have become easy to exploit (his tendency to dance a bit and his problems with pass pro).
Jcn -- they don't need to be world beaters -- they just need to be adequate -- and they should be -- and Shurmur is a former offensive fukken lineman and he touted this group and virtually assured everyone they would be a good group
It's fukking bullchit what's happening out there -- and absolutely disgraceful
Now it's, hey run A or B gaps, stay between he tackles, where we clearly have the most problems getting any push.
Oh, and Lord forbid we ever run counter or anything that involves a TE/additional blocking on the line!
It's atrocious how predictably vanilla our run-game is. I don't blame Saquon one bit for hopping out of bounds or being as dancy-hesitant as he's been. Guy's probably like, I'm gonna go take a pounding running into several huge DL and LBs 15+ times a game for this guy? Screw that.
If there is an argument for Shurmur to be fired, it's that he trotted out Saquon way too soon, and put him at risk from doing a lot more damage.
BENCH HIM. Saquon shouldn't play another snap this year, but he will, and we will see the same things.
The oline is still a problem. Which has wrecked most of the development on O. I don't put this on Shurmer. This is Gettleman, who also made the call on DJ.. which is good. But its ruins the BBI quest to find a scape goat for our losing binge.
We will get there folks. Rebuild!
The oline is still a problem. Which has wrecked most of the development on O. I don't put this on Shurmer. This is Gettleman, who also made the call on DJ.. which is good. But its ruins the BBI quest to find a scape goat for our losing binge.
We will get there folks. Rebuild!
We've been in the process of "rebuilding".
2 wins going into December 1st.
Shurmur's offense uses zone blocking schemes (both inside and outside). They don't use a power-run blocking scheme.
I can’t understand this line of thinking.
It’s the same coaching staff. The only thing different is the personnel.
Remmers > Wheeler
Zeitler < Jamon
Pio ~ Pulley
19 Hrz < 18 Hrz
19 Solder < 18 Solder
19 Rhett < 18 Rhett
So only one upgrade year over year on the line
Now add that defenses no longer need to respect OBJ...
A missing component may be how well Eli adjusted the calls.
But the talent in front of Savino blows.
It was the same with Beckham on wrong screens. No blocking, just here OBJ, do something
+1
No designed runs to take advantage of his strengths. No attempts to get him the ball on the outside.
The offense looks so plain jane.
We need a bigger back to pair with SB as well. A guy who can pound the rock up the middle for 3-4 yards no matter what. The thunder and lightning of old if you will.
it has to be the coaching and the approach to team management -- nothing goes quite that wrong that way
The oline is still a problem. Which has wrecked most of the development on O. I don't put this on Shurmer. This is Gettleman, who also made the call on DJ.. which is good. But its ruins the BBI quest to find a scape goat for our losing binge.
We will get there folks. Rebuild!
Sure he's cutting beautifully:
https://youtu.be/gmh3MsNoy0M?t=682
No designed runs to take advantage of his strengths. No attempts to get him the ball on the outside.
The offense looks so plain jane.
We need a bigger back to pair with SB as well. A guy who can pound the rock up the middle for 3-4 yards no matter what. The thunder and lightning of old if you will.
do you even watch the games? every run outside is blown up even worse. why??
because it requires our TE or WR to seal the edge and a center/guard to get to the 2nd level - those don't work if the defense can shed the blocker in 0.25 seconds. which is exactly what we put on tape.
I agree this is probably the most overlooked part of the QB switch...Eli's ability to audible at the line.
No designed runs to take advantage of his strengths. No attempts to get him the ball on the outside.
The offense looks so plain jane.
We need a bigger back to pair with SB as well. A guy who can pound the rock up the middle for 3-4 yards no matter what. The thunder and lightning of old if you will.
i asked Sy about this, apparently we do less traps, sweeps, pulling then most teams but most teams are doing less of it in general.
Quote:
Shurmur is just gonna pound Barkley up the gut over and over.
No designed runs to take advantage of his strengths. No attempts to get him the ball on the outside.
The offense looks so plain jane.
We need a bigger back to pair with SB as well. A guy who can pound the rock up the middle for 3-4 yards no matter what. The thunder and lightning of old if you will.
every run to the outside has lost yards... it is not like they havent tried at all
It is pretty much 90% of how they use him though. To me it just shows Pat's lack of imagination.
@FieldYates
Giants RB Saquon Barkley had -13 rushing yards before contact on Sunday, the fifth-fewest by a player since ESPN began tracking it in 2007. He was contacted at or behind the line of scrimmage on 11 of 13 runs. The Jets dominated the Giants up front Sunday.
9:15 AM - 11 Nov 2019
No line would be reasonably good with Halapio at OC. He is so bad that he makes everyone around him suck.
You would think the Giants would understand the importance of a quality OC after having OHara in the SB years. After he retired they signed the best OC available (Baas) who unfortunately got hurt. When he got healthy at the end of 2011 the Giants finally clicked and the rest is history.
Why the fuck Gettleman didnt draft one of the top two centers instead of trading up for DeAndre Baker I will never understand. Both are starting for the teams that picked them and they are playing great.
Quote:
Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, Zeitler and Remmers should be a reasonably good Oline combo
No line would be reasonably good with Halapio at OC. He is so bad that he makes everyone around him suck.
You would think the Giants would understand the importance of a quality OC after having OHara in the SB years. After he retired they signed the best OC available (Baas) who unfortunately got hurt. When he got healthy at the end of 2011 the Giants finally clicked and the rest is history.
Why the fuck Gettleman didnt draft one of the top two centers instead of trading up for DeAndre Baker I will never understand. Both are starting for the teams that picked them and they are playing great.
Halapio had a pretty good game against the Bears.
Maybe Barkley's a great player, but if he is he hasn't made a difference here.
Teams are stacking the box waiting for Barkley. The formula since the Redskins game has been stop Barkley, make the kid beat you, collect the turnovers.
Until Jones and the receivers can make the other team pay in other than garbage time, that formula is going to continue.
it has to be the coaching and the approach to team management -- nothing goes quite that wrong that way
There's a giant gaping hole at C. Remmers was an average journeyman coming in with an injury history, couldn't pass a physical at the beginning of the football year. Solder was a liability last year, and there's more of the same this year. Zeitler is the only real upgrade, and maybe he's not as big of an upgrade as some thought.
I really don't think Shurmur's much of a coach, and I question his choice of OL position coach - but let's not just assume the talent on the OL warranted penciling them in at middle of the pack or better. It's entirely possible that even with competent coaching they're just not very good.
Not!
Maybe not so ironic with this coaching staff.
I really don't think Shurmur's much of a coach, and I question his choice of OL position coach - but let's not just assume the talent on the OL warranted penciling them in at middle of the pack or better. It's entirely possible that even with competent coaching they're just not very good.
It's more possible that with competent coaching they's be doing better -- if all the players in the same unit are doing worse than they were - the one variable is how they are being coached -- and this coach, and his staff, has proven incapable of improvements
I think this is a really good point.
I'm not at all pining for going back to #10 ... but it's been proven over his career that he's among the most prepared QBs to ever lace them up. A rookie with limited high-level experience in college is going to face plenty of obstacles, and not only the very apparent ones.