Hadn’t missed a Giants game in atleast 3 years. Saw the TD to tie up the game 7-7 and stopped watching after that. Call it intuition. But after finishing with a client I checked the score and we were being trounced handedly. As I expected we would be.
Today was a good day for the FUTURE of the New York Giants.
to make up for how bad he has been in FA sn trades.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
when I flipped it over to the Giants game, it was more of the same: Abominable defense, poor playcalling and use of personnel especially Saquon, bad officiating and the usual recipe of mental errors and bad fundamentals.
It ain't even worth it unless you want to,listen in the car/headphones and get things done.
to make up for how bad he has been in FA sn trades.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
Barkley has regressed to the point to where I wouldn't call him good anymore.
I'm completely apathetic at this point until changes are made with the coaching staff.
The Maras aren’t gonna make the changes needed to turn this around — it’ll still be family & friends club (with an office for Chris Mara and whatever nephew needs a job). They aren’t gonna cede control to the type of ruthless football people the team needs at every level. They have little financial incentive with the $ still pouring in — and don’t hold your breath that they will be shamed into it.
Gettleman inherited an NFC East where 10 wins gets the division each s Â
to make up for how bad he has been in FA sn trades.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
Barkley has regressed to the point to where I wouldn't call him good anymore.
Im hoping its just injury related but i agree since coming back from his ankle injury hes looked like a JAG
He’s a rookie, it’s almost a given that he’s going to turn the ball over. He’ll learn from it.
The point is that there is a lot to like about the kid, but he has a lot to improve. If we have the #1 or #2 pick, we should be doing our homework on QBs. We criticize the organization for it's dysfunction. But forcing a player on a new coaching staff at such an important position reinforces the dysfunction. If as a fan you want a new staff, but want them to be forced to work with DJ, then don't ever criticize the dysfunction.
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
at least McAdoo had a plan that didn't work. I'm not sure we even have a game plan
Yeah, I'm at the point where I'd say this is worse than Reese/McAdoo. What we didn't see under McAdoo that we're seeing here is the team-wide regression. The roster itself is getting worse by the week. McAdoo at his worst wouldn't have turned Barkley into an average player.
For the record, drafting Barkley at #2 was a mistake, and I don't even think Reese would've done that.
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
Yup.
We've wasted two years with Gettleman. Acknowledge that, call it a sunk cost, and get to building a program.
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
A new regime might like Jones, but if we clean house (this means Chris Mara, Gettleman, Abrams, the scouts, etc) and the new regime wants Burrow, you draft Burrow, trade Jones, and keep moving.
Given the way the Redskins and Dolphins are playing, Giants will not likely taste victory again this year. And if DG and PS are still around, few victories next year in this “rebuild.”
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
Given the way the Redskins and Dolphins are playing, Giants will not likely taste victory again this year. And if DG and PS are still around, few victories next year in this “rebuild.”
The way this team is regressing under Shurmur? If the Shurmur/Gettleman/Chris Mara regime comes back intact this year, book it, the Giants will go 0-16.
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
You cant ask this question if the bumbling old fool is still the GM here.
IF mara does the unthinkable and fires DG and bring in a new front office then its fair to ask this question since they didnt pick jones. Gettleman should not be allowed to pick a !B at 6 and then pick another !B at 1 the next year. That is gross incompetence
He’s a rookie, it’s almost a given that he’s going to turn the ball over. He’ll learn from it.
The point is that there is a lot to like about the kid, but he has a lot to improve. If we have the #1 or #2 pick, we should be doing our homework on QBs. We criticize the organization for it's dysfunction. But forcing a player on a new coaching staff at such an important position reinforces the dysfunction. If as a fan you want a new staff, but want them to be forced to work with DJ, then don't ever criticize the dysfunction.
The point is he’s a rookie and most rookies have a lot to improve on. It’s very rare for rookie QBs to come in and excel. They are not going to give up on him in one year. That’s crazy.
and the Haley PI were shitty calls. The Beal call was barely touching and the ball was uncatchable. THe Haley one, the WR ran between defenders pushing his way through and all Haley did was hit his shoulder. Did not think he grabbed him. Another one where they allowed the WR make the call.
And then the play where Rodgers just threw the ball up and it was caught on 3rd and 14, the guard had Williams wrapped up around the chest and back, right in the middle of the play.
But they are another game closer to Chase Young. Boy do they need a pass rush.
I love the excuses with this guy. Can’t make it up.
HELL NO to that nonsense by Shurmur. A young team is supposed to be awful early in the season but improved enough by this point in the season to be competitive every week and maybe win a few games
I think he has been told the team is committed to him and Gettleman and he has nothing to worry about.
Get ready the same show is coming back
IF they all come back next season im finding a new team to watch next season .i will still root for the giants of course but i cant watch these games anymore with him as the coach
tend to have an awful first half of the season (1-7 or 2-6) and play much better in the second half of the season (sometimes going 4-4 or 5-3). The Giants haven't won since Week 4
Given the way the Redskins and Dolphins are playing, Giants will not likely taste victory again this year. And if DG and PS are still around, few victories next year in this “rebuild.”
You think things are bad around here now.....wait until the Skins game when Haskins outperforms Jones.....oh boy.
A new front office should be brought in and make the decision Â
how they want to proceed going forward with quite possibly the top pick in the draft . Do they want to trade down for a haul of picks ? chase young ? or maybe trade jones and draft burrow ?
All options should be on the table . 1 thing though is gettleman and mara need to be far away from making that decision
I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
ain't a novelty in this league. The INT's today were bad and on him but still think those are going to happen. I'd be shocked if a new regime took over and wanted to move on to someone else. He's shown way too much for that IMO.
we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
Tom Brady, 6th round, is kinda like once in a century
I think he has been told the team is committed to him and Gettleman and he has nothing to worry about.
Get ready the same show is coming back
IF they all come back next season im finding a new team to watch next season .i will still root for the giants of course but i cant watch these games anymore with him as the coach
Agreed. The only thing PS will do is move up from 7th all-time losing record to 6th or maybe 4th. Most coaches on that list don’t hang around as long as PS May be in NY.
Given the way the Redskins and Dolphins are playing, Giants will not likely taste victory again this year. And if DG and PS are still around, few victories next year in this “rebuild.”
You think things are bad around here now.....wait until the Skins game when Haskins outperforms Jones.....oh boy.
Given the rate of regression of the players on this team - and the state of our defense - Haskins will almost surely outplay Jones. He outplayed Jones today.
Today felt like the end. Half-empty stadium, the other half rooting for the visitors, completely dead team, poor performance from the young guys (and the old guys, and everyone involved).
I’m sure he’ll be fired at the end of this season but now I don’t know that he makes it that far.
I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
is not the problem. Any new coach won't be hired unless he accepts Jones.
That is limiting the pool of coaches. If you have 10 candidates and then impose conditions, you might end up with 6 candidates. That is dysfunctional. Anyone who demands the condition on a new coach relinquishes the right to complain about organizational dysfunction. Full Stop. You can't complain about some while accepting other.
RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
With each loss are you gaining confidence there will be a new regime?
RE: RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
Gotta love revisionist history. People were questioning Eli until his playoff run in 2007
Yep. Week 14 of his rookie year was the famous 4-18 for 27 yards with 2 picks and a fumble. Also, that team was immensely more talented on offense than this one is especially with Engram and Tate out.
And I’m one who didn’t want to draft him. He’s not the problem. The OL and the defense are.
I like him too while realizing that he has a lot to improve on. I also don't think any player on this team is a sacred cow entitled to their full scholarship. If a new regime wants to trade SB, then so be it. If they prefer a different QB, they should have that freedom.
is not the problem. Any new coach won't be hired unless he accepts Jones.
Dreadful way to build a team.
Don't agree. Jones has shown more than enough to be considered the next QB of the Giants. He has no OL, and few weapons on offense. The defense can't stop anyone, generates no pressure, and has continual blown coverages in the secondary with all the rookies. We also have no speed at LB or S.
DG also drafted Jones. He won't hire any coach that doesn't agree to keep Jones, and develop him. I think ownership would take the same view even if DG was fired.
RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
RE: RE: I’m fine taking an honest look at Jones.. Â
I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
you also have to consider that if you're taking Burrow you're presumably passing up on Chase Young who could be a once every ~5 or so years type pass rusher prospect. You get him on his rookie deal too and even good, not great ER's get paid handsomely.
I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
I don't agree with that. There's no scenario where keeping Gettleman makes sense. His presence hurts the organization.
Mrs. Hog-Mollies and Pat Shurmur have ‘built’ the worst team in the NFC and the the second worst in the league. These must be growing pains, but the problem is there is no assurance things will improve. Franchise Hell.
What's the scenario in which this happens we're discussing? Cincinatti passes up Burrow for Young and we're at 2? I'd imagine in that scenario you can get more by trading that pick then than you would from trading Jones and to me that says little about who will be the better pro. Someone will fall in love with him and want to sell the fanbase on the excitement of the unknown. Sure, the Giants feel Burrow is going to be a superstar and Jones isn't I'd trade Jones if you can get some value in return.
I caught the first half of the Dolphins upset today Â
It was very instructive. They are an undertalented team that executed their assignments, play with gusto and actually seem to have fun out there. Their 2nd TD has to be one if the most creative play designs I’ve ever seen. It worked perfectly and — no hyperbole — but literally any of the posters on this forum could have thrown or caught the pass.
play three quarters of pretty decent football. then the wheels fall off.
little annoyed to see Williams yukking it up with Rodgers after a play. I know it's a business but at some point you have to take losing personal, and get tired of being at the bottom of the barrel.
Jones made a dumb throw or two todaay, but he's not the problem.
and seeing Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg play key roles in strong offensive line performances. Insult to injury.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
You have to be careful about who DJ is saying “well if he had xyz he’d be fine.” That’s part of the reason they are in this mess, because the same excuse was used for Eli. You don’t draft a qb with the 6th pick to be fine, you want a top 10 qb who elevates his team. I think DN can be elite, but if a new regime likes Burrow better, than they need to select him.
I’m sure having DJ in place makes this job attractive to a head coach but you never know.
I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
I don't agree with that. There's no scenario where keeping Gettleman makes sense. His presence hurts the organization.
have a proven QB in Jones, but people want to trade him for a potentially shiner object in Burrow, a one year starter surrounded by a plethora of NFL talent on maybe the best team in college football. Plenty of first round QBs bust. And I didn't even want to take Jones at #6 or #17. I wanted to trade #37 for Rosen.
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
and seeing Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg play key roles in strong offensive line performances. Insult to injury.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
That tells you the problems are deeper. Plus, Solder, Remmers, and Zeitler were decent offensive lineman or better elsewhere before coming here and sucking.
have a proven QB in Jones, but people want to trade him for a potentially shiner object in Burrow, a one year starter surrounded by a plethora of NFL talent on maybe the best team in college football. Plenty of first round QBs bust. And I didn't even want to take Jones at #6 or #17. I wanted to trade #37 for Rosen.
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
You have to be careful about who DJ is saying “well if he had xyz he’d be fine.” That’s part of the reason they are in this mess, because the same excuse was used for Eli. You don’t draft a qb with the 6th pick to be fine, you want a top 10 qb who elevates his team. I think DN can be elite, but if a new regime likes Burrow better, than they need to select him.
I’m sure having DJ in place makes this job attractive to a head coach but you never know.
Eli would've been fine if they had a real offensive line. Those excuses became an issue when he was 35-36 years old. Other than the team they play for, the situations couldn't be more different.
and seeing Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg play key roles in strong offensive line performances. Insult to injury.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
Richburg was a weird pick for us, he was undersized for what we ran, but he's the prototypical center for the Kyle/Mike Shanahan zone blocking scheme.
Without even reading I can't add anything thats already been said . Â
The crazy part was that the announcers were saying the
things I was thinking .
Crucial play use practice squad player .
3rd and one bring in stone cold FB that rarely gets
carries mind numbing . Defense ill prepared another coaching
blunder didn't UN-Shurmur notice what the announcer saw
call a TO dipshit no Rodgers just punks us 12 men on
the field .Miami beats the Eagles they will stomp us out !
RE: RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
Meant to say that I would select edge rusher, center, or LT rather than Burrow.
have a proven QB in Jones, but people want to trade him for a potentially shiner object in Burrow, a one year starter surrounded by a plethora of NFL talent on maybe the best team in college football. Plenty of first round QBs bust. And I didn't even want to take Jones at #6 or #17. I wanted to trade #37 for Rosen.
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
Proven? Proven how?
He's done remarkably well considering the situation.
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
He has passed the eye test earlier in the year, but he hasn't the last couple of games.
If the Giants were to do the right thing and clean house from Chris Mara down to the scouts, and a new regime decided Burrow was better than Jones, then you trade Jones and go with Burrow. Don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy.
(While we're at it, I'd have to think about what I could get for Barkley if I were a new regime as well. Surprise, drafting a RB #2 overall is not working.)
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
RE: Yeah Barkley shouldn't be long for this team Â
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
You forgot the coaching and play-calling which is as big a culprit as anything else you posted (all of which I agree with).
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
That goes down as one of the worst draft picks in franchise history.
When was the last time you had a positive comment? Has it happened yet?
Are you this miserable all of the time or just when you log on here?
All the team does is lose. Lose at home, lose on the road, lose in bad weather, lose in good weather, lose to good teams, lose to shit teams, lose to divisonal opponents, lose to the AFC, lose in prime time, lose at 1 pm, lose on Monday/Thursday night, lose with the GOAT Eli, lose with Jones, lose with a 4 - 3 base D, lose with a 3 - 4 base D, lose with a draft bust at LT, lose with an overpaid FA at LT, lose to the loser Jets and lose, lose, lose and lose
There is basically nothing to make positive comments about. The lack of improvement or hope is the biggest problem. What is there to be positive about?
Burrow is playing with NFL talent around him Terps Â
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
I wouldn't say Jones is proven, but up until the last couple of games before Shurmur Regression (tm) claimed him, I thought he passed the eye test.
The bigger picture though, is that if we move on from the Chris Mara/Gettleman/Shurmur regime and clean house, a new regime should have the freedom to go in a different direction from Jones if they feel the need to. I think that's all people are saying.
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
You forgot the coaching and play-calling which is as big a culprit as anything else you posted (all of which I agree with).
is a poor way to judge QB play akin to ERA in baseball. His intended air yards per attempt is incredibly low — a function of playcalling, time in the pocket and YAC.
Plus, he’s a rookie and we all know there’s a ton that’s wrong with this team. If the results look the same at the end of next year then we have to address the qb situation
are overlooking that Jones was drafted at least partially because he was considered to have the mental makeup to survive in the New York media market. That plus his play on the field are why the Giants won't and shouldn't move on from him, even if everyone is fired. Ownership simply won't hire any GM or coach that doesn't at least initially accept him as the QB.
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
People have lost their minds. Why stand up for anything related to this team?
He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
People have lost their minds. Why stand up for anything related to this team?
TD s are pretty important.
The offense isn't creating many TDs with Jones at QB Â
So let's blame the QB because he had a clown at head coach, a leaky pass protecting line, #1 TE who can't block or stay on the field, his #1 WR who is 5th round pick due to other factors surrounding Tate and Shepard. Barkley being ineffective due to injury and the already mentioned below-average line.
But Burrow fixes all those. Got it. Fucking rich.
RE: Yeah Barkley shouldn't be long for this team Â
That goes down as one of the worst draft picks in franchise history.
Saying Barkley is not long for this team is just plain silly. You don't trade or cut the best running back on the team simply because he was drafted before other players who would have had a bigger impact.
RE: RE: Yeah Barkley shouldn't be long for this team Â
That goes down as one of the worst draft picks in franchise history.
Saying Barkley is not long for this team is just plain silly. You don't trade or cut the best running back on the team simply because he was drafted before other players who would have had a bigger impact.
Terps is such a clown. His takes are pretty bad and he should probably go root for the jets or some shit. Trashing Barkley or Jones is pretty silly. They are good players on a trash team
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones’ rookie season is light year’s better Â
Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
Jones is playing under a different set of rules in a more "qb friendly" offense in an era where a lot of teams are running college offenses.
RE: The offense isn't creating many TDs with Jones at QB Â
That's Jones' fault? He's a 22 year old rookie QB playing behind one of the league's worst offensive lines. His WR's aren't among the league's best either and that is when they are actually on the field which hasn't been too often. He's also been without his #1 TE often as well.
Daniel Jones has thrown 18 touchdowns in 10 starts. Â
Over a full season that equates to 29 touchdown passes. That doesn't include his rushing touchdowns. Eli threw for 29 or more touchdowns only four times in his career.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
I'm always surprised by how much fans cling to sacred cows Â
The team is dogshit, and has been so for years, but still there are fans making the case for the sacred cows.
Gotta cling to something, I guess.
I said it earlier. We aren't good enough for any sacred cows to exist. They all can go to slaughter.
My position is that there should be no conditions attached to the new staff. If they decide they want to work with players, then that is their decision and not an excuse to be used later when/if they fail.
Having the #2 pick and potentially the #1 pick, we should be keeping all options open. If the new staff decides on Chase, then so be it. But it should be clear with a new staff. There are no scholarships. DJ must improve his shortcomings if he want to be the guy going forward. And that basic reality applies to all 53 players.
RE: Daniel Jones has thrown 18 touchdowns in 10 starts. Â
Over a full season that equates to 29 touchdown passes. That doesn't include his rushing touchdowns. Eli threw for 29 or more touchdowns only four times in his career.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
This. Jones is the least of our problems. Give him a running game and defense that can get off the field on 3rd and long or 4th down for that matter and we would be a pretty good team.
said the situation here is "ugly" and that Shurmur "knows what is coming" at the end of the season. Pretty much implied that he will be dismissed at the end of the season
RE: Daniel Jones has thrown 18 touchdowns in 10 starts. Â
Over a full season that equates to 29 touchdown passes. That doesn't include his rushing touchdowns. Eli threw for 29 or more touchdowns only four times in his career.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
The old "record" stood for less than a season. Some record.
Teams are throwing and winning with 3rd stringers and low round draft choices and some of them don't have the 2nd pick in a draft drawing attention for them.
I came to the conclusion that the Giants are the worst team in the NFL Â
today. They're basically dependent on a rookie QB not to be just good, but damn near perfect in order to win games. Their defense is embarrassingly bad. The Bengals have held their 3 most recent opponents under 20 points. The Giants have done that just twice the entire season. Washington ran for almost 250 yards today. How many games would it take for the Giants to reach 250 rushing yards? They couldn't get FIVE yards on three carries on the opening possession of the game. Jones cannot game manage them to a win with 15-20 attempts (like Ducky of the Steelers today) because the other aspects of the team are so weak that they must throw in order to score points. Today, he made quite a few mistakes, some nice plays, and displayed some serious toughness. That's life as a rookie QB.
Yes, the Giants are a young team with rookies playing a TON of snaps. But the o-line with 3 highly experienced players and 2 non-rookies is pathetic. The Giants didn't allow any sacks today, but does that mean the line played well. Of course not. The kid got hit left and right.
When the Giants fire Pat Shurmur after the season, they should let James Bettcher go first. The Giants defensive gameplans make zero sense. The other team has 1 good WR. The Giants don't put their lone good corner on him nor do they give the assortment of rookie DBs any help.
At one point early in the game, damn near every player who wears a "C" on his jersey for the Giants screwed up an assignment or messed up in some way.
RE: RE: I'm always surprised by how much fans cling to sacred cows Â
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves.
How many recent Giants players have actually gotten better as their young career progressed?
The only one I can think of now plays for the Browns.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
Not only that, but a hypothetical TD pass total that hasn't even happened yet.
No one is saying that the team should move on from Jones. It's just that the mere idea of doing so should not be a non-starter for a new hypothetical coaching staff or regime. I don't think he should be a sacred cow unless the best the Giants can get for trading him is a second rounder.
Hopefully Philly loses in Miami. It’ll make next Monday an absolute nightmare for the NYG down there.
Today was a good day for the FUTURE of the New York Giants.
Just Lose baby.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
If football were 45 minutes, he’d be a HOF coach
It ain't even worth it unless you want to,listen in the car/headphones and get things done.
He’s a rookie, it’s almost a given that he’s going to turn the ball over. He’ll learn from it.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
Barkley has regressed to the point to where I wouldn't call him good anymore.
[quote] lol [/quote
2*-14 team
Don't even recognize this guy
The Maras aren’t gonna make the changes needed to turn this around — it’ll still be family & friends club (with an office for Chris Mara and whatever nephew needs a job). They aren’t gonna cede control to the type of ruthless football people the team needs at every level. They have little financial incentive with the $ still pouring in — and don’t hold your breath that they will be shamed into it.
Nice job asshole.
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to make up for how bad he has been in FA sn trades.
Well his 2018 draft looks terrible right now.
Barkley is good but as the 2nd pick it was the wrong pick, hernandez has regressed, carter hill and rj mcintosh im not sure they are on the team anymore, and lauletta is gone.
Dont forget the supplemental 4rd round pick in beal cant get on the field.
Dont fool yourself. Shurmur sucks, one of the worst coaches of all time but gettleman needs to go too
Barkley has regressed to the point to where I wouldn't call him good anymore.
Im hoping its just injury related but i agree since coming back from his ankle injury hes looked like a JAG
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He’s a rookie, it’s almost a given that he’s going to turn the ball over. He’ll learn from it.
The point is that there is a lot to like about the kid, but he has a lot to improve. If we have the #1 or #2 pick, we should be doing our homework on QBs. We criticize the organization for it's dysfunction. But forcing a player on a new coaching staff at such an important position reinforces the dysfunction. If as a fan you want a new staff, but want them to be forced to work with DJ, then don't ever criticize the dysfunction.
Nice job asshole.
what a perfect day!
giants are 100% in on the chase young sweepstakes
i am excited for a new coaching staff too
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
Yeah, I'm at the point where I'd say this is worse than Reese/McAdoo. What we didn't see under McAdoo that we're seeing here is the team-wide regression. The roster itself is getting worse by the week. McAdoo at his worst wouldn't have turned Barkley into an average player.
For the record, drafting Barkley at #2 was a mistake, and I don't even think Reese would've done that.
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we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
this has happened once in the nfl. Not going to happen.
i hope it doesnt...would suck.
hindsight is perfect vision but id love j allen last year and a sht at burrow this year lol.
that being said i think jones is going to be very good. we now have a chance to add young who is a better prospect than j allen was sooooo
That’s a new one?
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we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
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we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
Yup.
We've wasted two years with Gettleman. Acknowledge that, call it a sunk cost, and get to building a program.
A new regime might like Jones, but if we clean house (this means Chris Mara, Gettleman, Abrams, the scouts, etc) and the new regime wants Burrow, you draft Burrow, trade Jones, and keep moving.
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In comment 14697624 broadbandz said:
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we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
I think you'd get a 1st rounder for Jones.
The way this team is regressing under Shurmur? If the Shurmur/Gettleman/Chris Mara regime comes back intact this year, book it, the Giants will go 0-16.
You cant ask this question if the bumbling old fool is still the GM here.
IF mara does the unthinkable and fires DG and bring in a new front office then its fair to ask this question since they didnt pick jones. Gettleman should not be allowed to pick a !B at 6 and then pick another !B at 1 the next year. That is gross incompetence
That’s a new one?
Great point. Shurmur takes no responsibility for his inability. That is why things don’t improve.
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In comment 14697599 Diver_Down said:
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He’s a rookie, it’s almost a given that he’s going to turn the ball over. He’ll learn from it.
The point is that there is a lot to like about the kid, but he has a lot to improve. If we have the #1 or #2 pick, we should be doing our homework on QBs. We criticize the organization for it's dysfunction. But forcing a player on a new coaching staff at such an important position reinforces the dysfunction. If as a fan you want a new staff, but want them to be forced to work with DJ, then don't ever criticize the dysfunction.
The point is he’s a rookie and most rookies have a lot to improve on. It’s very rare for rookie QBs to come in and excel. They are not going to give up on him in one year. That’s crazy.
giants are 100% in on the chase young sweepstakes
i am excited for a new coaching staff too
My feeling as well. Very excited for the off-season.
The Giants are in “team hell” with this coaching staff. Each loss ensures Shurmur is shown the door and a real staff is brought in.
Each loss gets the Giants closer to a true game changer on defense — Chase Young.
Today was a good day.
Get ready the same show is coming back
And then the play where Rodgers just threw the ball up and it was caught on 3rd and 14, the guard had Williams wrapped up around the chest and back, right in the middle of the play.
But they are another game closer to Chase Young. Boy do they need a pass rush.
Quote the culture Gettleman and Shurmur have established.
good-bye Shurmur,
we're glad to see you go.
HELL NO to that nonsense by Shurmur. A young team is supposed to be awful early in the season but improved enough by this point in the season to be competitive every week and maybe win a few games
Get ready the same show is coming back
IF they all come back next season im finding a new team to watch next season .i will still root for the giants of course but i cant watch these games anymore with him as the coach
So he can’t coach or Getts can’t pick em right? Or combination of both? That is a terrible excuse!
I was being sarcastic. Everyone here wants to get rid of him for a QB we know nothing about..
Dreadful way to build a team.
You think things are bad around here now.....wait until the Skins game when Haskins outperforms Jones.....oh boy.
All options should be on the table . 1 thing though is gettleman and mara need to be far away from making that decision
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In comment 14697624 broadbandz said:
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we draft Joe Burrough and trade Daniel? The new coaching staff is going to want their own qb.
The new staff should have the freedom to choose. No player should be forced on the new staff. We aren't a good enough team to have sacred cows. Everyone should be considered for slaughter.
I agree. If we can get a 5th rounder for DJ I'd take it...
Tom Brady, 6th round, is kinda like once in a century
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I think he has been told the team is committed to him and Gettleman and he has nothing to worry about.
Get ready the same show is coming back
IF they all come back next season im finding a new team to watch next season .i will still root for the giants of course but i cant watch these games anymore with him as the coach
Agreed. The only thing PS will do is move up from 7th all-time losing record to 6th or maybe 4th. Most coaches on that list don’t hang around as long as PS May be in NY.
Mr Hog-Millie’s hasn’t done either. Got rid of Beckham and picked up Solder—the worst for the most $.
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Given the way the Redskins and Dolphins are playing, Giants will not likely taste victory again this year. And if DG and PS are still around, few victories next year in this “rebuild.”
You think things are bad around here now.....wait until the Skins game when Haskins outperforms Jones.....oh boy.
Given the rate of regression of the players on this team - and the state of our defense - Haskins will almost surely outplay Jones. He outplayed Jones today.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
I’m sure he’ll be fired at the end of this season but now I don’t know that he makes it that far.
We are too young to win.
We are not good enough from a personnel perspective to win
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
Gotta love revisionist history. People were questioning Eli until his playoff run in 2007
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
That is limiting the pool of coaches. If you have 10 candidates and then impose conditions, you might end up with 6 candidates. That is dysfunctional. Anyone who demands the condition on a new coach relinquishes the right to complain about organizational dysfunction. Full Stop. You can't complain about some while accepting other.
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
Jones' year is better than Eli's. Today I think was a stinker. 1st time he was really inaccurate with his throws and Eli did have a much better line.
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I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
With each loss are you gaining confidence there will be a new regime?
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In comment 14697744 jeff57 said:
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
Gotta love revisionist history. People were questioning Eli until his playoff run in 2007
Yep. Week 14 of his rookie year was the famous 4-18 for 27 yards with 2 picks and a fumble. Also, that team was immensely more talented on offense than this one is especially with Engram and Tate out.
I like him too while realizing that he has a lot to improve on. I also don't think any player on this team is a sacred cow entitled to their full scholarship. If a new regime wants to trade SB, then so be it. If they prefer a different QB, they should have that freedom.
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is not the problem. Any new coach won't be hired unless he accepts Jones.
Dreadful way to build a team.
Don't agree. Jones has shown more than enough to be considered the next QB of the Giants. He has no OL, and few weapons on offense. The defense can't stop anyone, generates no pressure, and has continual blown coverages in the secondary with all the rookies. We also have no speed at LB or S.
DG also drafted Jones. He won't hire any coach that doesn't agree to keep Jones, and develop him. I think ownership would take the same view even if DG was fired.
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
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I think he throws a gorgeous ball and has a lot of intangibles I like. Is the kid from LSU a lock to be better? He better be if you make a move like that.
No one's ever a lock, but the new regime that should be brought in must be allowed to make what moves they see necessary.
To my eye Burrow is a better prospect, but that's not the only consideration. Also consider:
- drafting Burrow boys another year of a rookie contract at QB
- we'd presumably get something in trade for Jones and be able to use that to help build the new program
I don't think we should be committed to a single player on this roster.
you also have to consider that if you're taking Burrow you're presumably passing up on Chase Young who could be a once every ~5 or so years type pass rusher prospect. You get him on his rookie deal too and even good, not great ER's get paid handsomely.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
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I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
I don't agree with that. There's no scenario where keeping Gettleman makes sense. His presence hurts the organization.
What's the scenario in which this happens we're discussing? Cincinatti passes up Burrow for Young and we're at 2? I'd imagine in that scenario you can get more by trading that pick then than you would from trading Jones and to me that says little about who will be the better pro. Someone will fall in love with him and want to sell the fanbase on the excitement of the unknown. Sure, the Giants feel Burrow is going to be a superstar and Jones isn't I'd trade Jones if you can get some value in return.
I love that they beat the Eagles.
little annoyed to see Williams yukking it up with Rodgers after a play. I know it's a business but at some point you have to take losing personal, and get tired of being at the bottom of the barrel.
Jones made a dumb throw or two todaay, but he's not the problem.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
I’m sure having DJ in place makes this job attractive to a head coach but you never know.
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In comment 14697810 Go Terps said:
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I think Shurmur's gone. Not Gettleman though. And that means more wasted time is on the horizon unless Gettleman becomes completely marginalized and below the head coach on all decisions.
I don’t think that’s impossible. Bill2 made some great points about that. Timing might make more sense to keep Gettleman while phasing him out.
I don't agree with that. There's no scenario where keeping Gettleman makes sense. His presence hurts the organization.
And yet we're almost assuredly keeping Gettleman.
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
That tells you the problems are deeper. Plus, Solder, Remmers, and Zeitler were decent offensive lineman or better elsewhere before coming here and sucking.
it is why did we use 1st round picks on them. (2nd on Richburg)
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
Proven? Proven how?
I’m sure having DJ in place makes this job attractive to a head coach but you never know.
Eli would've been fine if they had a real offensive line. Those excuses became an issue when he was 35-36 years old. Other than the team they play for, the situations couldn't be more different.
I don't think either one of them are any great shakes, but they're functioning on lines that are playing well. Why the hell is it they couldn't do that here, and neither could the players that replaced them? What gives?
Richburg was a weird pick for us, he was undersized for what we ran, but he's the prototypical center for the Kyle/Mike Shanahan zone blocking scheme.
things I was thinking .
Crucial play use practice squad player .
3rd and one bring in stone cold FB that rarely gets
carries mind numbing . Defense ill prepared another coaching
blunder didn't UN-Shurmur notice what the announcer saw
call a TO dipshit no Rodgers just punks us 12 men on
the field .Miami beats the Eagles they will stomp us out !
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In comment 14697744 jeff57 said:
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
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In comment 14697764 FStubbs said:
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In comment 14697744 jeff57 said:
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
Meant to say that I would select edge rusher, center, or LT rather than Burrow.
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have a proven QB in Jones, but people want to trade him for a potentially shiner object in Burrow, a one year starter surrounded by a plethora of NFL talent on maybe the best team in college football. Plenty of first round QBs bust. And I didn't even want to take Jones at #6 or #17. I wanted to trade #37 for Rosen.
The answer as to what to do if Young is gone, is to trade down. The problem is that the Giants haven't traded down since Accorsi took Kiwi. DG also never traded down when he was at Carolina.
Proven? Proven how?
He's done remarkably well considering the situation.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
He has passed the eye test earlier in the year, but he hasn't the last couple of games.
If the Giants were to do the right thing and clean house from Chris Mara down to the scouts, and a new regime decided Burrow was better than Jones, then you trade Jones and go with Burrow. Don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy.
(While we're at it, I'd have to think about what I could get for Barkley if I were a new regime as well. Surprise, drafting a RB #2 overall is not working.)
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
When was the last time you had a positive comment? Has it happened yet?
Are you this miserable all of the time or just when you log on here?
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
You forgot the coaching and play-calling which is as big a culprit as anything else you posted (all of which I agree with).
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
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That goes down as one of the worst draft picks in franchise history.
When was the last time you had a positive comment? Has it happened yet?
Are you this miserable all of the time or just when you log on here?
All the team does is lose. Lose at home, lose on the road, lose in bad weather, lose in good weather, lose to good teams, lose to shit teams, lose to divisonal opponents, lose to the AFC, lose in prime time, lose at 1 pm, lose on Monday/Thursday night, lose with the GOAT Eli, lose with Jones, lose with a 4 - 3 base D, lose with a 3 - 4 base D, lose with a draft bust at LT, lose with an overpaid FA at LT, lose to the loser Jets and lose, lose, lose and lose
There is basically nothing to make positive comments about. The lack of improvement or hope is the biggest problem. What is there to be positive about?
Is he really that good or is LSU that loaded of a team?
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
I wouldn't say Jones is proven, but up until the last couple of games before Shurmur Regression (tm) claimed him, I thought he passed the eye test.
The bigger picture though, is that if we move on from the Chris Mara/Gettleman/Shurmur regime and clean house, a new regime should have the freedom to go in a different direction from Jones if they feel the need to. I think that's all people are saying.
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In comment 14697918 Go Terps said:
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
Again, don't agree. Jones has done remarkably well considering everything. His OL is moribund. Solder and Remmers are turnstiles, and Halapio constantly gets pushed backwards. Barkley has missed a lot of blitz pickups or has simply been run over. The end result is that Jones is being routinely hammered.
His receivers can't separate, so he has to hold the ball hoping they will. That doesn't excuse all of his fumbles, but it does help explain them.
Tate was suspended for the first four games, and was also out today. Engram and Shepard have missed a large part of the season. His #1 target is a rookie fifth round pick.
Barkley can't run, largely because of the OL.
The defense can't generate pressure, and has constant blown assignments in the secondary.
Jones has made some incredibly accurate throws and is mobile. He's also shown a great deal of toughness.
Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves. Nobody knows anything about Burrow right now. I'm not taking the chance, and neither will the Giants, even if DG is fired.
You forgot the coaching and play-calling which is as big a culprit as anything else you posted (all of which I agree with).
Agreed.
Plus, he’s a rookie and we all know there’s a ton that’s wrong with this team. If the results look the same at the end of next year then we have to address the qb situation
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In comment 14697918 Go Terps said:
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
This team is 2-8. Since 2017, they have 10 wins. No team in the NFL is worse in that time frame.
"Cant you say something positive" is a joke. Are you high?
This team is 2-8. Since 2017, they have 10 wins. No team in the NFL is worse in that time frame.
"Cant you say something positive" is a joke. Are you high?
Since Chris Mara took over as VP of Player Personnel, this team has made the playoffs once and has had 6 seasons of double digit losses.
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In comment 14698030 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14697918 Go Terps said:
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
People have lost their minds. Why stand up for anything related to this team?
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In comment 14698046 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14698030 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14697918 Go Terps said:
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He actually hasn't. The numbers paint a picture of a fairly ineffective player.
Does that mean he always will be ineffective? No, but it's not like this has been a good year for him either.
I’d bet money he sets the rookie record for TD passes this year. He’s had a good year all things considered — shitty coaching staff, bad OL, and injured skill players every week. Dumping Jones given what we know about his floor and potential would be the epitome of dumb in favor of a one year wonder in Brrows.
But obviously this contradicts the shitty narrative you want to cut/paste on every single thread so whatever.
"Narrative" has become a crutch for dinner people that want to sound smart.
Jones is averaging a little over 6 yards per pass, takes a ton of sacks, and turns the ball over a ton. The Giants have only scored about 20 points per game since he took over. He is 2-8 as a starter.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that counts as good, considering how precipitously standards have fallen on all things Giants.
What’s stupid is the same tired shit you post on every thread. Get new material.
Those stats are meaningless without context. Cherry picked crap to support a shit take.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
People have lost their minds. Why stand up for anything related to this team?
TD s are pretty important.
But Burrow fixes all those. Got it. Fucking rich.
Saying Barkley is not long for this team is just plain silly. You don't trade or cut the best running back on the team simply because he was drafted before other players who would have had a bigger impact.
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That goes down as one of the worst draft picks in franchise history.
Saying Barkley is not long for this team is just plain silly. You don't trade or cut the best running back on the team simply because he was drafted before other players who would have had a bigger impact.
Terps is such a clown. His takes are pretty bad and he should probably go root for the jets or some shit. Trashing Barkley or Jones is pretty silly. They are good players on a trash team
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In comment 14697764 FStubbs said:
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In comment 14697744 jeff57 said:
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Than Manning’s. Get him an OL and a #1 receiver and he’s going to be really good.
No, it's not. Eli showed improvement later on in the year. Jones is regressing.
He was only a little less bad. Jones hadn’t thrown an INT for over 100 passes till today. He’s thrown 17 TDs in 10 games
IMO Jones is far better in his rookie year than Eli in his. You need to go back and look at the video of the Giants 6 losses in 2004 with Eli starting to see just how lost he looked, how immobile he was, and how weak his arm was in terms of velocity and accuracy. Eli engineered a final victory against Dallas, but his arm was no more impressive than in the preceding six games. Jones is more mobile, has a stronger arm, and equal if not better accuracy. Is Jones better than Burrow will be? Probably not. But if I had the 1st overall pick, I would select an edge rusher or a center rather than Burrow.
That's Jones' fault? He's a 22 year old rookie QB playing behind one of the league's worst offensive lines. His WR's aren't among the league's best either and that is when they are actually on the field which hasn't been too often. He's also been without his #1 TE often as well.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
Gotta cling to something, I guess.
Gotta cling to something, I guess.
You trashed Jones but look at the stats above .....
The team is bad sure but you hate everyone on the team. You're just a whiny bitch
Is he really that good or is LSU that loaded of a team?
That's a fair point. It's pretty clear Jones is not playing with NFL talent around him.
Gotta cling to something, I guess.
I said it earlier. We aren't good enough for any sacred cows to exist. They all can go to slaughter.
My position is that there should be no conditions attached to the new staff. If they decide they want to work with players, then that is their decision and not an excuse to be used later when/if they fail.
Having the #2 pick and potentially the #1 pick, we should be keeping all options open. If the new staff decides on Chase, then so be it. But it should be clear with a new staff. There are no scholarships. DJ must improve his shortcomings if he want to be the guy going forward. And that basic reality applies to all 53 players.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
This. Jones is the least of our problems. Give him a running game and defense that can get off the field on 3rd and long or 4th down for that matter and we would be a pretty good team.
That would be a new NFL record for TD passes by a rookie QB and some are still not impressed despite the poor coaching, injuries, and poor OL.
Teams are throwing and winning with 3rd stringers and low round draft choices and some of them don't have the 2nd pick in a draft drawing attention for them.
Yes, the Giants are a young team with rookies playing a TON of snaps. But the o-line with 3 highly experienced players and 2 non-rookies is pathetic. The Giants didn't allow any sacks today, but does that mean the line played well. Of course not. The kid got hit left and right.
When the Giants fire Pat Shurmur after the season, they should let James Bettcher go first. The Giants defensive gameplans make zero sense. The other team has 1 good WR. The Giants don't put their lone good corner on him nor do they give the assortment of rookie DBs any help.
At one point early in the game, damn near every player who wears a "C" on his jersey for the Giants screwed up an assignment or messed up in some way.
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The team is dogshit, and has been so for years, but still there are fans making the case for the sacred cows.
Gotta cling to something, I guess.
You trashed Jones but look at the stats above .....
The team is bad sure but you hate everyone on the team. You're just a whiny bitch
Amen Go Twerps is just a miserable person constant bitching
Go Away !
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Burrow could be better. But Jones is a proven commodity. There's every reason to believe that he will be even better once the talent around him improves.
How many recent Giants players have actually gotten better as their young career progressed?
The only one I can think of now plays for the Browns.
Good find.
Cherry picked? But pointing to his TD pass total isn't cherry picking?
Not only that, but a hypothetical TD pass total that hasn't even happened yet.
No one is saying that the team should move on from Jones. It's just that the mere idea of doing so should not be a non-starter for a new hypothetical coaching staff or regime. I don't think he should be a sacred cow unless the best the Giants can get for trading him is a second rounder.