They were undermanned today, but hung with Green Bay for a while. I thought guys on both sides made good plays today, despite the schemes on both sides putting them at a disadvantage.
Let Eli finish the year out as Coach. Move Bethea to dB coach. Jessie armstead as dcoordinator. Taney as offensive coordinator. Deossie can be special teams coach.
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
We are the worst coaches team in the NFL. I honestly don’t even think it’s close.
That being said, the roster is a disaster also.
We have no pass rushers and no young pass rushers with potential.
Same with both offensive tackle positions.
Same with the Center position.
Same with the linebacker position outside of Connelly.
All the young corners are huge question marks.
We need at least 1 legit WR1.
The tight ends are huge question marks (either bc of injury or talent)
The kicker has been awful
The safeties are dreadful.
We have a good young QB and RB. A good young WR. A couple of good young defensive players and serviceable guards.
That’s it. This is the worst Giants team I’ve ever seen from top to bottom.
They were undermanned today, but hung with Green Bay for a while. I thought guys on both sides made good plays today, despite the schemes on both sides putting them at a disadvantage.
There's a name for this disease, it's called Overly Optimistic Knicksfanitis - that's where the fan misjudges the opposing team's lack of respect for your team and subsequent initial playing down to their level. It's easily diagnosed by watching for the moment where the opposing team figures 'ok, break time is over, time to put this thing away' - which usually happens in the early to mid third quarter.
They were undermanned today, but hung with Green Bay for a while. I thought guys on both sides made good plays today, despite the schemes on both sides putting them at a disadvantage.
They only hung with Green Bay because Green Bay was shooting themselves in the foot on defense. Once they adjusted it was all she wrote.
I think there are some pieces that can be built around. Â
We have a RB, QB, 3 good receivers when healthy. A good TE if he can stay in the field and a rookie TE that looks promising. 2 guards that can play. On D we have a young secondary with promise. Golden if resigned can play. Connect was a good pick. Peppers can play. We have a Good DT group if we change to a 4-3 again. The cupboard is not bare, but they need a lot of pieces.
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
But I think a solid core is there. A good off-season and they can look like a completely different team in 20.
The key will be getting the right coach.
What solid core? They are a total disaster at every key position outside of QB.
The core is Daniel Jones. That's it.
This. If we were to get rid of the Chris Mara/Gettleman/Shurmur regime along with all the scouts and bring in a new regime, I wouldn't be mad if they traded anyone on the roster. Even Barkley. And if they felt Burrow was better than Jones and wanted to Rosen Jones - I wouldn't feel too badly about it.
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
It's not that at all - people don't discount the effect that coaching has on players, in particular the scheme.
It's that this team doesn't execute on basic plays. Dropped passes, missed tackles, blown assignments. You need a coach to put guys in the right position, but at the same time good players who are poorly coached will at least flash on occasion. Right now, there's no evidence of that.
It's not just the coaching. It's a poorly assembled roster with some glaring weak points and some guys who just aren't very good. In addition, people are more wishful than realistic on the part that some of these players (in particular the later round picks) are going to play going forward.
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
It's not that at all - people don't discount the effect that coaching has on players, in particular the scheme.
It's that this team doesn't execute on basic plays. Dropped passes, missed tackles, blown assignments. You need a coach to put guys in the right position, but at the same time good players who are poorly coached will at least flash on occasion. Right now, there's no evidence of that.
It's not just the coaching. It's a poorly assembled roster with some glaring weak points and some guys who just aren't very good. In addition, people are more wishful than realistic on the part that some of these players (in particular the later round picks) are going to play going forward.
Losing affects trams physically and mentally. The question is, what is the main reason for them being this bad? Well, since players take time to progress, a young team will have plenty of mistakes, but you're looking for progression, other than Slayton there doesn't seem to be progression, in fact it looks like players have regressed. Shurmur is proven to be a poor coach, So he goes first in my opinion. Gettleman is still an incomplete to me since I want to see his roster with competent coaching. Now it could certainly be both, but I have seen more evidence of it being Shurmur Gettleman at this point.
i dont think the roster is as shit as everyone here does.
We have a very young team and there are some players who have shown the ability to contribute.
i think golden, connelly, peppers, lawerence and williams is a solid defense, but obviously we need more. chase young will be a huge addition here... i also think love, baker and beal could be nice players in time. they are in their first years(i know beal isnt, but this is his first real PT). i also dont think carter and ximenes will be bad as backup, rotational, situaional pass rushers with golden(resign) and young(draft)
i think on offense the OGs arent bad. barkley is very good. the WRs arent bad with shep, tate and slayton. I also like engram but he has had a hard time staying healthy.
to say you wouldnt care if everyone was gone except jones is insane. barkley is STILL a great player. the OL seriously has looked like dogshit this season. not really sure how they digressed, but it seems they have.
RE: I think there are some pieces that can be built around. Â
We have a RB, QB, 3 good receivers when healthy. A good TE if he can stay in the field and a rookie TE that looks promising. 2 guards that can play. On D we have a young secondary with promise. Golden if resigned can play. Connect was a good pick. Peppers can play. We have a Good DT group if we change to a 4-3 again. The cupboard is not bare, but they need a lot of pieces.
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
I couldn’t agree more. This is not a bad roster. The team is very young; and the combination of the a poor coaching staff and a poor offensive line has a lot to do with poor play. I think Daniel Jones will be fine. Saquon Barkley will be fine. Slayton looks promising. Just fix the offensive line. On the defensive side, I think the DBs need to grow together. Right now, I think they are being schooled by the veterans. Only time will tell, but I have faith in the future of these DBs and they will learn. The DBs are also not helped by the lack of pass rush, which is horrendous. We need edge rusher’s. Chase Young would definitely help and a good start.
With Britt. I think we have our QB and running back. Our receivers are good enough but lacking a true number 1. Our guards are good enough but we need tackles and a center.
. I like our defense line.. IL’s are awful but I liked what I saw in Connell so we need to add another starter. I like golden and if some how we can add Young then with Carter we would have a good rotation. Peppers was playing well and we have 4 rookie DB’s that have real potential.. Betha is awful and Love is a wildcard to me.. it would be a huge plus if he could be out starting FS..
Coaching sucks and Shurmur wasn’t wrong when he said we were historical young but was dumb for saying it
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
the WRs are not below average at all.
also nobody is deflecting blame to shurmur. the dude did an end around to a practice squad player today....he ran penny on a 3rd and 1. the dude isnt a good
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
It's pretty simple - it's the 'Eli above the team crowd' - Gettleman can do no wrong in their eyes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold Shurmur accountable for the latest benching.
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
the WRs are not below average at all.
also nobody is deflecting blame to shurmur. the dude did an end around to a practice squad player today....he ran penny on a 3rd and 1. the dude isnt a good
No shit he’s not good- the coach is awful
The op claims he likes the roster- the roster sucks
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
It's pretty simple - it's the 'Eli above the team crowd' - Gettleman can do no wrong in their eyes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold Shurmur accountable for the latest benching.
Guessing on one's intentions isn't typically a good idea.
OL sucks. No pass rushers. Terrible safeties and LBs.
okay
1. golden is a solid rusher, he has NOTHING on the other end. that will change come april
2. connelly looked to be solid before the injury. him alongside lets say a guy like shobert(FA signing) would be really good.
3.OL does suck and this is going to be numer 1 thing to address this offseason after taking young in first
RE: RE: The reason Britt won’t throw DG under the bus as well Â
Now, I will say if we had competent coaching, we'd be better than 2 10.
Everything is broken.
Clean house.
And so is Shurmur but that doesnt change the fact...
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
Daniel Jones is the only thing the roster has. Everyone else if they were gone tomorrow I wouldn't give a fuck.
The key will be getting the right coach.
That being said, the roster is a disaster also.
We have no pass rushers and no young pass rushers with potential.
Same with both offensive tackle positions.
Same with the Center position.
Same with the linebacker position outside of Connelly.
All the young corners are huge question marks.
We need at least 1 legit WR1.
The tight ends are huge question marks (either bc of injury or talent)
The kicker has been awful
The safeties are dreadful.
We have a good young QB and RB. A good young WR. A couple of good young defensive players and serviceable guards.
That’s it. This is the worst Giants team I’ve ever seen from top to bottom.
There's a name for this disease, it's called Overly Optimistic Knicksfanitis - that's where the fan misjudges the opposing team's lack of respect for your team and subsequent initial playing down to their level. It's easily diagnosed by watching for the moment where the opposing team figures 'ok, break time is over, time to put this thing away' - which usually happens in the early to mid third quarter.
The key will be getting the right coach.
What solid core? They are a total disaster at every key position outside of QB.
The core is Daniel Jones. That's it.
The key will be getting the right coach.
What solid core?
Ogletree
Solder
Bethea
Mayo
Haley
are each the worst starters at their position in the league
They only hung with Green Bay because Green Bay was shooting themselves in the foot on defense. Once they adjusted it was all she wrote.
That's the kind of thing Gettleman will say to Mara to trick him into not firing him.
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
Quote:
But I think a solid core is there. A good off-season and they can look like a completely different team in 20.
The key will be getting the right coach.
What solid core? They are a total disaster at every key position outside of QB.
The core is Daniel Jones. That's it.
This. If we were to get rid of the Chris Mara/Gettleman/Shurmur regime along with all the scouts and bring in a new regime, I wouldn't be mad if they traded anyone on the roster. Even Barkley. And if they felt Burrow was better than Jones and wanted to Rosen Jones - I wouldn't feel too badly about it.
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
It's not that at all - people don't discount the effect that coaching has on players, in particular the scheme.
It's that this team doesn't execute on basic plays. Dropped passes, missed tackles, blown assignments. You need a coach to put guys in the right position, but at the same time good players who are poorly coached will at least flash on occasion. Right now, there's no evidence of that.
It's not just the coaching. It's a poorly assembled roster with some glaring weak points and some guys who just aren't very good. In addition, people are more wishful than realistic on the part that some of these players (in particular the later round picks) are going to play going forward.
So Mr's Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?
Quote:
But I think a solid core is there. A good off-season and they can look like a completely different team in 20.
The key will be getting the right coach.
What solid core? They are a total disaster at every key position outside of QB.
The core is Daniel Jones. That's it.
People said the exact same shit about the 49ers. The two highly drafted DL were busts. The roster sucks, etc.
Until they got the right coach and pulled it all together with Bosa and a few key acquisitions.
The Giants DL has talent to build around.
The secondary has young players who have flashed. I think they’ll better with a coach who isn’t dead set on running a shitty zone every 3rd down.
The QB is a player. The RB is a player. The WRs are solid.
They need star power rushing the passer and OL help. Both can be accomplished this off-season.
The right coach and a good off-season can win the division next year. Dallas and Philly are declining.
This is an exciting time. Everything that needs to happen is happening for the Giants to right the ship long term.
Blaming Shurmur is a defense mechanism.
Quote:
A lot of fans feel that coaching has much impact on the players. Just how bad can a bad coaching staff make a roster (a young roster at that) look? How much does the coaching cloud the picture on what players you have?
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
It's not that at all - people don't discount the effect that coaching has on players, in particular the scheme.
It's that this team doesn't execute on basic plays. Dropped passes, missed tackles, blown assignments. You need a coach to put guys in the right position, but at the same time good players who are poorly coached will at least flash on occasion. Right now, there's no evidence of that.
It's not just the coaching. It's a poorly assembled roster with some glaring weak points and some guys who just aren't very good. In addition, people are more wishful than realistic on the part that some of these players (in particular the later round picks) are going to play going forward.
Losing affects trams physically and mentally. The question is, what is the main reason for them being this bad? Well, since players take time to progress, a young team will have plenty of mistakes, but you're looking for progression, other than Slayton there doesn't seem to be progression, in fact it looks like players have regressed. Shurmur is proven to be a poor coach, So he goes first in my opinion. Gettleman is still an incomplete to me since I want to see his roster with competent coaching. Now it could certainly be both, but I have seen more evidence of it being Shurmur Gettleman at this point.
We have a very young team and there are some players who have shown the ability to contribute.
i think golden, connelly, peppers, lawerence and williams is a solid defense, but obviously we need more. chase young will be a huge addition here... i also think love, baker and beal could be nice players in time. they are in their first years(i know beal isnt, but this is his first real PT). i also dont think carter and ximenes will be bad as backup, rotational, situaional pass rushers with golden(resign) and young(draft)
i think on offense the OGs arent bad. barkley is very good. the WRs arent bad with shep, tate and slayton. I also like engram but he has had a hard time staying healthy.
to say you wouldnt care if everyone was gone except jones is insane. barkley is STILL a great player. the OL seriously has looked like dogshit this season. not really sure how they digressed, but it seems they have.
Yeah, that's how I see it as well.
I personally think coaching impacts the players a lot.
I couldn’t agree more. This is not a bad roster. The team is very young; and the combination of the a poor coaching staff and a poor offensive line has a lot to do with poor play. I think Daniel Jones will be fine. Saquon Barkley will be fine. Slayton looks promising. Just fix the offensive line. On the defensive side, I think the DBs need to grow together. Right now, I think they are being schooled by the veterans. Only time will tell, but I have faith in the future of these DBs and they will learn. The DBs are also not helped by the lack of pass rush, which is horrendous. We need edge rusher’s. Chase Young would definitely help and a good start.
. I like our defense line.. IL’s are awful but I liked what I saw in Connell so we need to add another starter. I like golden and if some how we can add Young then with Carter we would have a good rotation. Peppers was playing well and we have 4 rookie DB’s that have real potential.. Betha is awful and Love is a wildcard to me.. it would be a huge plus if he could be out starting FS..
Coaching sucks and Shurmur wasn’t wrong when he said we were historical young but was dumb for saying it
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
My point is a poor coaching staff makes it all the more difficult to judge the players value.
This roster is pure trash.
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
the WRs are not below average at all.
also nobody is deflecting blame to shurmur. the dude did an end around to a practice squad player today....he ran penny on a 3rd and 1. the dude isnt a good
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
It's pretty simple - it's the 'Eli above the team crowd' - Gettleman can do no wrong in their eyes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold Shurmur accountable for the latest benching.
Quote:
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
the WRs are not below average at all.
also nobody is deflecting blame to shurmur. the dude did an end around to a practice squad player today....he ran penny on a 3rd and 1. the dude isnt a good
No shit he’s not good- the coach is awful
The op claims he likes the roster- the roster sucks
Quote:
OL? Awful
WRs- below average
Linebackers- Awful
Qb/rb - sure- you would hope so given the 2nd and 6th pick used
DL- solid
Secondary- at least this unit is young and one can hope -
But still a poor group
The coach is not good but the GM gave him a shitburger to work with
It’s like because we have found a qb and a few guys to root for that we just deflect all negativity to the coach because it makes us feel better?
It's pretty simple - it's the 'Eli above the team crowd' - Gettleman can do no wrong in their eyes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold Shurmur accountable for the latest benching.
Guessing on one's intentions isn't typically a good idea.
Wrong about what?
The difference between me and a lot of you is that I didn't have my mind made up on Gettleman from day one.
okay
1. golden is a solid rusher, he has NOTHING on the other end. that will change come april
2. connelly looked to be solid before the injury. him alongside lets say a guy like shobert(FA signing) would be really good.
3.OL does suck and this is going to be numer 1 thing to address this offseason after taking young in first
Quote:
Is because that would be admitting he was wrong about a bunch of things.
Wrong about what?
The difference between me and a lot of you is that I didn't have my mind made up on Gettleman from day one.
You apparently did have your mind made up about him from day one if you still like the roster.
Again, what's to like about the roster. They have a few decent players? They certainly should picking as high as they have for a number of years.
Every roster in the NFL has a few players.
Let's hear what you like about this roster.