wasn't exactly defendin him, but he was saying they haven't tuned him out which I think is ridiculous. Did he not see him getting the cold shoulder during the Jets game?
Where it’s clear the talent is there, yet he can’t get them to win. And he doesn’t have the Trophy’s to keep messing up.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
Where it’s clear the talent is there, yet he can’t get them to win. And he doesn’t have the Trophy’s to keep messing up.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
He may last the season but he won’t be coaching the Cowboys next year.living here in Dallas all Cowboys fans blame Garrett for teams lack of success.
Tonight I spent Thanksgiving with at least 15 die hard Cowboys fans and everyone wanted Garrett fired after the game. It is over for him.
Granted, with Philly's schedule the way it is (@MIA, NYG, @WAS, DAL, @NYG), Dallas's prospects look grim. But a win over either the Bears or the Rams sets up a likely NFC East Title Game at the Linc in Week 16.
With rare exceptions like Belichick or H*ndl*y, head coaches get too much credit and too much blame. Garrett is a company guy, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Give him 8-8 talent, and he'll probably wind up within a standard deviation or two of 8-8.
2 standard deviations encompass 96%, so yeah...I hope he’d be within 2 most of the time (grin)
Hah - got me there. Stat 101 was a long time ago.
FWIW, I think the bell curve is pretty steep. Given average talent and average injuries, most coaching staffs will cluster between 6-10 and 10-6. North of that range, you're in Belichick territory.
has, you could argue he is doing a worse job than Shurmur. You can blame Prescott but that is a top 3 offense, but there is definitely something wrong because they are not scoring.
Where it’s clear the talent is there, yet he can’t get them to win. And he doesn’t have the Trophy’s to keep messing up.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
A classic example of people only seeing what they want to see.
Look, Coughlin was a good coach and no one is taking his two super bowl trophies away - but how many seasons did his Giant teams start off hot at like 6-2 and then bumble their way through the rest of the season and either get knocked out of the first round of the playoffs or end up missing it entirely?
Coughlin is a better coach than Garrett but the results lately have been similar.
He instinctively started to laugh when I brought up the Garrett and Giants rumors. It wasn't a ball busting and trash talk kind of laugh either, it was genuine amusement.
He's a mediocre to bad coach. They have one of the more talented rosters in the NFL, there is no reason they shouldn't be super bowl contenders this year.
Dallas definitely has plenty of individual talent Â
He is way too conservative a coach and does not have that killler instinct on game day. He flat out admitted that he doesn't utilize in-game analytics in his situational decision making. Up until this year, his offenses have been somewhat old school - not a ton of creativity. His teams have consistently underperformed in big spots, this dates back to Tony Romo at QB. Fair or unfair, he has a reputation as a "yes man".
RE: Dallas definitely has plenty of individual talent Â
but how is Garrett holding them back, specifically in your all's opinion?
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
Coaching "America's Team", with a huge fan base, national exposure, and a talented roster is a dream job for a coach... but how much of a turn-off is JJ.
I think he's a great owner, a very good GM, but his constant meddling might scare off some of the top prospects.
That's probably one of the reasons he's been patient with Garrett. I dont buy all that "he loves Garrett as a person & wants to still believe in him" talk. Finding a winning HC who can put up with JJ's ego may not be an easy task.
If I remember right, Sean Payton was next in line after Wade Phillips, but he opted to go to the Saints (post Katrina, which wasnt an easy move for his family) because he didnt think he could co-exist with JJ.
but how is Garrett holding them back, specifically in your all's opinion?
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
Kicker misses 2 chip shots.
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
RE: RE: RE: Dallas definitely has plenty of individual talent Â
but how is Garrett holding them back, specifically in your all's opinion?
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
Do you have an answer to my question?
It's been answered.
He has had one of the more talented rosters in the league for the past several seasons and he's won 1 playoff game in that time. If the talent is on the roster and they still can't win, there is no one left to blame but the HC and his staff. No other specifics are needed.
He is way too conservative a coach and does not have that killler instinct on game day. He flat out admitted that he doesn't utilize in-game analytics in his situational decision making. Up until this year, his offenses have been somewhat old school - not a ton of creativity. His teams have consistently underperformed in big spots, this dates back to Tony Romo at QB. Fair or unfair, he has a reputation as a "yes man".
This, and the offense has went back to its conservative roots after that Jets loss. Clear as day, instead of blaming himself for his team coming out flat as fuck, beat up against an inferior opponent getting their QB back after what is essentially a lost season because he got Mono on the road, he dips back to what is comfortable for him. A smart coach is able to show his team what they are walking into in that Jets game. They played that first half like all they had to do was show up to win.
Googs: I think the specific complaints about Garrett... Â
...tend to cluster around a few issues.
1) Conservatism/timidity. This one came to a head after he kicked a field goal to reduce the deficit from seven to four against New England. Fairly or not, Garrett is viewed as a "play the percentages" coach who doesn't even have a firm grasp of the actual percentages.
2) Lack of team discipline. I'm not sure how the off-field stuff lands on Garrett. If the Joneses draft headcases, and sign headcases as free agents, the headcases are going to do headcase stuff outside the lines.
3) Finding ways to lose. This is the killer, and it's closely related to #2. The Jet game may have been the beginning of the end for Jason Garrett, because Dallas dominated for most of the game, and they didn't even turn the ball over. They simply couldn't get out of the hole they dug early. They tried to repeat this pattern against the Giants, but failed because the Giants wouldn't accept the gift.
The Cowboys are a juggernaut between the 20s, and when they win, they usually win big: their narrowest victory was 8 points, and they have led by at least two TDs in the fourth quarter of all six wins. That probably leads fans to conclude the team is talent laden, rightly or wrongly. Dallas is 0-4 in close games. That doesn't reflect well on the head coach, though it's a small sample and three of those games were against title contenders. Again, the Jet game stands out, and not in a good way.
How do people know this? In other words...for teams that have bad coaching, like the giants, how can you truly assess talent?
How do we know that Garrett and his coaching staff have maximized the talent on the roster? Is Prescott really that good or has Garrett put him in a position to succeed?
Cowboy fans should be careful what they ask for....getting a new coach is no easy task and Garrett and his staff have them competitive every year. I would welcome that staff based on the last five plus years.
I'm not a fan of Garrett's but I also don't get the criticism he takes Â
If really this is just about how a talented team like theirs should be doing better than so be it.
I just see a team that is typically pretty damn competitive, has won the NFCE several times in the last few years and is able to develop a lot of talent on the field no matter whey have come from.
Dallas is not exactly a place that has low expectations though...
If really this is just about how a talented team like theirs should be doing better than so be it.
I just see a team that is typically pretty damn competitive, has won the NFCE several times in the last few years and is able to develop a lot of talent on the field no matter whey have come from.
Dallas is not exactly a place that has low expectations though...
I agree. Personally I think that you can't have a talented team with out good coaching...kids rarely show up from college already "talented". Look at the players that left New England...they almost always play down a level.
RE: Man, whatever problems the Cowboys are having... Â
...the Giants would be very grateful to have their "problems."
Their problems are fixable in the last third of this season.
Our problems will stretch for a decade, if not more.
I don't know about that, how are these problems fixable when this is who your head coach fundamentally is. They have yet to beat a good team this season with a few of those games taking place at home. And its the same story in every loss, their loaded offense doesn't put up points. This isn't like us, where we are just looking for a perennial playoff births right now. Its an organization that has a pretty stacked roster who drafted a decent QB in the 4th round effectively saving 30 million in cap space. All the talk was about the Eagles before the season, but I always thought it was Dallas that had legit SB odds. Eagles are old as fuck, no surprise half their roster is injured.
Kicker misses 2 chip shots.
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
What to the BBI experts think of this. I’m not football savvy enough to evaluate QB play at this level. Generally think Dak is pretty darn good. Is he really a coach killer.
but Garrett has a long history of coming up short, no idea why anyone is just looking at 2019 Dallas. He came up short with Romo too, arguably had better teams then as well.
He’s a guy that for whatever reason doesn’t seem like he can get over the hump. I hope he’s given a nice fat extension.
Kicker misses 2 chip shots.
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
What to the BBI experts think of this. I’m not football savvy enough to evaluate QB play at this level. Generally think Dak is pretty darn good. Is he really a coach killer.
That's really the definition of coach killer. Clearly has talent and always looks just good enough to keep him under contract. Never wins the big game. Always makes mistakes at the worst possible time. Who doesn't think Cowboys arw better if a healthy Romo is behind center? Just my dopey opinion but I think Prescott is holding that team back. Although I guess one could argue a better coach would do more to mask his weaknesses, and build an offense that he could be more consistent in.
but Garrett has a long history of coming up short, no idea why anyone is just looking at 2019 Dallas. He came up short with Romo too, arguably had better teams then as well.
He’s a guy that for whatever reason doesn’t seem like he can get over the hump. I hope he’s given a nice fat extension.
Hard to argue with you on that. They are both a problem... lol
It used to be universally agreed that Jerry Jones was the problem. Annointing himself as GM would impact the team talent level, and meddling with the HC, Garret and his predecessors, would ultimately prevent them from success.
And I beleive that was true when the Giants defeated Romo lead teams in the Aughts
However, now none of that is mentioned. Jones is in the Hall oF Fame, and everyone agrees the team has above average talent and that the teams failures are due to Garrett himself. No meddling. Kudos to Jerry for addressing what were perceived as permament obstacles, but bad news for Garrett
I rewatched the pats game and I will rewatch this Dallas bills game Â
He is one of the worst 3rd down Qbs in the nfl. He doesn’t have a feel for pressure. Often late on throws because he’s never had to deal with constant heat. Look at daniel jones pressure numbers compared to Dak. Take the names out of it and then tell me who the rookie is and who the 4th year qb is. Good luck.
and he’s 2-3 in the playoffs. How can anyone defend that? I watch him continually make really stupid decisions, similar to the in game mistakes we’ve dealt with.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
RE: I have a family friend who is a die hard Cowboys fan, I see him every Â
Dallas had the worst defense in football from 2010-2013 yet they were basically 500 under Garrett during that stretch. They also sunk to a decayed level of play and culture prior to Garrett’s arrival in 2010. He helped turn Dallas from terrible to competitive.
If romo doesn’t miss a wide open wr in 2011 they win that division.
Garrett is far from perfect but he’s done more good than bad in Dallas. I know it’s crazy to suggest it, but I’d still take him as HC with nyg. I think he’d be terrific for jones and Barkley. And he presided over a team that went from no D to a good D. I’d take that here.
RE: RE: I'm not a fan of Garrett's but I also don't get the criticism he takes Â
If really this is just about how a talented team like theirs should be doing better than so be it.
Isn’t that the definition of coaching. Maximizing the performance of the talent. Isn’t that just what Garrett hasn’t done.
How do you know he hasn't though really? Maybe there incoming talent level needs to be tempered and he and his coaches have brought them up higher. Cowboys have had far less busts/disappointments from the draft then the Giants...maybe its because Garrett & Co develop and teach their players better.
Parcells turned around laced that team with 3 HoFers Â
1st and 10 for Dallas. 330 left in the 2nd. This is the strip sack fumble.
Dak drops back in the pocket 5 step drop. Pats the ball 5 times and doesn’t move off that point. Doesn’t step up. Doesn’t slide He just simply doesn’t move! Then he gets stripped from behind. That play is on him not his tackles and not his line. He has no feel for the game. This is the series after he threw a horrible screen pass on a play where they actually had the correct play called. Pollard was late on the fake but even so, he threw the ball with no touch no trajectory to get it over the lineman. Back to back terrible series for Dak but people want to ignore that because of his inflated numbers vs sub 500 teams. Jerry and the Dallas franchise are doing the smart thing with Dak. Let him get exposed and sign him at a discount. It’s happening
And for all this talk of “Dallas can’t win the big one with Garrett” Â
Which is nothing more than a prediction based on a possible outcome, Dallas COULD have won the NFC under Garrett. They came very very close. I know I was worried a few times the last 9 seasons. To me, could had won carries more weight than they won’t win. One is truth, the other is made up opinion.
than what we watch on game day, no different from any other team. He’s got 2 playoff wins in 9 seasons. How many first time HCs like that exist right now?
And he may be great at developing talent but that really doesn’t mean shit if he keeps botching it on game day, at least if he stays as a HC.
and he’s 2-3 in the playoffs. How can anyone defend that? I watch him continually make really stupid decisions, similar to the in game mistakes we’ve dealt with.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
Beat the Seahawks in the playoffs last year. Given how Wilson always seems to find a way to get a win when he doesn't deserve it, I don't think that could be overlooked.
BTW, Dak was really looking bad last season. Not sure what the Cowboys did to resurrect/hide him....maybe it was the Cooper trade, but he was struggling for a bit there and then all of that has been conveniently forgotten.
“Almost won” the NFC. They were given the Detroit game on the botched call so we can play that game if you really want. That brings him to what, 1-3 in the playoffs?
Dak runs hot and cold. If Daniel Jones or Eli could work Â
behind that line, I think the Cowboys would waltz into the playoffs. Garrett? He's an easy-going guy who's smart enough to know who calls the shots and signs the paychecks. I'm baffled by how their offense has fallen apart after Kellen Moore looked so good calling plays early in the year.
“Almost won” the NFC. They were given the Detroit game on the botched call so we can play that game if you really want. That brings him to what, 1-3 in the playoffs?
they won more than one playoff game under GArrett.
Yes we can play that game all day long. We can play that game with many of the so called great HCs too. Want to play the Coughlin game?
I'm just saying, who else are we going to get as HC here?
You want garbage? we have that. You want legendary? where the fuck is that guy? You want a guy that left Dallas in better shape than what he inherited, and has been known to do terrific things with young QBs, has playoff postseason experience--and he MIGHT actually be available?
Devil you know might be better than some fucking loser.
6-1 vs teams .500 or below. That is not the sign of a good coach. I will be very disappointed if Garrett is our next HC.
What was Coughlin's record in 2006 against good teams?
Stats are fun and they can assist us at times,but are they the end all be all?
I'll say it again, Dallas was this close to winning an NFC title under GArret--more than once. I know they didn't, but that doesn't mean GArrett was the reason why. I know they won a lot more games than they didn't, under Garrett, and I think he deserves some credit for that. The body of work is too large to just dismiss his contributions or label the guy as lucky. HE was lucky at times, and also unlucky. It took a heroic and legendary performance out of Rodgers to keep Dallas out of two NFC title games. The guy was literally one or two plays from the NFC title game. Twice.
I like that in a coach. Maybe he is another Schottenheimer, doomed to postseason failure every year. I still take my chances with that guy every time over some unproven guy that will have this team chasing its own tail every season.
and if Garrett isn’t going to win with a better roster in Dallas why do you want him here. And yes if he loses that game against Detroit like he should have he’s have 1 playoff win on his resume. That’s terrible.
Yes he’s better than Shurmur - that’s what we should settle for?
RE: Dak runs hot and cold. If Daniel Jones or Eli could work Â
behind that line, I think the Cowboys would waltz into the playoffs. Garrett? He's an easy-going guy who's smart enough to know who calls the shots and signs the paychecks. I'm baffled by how their offense has fallen apart after Kellen Moore looked so good calling plays early in the year.
all you want, but it never happened. Shit statistically it should have happened at least once by now as every NFC team has a 1-8 chance to make it every year on an even floor.
And he has had odds tilted in his favor with some better than average talent over the years, tremendous support staff (its practically an unfair competitive advantage that he has had Marinelli that isn't a HC candidate for reasons), and back to back QB play anything from arguably elite to average over 10 years. Good coaching is what separates the winners from the losers when the good teams play, where details matter and every little mistake gets highlighted.
What the hell is the argument that he is a good coach? He won some games in this sceneraio? Fuck I could coach the Cowboys to a winning record under these circumstances. And I don't think he's a bad coach, now thatPat Shurmur is a bad coach, he is just merely a mediocre one. And this isnthe year I thought Garrett was either going to be forever known as a mediocre coach or a good one. He has time to turn it around but so far he hasn't rang that bell.
were Dez Bryant should have been awarded a TD -- I think the Cowboys were robbed of a championship that year
So you’re just going to ignore the fact that Dallas shouldn’t have even been in that game? The refs handed them the game the week before, so no, Dallas wasn’t “robbed” of a championship. Besides the fact that winning that game wouldn’t have been an automatic championship anyways. They would have had two games left
You all slide off topic too much. Back on track with what Â
specifically does Garrett struggle at that is the problem from a HC position?
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
did the refs gift the Cowboys the win vs. the Lions the week before with that ridiculous pass interference call, but how can anyone say for sure that a catch by Bryant would have meant a Cowboys win? I hate when people just assume that Dallas would have beaten GB if they ruled that a catch. Even if they scored a TD, there was still 4 minutes left in the game and they would have had to convert a 2 point conversion just to go up by three. Rodgers would have had plenty of time to take the Packers down the field to tie or win the game.
RE: You all slide off topic too much. Back on track with what Â
specifically does Garrett struggle at that is the problem from a HC position?
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
That’s the bottom line. The HC is accountable for everything, not just one aspect. It’s about big picture with the HC. Dallas has so many favorable things by virtue of being America’s team (schedule, calls — year they do get that). He’s has talent, successful coordinators, everything you need to be successful. He competes in a division that is a two team race every year and Philly tends to be up and down themselves. And yet the results are underachieving. Are his teams prepared? Does he motivate? I don’t know, but he doesn’t strike me as a leader, and that’s the number one quality you need in a HC. Specifically I can’t say —I’m not in the room. But results speak for themselves.
Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
specifically does Garrett struggle at that is the problem from a HC position?
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
That’s the bottom line. The HC is accountable for everything, not just one aspect. It’s about big picture with the HC. Dallas has so many favorable things by virtue of being America’s team (schedule, calls — year they do get that). He’s has talent, successful coordinators, everything you need to be successful. He competes in a division that is a two team race every year and Philly tends to be up and down themselves. And yet the results are underachieving. Are his teams prepared? Does he motivate? I don’t know, but he doesn’t strike me as a leader, and that’s the number one quality you need in a HC. Specifically I can’t say —I’m not in the room. But results speak for themselves.
This is kinda my take on him too. Not as much what he falls short at as much as not being really standout at anything either. Milquetoast coach. A step up from Shurm granted but that isn't necessarily a badge of honor either.
RE: RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
I am not arguing he's great, nor winning the division once is either. But he has done it 3 of the past 5 years, and in the once in a blue moon years the Giants or Redskins played well.
Is it possible us Giant fans have overrated the Cowboys talent and underestimated what it takes to win there? Is it possible Garrett actually provides more than just what we think is conservative gameplans?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
sure it’s possible, I’d be lying if I said otherwise. But I think Garrett is an average coach. There’s a very large sample size for him and over the years he’s never sealed the deal and usually never even came close. If we had 1 coach for an entire decade that only has 2 playoffs wins that would be a massive failure, IMO.
They’ve been drafting well and he should get credit for some of that too. But still, I see a team that’s top 5, possibly top 3 from a talent standpoint and I would have expected a lot more out of it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
Fair enough, i was just throwing out concepts that when the Giants were a #1 seed they underperformed in the playoffs the most. Not every playoff is a lightening in a bottle year like 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying Garrett is all that and a bag of chips, just that I find that he put's up a very competitive team each year. He has not delivered a champion (or even a close champion) and you all agree he should lose his job for it. I just don't...
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
Fair enough, i was just throwing out concepts that when the Giants were a #1 seed they underperformed in the playoffs the most. Not every playoff is a lightening in a bottle year like 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying Garrett is all that and a bag of chips, just that I find that he put's up a very competitive team each year. He has not delivered a champion (or even a close champion) and you all agree he should lose his job for it. I just don't...
I think we all agree that he shouldn't be the next coach of the Giants.
sure it’s possible, I’d be lying if I said otherwise. But I think Garrett is an average coach. There’s a very large sample size for him and over the years he’s never sealed the deal and usually never even came close. If we had 1 coach for an entire decade that only has 2 playoffs wins that would be a massive failure, IMO.
They’ve been drafting well and he should get credit for some of that too. But still, I see a team that’s top 5, possibly top 3 from a talent standpoint and I would have expected a lot more out of it.
Fair enough as well. I actually think Garrett is an above average coach but I realize that comes with the facts that when he plays other above avg coaches/teams in the playoffs they have gotten the better of him.
I am not sure I agree on that talent assessment, or what I was trying to say earlier...maybe his team is only about a #15 in talent but as a coach he brings them up to #5 with how he prepares and develops them.
I just don't think he should lose his job for what is is achieving in Dallas. But expectations are very high there...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
There is a pro bowl caliber player, or multiple pro bowl level players, on every single unit of that team. They're loaded. Byron Jones, Jaylen Smith, LVE, Sean Lee, DLaw and Quinn would all be the best defensive players on our team. Guys like Awuzie, Lewis and Collins are nice complimentary pieces on par with our best defensive players. They have an elite and deep OL, a stud RB and a perfectly complimented trio of WRs in Cooper, Gallup and Cobb. People will be all over the map on Dak but I believe he's in that deep 2nd tier of QBs behind the obvious elite guys. Meaning he'll rarely lose you games and is capable of lighting you up if the rest of the O is humming. That team is stacked.
There is a pro bowl caliber player, or multiple pro bowl level players, on every single unit of that team. They're loaded. Byron Jones, Jaylen Smith, LVE, Sean Lee, DLaw and Quinn would all be the best defensive players on our team. Guys like Awuzie, Lewis and Collins are nice complimentary pieces on par with our best defensive players. They have an elite and deep OL, a stud RB and a perfectly complimented trio of WRs in Cooper, Gallup and Cobb. People will be all over the map on Dak but I believe he's in that deep 2nd tier of QBs behind the obvious elite guys. Meaning he'll rarely lose you games and is capable of lighting you up if the rest of the O is humming. That team is stacked.
Geez...maybe your right.
We could use a guy like Garrett to help us coach against their, albeit few, weaknesses...
He has never gotten to the NFC championship game. He is 2-3 in playoffs. He has tried to build the team to look like the SB teams of the 90’s. He struggles against top tier coaches. The team does have superior talent. Dak is average and has padded his stats against weak teams. He is not accurate and cannot consistently throw receivers open. Teams beat the Cowboys by stopping Zeke and making Dak beat them.
Garrett is not a difference maker that could mold this team.
and he’s 2-3 in the playoffs. How can anyone defend that? I watch him continually make really stupid decisions, similar to the in game mistakes we’ve dealt with.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
And those two wins involved a bogus call that kept them alive against Detroit and a Seattle game that was somehow close late despite an overwhelming talent advantage for Dallas.
Hell no to Jason Garrett.
RE: RE: RE: Are they really underachieving if his teams have won the division Â
3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
I am not arguing he's great, nor winning the division once is either. But he has done it 3 of the past 5 years, and in the once in a blue moon years the Giants or Redskins played well.
Is it possible us Giant fans have overrated the Cowboys talent and underestimated what it takes to win there? Is it possible Garrett actually provides more than just what we think is conservative gameplans?
I tend to lean towards this line of thinking...the talent is there because the head coach created it...it didn’t just appear and Garrett keeps screwing it up and losing games.
Not against these defenses.
He has been sick of Garrett since like 2012.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
In comment 14695031 nzyme said:
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Where it’s clear the talent is there, yet he can’t get them to win. And he doesn’t have the Trophy’s to keep messing up.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
When did TC fail to win here despite the team being talented enough? They sucked on skates from 2013-2015.
Garrett is well above 500 as Dallas HC. He’s not having a good year this season but overall he’s won a lot of games in Dallas.
Tonight I spent Thanksgiving with at least 15 die hard Cowboys fans and everyone wanted Garrett fired after the game. It is over for him.
With rare exceptions like Belichick or H*ndl*y, head coaches get too much credit and too much blame. Garrett is a company guy, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Give him 8-8 talent, and he'll probably wind up within a standard deviation or two of 8-8.
I'm not a Cowboys fan (far from it) and they should be winning more games. That is a fully loaded roster.
FWIW, I think the bell curve is pretty steep. Given average talent and average injuries, most coaching staffs will cluster between 6-10 and 10-6. North of that range, you're in Belichick territory.
Whatever, it made for a better Thanksgiving Day.
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Where it’s clear the talent is there, yet he can’t get them to win. And he doesn’t have the Trophy’s to keep messing up.
A TC moment? Are you referring to Tom Coughlin? A couple of problems with that. Tom Coughlin took those teams to two Super Bowl wins beating Tom Brady and the Patriots TWICE!
When you say the talent was there what are you talking about? The last 5 years TC was here the roster was atrocious! If that wasn't the truth then Jerry Reese would still be the GM of this team.
A classic example of people only seeing what they want to see.
Look, Coughlin was a good coach and no one is taking his two super bowl trophies away - but how many seasons did his Giant teams start off hot at like 6-2 and then bumble their way through the rest of the season and either get knocked out of the first round of the playoffs or end up missing it entirely?
Coughlin is a better coach than Garrett but the results lately have been similar.
He's a mediocre to bad coach. They have one of the more talented rosters in the NFL, there is no reason they shouldn't be super bowl contenders this year.
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
I think he's a great owner, a very good GM, but his constant meddling might scare off some of the top prospects.
That's probably one of the reasons he's been patient with Garrett. I dont buy all that "he loves Garrett as a person & wants to still believe in him" talk. Finding a winning HC who can put up with JJ's ego may not be an easy task.
If I remember right, Sean Payton was next in line after Wade Phillips, but he opted to go to the Saints (post Katrina, which wasnt an easy move for his family) because he didnt think he could co-exist with JJ.
No you're right... after Parcells. He was on Parcells staff.
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but how is Garrett holding them back, specifically in your all's opinion?
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
Do you have an answer to my question?
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
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In comment 14695112 Jimmy Googs said:
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but how is Garrett holding them back, specifically in your all's opinion?
If its all just that he hasn't won anything or the big game then fine, but just wondered if anybody here had a more lasered-view.
So in the case of Dallas, where there is a significant amount of individual talent, the record is not the fault of the head coach. However, for the Giants, who have a dearth of individual talent, the record is all Shurmur's fault (not that I think Shurmur's a good HC). Just sayin', why should we judge Garrett any differently than Shurmur is being judged?
Sad fact...Garrett can thank the NY Football Giants for 33% of his wins this year.
Do you have an answer to my question?
It's been answered.
He has had one of the more talented rosters in the league for the past several seasons and he's won 1 playoff game in that time. If the talent is on the roster and they still can't win, there is no one left to blame but the HC and his staff. No other specifics are needed.
This, and the offense has went back to its conservative roots after that Jets loss. Clear as day, instead of blaming himself for his team coming out flat as fuck, beat up against an inferior opponent getting their QB back after what is essentially a lost season because he got Mono on the road, he dips back to what is comfortable for him. A smart coach is able to show his team what they are walking into in that Jets game. They played that first half like all they had to do was show up to win.
1) Conservatism/timidity. This one came to a head after he kicked a field goal to reduce the deficit from seven to four against New England. Fairly or not, Garrett is viewed as a "play the percentages" coach who doesn't even have a firm grasp of the actual percentages.
2) Lack of team discipline. I'm not sure how the off-field stuff lands on Garrett. If the Joneses draft headcases, and sign headcases as free agents, the headcases are going to do headcase stuff outside the lines.
3) Finding ways to lose. This is the killer, and it's closely related to #2. The Jet game may have been the beginning of the end for Jason Garrett, because Dallas dominated for most of the game, and they didn't even turn the ball over. They simply couldn't get out of the hole they dug early. They tried to repeat this pattern against the Giants, but failed because the Giants wouldn't accept the gift.
The Cowboys are a juggernaut between the 20s, and when they win, they usually win big: their narrowest victory was 8 points, and they have led by at least two TDs in the fourth quarter of all six wins. That probably leads fans to conclude the team is talent laden, rightly or wrongly. Dallas is 0-4 in close games. That doesn't reflect well on the head coach, though it's a small sample and three of those games were against title contenders. Again, the Jet game stands out, and not in a good way.
...the Giants would be very grateful to have their "problems."
Their problems are fixable in the last third of this season.
Our problems will stretch for a decade, if not more.
How do we know that Garrett and his coaching staff have maximized the talent on the roster? Is Prescott really that good or has Garrett put him in a position to succeed?
Cowboy fans should be careful what they ask for....getting a new coach is no easy task and Garrett and his staff have them competitive every year. I would welcome that staff based on the last five plus years.
I just see a team that is typically pretty damn competitive, has won the NFCE several times in the last few years and is able to develop a lot of talent on the field no matter whey have come from.
Dallas is not exactly a place that has low expectations though...
I just see a team that is typically pretty damn competitive, has won the NFCE several times in the last few years and is able to develop a lot of talent on the field no matter whey have come from.
Dallas is not exactly a place that has low expectations though...
I agree. Personally I think that you can't have a talented team with out good coaching...kids rarely show up from college already "talented". Look at the players that left New England...they almost always play down a level.
...the Giants would be very grateful to have their "problems."
Their problems are fixable in the last third of this season.
Our problems will stretch for a decade, if not more.
I don't know about that, how are these problems fixable when this is who your head coach fundamentally is. They have yet to beat a good team this season with a few of those games taking place at home. And its the same story in every loss, their loaded offense doesn't put up points. This isn't like us, where we are just looking for a perennial playoff births right now. Its an organization that has a pretty stacked roster who drafted a decent QB in the 4th round effectively saving 30 million in cap space. All the talk was about the Eagles before the season, but I always thought it was Dallas that had legit SB odds. Eagles are old as fuck, no surprise half their roster is injured.
I wouldn't want either but if I had to pick between them I would take Garrett 6 ways from Sunday.
Isn’t that the definition of coaching. Maximizing the performance of the talent. Isn’t that just what Garrett hasn’t done.
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
What to the BBI experts think of this. I’m not football savvy enough to evaluate QB play at this level. Generally think Dak is pretty darn good. Is he really a coach killer.
He’s a guy that for whatever reason doesn’t seem like he can get over the hump. I hope he’s given a nice fat extension.
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Kicker misses 2 chip shots.
Dak is brutal on third d
Dak is brutal with any sort of pressure around him
Dak is terrible when he has to run for and pickup yards. Twice he came up short when he easily should have had the first down.
Instead of blaming the coach check out Daks footwork in anything less than a perfect pocket. You will see a guy who has no concept how to play in anything less than an ideal pocket. So many times yesterday the slightest pressure near him instead of sliding to avoid the pressure he either just tucks and runs or just throws the ball to any wr he can quickly. It’s either I have a clean pocket or I have to run. Never a thought about scrambling and resetting his feet. He is brutal and that is the hard truth about the Dallas offense.
What to the BBI experts think of this. I’m not football savvy enough to evaluate QB play at this level. Generally think Dak is pretty darn good. Is he really a coach killer.
That's really the definition of coach killer. Clearly has talent and always looks just good enough to keep him under contract. Never wins the big game. Always makes mistakes at the worst possible time. Who doesn't think Cowboys arw better if a healthy Romo is behind center? Just my dopey opinion but I think Prescott is holding that team back. Although I guess one could argue a better coach would do more to mask his weaknesses, and build an offense that he could be more consistent in.
He’s a guy that for whatever reason doesn’t seem like he can get over the hump. I hope he’s given a nice fat extension.
Hard to argue with you on that. They are both a problem... lol
And I beleive that was true when the Giants defeated Romo lead teams in the Aughts
However, now none of that is mentioned. Jones is in the Hall oF Fame, and everyone agrees the team has above average talent and that the teams failures are due to Garrett himself. No meddling. Kudos to Jerry for addressing what were perceived as permament obstacles, but bad news for Garrett
Look at 2 things.
3rd down efficiency and throws under pressure.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
He has been sick of Garrett since like 2012.
Dallas had the worst defense in football from 2010-2013 yet they were basically 500 under Garrett during that stretch. They also sunk to a decayed level of play and culture prior to Garrett’s arrival in 2010. He helped turn Dallas from terrible to competitive.
If romo doesn’t miss a wide open wr in 2011 they win that division.
Garrett is far from perfect but he’s done more good than bad in Dallas. I know it’s crazy to suggest it, but I’d still take him as HC with nyg. I think he’d be terrific for jones and Barkley. And he presided over a team that went from no D to a good D. I’d take that here.
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If really this is just about how a talented team like theirs should be doing better than so be it.
Isn’t that the definition of coaching. Maximizing the performance of the talent. Isn’t that just what Garrett hasn’t done.
How do you know he hasn't though really? Maybe there incoming talent level needs to be tempered and he and his coaches have brought them up higher. Cowboys have had far less busts/disappointments from the draft then the Giants...maybe its because Garrett & Co develop and teach their players better.
Garrett has been a caretaker.
Dak drops back in the pocket 5 step drop. Pats the ball 5 times and doesn’t move off that point. Doesn’t step up. Doesn’t slide He just simply doesn’t move! Then he gets stripped from behind. That play is on him not his tackles and not his line. He has no feel for the game. This is the series after he threw a horrible screen pass on a play where they actually had the correct play called. Pollard was late on the fake but even so, he threw the ball with no touch no trajectory to get it over the lineman. Back to back terrible series for Dak but people want to ignore that because of his inflated numbers vs sub 500 teams. Jerry and the Dallas franchise are doing the smart thing with Dak. Let him get exposed and sign him at a discount. It’s happening
And he may be great at developing talent but that really doesn’t mean shit if he keeps botching it on game day, at least if he stays as a HC.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
Beat the Seahawks in the playoffs last year. Given how Wilson always seems to find a way to get a win when he doesn't deserve it, I don't think that could be overlooked.
BTW, Dak was really looking bad last season. Not sure what the Cowboys did to resurrect/hide him....maybe it was the Cooper trade, but he was struggling for a bit there and then all of that has been conveniently forgotten.
they won more than one playoff game under GArrett.
Yes we can play that game all day long. We can play that game with many of the so called great HCs too. Want to play the Coughlin game?
I'm just saying, who else are we going to get as HC here?
You want garbage? we have that. You want legendary? where the fuck is that guy? You want a guy that left Dallas in better shape than what he inherited, and has been known to do terrific things with young QBs, has playoff postseason experience--and he MIGHT actually be available?
Devil you know might be better than some fucking loser.
What was Coughlin's record in 2006 against good teams?
Stats are fun and they can assist us at times,but are they the end all be all?
I'll say it again, Dallas was this close to winning an NFC title under GArret--more than once. I know they didn't, but that doesn't mean GArrett was the reason why. I know they won a lot more games than they didn't, under Garrett, and I think he deserves some credit for that. The body of work is too large to just dismiss his contributions or label the guy as lucky. HE was lucky at times, and also unlucky. It took a heroic and legendary performance out of Rodgers to keep Dallas out of two NFC title games. The guy was literally one or two plays from the NFC title game. Twice.
I like that in a coach. Maybe he is another Schottenheimer, doomed to postseason failure every year. I still take my chances with that guy every time over some unproven guy that will have this team chasing its own tail every season.
Yes he’s better than Shurmur - that’s what we should settle for?
"Or Eli". LMAO. Stop please
And he has had odds tilted in his favor with some better than average talent over the years, tremendous support staff (its practically an unfair competitive advantage that he has had Marinelli that isn't a HC candidate for reasons), and back to back QB play anything from arguably elite to average over 10 years. Good coaching is what separates the winners from the losers when the good teams play, where details matter and every little mistake gets highlighted.
What the hell is the argument that he is a good coach? He won some games in this sceneraio? Fuck I could coach the Cowboys to a winning record under these circumstances. And I don't think he's a bad coach, now thatPat Shurmur is a bad coach, he is just merely a mediocre one. And this isnthe year I thought Garrett was either going to be forever known as a mediocre coach or a good one. He has time to turn it around but so far he hasn't rang that bell.
That sums it up very nicely.
I would add a worse GM, too... ;)
That 07 team as well. Patrick Crayton dropped pass. That cowboys team was loaded all around
Why no mention of the free win the game earlier? They shouldn’t have been in that game anyway. Seems like a fitting ending.
So you’re just going to ignore the fact that Dallas shouldn’t have even been in that game? The refs handed them the game the week before, so no, Dallas wasn’t “robbed” of a championship. Besides the fact that winning that game wouldn’t have been an automatic championship anyways. They would have had two games left
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
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specifically does Garrett struggle at that is the problem from a HC position?
Again...I hear you some of you say the general comment relative to not winning the big game but is he making coaching mistakes in these "big games" or the ones needing to win before advancing to the big game? And if so...what?
That’s the bottom line. The HC is accountable for everything, not just one aspect. It’s about big picture with the HC. Dallas has so many favorable things by virtue of being America’s team (schedule, calls — year they do get that). He’s has talent, successful coordinators, everything you need to be successful. He competes in a division that is a two team race every year and Philly tends to be up and down themselves. And yet the results are underachieving. Are his teams prepared? Does he motivate? I don’t know, but he doesn’t strike me as a leader, and that’s the number one quality you need in a HC. Specifically I can’t say —I’m not in the room. But results speak for themselves.
This is kinda my take on him too. Not as much what he falls short at as much as not being really standout at anything either. Milquetoast coach. A step up from Shurm granted but that isn't necessarily a badge of honor either.
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
I am not arguing he's great, nor winning the division once is either. But he has done it 3 of the past 5 years, and in the once in a blue moon years the Giants or Redskins played well.
Is it possible us Giant fans have overrated the Cowboys talent and underestimated what it takes to win there? Is it possible Garrett actually provides more than just what we think is conservative gameplans?
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In comment 14695393 Mendenhall64 said:
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
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In comment 14695394 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 14695393 Mendenhall64 said:
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
They’ve been drafting well and he should get credit for some of that too. But still, I see a team that’s top 5, possibly top 3 from a talent standpoint and I would have expected a lot more out of it.
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In comment 14695394 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 14695393 Mendenhall64 said:
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
Fair enough, i was just throwing out concepts that when the Giants were a #1 seed they underperformed in the playoffs the most. Not every playoff is a lightening in a bottle year like 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying Garrett is all that and a bag of chips, just that I find that he put's up a very competitive team each year. He has not delivered a champion (or even a close champion) and you all agree he should lose his job for it. I just don't...
That seems like a lateral move at best to me.
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In comment 14695399 Mendenhall64 said:
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In comment 14695394 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 14695393 Mendenhall64 said:
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Maybe just play in one?
Ok, were they supposedly NFC favorites either?
Like the Giants were in 2000, 2007, and 2011?
How about 2008?
Aren't we talking about the Cowboys lack of achievement under Garrett?
Here you are giving Garrett a pass for not playing in a Superbowl when they weren't favored and I give you examples of teams that weren't favored that did and your response is "How about 2008?" Sorry. Not going down that rabbit hole so you can change the subject.
Fair enough, i was just throwing out concepts that when the Giants were a #1 seed they underperformed in the playoffs the most. Not every playoff is a lightening in a bottle year like 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying Garrett is all that and a bag of chips, just that I find that he put's up a very competitive team each year. He has not delivered a champion (or even a close champion) and you all agree he should lose his job for it. I just don't...
I think we all agree that he shouldn't be the next coach of the Giants.
They’ve been drafting well and he should get credit for some of that too. But still, I see a team that’s top 5, possibly top 3 from a talent standpoint and I would have expected a lot more out of it.
Fair enough as well. I actually think Garrett is an above average coach but I realize that comes with the facts that when he plays other above avg coaches/teams in the playoffs they have gotten the better of him.
I am not sure I agree on that talent assessment, or what I was trying to say earlier...maybe his team is only about a #15 in talent but as a coach he brings them up to #5 with how he prepares and develops them.
I just don't think he should lose his job for what is is achieving in Dallas. But expectations are very high there...
I think we all agree that he shouldn't be the next coach of the Giants.
I am not agreeing to that.
I haven't given new alternatives one bit of thought, but if you asked me if I choose Garrett over Shurmur coming back...I go Garrett.
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I think we all agree that he shouldn't be the next coach of the Giants.
I am not agreeing to that.
I haven't given new alternatives one bit of thought, but if you asked me if I choose Garrett over Shurmur coming back...I go Garrett.
The "all" I was referencing was the "all" you were claiming he should lose his job.
No, not after Garrett has coached them.
:-)
Geez...maybe your right.
We could use a guy like Garrett to help us coach against their, albeit few, weaknesses...
and he’s still on a rookie contract - if they elect to pay him $35 mil against their annual cap... then he could become a coach killer
When you look up bad contracts and qb killers in the dictionary - Jared Goff says hi
Garrett is not a difference maker that could mold this team.
So we want him leading a roster with less talent?
And those two wins involved a bogus call that kept them alive against Detroit and a Seattle game that was somehow close late despite an overwhelming talent advantage for Dallas.
Hell no to Jason Garrett.
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In comment 14695360 Jimmy Googs said:r
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3 of the last 5 years and put up a very good winning %?
Were they supposed to win the superbowl in each of those years?
Winning this division, with as bad as the Skins and Giants have been isn’t some great achievement. No one thinks Garrett is terrible, but he certainly isn’t “very good”. He’s an average NFL head coach and I want more.
Would you be happy with what Garrett has done the last 9/10 years on the Giants? I wouldn’t. Look at McCarthy - that SB bought him a ton of time but he should have been axed years ago. Garrett doesn’t even have that.
I am not arguing he's great, nor winning the division once is either. But he has done it 3 of the past 5 years, and in the once in a blue moon years the Giants or Redskins played well.
Is it possible us Giant fans have overrated the Cowboys talent and underestimated what it takes to win there? Is it possible Garrett actually provides more than just what we think is conservative gameplans?
I tend to lean towards this line of thinking...the talent is there because the head coach created it...it didn’t just appear and Garrett keeps screwing it up and losing games.