well why are our receivers never open like that. This article might explain why because our QB is not exploiting zone coverages (usually the long passes in zone are when there is good protection). Now, again, I think DJ can correct this, but this article is convincing in terms of matching what I am seeing on the field.
Another thing is that with the absence of Shepard and Engram and even Tate for the first four games (taking a while to adjust to a new playbook) his route runners might be a cause of him being particularly poor in zone and it would have been nice to see the author account for route running in some way (like measure how good are the receivers reacting the route trees in a zone defense).
Whether or not this gets corrected, I think this is a useful article in terms of DJ's struggles in zone.
I'm not yet convinced that Jones is the long term guy.
I am a huge Jones guy, but I thought he looked very shaky in the Bears game. However, I would caution anyone from drawing too much from one game in any evaluation---Tom Brady just threw fourteen incompletions against the Eagles two weeks ago.
I think with a high pick and a possible coaching (and hopefully GM) change on the horizon, the Giants should be open to drafting a QB if the incoming guy wants it.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
I think with a high pick and a possible coaching (and hopefully GM) change on the horizon, the Giants should be open to drafting a QB if the incoming guy wants it.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
if he is rated as elite with immediate impact skills.. then i agree..
I think with a high pick and a possible coaching (and hopefully GM) change on the horizon, the Giants should be open to drafting a QB if the incoming guy wants it.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
I approach Burrow very cautiously. He's a better prospect than Haskins, but like Haskins he may be a one hit wonder. Only played one full season in college, surrounded by superior talent (at least 6 guys on that offense will play in the NFL), and coached and developed beautifully by LSU OC Joe Brady.
I just prefer more experience, reps, starts.
I think he's worth the stretch using a relatively high pick, but there are concerns.
I've never been enamored with Jones, so I could live with your proposal. Especially if we would take a chance with Joe Brady as the HC... ;)
I like Jones too, but I'm not thinking about the next 10 years Â
I've read a lot here about how we have the QB for the next 10 or even 15 years. I'm not sure why anyone would say that...that means we're going to be willing to, at some point, make Jones the highest paid player in the NFL. I don't see that ever being a good deal.
The pocket presence and ball security are concerning. They were concerning with Eli too...but we lived with it because he delivered two miraculous titles. I don't think Jones will do the same.
The NFL now is as much about avoiding negative plays as it is creating positive ones. You can't be fumbling and taking sacks at this rate. Of course much of that is on the OL, but some of it is on Jones too. To me it has to be cleaned up immediately, because like I said above I'm not looking at the next 10 years...I'm looking at the next 3-4.
If you look around the league, 5 of the top 10 QBs (including the top 3) in QBR are in their rookie contracts: Jackson, Mahomes, Prescott, Watson, & Murray. This is not the NFL in 2000 or even 2010...the QB learning curve has been shortened and Jones has to be good NOW. Otherwise, move on.
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
This guy is taking heat for this article now on Twitter. Â
He's at 6.4 YPA...that's just really poor. If you calculate in sacks (to get his Net Y/A), he is second worst in the NFL ahead of only Trubisky...5.11 NY/A.
The Giants are only getting 5.11 yards per called pass play since Jones took over. By comparison, that number was 5.97 with Eli. The Giants are averaging under 21 PPG in Jones's 9 games.
There are obviously a lot of factors at play...the roster stinks and the coach and GM are a joke, but hard truth is Jones hasn't been as promising as we thought he might be. I don't consider his performance a bright spot on this bleak season.
The Giants need so much more talent on offense before coming to a conclusion on Jones.
The WRs on this team do not create many pitch and catch opportunities, and they certainly aren't getting to spots in zones quickly.
If you want to get a good laugh, there are a number of threads before the season on how great the offensive weapons were, how Manning was going to easily eclipse 4k yards, and how Barkley was going to make it impossible for teams to sit back and play coverage.
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
Jones is probably closest to Trubisky at the moment. The team is just not functioning with him at QB. We know that's not completely his fault, but we need to start seeing it next year. Otherwise it's just cheaper and easier to start over than it is to commit to him. All we can say now is he has failed to elevate the team around him.
If the young guys yeah the only ones is even consider paying are Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson. But I'm just using the word consider. I don't think any of them is worth 15% of a salary cap. I don't think any player is.
The other QBs, if I'm their GM I'm already listening to offers.
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
Jones is probably closest to Trubisky at the moment. The team is just not functioning with him at QB. We know that's not completely his fault, but we need to start seeing it next year. Otherwise it's just cheaper and easier to start over than it is to commit to him. All we can say now is he has failed to elevate the team around him.
If the young guys yeah the only ones is even consider paying are Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson. But I'm just using the word consider. I don't think any of them is worth 15% of a salary cap. I don't think any player is.
The other QBs, if I'm their GM I'm already listening to offers.
Jones is ahead of Trubisky already, imo. Not in experience but in tools displayed. I think it is obvious that Darnold is pulling ahead, for now. So in the last two years I rate Jones behind Lamar, Darnold, Baker, and Allen, for now. Darnold had mono which I think helps explain his rough mid-season. I had a serious case of mono, lost 30+ pounds and wasn't the same for over a year. I think mono is no joke and Darnold stalled because of it. Now he seems to be getting it.
I think Jones has potential to be in this tier but so far he has played poorly. Could be rookie growing pains, but he will need to add consistency to his repertoire. He hasn't shown it yet and ball security is a major issue. When it comes to projecting our guy we have to be cold and objective. So far he has shown flashes. There is reason for hope. But to say QB is not a worry is just ignorant. It's a worry until he proves he's the guy. The jury is still out.
The Giants need so much more talent on offense before coming to a conclusion on Jones.
This is true, but he's already essentially through his rookie season...which has basically been wasted by organizational incompetence. Goff and Wentz just got extensions after their third seasons.
Goff's and Wentz's respective teams had Super Bowl appearances by the end of their third seasons. Are the Giants going to make the Super Bowl in the next two years?
Jones has got to start showing something real ASAP. Otherwise his career is very quickly going to go down as Gettleman's and Shurmur's collateral damage. If I'm betting, Jones isn't our opening day starter in 2022.
Tony Romo may have struggled early in his career, but he had many outstanding games against the Giants.
From 2006-2014 Romo led 27 game-winning drives in the fourth quarter and overtime. He had the most in the NFL over that span, one more than Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan.
Seventy-five of Romos 248 career touchdown passes came in the fourth quarter, that's three more fourth quarter touchdown passes than Staubach and Aikman combined.
The Giants need so much more talent on offense before coming to a conclusion on Jones.
This is true, but he's already essentially through his rookie season...which has basically been wasted by organizational incompetence. Goff and Wentz just got extensions after their third seasons.
Goff's and Wentz's respective teams had Super Bowl appearances by the end of their third seasons. Are the Giants going to make the Super Bowl in the next two years?
Jones has got to start showing something real ASAP. Otherwise his career is very quickly going to go down as Gettleman's and Shurmur's collateral damage. If I'm betting, Jones isn't our opening day starter in 2022.
Absolutely. That's why it was so critical to get Jones playing ASAP. The only smart thing Shurmur did this year was bench Manning fast.
You only get 4 cheap years with a QB, the 5th year on a QB isn't remotely cheap.
I've come to think teams need to function on 4 year windows and be in a place position where they can reassess everything every 4 years.
...for analyzing NFL QBs? Annual word count doesn't imply expertise, I'm thinking, but would be happy to hear that he's been trained to properly evaluate the subject.
When he sets an all time rookie record for TDs this year Â
Needs another year or two before judging.
Quote:
or BBI does an even worse job than the Giants at understanding analysis.
No, either that or people are tired of over analysis and analytics. You know, can't see the forest for the trees....
Forest for the trees? This is pretty basic analysis and people are tired of it?
Should we just stop at 'fuck it, they all suck' and call it a day?
Another thing is that with the absence of Shepard and Engram and even Tate for the first four games (taking a while to adjust to a new playbook) his route runners might be a cause of him being particularly poor in zone and it would have been nice to see the author account for route running in some way (like measure how good are the receivers reacting the route trees in a zone defense).
Whether or not this gets corrected, I think this is a useful article in terms of DJ's struggles in zone.
I don't see how anyone could be yet. The Rams and Eagles fans thought they had their guys and may yet but it looks different now.
I like Jones but it's just too early to christen him.
I am a huge Jones guy, but I thought he looked very shaky in the Bears game. However, I would caution anyone from drawing too much from one game in any evaluation---Tom Brady just threw fourteen incompletions against the Eagles two weeks ago.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
if he is rated as elite with immediate impact skills.. then i agree..
What’s nice is he doesn’t have to be until he gets that monster contract. Jones is a nice player & nice bargain on this contract.
If we can get a coach who can utilize the talent better, he is someone we can win with imo. We aren’t married to Jones.
I'm thinking specifically of Burrow. If Chase Young is taken and Burrow is sitting there for us, I'm fine with making the pick and trading Jones if that's what the new guy wants.
I approach Burrow very cautiously. He's a better prospect than Haskins, but like Haskins he may be a one hit wonder. Only played one full season in college, surrounded by superior talent (at least 6 guys on that offense will play in the NFL), and coached and developed beautifully by LSU OC Joe Brady.
I just prefer more experience, reps, starts.
I think he's worth the stretch using a relatively high pick, but there are concerns.
I've never been enamored with Jones, so I could live with your proposal. Especially if we would take a chance with Joe Brady as the HC... ;)
The pocket presence and ball security are concerning. They were concerning with Eli too...but we lived with it because he delivered two miraculous titles. I don't think Jones will do the same.
The NFL now is as much about avoiding negative plays as it is creating positive ones. You can't be fumbling and taking sacks at this rate. Of course much of that is on the OL, but some of it is on Jones too. To me it has to be cleaned up immediately, because like I said above I'm not looking at the next 10 years...I'm looking at the next 3-4.
If you look around the league, 5 of the top 10 QBs (including the top 3) in QBR are in their rookie contracts: Jackson, Mahomes, Prescott, Watson, & Murray. This is not the NFL in 2000 or even 2010...the QB learning curve has been shortened and Jones has to be good NOW. Otherwise, move on.
2016: Goff & Wentz - both already paid
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
The Giants are only getting 5.11 yards per called pass play since Jones took over. By comparison, that number was 5.97 with Eli. The Giants are averaging under 21 PPG in Jones's 9 games.
There are obviously a lot of factors at play...the roster stinks and the coach and GM are a joke, but hard truth is Jones hasn't been as promising as we thought he might be. I don't consider his performance a bright spot on this bleak season.
The WRs on this team do not create many pitch and catch opportunities, and they certainly aren't getting to spots in zones quickly.
If you want to get a good laugh, there are a number of threads before the season on how great the offensive weapons were, how Manning was going to easily eclipse 4k yards, and how Barkley was going to make it impossible for teams to sit back and play coverage.
2016: Goff & Wentz - both already paid
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
Jones is probably closest to Trubisky at the moment. The team is just not functioning with him at QB. We know that's not completely his fault, but we need to start seeing it next year. Otherwise it's just cheaper and easier to start over than it is to commit to him. All we can say now is he has failed to elevate the team around him.
If the young guys yeah the only ones is even consider paying are Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson. But I'm just using the word consider. I don't think any of them is worth 15% of a salary cap. I don't think any player is.
The other QBs, if I'm their GM I'm already listening to offers.
Quote:
Looking at some of the prominent young QB’s:
2016: Goff & Wentz - both already paid
2017: Trubisky (will get cut likely); Watson & Mahomes will get paid
2018: Mayfield, Darnold & Allen will likely get 2nd deals. Rosen likely won’t. Jackson obviously will.
2019: Murray, Jones & Haskins - still too early
Out of all those names above, would you say only Watson, Mahomes & Jackson deserve the 2nd contract thus far? Would you say Jones is comparable to anyone else on that list not named Trubisky & Haskins?
Jones is probably closest to Trubisky at the moment. The team is just not functioning with him at QB. We know that's not completely his fault, but we need to start seeing it next year. Otherwise it's just cheaper and easier to start over than it is to commit to him. All we can say now is he has failed to elevate the team around him.
If the young guys yeah the only ones is even consider paying are Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson. But I'm just using the word consider. I don't think any of them is worth 15% of a salary cap. I don't think any player is.
The other QBs, if I'm their GM I'm already listening to offers.
Jones is ahead of Trubisky already, imo. Not in experience but in tools displayed. I think it is obvious that Darnold is pulling ahead, for now. So in the last two years I rate Jones behind Lamar, Darnold, Baker, and Allen, for now. Darnold had mono which I think helps explain his rough mid-season. I had a serious case of mono, lost 30+ pounds and wasn't the same for over a year. I think mono is no joke and Darnold stalled because of it. Now he seems to be getting it.
I think Jones has potential to be in this tier but so far he has played poorly. Could be rookie growing pains, but he will need to add consistency to his repertoire. He hasn't shown it yet and ball security is a major issue. When it comes to projecting our guy we have to be cold and objective. So far he has shown flashes. There is reason for hope. But to say QB is not a worry is just ignorant. It's a worry until he proves he's the guy. The jury is still out.
This is true, but he's already essentially through his rookie season...which has basically been wasted by organizational incompetence. Goff and Wentz just got extensions after their third seasons.
Goff's and Wentz's respective teams had Super Bowl appearances by the end of their third seasons. Are the Giants going to make the Super Bowl in the next two years?
Jones has got to start showing something real ASAP. Otherwise his career is very quickly going to go down as Gettleman's and Shurmur's collateral damage. If I'm betting, Jones isn't our opening day starter in 2022.
From 2006-2014 Romo led 27 game-winning drives in the fourth quarter and overtime. He had the most in the NFL over that span, one more than Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan.
Seventy-five of Romos 248 career touchdown passes came in the fourth quarter, that's three more fourth quarter touchdown passes than Staubach and Aikman combined.
Romo was an extraordinary clutch quarterback.
Quote:
The Giants need so much more talent on offense before coming to a conclusion on Jones.
This is true, but he's already essentially through his rookie season...which has basically been wasted by organizational incompetence. Goff and Wentz just got extensions after their third seasons.
Goff's and Wentz's respective teams had Super Bowl appearances by the end of their third seasons. Are the Giants going to make the Super Bowl in the next two years?
Jones has got to start showing something real ASAP. Otherwise his career is very quickly going to go down as Gettleman's and Shurmur's collateral damage. If I'm betting, Jones isn't our opening day starter in 2022.
Absolutely. That's why it was so critical to get Jones playing ASAP. The only smart thing Shurmur did this year was bench Manning fast.
You only get 4 cheap years with a QB, the 5th year on a QB isn't remotely cheap.
I've come to think teams need to function on 4 year windows and be in a place position where they can reassess everything every 4 years.
There should always be an option in house when the QB contract year comes up.
Jones has 7 TDs against zone coverage.
Jones six TDs before Chicago game - ( New Window )