Lorenzo Carter

The problem is more that that pick was over-celebrated at the time.

but I don't think he is a "bust"

he's a JAG, 3rd round pick. Not the worst, but not a pro bowler.

Anyone else notice he has been dropping back into coverage a lot this year? Maybe he isn't getting the sacks that we thought, but it's nice to see him running downfield covering backs like Cohen.

Just a thought,

Becuz we have no real LBs that stand out, I think last year there was the hype and hope year 2 he would bust out

Well...still waiting.

I think maybe if we stay with a 3-4 he could be a better fit on the inside? I know its a big move but he doens't have the power to rush the passer as we all believed

players because they're so poorly coached. Carter has been quiet and PJ Hill has been AWOL.

secondary was fixed. Too early to tell. But he'll never be Chase Young.

he's terrible in coverage as well.

So when you're asking if anyone thinks he's a bust?

He is a bust. At this point in his career, and I know its his second season. But there's no light switch thats going to go off and suddenly he's going to be dominating.

I do think that he often looks lost on assignments which leaves him behind his man in coverage a lot.

In comment 14693366 cjac said:

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he's terrible in coverage as well. So when you're asking if anyone thinks he's a bust? He is a bust. At this point in his career, and I know its his second season. But there's no light switch thats going to go off and suddenly he's going to be dominating.

The title of 'bust' is usually used when a book is closed on a player. He's 23 years old, he was a third round draft pic and nobody thinks this coaching staff is good. If your expectation was that he was going to step in and look like a young Von Miller, that's more on you. Most draft sheets were pretty clear that carter was a player that was going to need to be developed.

In comment 14693366 cjac said:

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he's terrible in coverage as well. So when you're asking if anyone thinks he's a bust? He is a bust. At this point in his career, and I know its his second season. But there's no light switch thats going to go off and suddenly he's going to be dominating.

On what is that conclusion based? We should have shed ourselves of this loser DE who only had 5.5 sacks and 40 tackles his first 2 years. Porblem was that was Michaek Strahan. Now I;m not saying Cartter will ever sniff Strahan's career, but to say a light cannot go on after 2 years in the NFL is just plain wrong

one of the ILB positions. I'm not convinced he will ever provide much as an ER; I just don't see a lot of pass rushing skills, and he hasn't shown much progress in developing them.

him on WFAN. He thinks he is playing out of position. Thinks he is more of a LB than edge guy.

isn't really looking great right now. Absent serious improvement from these guys down the stretch, i think it makes a strong case to move on from DG when you consider how awful his FA signing have been in addition to the poor 2018 draft.

When the coaching is bad.

Almost every defensive player seems to play under their perceived skill an value.

He would play better in a 2 gap 3-4 where he can play the traditional 9 technique/ edge position. Like Leonard Floyd played in Vic Fangio’s scheme.

Because it’s a one gap scheme, he has to play more like a defensive end in terms of anchoring, defeating reach blocks, and squeezing tight ends and tackles.

That would be challenging for anyone with his size and length combo.
He doesn’t have an elite get off, so he needs to balance his pass rush moves with power. He came back stronger this year, however, he needs to come back 3x stronger next year or else yes, he will be a bust.

having LB's that do is ridiculous

Not a starter on a decent team.

He might be a better 4-3 Strong Side.

I've seen Bettch put him at ILB at times. I think that's worth exploring bc I hate seeing ogletree on the field.

Is missing one of the most important things necessary to be a good pass rusher. He doesn’t have a good get off. He has some moves, good length , solid bend, but he doesn’t have the get off to really challenge a tackle around the edge.

In comment 14693383 Beer Man said:

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one of the ILB positions. I'm not convinced he will ever provide much as an ER; I just don't see a lot of pass rushing skills, and he hasn't shown much progress in developing them.

+1

so is Ximines
so is Hill

In comment 14693429 .McL. said:

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so is Ximines so is Hill

Hill is better than those two.

quick-twitch to be an edge rusher.

In comment 14693366 cjac said:

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he's terrible in coverage as well. So when you're asking if anyone thinks he's a bust? He is a bust. At this point in his career, and I know its his second season. But there's no light switch thats going to go off and suddenly he's going to be dominating.

PFF has him graded as an 83 in coverage topping all edge players...

Also is the highest overall rated edge onthe team despite lackluster pass rush grades.

Carter has a very unique though unorthadox skillset that a good DC would have a whole lot of fun with.

In comment 14693354 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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The problem is more that that pick was over-celebrated at the time.

I'm guilty of that

As a 3rd round pick but he's a backup and special teams player on a better team. He is a disappointment as is B.J. Hill. If you look at last year's draft again where many here were praising Gettleman, I think most here would now say it is another disappointment.

He seems distinctly average against the run to me, I wouldn't say it's a liability. He was a 3rd round pick, a boarderline starter/solid back up isn't a bad outcome for a 3rd round pick.

I think he might even be a pretty good player in a really good defensive scheme.

In comment 14693433 jeff57 said:

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In comment 14693429 .McL. said: Quote: so is Ximines so is Hill Hill is better than those two.

don't fool yourself - a JAG is a JAG. And Hill is a JAG.

Stood out but he didn’t make many plays in college. A good friend of mine, a GA alum, said he’s going to be a better pro than he was in college. The reason, he thought, was a competent DC would’ve gotten the star potential out of Carter. You Bettcher ass, the NYG don’t employ a competent DC. I’m willing to see what Carter is with another DC before declaring him a bust/JAG.

Disappointed.

Lost me at “shies away from contact”. That’s just ridiculous.

.

Thats not a bad thing, to stumble into a tall heavy safety..long arms, PD the TE.

If course they tried to turn him into an end. 6 tech or whatever.

In comment 14693366 cjac said:

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he's terrible in coverage as well. So when you're asking if anyone thinks he's a bust? He is a bust. At this point in his career, and I know its his second season. But there's no light switch thats going to go off and suddenly he's going to be dominating.

You were expecting domination from a 3rd round selection in his second year? Not sure why that is.

I'd still draft two more free safety types and use Carter as an ilb in the pass D or chase mode mostly .

Of a bust. The kid was a third round pick. He’s starting. He wasn’t drafted to be a superstar.

Likely a JAG who doesn’t see a second contract with us.

is about what you expect from a 3rd round pick. So no, he isn't a bust. And if we ever get some decent coaching, he might still have some upside.

How can you be a bust if you were not suppose to something great to begin with. Dude was a third round pick, not Nick Bosa with the second pick. People on this site are the guilty ones for over-hyping the kid. Does not mean he will not be a useful player!!

In comment 14693385 Bubba said:

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him on WFAN. He thinks he is playing out of position. Thinks he is more of a LB than edge guy.

Carl Banks and Pepper Johnson should have been or should be Giants coaches. Wasn’t too long ago Pepper was a name mentioned.

Tired of these boring offensive minded doofus coaches

In comment 14693576 JoeyBigBlue said:

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Of a bust. The kid was a third round pick. He’s starting. He wasn’t drafted to be a superstar.

He's starting on maybe the worst defense in the league, a team where other team's castoffs end up starting, not saying much.

Carter was considered raw prospect coming out of college.

Is he the problem or is it the coaches are idiots who don't teach these players anything?

Who's to say Chase Young won't come here and be underwhelming for the same reasons?

and is best in a tampa 2 where he can use his athleticism

he never seemed like a 3-4 OLB to me

the kid is still extremely young. way too early to claim he's a bust and he flashed a lot his rookie year

The consensus seems to be that he's not a bust because;

A.) He was a third round pick and not much was expected of him to begin with
B.) He is playing out of position
C.) He''s had lousy coaching from day 1
D.) He's only 23 and hasn't played long enough to qualify as a bust

One comment that struck a chord was that Michael Strahan was a non factor his first two years in the league. Having watched just about every game for the past forty years I agree with that observation. Hopefully Carter is a late bloomer like Strahan and not another player with an upside who never fulfills his potential.

his rookie season, but it's too early to call him a bust.

for a dominate defensive player when what we selected was a good college player.

Watched plenty of Carter at UGA and he was a pretty good player in many areas. Though far from elite or dominating in a tough SEC conference with plenty of talent. He had enough of ability to stand out from time to time but not consistently. Keep in mind also that the NY Giants have not shown much if any ability to develop & coach-up a drafted linebacker in several decades so lets keep things in perspective too.

He is what is referred to in the NFL as a 3rd pick folks, not a bust...

is probably right.

A year ago, a vocal segment of BBI was touting him as evidence that Gettleman was a wunder dude at drafting and LC was another cog in the machine that was going to make the Giants great again.

Now, with the apparent failure of LC to progress, these fans are upset.

It's unfair to relegate 3rd round picks to the backup heap (you should expect 3rd rounders to have a shot at being quality starters), but it's also unfair to call them a bust if that's what they end up.

A huge problem for the Giants is that quality backups are important, but we're desperate for starters.

He's getting close to bust status at this point. Rarely makes a play and has a number of limitations to his game. Appears to be a guy with some decent physical attributes who lacks the tenacity and instincts for the position. IMO, he's not a rush LB and he's not a DE. In other words he doesn't have a position.

Think they should play Ximines more down the stretch to see if he might be the guy.

In comment 14693433 jeff57 said:

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In comment 14693429 .McL. said: Quote: so is Ximines so is Hill Hill is better than those two.

That's quite the indictment of the other two, considering DG just spent a couple of draft picks and is about to spend a boatload of money on LW, which essentially marginalizes Hill's role.

...under Bettcher in Arizona. Golden was the 58th pick. Carter was 66th, and his measurables were head-and-shoulders above Golden's. On the other hand. Carter was 22 when he came out, and Golden was 24. So the Cardinals probably had a clearer idea of what they were getting.

Drafting younger players hasn't worked out well for the Giants. So few picks have earned second contracts that the team hasn't reaped any real benefit from the players' youth. I think that's a combination of overrating the players' potential and overrating the staff's ability to coach them up.

There is a middle ground between "star" and "bust." Nobody drafts well enough to get stars with every pick. Your roster has to be made up mostly of players who aren't stars but can do something to help you win.

People above have labeled him an average or marginal starter. Average or marginal starters are valuable players. You need a bunch of them. The Giants are getting about the value from Lorenzo Carter that you'd predict from his draft position. He's not overperforming, which is a little disappointing, but he's far from a bust.

The problem isn't that Carter isn't a star. The problem is that they don't have "star"-level players on defense. If you had 3-4 "game wreckers" or Pro Bowl level guys on the D and then were filling in around them with average or even below-average starters, the D looks very different.

At the risk of stating the obvious, "below-average starter" isn't the same as "below-average player." If you're the 50th-best starting cornerback in the NFL, you're a below-average starter but still a valuable player. Every team likes having guys like that on the roster. But if you're the 150th-best cornerback in the NFL, you're a below-average player, and basically replacement-level. If a 3rd round pick ends up as a below-average starter, you can live with that, though you'd like it if he was better. If he ends up as a below-average player, that's a bust.

He is playing DE in nickel packages because the Giants don't have anyone better to play there.

When they do run 34 (rarely), he is the WLB, which is what he is better suited for.

Once the Giants acquire a second true DE/ER, I think you will see him play LB in the nickel.

If you get your players up front, use him almost like a strong safety. He's fast, he pass defends, height isn't a negative. Occasionally, he can get schemed into gaps or to the edge, but not lined up in the obvious way. Not that type . Not the cat like moves, not the power base.

He seemed that way from the get go.