in this cesspool of a season, I've retained a measure of optimism – latching onto signs of progress (Hey! Jones throws 4 TDs! The O-line gave up just one sack! The defense gets a takeaway and a couple sacks!). Not long after last week's game, even I couldn't do it anymore. And I'm an eternal optimist...well, I used to be.
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
in this cesspool of a season, I've retained a measure of optimism – latching onto signs of progress (Hey! Jones throws 4 TDs! The O-line gave up just one sack! The defense gets a takeaway and a couple sacks!). Not long after last week's game, even I couldn't do it anymore. And I'm an eternal optimist...well, I used to be.
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
There have been horrific seasons in the past couple of decades but there were things to get excited about... the defense, or the development of some offensive player.
Even with a bad win-loss record, we SHOULD be looking forward to these games just to see Jones and Barkley. But I don't think any of us are. It's weird. My guess is it because everyone feels like we aren't improving and we're just treading water.
about at least seeing Barkley run the ball. Bad OL and all, he was electric and it seemed like there was a chance he'd do something spectacular or even take it to the house every time he touched the ball.
With the team being as bad as it is, Barkley's play falling back to earth has really sucked the life out of the game for me this year.
I also thought that I'd be interested in watching Dexter Lawrence and, maybe, Jabril Peppers, play defense this year. But I'm not.
dark now, but it's going to get black hole dark, starting Sunday. The Packers have very good pass rushers, and of course Rodgers.
Washington and Miami are the only two teams we might beat, and I'm beginning to suspect we'll lose both of those games, and finish the season 2-14, losing 12 straight to end the season. Miami is playing hard, and Washington is an away game. Even if we win both games, we'll only finish 4-12.
The simple truth is that we could be winless. TB missed a very short field goal to win. Keenum also missed two wide open receivers for TDs.
of the last few years have been losses, they haven't really been beat downs. since 2016, outside of the october 2018 game, they were all one-score games.
but if mara was arrogant about the giants two superbowl wins in 5 years (why did it take us so long to find out jerrell jernigan can play? and other such smartest guy in the room comments), there's absolutely no way he can be now.
who would have thought shurmur would be this much worse than mcadoo. jfc.
2-4 but had just played 2 of the better teams in the league without any weapons and now we had a west coast team coming in for a 1pm game, we had a few extra days to prepare against an opponent of equal or lesser quality than us.
That game was when the “we are building toward something” narrative went out the window.
in this cesspool of a season, I've retained a measure of optimism – latching onto signs of progress (Hey! Jones throws 4 TDs! The O-line gave up just one sack! The defense gets a takeaway and a couple sacks!). Not long after last week's game, even I couldn't do it anymore. And I'm an eternal optimist...well, I used to be.
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
There have been horrific seasons in the past couple of decades but there were things to get excited about... the defense, or the development of some offensive player.
Even with a bad win-loss record, we SHOULD be looking forward to these games just to see Jones and Barkley. But I don't think any of us are. It's weird. My guess is it because everyone feels like we aren't improving and we're just treading water.
Even worse, maybe even regressing. It's just failure fatigue. We're all only human. I guess we can empathize with older Browns fans. They were a top team in the Jim Brown era through the 70s, then hot and cold before their long run of futility.
For older Giants fans, in their 70s and 80s, this has to be even worse. They went from seeing the Giants go from an annual contender to an annual loser, the contending years of the mid 80s-90, the rebuild, the roller coaster of the Coughlin years and now...whatever this is.
And that's one reason I was so pissed at the 2017-2018 seasons because I had a feeling one of those would be the last my dad, past 80 by then, would see. And I was right. I hope BBIers who are around the age he was get to see a winning Giants team again before their number is up.
If there was a sense that things were improving, even with losses, we'd be more excited.
There were two times during BBI that I felt THIS pessimistic. One was the second-half of the 2006 season (when we actually made the playoffs) and this season. The issue in 2006 was a series of colossal meltdowns took their toll on me.
Ownership is overly loyal to 'their' people. Whether it be Reese, Eli, Gettleman, etc... The situation we are in now finds Mara having recently fired a 2 x SB champion coach and laying blame on him. While it was time for Coughlin to go, keeping Reese was the disaster. McAdoo was another disaster. While Gettleman has seemingly done a better job (I know that is way debatable) the concern is that I can't possibly ever seeing Mara fire two GMs in two years. And DG hired Shurmur because he was 'an adult'. Where is the hope? DG finding a new HC? DG taking another 3 - 5 years to overhaul this roster? Simply...Im not sure DG is the right GM and Mara is overly loyal. I think we're a dead rat stuck in a glue trap.
Some of us actually watched most of those games
From some of the first games I remember watching was
against these very same Packers that humiliated us 37-0
So I hated Paul Hornung and Pack . Then we lost the
Championship game to the again 16-7 Then We lost a third
straight Tittle game to the Bears The aging Giants started
falling apart the Good bye Allie chants were loud and
clear in 1965 was a bit of a fun year an aging Earl Morral
at QB and a WR named Homer Jones acquired by trade
was similar to the drafting of OBJ at 6'2" 220 lbs
if he got by you it was over . You just kept hoping
he would catch a Bomb Old Earl was eventually replaced
By Fran Tarkington who made Giants football fun again
To think about the 30 year long drought to 1986 that
Ended in spectacular fashion . As bad as things are now
Were the fucking NY Giants and we will get this thing
turned around some of the Giant teams i've watched
didn't have near the talent this team does
lets see how it plays out and cross our
collective fingers for Chase Young he can change the
Defense into a top ten or better with some another
strong draft and the right free agents meanwhile
fellow fairweather Giant fans this division is not
all that great right now we can be right back into
the thick of it next season !
Methinks you might feel differently after the Eagles get done with us. (Twice)
Methinks you may be right but were the kind of clowns
that will luck one out and win one and Lord know
they better not drop a spot in he draft Methinks
Young changes the face of this team move up
for him like we did Eli !
I Never Thought I Would Ever Write The Following: Â
I have become far more interested in college football than the NFL and dare I say, the Giants.
There was no other team in any other sport that I loved more than the Giants; NOTHING came close. I lived and died with every win and loss. Even through the 90's rebuild, I looked forward to every season with great anticipation. Even those seasons when I knew the team would not be very good. The Handley, Reeves, Fassel years could not deter me. Yes there were a few good years in there, but mostly they sucked. But it didn't matter.
Then Coughlin and Eli came along and for the first 8 years, the Giants won more than they lost and there were 2 more Super Bowl Championships!
And then the bottom fell out and the Giants and we as fans are stuck in what I feel will be a never ending free fall. It seems that no matter what ownership or the front office tries, it fails. And does anyone not think the Giants will miss out on Chase Young by 1 pick? That is the fatalistic mindset I now have. Candidly, I would rather play golf and listen to the radio stream than watch this garbage. And when I do watch, all I repeat over and over again is "God they fucking suck".
Packers and Rogers are going to "get right" this game Â
Jawn and Tisch are not arrogant. They listened to the wrong people, drew the wrong conclusions and made bad decision after bad decision. There have been zero signs that any of that has changed.
And all you wise men who wanted to blow it all up and said it couldn't get any worse, you are finding out that yes it could get worse and it did get worse.
This season has been so awful. We can’t even get our limited weapons on the field at the same time. Have we had Shep, Tate, EE and SB on the field together for any games? Tate missed 4, then SB hurt, then SS concussion, EE injury, then Tate injury. It’s just incredible.
Early in the year we scored on opening drives, then went dormant on O. Then it was fail to score while going down 14 within 2 drives.
Meanwhile, we cannot go 1 game without a DJ fumble. I like the kid, and they’re not all his fault, but ffs one game?!!
Then as games approach the end one of two things happens: we can’t get a stop on D, or option B, we do somehow but the OL comes out and gets shredded for an embarrassing stillbirth of a drive with DJ under an avalanche of rushers.
Our running game went from exciting -SB could break any carry - to depressing - SB could lose 5 on any carry.
The OL remains a mystery of anti-synergy with the whole being worse than a sum of the parts
The D backfield is a morass if blown coverages, badly timed penalties, and missed tackles. And the LB play since Connelly went down has been an occasional flash amidst a sea of poor play.
And lately our K game is atrocious, so we have that going for us.
Our punting And punt coverage have been ok, so yay!
The Fassel lead teams from 1997 to 2003 are more fun to watch then this Pat Shurmur lead team. Fassel at least out his chips to the middle of the table
The Fassel lead teams from 1997 to 2003 are more fun to watch then this Pat Shurmur lead team. Fassel at least out his chips to the middle of the table
Mara and DG's silence has been deafening . When McAdoo was sinking in 2017 he got a sort of vote of confidence from Mara, even though he was later shit-canned. Resse gave a press conference in which he pretended to be on it. This year ? not a word. It tells me that the decision has been made that DG, Shurmur and Bettcher are out the door at the end of this year and DG knows it. Next year they'll bring in a GM that doesn't have one foot in the grave and an HC with NFL coaching experience. They'll also have lots of cap room and high draft pick. I have absolutely no confidence that they'll pick the right people, but there should be some improvement.
Green Bay poses a tough test (most opponents do to the Giants) and Rodgers continues to do his thing. He is still short of that magical 50,000 yard career passing mark in which some BBIers say you must have to be considered elite, but lets hope he doesn't get it all tomorrow.
With Davante Adams back on the field now and Aaron Jones who can do it all, these two targets alone should provide more than enough problems for our linebackers and secondary. The one saving grace is Aaron Jones is on my fantasy team so there's that...
The Green Bay defense gives up plenty of yards in the passing game each week, and they got their head handed to them by San Fran last week as well. Right tackle Bulaga is banged up but seemingly will play.
Can Gettleman's crown jewels Barkley and Jones take advantage of a porous GB defense? They better because its tough to imagine Rodgers isn't going to carve up our secondary if chucklehead QBs like Trubisky can do it.
Prediction with my Giant glasses on:
NYG 29
GB 27
With them off:
NYG 17
GB 38
RE: I can not disagree with Eric, things will feel worse but Â
Eli first year was painful. This team is young, very young gaining great experience.
They can not absorb mistakes....
These coaches are providing too many errors.
The special teams can not miss opportunities to get points....
The defense is never on same page.
OL was not fixed.
But in 2004, I think many of us saw glimpses of hope:
Tiki Barber
Amani Toomer
Jeremy Shockey
David Diehl
Shaun O'Hara
Rich Seubert
Chris Snee
Michael Strahan
Osi Umenyiora
Fred Robbins
Will Allen
Will Peterson
I suppose things can change in the last five games. If we go 3-2 or 4-1, the picture changes. I just don't FEEL it.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
These are the names that give me hope, but I'm sick of it all (further sign of this HC being TOXIC). The players are as follows:
1 - Daniel Jones
2 - Saquon Barkley
3 - Will Hernandez
4 - Darius Slayton
5 - Dexter Lawrence
Some others make me curious about their abilities, but not hopeful as much as the aforementioned players:
1 - Ryan Connelly
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson
3 - B.J. Hill
4 - Leonard Williams
5 - Sam Beal
6 - Oshane Ximines
7 - Julian Love
The Giants better stop throwing away draft picks (3rd and 4th rounders on backups who got cut after a year) and in trades (Leonard Williams) as well as the Supplemental draft (Sam Beal) and player trades (Ogletree). Shurm has to be gone after this year, but Gettleman is also on thin ice.
These are the names that give me hope, but I'm sick of it all (further sign of this HC being TOXIC). The players are as follows:
1 - Daniel Jones
2 - Saquon Barkley
3 - Will Hernandez
4 - Darius Slayton
5 - Dexter Lawrence
Some others make me curious about their abilities, but not hopeful as much as the aforementioned players:
1 - Ryan Connelly
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson
3 - B.J. Hill
4 - Leonard Williams
5 - Sam Beal
6 - Oshane Ximines
7 - Julian Love
The Giants better stop throwing away draft picks (3rd and 4th rounders on backups who got cut after a year) and in trades (Leonard Williams) as well as the Supplemental draft (Sam Beal) and player trades (Ogletree). Shurm has to be gone after this year, but Gettleman is also on thin ice.
I think Shurmur and Gettleman need to be tied at the hip. If you are keeping one...might as will keep them both. Gettleman is a short termer no matter how you look at it. A new GM is gonna want his own guys....so if you are ditching Shurmur...might as well push Gettleman out and start over.
That said I think they are both coming back. This was always going to be a lost season and they will get one more year to pull it together.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
RE: RE: I can not disagree with Eric, things will feel worse but Â
Eli first year was painful. This team is young, very young gaining great experience.
They can not absorb mistakes....
These coaches are providing too many errors.
The special teams can not miss opportunities to get points....
The defense is never on same page.
OL was not fixed.
But in 2004, I think many of us saw glimpses of hope:
Tiki Barber
Amani Toomer
Jeremy Shockey
David Diehl
Shaun O'Hara
Rich Seubert
Chris Snee
Michael Strahan
Osi Umenyiora
Fred Robbins
Will Allen
Will Peterson
I suppose things can change in the last five games. If we go 3-2 or 4-1, the picture changes. I just don't FEEL it.
and a HC who had already taken teams to two conference championship games, not a career loser.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
There are no trophies for "most money saved against the cap." This makes the Dave strategy of offing every vet strange since the best single use of cap money is to extend your won players. Who are we going to be extending? Besides, there isn't that kind of dough available since Williams is going to be getting a chunk of it.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
No but they can improve the roster with the extra cap dollars they have. Use the draft to acquire OL and LB talent if they can. Solder is a massive disappointment who seems to always be hobbled. But he, Hernandez and Zielter will probably be back next year. The Giants gotta get a C and T this offseason likely via the draft. And then figure out how to make it work. Not sure Shurmur's guys are up for that.
But this team is starting to take on the feel the Islanders had for a long time. No, the Giants owners are not cheap. But it feels like winning is not the primary goal. With the Giants it is not cheapness, but clinging to the idea of running the franchise the way it has always been run. Promote from within, act like a family, and just keeping expecting things to get better. It’s a nice Disney sports movie, but it doesn’t work in reality.
DG will stay and the narrative will be that the right pieces are in place and Shurmur just did a poor job. Another draft and free agency moves will make it better, despite the fact that DG has shown no track record over two years with the Giants of being able to fill holes through free agency.
There is something systemically wrong with the team beyond the coach. Unlike the Islanders, the team won’t be sold to owners committed to winning. So we have to hope they simply make better hiring choices, which is more crapshoot than plan since they artificially limit who can represent the Giants franchise.
So sit back, wait for the funny looking uniforms, and for Alex Tanney to be named our new GM.
No way we win here unless we get fortunate turnovers and special teams play. Very fortunate.
I just don't get how we could be this bad in a bad division. It is pitiful.
But we do have our QB of the future and that is key. D. Jones can play in this league and he just needs to learn how to read zone defenses as I understand it. I think he has all the ability in the world to be standout. I base any hope on him for next year.
I would not be shocked if DG overhauls the entire coaching staff though. Not shocked at all.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Its a good point but one many on here do not fail to take into account. This season was doomed to be a failure by the actions/inactions taken 1.5 years ago.
As to Shurmur being hamstrung...I am not certain how much he would know what to do with a good roster anyway.
But this team is starting to take on the feel the Islanders had for a long time. No, the Giants owners are not cheap. But it feels like winning is not the primary goal. With the Giants it is not cheapness, but clinging to the idea of running the franchise the way it has always been run. Promote from within, act like a family, and just keeping expecting things to get better. It’s a nice Disney sports movie, but it doesn’t work in reality.
DG will stay and the narrative will be that the right pieces are in place and Shurmur just did a poor job. Another draft and free agency moves will make it better, despite the fact that DG has shown no track record over two years with the Giants of being able to fill holes through free agency.
There is something systemically wrong with the team beyond the coach. Unlike the Islanders, the team won’t be sold to owners committed to winning. So we have to hope they simply make better hiring choices, which is more crapshoot than plan since they artificially limit who can represent the Giants franchise.
So sit back, wait for the funny looking uniforms, and for Alex Tanney to be named our new GM.
I don't see how they sell that narrative. The Giants are losing because they have bad players, particularly on defense. Who's responsible for bringing in these players ? The GM. Who hired this awful DC ? The GM. They're not going to be able to sell that its all Shurmur's fault . The reason they brought in a 70 year old GM was to get a few missing pieces so that they could have one last run for Eli. That illusion is dead. Mara and Tisch aren't stupid. Aside from a few promising skill players on offense , Its obvious to everyone that this whole roster needs to be overhauled. This whole coaching staff needs to be overhauled.
In my previous post I said that DG and Mara's silence is deafening . Perhaps I didn't explain that. What I meant was that usually when a team is this bad the GM and/or the owner will give an interview or a press conference and try and spread some optimism. "Where moving in the right direction", "We have promising young players to build around", "We have faith in our coaches".
None of that is happening. DG and Mara are hiding under their desks. Shurmur is marched out like a human sacrifice after yet another Giant loss to spout off the same platitudes. He know's he's a dead man walking.
Personally, I think Mara has enough personal integrity that he wants to put a winning product on the field even if he has failed miserably in recent years. In that way he's different than the ass clowns that run the Jets. Like any business owner he'd rather work with people he's familiar with. Like some owners he's overly loyal to his coaches and his veteran players. But he's not blind and he's not going to stick his head in the sand. He acted decisively to axe McAdoo because he was not only a bad coach, he was disruptive and destructive. Much to my suprise he axed Reese too, admitting he was part of the problem.
My best guess is that at the end of this season it will be announced that DG is "retiring". In order to give the new GM a clean slate, Shurmur and his staff will not be retained.
Which is way Getty and Murmur have delivered such a pathetic product. Getty is erratic and irrational and obstinate. Murmur is milquetoast, uninspiring and seems to zero imagination as a coach. Why did Mara Tisch think these were the guys to build a good football team?
It’s time to blow it all up, new scouts, new equipment managers, new coach’s and GM and everything. 10 wins in 3 seasons? Pathetic.
First, not all is hopeless. Possible have franchise QB & RB. Have a promising young wr too.
Really like this DL and think they have a lot of young talent in the secondary.
Real problem with this team is the dearth of talent at LB. Most productive player is a player creeping up on 30, coming off a torn acl. But he's ballin. One of our most promising players was a 5th round rookie who wound up on IR. Carter is developing slower than we would like and may not ever justidy 3rd round pick. XMan - don't know what we have here. Buchanan - belongs on the field, can be productive but not a main piece of the puzzle.
The other critical issue is the OL - Zietler and Hernandez are the core of a rebuilding unit. Perhaps, the toughest part of off season will be finding two quality starting tackles. Finding one is a heavy lift - two is a herculean feat.
But, they are competing. Played Cowboys tough for most of the game. same-same Bears, who were 12-4 last year. Fans really lost their shit after Cards loss - but they were two years removed from playoffs. Jets loss - can't drink that one pretty.
We're playing with the most rookie minutes of any other team, very very young team.
Everyone is clamoring for a new coach - I'm not an expert, but not arguing against it. Just don't know. Still think Bettcher is a good DC - just needs better LB crew. Wonder if Hunter is problem is the talent the problem or both (my guess is both).
Going to watch GB game and watch the rookies learn and see which veterans justify their contracts. Offense is going to have to step up for them to have any chance.
Things aren't good. But youngsters are learning and they are aquiring more talent. But, there are still more growing pains to come.
Off season = would try to get Jenkins to take cut, has been one of our best in secondary. I'd try and sign Williams and Tomlinson. I'd shop Engram - might get a 2nd or 3rd.
Look at how much shit he took for Jones pick at # 6. He was right, just about everyone else was wrong
Some hits, some misses but he inherited a good sized mess, including a lousy scouting and personnel department which is a good part of the current state of affairs.
RE: the Shurmur milquetoast, rorschack bullshit. Only issue is whether he can fix the Xs and Os. Many people on this site opine on leadership, and just like the Xs and Os, maybe only a handful on the site who know what the fuck they're talking about.
Scratching my head - trying to reconcile end of last season and what has gone on this year. During that time, the offense was definitely playing fairly well and a lot of those games Beckham was out.
Lot of factors to consider = pre-snap reads for example
First, not all is hopeless. Possible have franchise QB & RB. Have a promising young wr too.
Really like this DL and think they have a lot of young talent in the secondary.
Real problem with this team is the dearth of talent at LB. Most productive player is a player creeping up on 30, coming off a torn acl. But he's ballin. One of our most promising players was a 5th round rookie who wound up on IR. Carter is developing slower than we would like and may not ever justidy 3rd round pick. XMan - don't know what we have here. Buchanan - belongs on the field, can be productive but not a main piece of the puzzle.
The other critical issue is the OL - Zietler and Hernandez are the core of a rebuilding unit. Perhaps, the toughest part of off season will be finding two quality starting tackles. Finding one is a heavy lift - two is a herculean feat.
But, they are competing. Played Cowboys tough for most of the game. same-same Bears, who were 12-4 last year. Fans really lost their shit after Cards loss - but they were two years removed from playoffs. Jets loss - can't drink that one pretty.
We're playing with the most rookie minutes of any other team, very very young team.
Everyone is clamoring for a new coach - I'm not an expert, but not arguing against it. Just don't know. Still think Bettcher is a good DC - just needs better LB crew. Wonder if Hunter is problem is the talent the problem or both (my guess is both).
Going to watch GB game and watch the rookies learn and see which veterans justify their contracts. Offense is going to have to step up for them to have any chance.
Things aren't good. But youngsters are learning and they are aquiring more talent. But, there are still more growing pains to come.
Off season = would try to get Jenkins to take cut, has been one of our best in secondary. I'd try and sign Williams and Tomlinson. I'd shop Engram - might get a 2nd or 3rd.
Solder should be moved to RT....and....hopefully he will ake a pay cut knowing he has not lived up to his salary. Cutting him may not be worthy unless we draft the one good LT in round one, and we pick so early that I am not sure he is worthy. Unless we trade down.
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Shurmur and his staff own the roster as much as the FO.
Everyone wants to shit on DG but the coaching staff had a say in those moves. Bethea, Martin, Remmers, Golden, etc have Shurmur/Bechter’s fingers all over those moves. Then there was the report DG wanted to move Beckham a year prior but Shurmur went to bat for Beckham.
Ultimately it all falls on DG but Shurmur and co aren’t innocent victims in this debacle. If the roster is “undermanned” it’s at least in part due do to the guys they pushed for who aren’t worth a shit.
RE: I'd be careful writing off Gettleman just yet Â
Look at how much shit he took for Jones pick at # 6. He was right, just about everyone else was wrong
Some hits, some misses but he inherited a good sized mess, including a lousy scouting and personnel department which is a good part of the current state of affairs.
RE: the Shurmur milquetoast, rorschack bullshit. Only issue is whether he can fix the Xs and Os. Many people on this site opine on leadership, and just like the Xs and Os, maybe only a handful on the site who know what the fuck they're talking about.
If I'm mistaken, hasn't Gettleman maintained nearly all of the scouting staff?
he did more than that. most significant was the VP of personnel - guy he worked with in Carolina. also had scouts designated for a specific region of the country. made some promotions - can't replace everybody
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
There have been horrific seasons in the past couple of decades but there were things to get excited about... the defense, or the development of some offensive player.
Even with a bad win-loss record, we SHOULD be looking forward to these games just to see Jones and Barkley. But I don't think any of us are. It's weird. My guess is it because everyone feels like we aren't improving and we're just treading water.
With the team being as bad as it is, Barkley's play falling back to earth has really sucked the life out of the game for me this year.
I also thought that I'd be interested in watching Dexter Lawrence and, maybe, Jabril Peppers, play defense this year. But I'm not.
Washington and Miami are the only two teams we might beat, and I'm beginning to suspect we'll lose both of those games, and finish the season 2-14, losing 12 straight to end the season. Miami is playing hard, and Washington is an away game. Even if we win both games, we'll only finish 4-12.
The simple truth is that we could be winless. TB missed a very short field goal to win. Keenum also missed two wide open receivers for TDs.
but if mara was arrogant about the giants two superbowl wins in 5 years (why did it take us so long to find out jerrell jernigan can play? and other such smartest guy in the room comments), there's absolutely no way he can be now.
who would have thought shurmur would be this much worse than mcadoo. jfc.
2-4 but had just played 2 of the better teams in the league without any weapons and now we had a west coast team coming in for a 1pm game, we had a few extra days to prepare against an opponent of equal or lesser quality than us.
That game was when the “we are building toward something” narrative went out the window.
Quote:
in this cesspool of a season, I've retained a measure of optimism – latching onto signs of progress (Hey! Jones throws 4 TDs! The O-line gave up just one sack! The defense gets a takeaway and a couple sacks!). Not long after last week's game, even I couldn't do it anymore. And I'm an eternal optimist...well, I used to be.
What Eric said about watching the Giants becoming a "chore" is spot on. And so pathetically sad for us. I'll watch this public execution, err, football game, Sunday. Because I'm still a fan no matter what, but it sure won't be easy.
And how fucked up is that for a lifelong fan nearing the age of 60 to feel? I know I'm not alone. I guess as much fun as it is to be on BBI when the team is winning (and will be again - someday), we need it more than ever during times like this.
There have been horrific seasons in the past couple of decades but there were things to get excited about... the defense, or the development of some offensive player.
Even with a bad win-loss record, we SHOULD be looking forward to these games just to see Jones and Barkley. But I don't think any of us are. It's weird. My guess is it because everyone feels like we aren't improving and we're just treading water.
Even worse, maybe even regressing. It's just failure fatigue. We're all only human. I guess we can empathize with older Browns fans. They were a top team in the Jim Brown era through the 70s, then hot and cold before their long run of futility.
For older Giants fans, in their 70s and 80s, this has to be even worse. They went from seeing the Giants go from an annual contender to an annual loser, the contending years of the mid 80s-90, the rebuild, the roller coaster of the Coughlin years and now...whatever this is.
And that's one reason I was so pissed at the 2017-2018 seasons because I had a feeling one of those would be the last my dad, past 80 by then, would see. And I was right. I hope BBIers who are around the age he was get to see a winning Giants team again before their number is up.
If there was a sense that things were improving, even with losses, we'd be more excited.
There were two times during BBI that I felt THIS pessimistic. One was the second-half of the 2006 season (when we actually made the playoffs) and this season. The issue in 2006 was a series of colossal meltdowns took their toll on me.
From some of the first games I remember watching was
against these very same Packers that humiliated us 37-0
So I hated Paul Hornung and Pack . Then we lost the
Championship game to the again 16-7 Then We lost a third
straight Tittle game to the Bears The aging Giants started
falling apart the Good bye Allie chants were loud and
clear in 1965 was a bit of a fun year an aging Earl Morral
at QB and a WR named Homer Jones acquired by trade
was similar to the drafting of OBJ at 6'2" 220 lbs
if he got by you it was over . You just kept hoping
he would catch a Bomb Old Earl was eventually replaced
By Fran Tarkington who made Giants football fun again
To think about the 30 year long drought to 1986 that
Ended in spectacular fashion . As bad as things are now
Were the fucking NY Giants and we will get this thing
turned around some of the Giant teams i've watched
didn't have near the talent this team does
lets see how it plays out and cross our
collective fingers for Chase Young he can change the
Defense into a top ten or better with some another
strong draft and the right free agents meanwhile
fellow fairweather Giant fans this division is not
all that great right now we can be right back into
the thick of it next season !
Methinks you may be right but were the kind of clowns
that will luck one out and win one and Lord know
they better not drop a spot in he draft Methinks
Young changes the face of this team move up
for him like we did Eli !
There was no other team in any other sport that I loved more than the Giants; NOTHING came close. I lived and died with every win and loss. Even through the 90's rebuild, I looked forward to every season with great anticipation. Even those seasons when I knew the team would not be very good. The Handley, Reeves, Fassel years could not deter me. Yes there were a few good years in there, but mostly they sucked. But it didn't matter.
Then Coughlin and Eli came along and for the first 8 years, the Giants won more than they lost and there were 2 more Super Bowl Championships!
And then the bottom fell out and the Giants and we as fans are stuck in what I feel will be a never ending free fall. It seems that no matter what ownership or the front office tries, it fails. And does anyone not think the Giants will miss out on Chase Young by 1 pick? That is the fatalistic mindset I now have. Candidly, I would rather play golf and listen to the radio stream than watch this garbage. And when I do watch, all I repeat over and over again is "God they fucking suck".
And likely for many years now
Jawn and Tisch are not arrogant. They listened to the wrong people, drew the wrong conclusions and made bad decision after bad decision. There have been zero signs that any of that has changed.
And all you wise men who wanted to blow it all up and said it couldn't get any worse, you are finding out that yes it could get worse and it did get worse.
Early in the year we scored on opening drives, then went dormant on O. Then it was fail to score while going down 14 within 2 drives.
Meanwhile, we cannot go 1 game without a DJ fumble. I like the kid, and they’re not all his fault, but ffs one game?!!
Then as games approach the end one of two things happens: we can’t get a stop on D, or option B, we do somehow but the OL comes out and gets shredded for an embarrassing stillbirth of a drive with DJ under an avalanche of rushers.
Our running game went from exciting -SB could break any carry - to depressing - SB could lose 5 on any carry.
The OL remains a mystery of anti-synergy with the whole being worse than a sum of the parts
The D backfield is a morass if blown coverages, badly timed penalties, and missed tackles. And the LB play since Connelly went down has been an occasional flash amidst a sea of poor play.
And lately our K game is atrocious, so we have that going for us.
Our punting And punt coverage have been ok, so yay!
They can not absorb mistakes....
These coaches are providing too many errors.
The special teams can not miss opportunities to get points....
The defense is never on same page.
OL was not fixed.
Green Bay poses a tough test (most opponents do to the Giants) and Rodgers continues to do his thing. He is still short of that magical 50,000 yard career passing mark in which some BBIers say you must have to be considered elite, but lets hope he doesn't get it all tomorrow.
With Davante Adams back on the field now and Aaron Jones who can do it all, these two targets alone should provide more than enough problems for our linebackers and secondary. The one saving grace is Aaron Jones is on my fantasy team so there's that...
The Green Bay defense gives up plenty of yards in the passing game each week, and they got their head handed to them by San Fran last week as well. Right tackle Bulaga is banged up but seemingly will play.
Can Gettleman's crown jewels Barkley and Jones take advantage of a porous GB defense? They better because its tough to imagine Rodgers isn't going to carve up our secondary if chucklehead QBs like Trubisky can do it.
Prediction with my Giant glasses on:
NYG 29
GB 27
With them off:
NYG 17
GB 38
They can not absorb mistakes....
These coaches are providing too many errors.
The special teams can not miss opportunities to get points....
The defense is never on same page.
OL was not fixed.
But in 2004, I think many of us saw glimpses of hope:
Tiki Barber
Amani Toomer
Jeremy Shockey
David Diehl
Shaun O'Hara
Rich Seubert
Chris Snee
Michael Strahan
Osi Umenyiora
Fred Robbins
Will Allen
Will Peterson
I suppose things can change in the last five games. If we go 3-2 or 4-1, the picture changes. I just don't FEEL it.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
1 - Daniel Jones
2 - Saquon Barkley
3 - Will Hernandez
4 - Darius Slayton
5 - Dexter Lawrence
Some others make me curious about their abilities, but not hopeful as much as the aforementioned players:
1 - Ryan Connelly
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson
3 - B.J. Hill
4 - Leonard Williams
5 - Sam Beal
6 - Oshane Ximines
7 - Julian Love
The Giants better stop throwing away draft picks (3rd and 4th rounders on backups who got cut after a year) and in trades (Leonard Williams) as well as the Supplemental draft (Sam Beal) and player trades (Ogletree). Shurm has to be gone after this year, but Gettleman is also on thin ice.
1 - Daniel Jones
2 - Saquon Barkley
3 - Will Hernandez
4 - Darius Slayton
5 - Dexter Lawrence
Some others make me curious about their abilities, but not hopeful as much as the aforementioned players:
1 - Ryan Connelly
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson
3 - B.J. Hill
4 - Leonard Williams
5 - Sam Beal
6 - Oshane Ximines
7 - Julian Love
The Giants better stop throwing away draft picks (3rd and 4th rounders on backups who got cut after a year) and in trades (Leonard Williams) as well as the Supplemental draft (Sam Beal) and player trades (Ogletree). Shurm has to be gone after this year, but Gettleman is also on thin ice.
I think Shurmur and Gettleman need to be tied at the hip. If you are keeping one...might as will keep them both. Gettleman is a short termer no matter how you look at it. A new GM is gonna want his own guys....so if you are ditching Shurmur...might as well push Gettleman out and start over.
That said I think they are both coming back. This was always going to be a lost season and they will get one more year to pull it together.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
Quote:
Eli first year was painful. This team is young, very young gaining great experience.
They can not absorb mistakes....
These coaches are providing too many errors.
The special teams can not miss opportunities to get points....
The defense is never on same page.
OL was not fixed.
But in 2004, I think many of us saw glimpses of hope:
Tiki Barber
Amani Toomer
Jeremy Shockey
David Diehl
Shaun O'Hara
Rich Seubert
Chris Snee
Michael Strahan
Osi Umenyiora
Fred Robbins
Will Allen
Will Peterson
I suppose things can change in the last five games. If we go 3-2 or 4-1, the picture changes. I just don't FEEL it.
Quote:
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
Quote:
The Giants have $41M in dead money against the cap this year. The top six players on the roster take up another $76M (Eli is getting 23M to sit on the bench). That leaves another $80M give or take to fill out the remaining roster spots. You can RIGHTLY bitch about coaching and poor management. But the Giants had very little cap room to work with this past off season.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Giants won't be able to turn this around with free agents. The market is always pretty sparse now with the top guys getting dramatically overpaid. Remember "the prize" being Nate Solder?
No but they can improve the roster with the extra cap dollars they have. Use the draft to acquire OL and LB talent if they can. Solder is a massive disappointment who seems to always be hobbled. But he, Hernandez and Zielter will probably be back next year. The Giants gotta get a C and T this offseason likely via the draft. And then figure out how to make it work. Not sure Shurmur's guys are up for that.
DG will stay and the narrative will be that the right pieces are in place and Shurmur just did a poor job. Another draft and free agency moves will make it better, despite the fact that DG has shown no track record over two years with the Giants of being able to fill holes through free agency.
There is something systemically wrong with the team beyond the coach. Unlike the Islanders, the team won’t be sold to owners committed to winning. So we have to hope they simply make better hiring choices, which is more crapshoot than plan since they artificially limit who can represent the Giants franchise.
So sit back, wait for the funny looking uniforms, and for Alex Tanney to be named our new GM.
I just don't get how we could be this bad in a bad division. It is pitiful.
But we do have our QB of the future and that is key. D. Jones can play in this league and he just needs to learn how to read zone defenses as I understand it. I think he has all the ability in the world to be standout. I base any hope on him for next year.
I would not be shocked if DG overhauls the entire coaching staff though. Not shocked at all.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Its a good point but one many on here do not fail to take into account. This season was doomed to be a failure by the actions/inactions taken 1.5 years ago.
As to Shurmur being hamstrung...I am not certain how much he would know what to do with a good roster anyway.
like sands thru the hourglass...
DG will stay and the narrative will be that the right pieces are in place and Shurmur just did a poor job. Another draft and free agency moves will make it better, despite the fact that DG has shown no track record over two years with the Giants of being able to fill holes through free agency.
There is something systemically wrong with the team beyond the coach. Unlike the Islanders, the team won’t be sold to owners committed to winning. So we have to hope they simply make better hiring choices, which is more crapshoot than plan since they artificially limit who can represent the Giants franchise.
So sit back, wait for the funny looking uniforms, and for Alex Tanney to be named our new GM.
In my previous post I said that DG and Mara's silence is deafening . Perhaps I didn't explain that. What I meant was that usually when a team is this bad the GM and/or the owner will give an interview or a press conference and try and spread some optimism. "Where moving in the right direction", "We have promising young players to build around", "We have faith in our coaches".
None of that is happening. DG and Mara are hiding under their desks. Shurmur is marched out like a human sacrifice after yet another Giant loss to spout off the same platitudes. He know's he's a dead man walking.
Personally, I think Mara has enough personal integrity that he wants to put a winning product on the field even if he has failed miserably in recent years. In that way he's different than the ass clowns that run the Jets. Like any business owner he'd rather work with people he's familiar with. Like some owners he's overly loyal to his coaches and his veteran players. But he's not blind and he's not going to stick his head in the sand. He acted decisively to axe McAdoo because he was not only a bad coach, he was disruptive and destructive. Much to my suprise he axed Reese too, admitting he was part of the problem.
My best guess is that at the end of this season it will be announced that DG is "retiring". In order to give the new GM a clean slate, Shurmur and his staff will not be retained.
It’s time to blow it all up, new scouts, new equipment managers, new coach’s and GM and everything. 10 wins in 3 seasons? Pathetic.
First, not all is hopeless. Possible have franchise QB & RB. Have a promising young wr too.
Really like this DL and think they have a lot of young talent in the secondary.
Real problem with this team is the dearth of talent at LB. Most productive player is a player creeping up on 30, coming off a torn acl. But he's ballin. One of our most promising players was a 5th round rookie who wound up on IR. Carter is developing slower than we would like and may not ever justidy 3rd round pick. XMan - don't know what we have here. Buchanan - belongs on the field, can be productive but not a main piece of the puzzle.
The other critical issue is the OL - Zietler and Hernandez are the core of a rebuilding unit. Perhaps, the toughest part of off season will be finding two quality starting tackles. Finding one is a heavy lift - two is a herculean feat.
But, they are competing. Played Cowboys tough for most of the game. same-same Bears, who were 12-4 last year. Fans really lost their shit after Cards loss - but they were two years removed from playoffs. Jets loss - can't drink that one pretty.
We're playing with the most rookie minutes of any other team, very very young team.
Everyone is clamoring for a new coach - I'm not an expert, but not arguing against it. Just don't know. Still think Bettcher is a good DC - just needs better LB crew. Wonder if Hunter is problem is the talent the problem or both (my guess is both).
Going to watch GB game and watch the rookies learn and see which veterans justify their contracts. Offense is going to have to step up for them to have any chance.
Things aren't good. But youngsters are learning and they are aquiring more talent. But, there are still more growing pains to come.
Off season = would try to get Jenkins to take cut, has been one of our best in secondary. I'd try and sign Williams and Tomlinson. I'd shop Engram - might get a 2nd or 3rd.
Some hits, some misses but he inherited a good sized mess, including a lousy scouting and personnel department which is a good part of the current state of affairs.
RE: the Shurmur milquetoast, rorschack bullshit. Only issue is whether he can fix the Xs and Os. Many people on this site opine on leadership, and just like the Xs and Os, maybe only a handful on the site who know what the fuck they're talking about.
I must admit, I am somewhat disappointed in the Green Bay Packer preview and your negativity.
In case you ask - what do I expect from you. See the link below then ask yourself -
Is this what football has done to you, Mr. Kennedy - the proud father of BBI?
link - ( New Window )
I feel like we're past the point of asking that question.
Lot of factors to consider = pre-snap reads for example
First, not all is hopeless. Possible have franchise QB & RB. Have a promising young wr too.
Really like this DL and think they have a lot of young talent in the secondary.
Real problem with this team is the dearth of talent at LB. Most productive player is a player creeping up on 30, coming off a torn acl. But he's ballin. One of our most promising players was a 5th round rookie who wound up on IR. Carter is developing slower than we would like and may not ever justidy 3rd round pick. XMan - don't know what we have here. Buchanan - belongs on the field, can be productive but not a main piece of the puzzle.
The other critical issue is the OL - Zietler and Hernandez are the core of a rebuilding unit. Perhaps, the toughest part of off season will be finding two quality starting tackles. Finding one is a heavy lift - two is a herculean feat.
But, they are competing. Played Cowboys tough for most of the game. same-same Bears, who were 12-4 last year. Fans really lost their shit after Cards loss - but they were two years removed from playoffs. Jets loss - can't drink that one pretty.
We're playing with the most rookie minutes of any other team, very very young team.
Everyone is clamoring for a new coach - I'm not an expert, but not arguing against it. Just don't know. Still think Bettcher is a good DC - just needs better LB crew. Wonder if Hunter is problem is the talent the problem or both (my guess is both).
Going to watch GB game and watch the rookies learn and see which veterans justify their contracts. Offense is going to have to step up for them to have any chance.
Things aren't good. But youngsters are learning and they are aquiring more talent. But, there are still more growing pains to come.
Off season = would try to get Jenkins to take cut, has been one of our best in secondary. I'd try and sign Williams and Tomlinson. I'd shop Engram - might get a 2nd or 3rd.
You can complain about Shurmur all you want...but he is hamstrung with an undermanned roster this season. That is a fact that will be taken into account when the Giants hopefully take a hard look at how they do things this offseason.
Shurmur and his staff own the roster as much as the FO.
Everyone wants to shit on DG but the coaching staff had a say in those moves. Bethea, Martin, Remmers, Golden, etc have Shurmur/Bechter’s fingers all over those moves. Then there was the report DG wanted to move Beckham a year prior but Shurmur went to bat for Beckham.
Ultimately it all falls on DG but Shurmur and co aren’t innocent victims in this debacle. If the roster is “undermanned” it’s at least in part due do to the guys they pushed for who aren’t worth a shit.
Some hits, some misses but he inherited a good sized mess, including a lousy scouting and personnel department which is a good part of the current state of affairs.
RE: the Shurmur milquetoast, rorschack bullshit. Only issue is whether he can fix the Xs and Os. Many people on this site opine on leadership, and just like the Xs and Os, maybe only a handful on the site who know what the fuck they're talking about.
If I'm mistaken, hasn't Gettleman maintained nearly all of the scouting staff?
Link - ( New Window )