I really hope to be wrong on this but he checks alot of our skewed boxes when it comes to a checklist with ownership:
1. Previous relationship and connection to the organization both as backup QB and QB coach. With that background, they will also probably think he would be good for Jones.
2. Graduated Princeton and is considered a very smart guy. Yeah the correlation to being a good coach and a smart guy isn't necessarily strong but we've seen them wax poetic about how MacAdoo was 'the smartest guy in the room'. They value this aspect.
3. Is of Irish decent. A whole nother story entirely but there is a history there of them favoring coaches with that background. Tom Quinn anyone? MacAdoo? I believe Shurmur is of Irish decent as well. Fassell? So many have spoke of the nepotism well it runs very deep in this organization with the way they like to operate. For better or worse, familiarity along with culture is big to them.
4. Is more of the 'yes' man and/or company guy who doesn't make waves with management. Giants also love those types and prefer them in their QBs as well as Head coaches.
This looks to be a very solid bet to me even if both Tomlin and Rivera were to spring loose. I really hope I am proven wrong but the patterns are there to sniff it out. He just checks too many things of what they look for.
He'll likely be a step up from Shurmur (which wouldn't be hard) and MacAdoo but likely a step down from Tomlin or Rivera. We better really hope for some amazing coordinators.
The Gaelic name used by the McAdoo family in ancient Ireland was Mac Conduibh. The first part of the name comes from the word con, which is the genitive form of cu, which means hound while the second part of the name is derived from the Gaelic word dubh, which means black.
Early Origins of the McAdoo family
The surname McAdoo was first found in County Mayo (Irish: Maigh Eo) located on the West coast of the Republic of Ireland in the province of Connacht, where they held a family seat.
Look at the pattern of coaches we hire. Doesn't mean its 100% but it sure looks more than other teams.
We can criticize Mara all we like (and some of it is deserved) but even McAdoo had proven to be a successful OC and Schurmur was assistant coach of the year coming off his time in Minnesota. Garret will be leading with a negative as he looks for a new job. A HC who had one of the most talented teams in the NFC and who couldn’t beat winning teams.
I generally agree with you on points 1&2. I think you are way off base with 3 and 4.
I do t want Garret at all. Ur Marinelli would be a huge huge upgrade over Betcher
We can criticize Mara all we like (and some of it is deserved) but even McAdoo had proven to be a successful OC and Schurmur was assistant coach of the year coming off his time in Minnesota. Garret will be leading with a negative as he looks for a new job. A HC who had one of the most talented teams in the NFC and who couldn’t beat winning teams.
I generally agree with you on points 1&2. I think you are way off base with 3 and 4.
Emil. Good post. I hope you are right. This is my take on what I see iver many years of watching how this team likes to operate. Unfortantely, I don't think the rumors of us being very interested from multiple sources including Rappaport who usually is very tuned in are false smoke.
Just like Jones seemed to check so many boxes and hence become our top overall pick, it just smells like Garrett to me. Hope they surprise us with someone better but we'll see.
However, he doesn’t make sense for us. We need a program builder, not a plug-in coach to win next year.
Matt Rhule or Josh McDaniels
Very believable.
However, he doesn’t make sense for us. We need a program builder, not a plug-in coach to win next year.
Matt Rhule or Josh McDaniels
The other reason I think he checks yet another box is he is a PROVEN NFL head coach. He has many years of positive NFL experience. They may have fallen short a few times but he has a winning record over multiple years. That is likely to strike a big chord with the Maras how have said many times its all about playing meaningful games in December. This is in stark contrast to the last 2 hires who had either limited or no experience as a HC (and in Shurmurs case a very bad record as a HC). I think they will be more risk averse with this hire and try to go with proven experience vs. a guy in the college ranks.
The checklist isn't an absolute end all be all. But just like in an interview, the more boxes you check the better your chances.
Do you trust this organization to make the right hire? We have had more bad coaches than good ones since Parcells and little Bill left the building.
Let's hope they aim higher though.
Let's hope they aim higher though.
Yes especially if Tomlin or Rivera spring free. If its Garrett they better have an all star staff behind him. Like Fassel when he had Peyton and Fox.
It's getting to the point it's hard to separate true needs and players preforming poorly because of the coaching. Hard to move forward consistently unless that is corrected. Garrett would do that much for the Giants. And just possibly could be the guy to return them all the way to championship form, although I have some real doubts about that.
I always think of how Ray Perkins doesn't get enough credit for helping to turn the organization from losing culture to winners. Sometimes you need that guy before you find your Parcells, not that I'm comparing him to Perkins in any way as a coach, but rather the teams circumstances and needs.
I'm still not convinced I would want him, but I'm not as opposed to the idea as I initially was. I would like to see this roster led by a competent staff and see where they go from there.
The thing is..the level if talent on that team is perennially overstated by two groups, the media, and for some reason Giants fans (especially BBI).
Through Garrett's tenure they have consistently had a good OL. Often they've had a competitive team, usually better than the Giants, beyond that the view of their roster talent is usually overinflated by about 50 percent.
The idea that Garrett held them back from the SuperBowl is a stupid fairy tale perpetuated by the Dallas obsessed media and Giants fans that like to build them up so our record against them doesn't seem so humiliating.
Garrett has beat us regular, and is lightyears beyond Shurmur.
It's getting to the point it's hard to separate true needs and players preforming poorly because of the coaching. Hard to move forward consistently unless that is corrected. Garrett would do that much for the Giants. And just possibly could be the guy to return them all the way to championship form, although I have some real doubts about that.
I always think of how Ray Perkins doesn't get enough credit for helping to turn the organization from losing culture to winners. Sometimes you need that guy before you find your Parcells, not that I'm comparing him to Perkins in any way as a coach, but rather the teams circumstances and needs.
I'm still not convinced I would want him, but I'm not as opposed to the idea as I initially was. I would like to see this roster led by a competent staff and see where they go from there.
When we hired Shurm there wasnt much to chose from. But if Tomlin and/or Rivera shake loose? One of those 2 would be a better and still NFL proven hire over Garrett.
What did Shurmur show in his past that is of a winner? he had one good year as a OC with Minny?
Garrett would look like an upgrade
The narrative that it is all coaching too is getting old. Players have to play and while Dallas has tons of talent the players have to make plays
Same here. We have some better execution and although we suck..we would have 2 more wins under our belt.
I would hope that the optics of a divisional rival who just fired their coach would not sit well with the Giants org and that we would look eleswhere.
I know some are tired of this "narrative" but Garrett's camp floated the Giants name for a reason.
Garrett's done nothing with a much better roster. What exactly can you say he brings? He actually brings LESS than Shurmer in some ways.
Garrett's another guy who isn't the ball-buster coach the team needs.
Quote:
Was leaked by his own camp to make Jones think twice.
Do you trust this organization to make the right hire? We have had more bad coaches than good ones since Parcells and little Bill left the building.
Why were the jagaloons so hell bent on asscanning Coughlin?
Garrett won't be fired, but he's still going to look like the Cowboys' reject. That's a problem too.
Also, aside from the difficulty of selling Garrett to the fanbase, the fact is, he hasn't won anything important in Dallas. They have underachieved. Also a problem.
We here on BBI tend to long for Bill Parcells, or a new Parcells. We tend to forget that Bill Arnsparger built the defense and then Ray Perkins turned things around, changed the culture, built a winner. We need our new Ray Perkins.
Pass.
Alex Webster - was a fullback for the Giants from 1955 - 1964. He became an assistant coach under Allie Sherman after he retired. He was promoted to head coach after the firing of Allie Sherman in 1969 after the preseason ended. He coached from 1969-1973.
John McVay - was an assistant coach under Bill Arnsparger and became head coach when Arnsparger was fired in 1976.
Bill Parcells - Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, and Romeo Crennel were all young assistants on the staff of Giant Head Coach Ray Perkins.
Ray Handley - was on the staff of Bill Parcells.
Jim Fassel - was quarterback coach and later offensive coordinator under Bill Parcells.
Tom Coughlin - was a wide receivers coach under Bill Parcells.
Steve Spagnuolo - was defensive coordinator under Tom Coughlin twice and stayed to do the same under Ben McAdoo.
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
Matt Rhule is a popular name here but I dont see the Giants taking that kind of risk after 2 unproven NFL coaches. Garrett has a winning record as a HC and they want to play meaningful games in December. The cowboys have played meaningful games in December most of Garretts tenure there. Setting the bar too low? Depends on who else is available. If Tomlin or Rivera spring loose its be potentially a big mistake to pass on them for Jason.
Just hope if it is Garrett we can get Turner and Marinelli. That combo could give us some hope here.
Quote:
Certain things about Garrett, coupled with the way our front office work, tell me he’ll more than likely get at least a look. He’s marginally better than Shurmur, so maybe we go 5-11 instead of 3-13...
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
Matt Rhule is a popular name here but I dont see the Giants taking that kind of risk after 2 unproven NFL coaches. Garrett has a winning record as a HC and they want to play meaningful games in December. The cowboys have played meaningful games in December most of Garretts tenure there. Setting the bar too low? Depends on who else is available. If Tomlin or Rivera spring loose its be potentially a big mistake to pass on them for Jason.
Just hope if it is Garrett we can get Turner and Marinelli. That combo could give us some hope here.
With all due respect, I politely disagree with your points on Garrett. While you look at things on the surface and see a coach with a decent record that has played some meaningful games, myself and a lot of other people here see a coach that has wildly underperformed with the rosters he’s been given to work with.
As much as we like to argue about who to coach the team, you never know how they’re going to be until they walk through the door, but with guys like Garrett and Shurmur you should have a lot of evidence of mediocrity (being polite to Shurmur) and nothing against it. I’d rather take the coach that has a track record of success at multiple college programs who also has worked with NFL players.
Just my view on it, I see you’re point of view and understand where you are coming from.
Quote:
In comment 14695505 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Certain things about Garrett, coupled with the way our front office work, tell me he’ll more than likely get at least a look. He’s marginally better than Shurmur, so maybe we go 5-11 instead of 3-13...
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
Matt Rhule is a popular name here but I dont see the Giants taking that kind of risk after 2 unproven NFL coaches. Garrett has a winning record as a HC and they want to play meaningful games in December. The cowboys have played meaningful games in December most of Garretts tenure there. Setting the bar too low? Depends on who else is available. If Tomlin or Rivera spring loose its be potentially a big mistake to pass on them for Jason.
Just hope if it is Garrett we can get Turner and Marinelli. That combo could give us some hope here.
With all due respect, I politely disagree with your points on Garrett. While you look at things on the surface and see a coach with a decent record that has played some meaningful games, myself and a lot of other people here see a coach that has wildly underperformed with the rosters he’s been given to work with.
As much as we like to argue about who to coach the team, you never know how they’re going to be until they walk through the door, but with guys like Garrett and Shurmur you should have a lot of evidence of mediocrity (being polite to Shurmur) and nothing against it. I’d rather take the coach that has a track record of success at multiple college programs who also has worked with NFL players.
Just my view on it, I see you’re point of view and understand where you are coming from.
Bitey Im lukewarm at best on Garrett. Hes a definite step up from Shurmur but Id rather go Rivera or Tomlin or somehow getting a big name college coach with proven NFL experience like Harbaugh or Saban. The last 2 are unlikely but I don't want a high risk/ high reward guy too much risk after 2 failures.
Quote:
In comment 14695515 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14695505 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Certain things about Garrett, coupled with the way our front office work, tell me he’ll more than likely get at least a look. He’s marginally better than Shurmur, so maybe we go 5-11 instead of 3-13...
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
Matt Rhule is a popular name here but I dont see the Giants taking that kind of risk after 2 unproven NFL coaches. Garrett has a winning record as a HC and they want to play meaningful games in December. The cowboys have played meaningful games in December most of Garretts tenure there. Setting the bar too low? Depends on who else is available. If Tomlin or Rivera spring loose its be potentially a big mistake to pass on them for Jason.
Just hope if it is Garrett we can get Turner and Marinelli. That combo could give us some hope here.
With all due respect, I politely disagree with your points on Garrett. While you look at things on the surface and see a coach with a decent record that has played some meaningful games, myself and a lot of other people here see a coach that has wildly underperformed with the rosters he’s been given to work with.
As much as we like to argue about who to coach the team, you never know how they’re going to be until they walk through the door, but with guys like Garrett and Shurmur you should have a lot of evidence of mediocrity (being polite to Shurmur) and nothing against it. I’d rather take the coach that has a track record of success at multiple college programs who also has worked with NFL players.
Just my view on it, I see you’re point of view and understand where you are coming from.
Bitey Im lukewarm at best on Garrett. Hes a definite step up from Shurmur but Id rather go Rivera or Tomlin or somehow getting a big name college coach with proven NFL experience like Harbaugh or Saban. The last 2 are unlikely but I don't want a high risk/ high reward guy too much risk after 2 failures.
I wouldn’t mine Tomlin or Rivera. Tomlin may get a pass due to Big Ben missing the season, but Rivera very well may be there for us.
Quote:
In comment 14695530 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14695515 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14695505 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Certain things about Garrett, coupled with the way our front office work, tell me he’ll more than likely get at least a look. He’s marginally better than Shurmur, so maybe we go 5-11 instead of 3-13...
If other posters are correct and the front office reads BBI then please hear me loud and clear “DON’T HIRE GARRETT!”
Matt Rhule has connections to the organization, hire him. Please!
Matt Rhule is a popular name here but I dont see the Giants taking that kind of risk after 2 unproven NFL coaches. Garrett has a winning record as a HC and they want to play meaningful games in December. The cowboys have played meaningful games in December most of Garretts tenure there. Setting the bar too low? Depends on who else is available. If Tomlin or Rivera spring loose its be potentially a big mistake to pass on them for Jason.
Just hope if it is Garrett we can get Turner and Marinelli. That combo could give us some hope here.
With all due respect, I politely disagree with your points on Garrett. While you look at things on the surface and see a coach with a decent record that has played some meaningful games, myself and a lot of other people here see a coach that has wildly underperformed with the rosters he’s been given to work with.
As much as we like to argue about who to coach the team, you never know how they’re going to be until they walk through the door, but with guys like Garrett and Shurmur you should have a lot of evidence of mediocrity (being polite to Shurmur) and nothing against it. I’d rather take the coach that has a track record of success at multiple college programs who also has worked with NFL players.
Just my view on it, I see you’re point of view and understand where you are coming from.
Bitey Im lukewarm at best on Garrett. Hes a definite step up from Shurmur but Id rather go Rivera or Tomlin or somehow getting a big name college coach with proven NFL experience like Harbaugh or Saban. The last 2 are unlikely but I don't want a high risk/ high reward guy too much risk after 2 failures.
I wouldn’t mine Tomlin or Rivera. Tomlin may get a pass due to Big Ben missing the season, but Rivera very well may be there for us.
Rivera with Norv would be a pretty good combo.
Quote:
carry on.
The Gaelic name used by the McAdoo family in ancient Ireland was Mac Conduibh. The first part of the name comes from the word con, which is the genitive form of cu, which means hound while the second part of the name is derived from the Gaelic word dubh, which means black.
Early Origins of the McAdoo family
The surname McAdoo was first found in County Mayo (Irish: Maigh Eo) located on the West coast of the Republic of Ireland in the province of Connacht, where they held a family seat.
Look at the pattern of coaches we hire. Doesn't mean its 100% but it sure looks more than other teams.
Holy fuck. Did you really just try to use a hybrid geneology/etymology breakdown to try and support a bullshit assertion that the Giants tend to gravitate toward Irish coaches.
Did I really just read that??
He's had TWO playoff wins in 9 years of coaching and only made the post season three times.
I would LOVE to have Tomlin but could not imagine he comes free - The guy has a winning record after losing all three triplets - Bell, Brown and Ben - amazing.
Bwahhahaa! I came here to post exactly that.