everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
You said the Giants are a team of jags, which includes players in their first year. I am not sure why you felt compelled to reply with snark.
RE: RE: RE: That's a recurring theme to your thinking Britt Â
everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
Quote:
Alec Ogletree led the Giants and all NFL linebackers with five interceptions in 2018. He was the only player in the league to score twice on interception returns and is the only linebacker in Giants history to score two touchdowns on interceptions in a season.
I'm willing to give Ogletree another season, hopefully a move back to the 4-3, and some pieces around him before I make my judgement.
RE: For a failure this colossal the guy who hired him Â
It stinks
The WRs are DGs- they aren’t good
The Secondary is DGs - it’s not good - but at least it’s young
The linebackers are DGs- they stink
The coaching staff is DGs- it stinks
In summary - he stinks - it’s his own shitburger- he should own it- he likely won’t - let’s hope they get lucky in the offseason hitting on coach and picks and signings
we need A LOT of guys. That's the situation we were left with, which Dave Gettlman walked into. A LOT of guys were needed.
We're still putting them together. Some are good, some will just be depth, but it takes 53 guys to build a roster and we're working on putting it together still.
But there are guys that are emerging and guys that we hope will emerge. And we will keep adding to it.
A LOT of guys were needed because Gettleman blew the self-assessment of this team in the very worst way.
He went half-hearted at first, signing some throwaway FAs in an attempt to compete in year 1, before realizing how in over his head he was and cleaning house. He went for a scorched earth rebuild that had him trade away just about anything worth half a damn. Then, he stuck with a QB who had obviously lost a step, and retained him at a pretty penny.
He took the resources he obtained in the tear down and put together an incomplete roster with replacements who weren't as good as the guys he was moving on from in the first place.
Again - worth mentioning, that the team was 11-5 in 2016.
Had they bothered interviewing a few GM candidates, the Giants brass might have had some other opinions on what needed to be done to base their next steps on. Instead, they went for a token outsider (Riddick) and the obvious hire in Gettleman. What followed next should surprise no one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: That's a recurring theme to your thinking Britt Â
everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
You said the Giants are a team of jags, which includes players in their first year. I am not sure why you felt compelled to reply with snark.
Sorry, but you picked an odd post to reply to if that was your point.
Maybe the rookies aren't JAGs - right now, they're not even playing to the level of JAGs, with the exception of Jones and Slayton they're not even playing like pro football players. If the assertion is that Gettleman deserves more time simply because he has a lot of rookies playing, I'd suggest that it was his stupid idea to nuke the team in the first place and end up in that scenario.
we need A LOT of guys. That's the situation we were left with, which Dave Gettlman walked into. A LOT of guys were needed.
We're still putting them together. Some are good, some will just be depth, but it takes 53 guys to build a roster and we're working on putting it together still.
But there are guys that are emerging and guys that we hope will emerge. And we will keep adding to it.
A LOT of guys were needed because Gettleman blew the self-assessment of this team in the very worst way.
He went half-hearted at first, signing some throwaway FAs in an attempt to compete in year 1, before realizing how in over his head he was and cleaning house. He went for a scorched earth rebuild that had him trade away just about anything worth half a damn. Then, he stuck with a QB who had obviously lost a step, and retained him at a pretty penny.
He took the resources he obtained in the tear down and put together an incomplete roster with replacements who weren't as good as the guys he was moving on from in the first place.
Again - worth mentioning, that the team was 11-5 in 2016.
Had they bothered interviewing a few GM candidates, the Giants brass might have had some other opinions on what needed to be done to base their next steps on. Instead, they went for a token outsider (Riddick) and the obvious hire in Gettleman. What followed next should surprise no one.
Which GM candidates? Dorsey?
They actually asked to interview Dorsey because it was too late Â
their emotions for a second will say there is talent on this roster. Now are theses players they can win with? Who the hell knows? The coaching is so bad it’s impossible to know
you could also say the talent gap is so wide that it's difficult to evaluate the coaching.
It’s a mess in reality. But there are a good number of players who appear to be talented, not being out in position to succeed either because of scheme or fundamentals. That’s on the coaches. When Carl Banks points out in post game that the same mistakes are being made 11 games in - it’s a coaching issue. Gettleman May also need to go, but that’s far from clear.
Unfortunately, the problems run deeper than that. I have no idea how bad DG is after a short stint in Carolina and 2 years here, but I've seen enough mistakes to feel confident that he isn't very good. The Leonard Williams deal was it for me, you guys are free to see it another way. However I see no reason to hire a new coach with a lame duck 68 year old GM with a thin resume at the helm. It's taking the easy way out, which seems to be the pattern the Giants have exhibited over the last decade so it's most likely the way they proceed. I'm ok with fans being overly optimistic about the Giants roster, I'm just sick of Giants brass operating like optimistic fans. They won't get out of this hole until they do.
that I like a decent amount of players on the roster, and think they are pieces to build around.
50% of the posters on this thread seemed to understand that right away without clarification.
Got it. Above you listed 16 players. Would it be fair to say those are the players you think are the pieces to build around?
And if so, is it fair to say then you don't like the other 2/3 of the roster?
On offense you didn't list 3/5 of the starting offensive line, you didn't list the top 2 TEs, you didn't list one of the starting WRs.
On defense you didn't list the starting defensive tackle, you didn't one of the starting outside linebackers, the starting free safety, one of the starting corners, or the slot corner.
It kind of seems like you think there are some good players and some young players, but that the Giants need about 10 new starters.
They were undermanned today, but hung with Green Bay for a while. I thought guys on both sides made good plays today, despite the schemes on both sides putting them at a disadvantage.
This logic is so twisted and flawed. Normally when a team is undermanned and "hung in" you chalk that up to GOOD coaching. Instead they are undermanned (enough for them to lose by anyone's estimation) and the SCHEMES are holding them back.
Get a grip. You are so hopelessly hopeful that things are better than they actually are that you will push whatever narrative minimizes our problems the most and gets us to competing quickest no matter how foolishly optimistic.
In case you haven't been watching all this the only common thread in this shitty run we've been having is fans saying things like "it's just Reese or MacAdoo or TC" or "DG overhauled our whole scouting system" one or two sacrificial lambs the bad eggs you know causing all the problems. Guess what. Problems have gotten worse despite us rooting out the bad eggs so bravely.
You like the roster? Great. Why should anyone care about that? This nonsense post i'm responding to shows how far you will go. This is all Shurmur's fault? What an original and non-Giants front office propaganda serving thought!
get your eyes or head checked if you “like” this team though. Also it should be very clear to everyone at this point we need major changes so yeah people like you attempting to fall over themselves to make this rosier aren’t helping.
yeah, I said the coach was a bum and needed to be fired tomorrow. Â
I actually care less and less about the team because I don’t have high expectations of this turning around soon.
I don’t think people like you should be spouting BS about this roster being any good and increasing the probability that fans don’t demand change. People like you are acting like there are two perspectives one where this isn’t a complete mess top to bottom and one where Shurmur is the issue and when we get new coaches this roster will show us it’s talent!
Also I get why Giants management wants to push this narrative that Shurmur is preventing this roster from showing what is can really do. They don’t want to have to commit to real change at the top. What’s in it for you?
It stinks
The WRs are DGs- they aren’t good
The Secondary is DGs - it’s not good - but at least it’s young
The linebackers are DGs- they stink
The coaching staff is DGs- it stinks
In summary - he stinks - it’s his own shitburger- he should own it- he likely won’t - let’s hope they get lucky in the offseason hitting on coach and picks and signings
This
The coaching on this team is so bad that Saquon Barkley rarely Â
flashes. Think about that for a second. If he can't, why are even solid NFL players going to flash. I've rewatched the all 22 on 4 different games and I came away with the same impression each time. Is PS trying to make it harder on his players to succeed purposely? He leaves me scratching my head all the time.
People are cut out for being the boss while others are more suited to be a worker bee. Shurmur is in the latter camp. He’s a good coordinator but a mess as a manager.
Every game I look at this team and say they can't be that bad. A lot of these guys are either 1) guys who had success other places ,or 2) young guys with talent who are improving.
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
Every game I look at this team and say they can't be that bad. A lot of these guys are either 1) guys who had success other places ,or 2) young guys with talent who are improving.
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
The motivation sucks? Weren't these the 'good players' - the ones with the right 'culture'? You know, the ones Gettleman described as 'hating to lose'?
Do they only hate to lose when they're properly motivated? If so, maybe they need additional criteria for their draft picks? In addition to 'hates to lose', add 'self-starter'.
I'm sorry you think everybody should be an all pro at every position, but that's not the reality of building an NFL roster. Maybe that's the disconnect here.
You repeating I think there should be an All Pro at every position isn't going to magically make it something I've said. That's a weird, nonsensical thing to repeat.
Coming into today the Giants:
- Had one player in the top 50 in the NFL in catches - TE Evan Engram
- The highest WR was 70th - Golden Tate
- The Giants didn't have a WR in the top 60 in yards, Slayton and Tate were both lower than 60th
- At 48th in the league, Slayton leads the Giants in yards per target
The Giants have fragile WR in Shepard, an aging reliable but inefficient player in Tate, and a rookie with upside in Slayton.
Latimer is a fringe NFL player who's a risk to not be in the league.
Some fans are just blinded by complete big blue homerism. This roster stinks and they need to make big moves in FA and get some good damn draft picks or we'll suck again next year. Thus the roster sucks. It needs an infusion of big time talent. Without making some huge FA moves and getting an impact player like Young-- this team will stink again next year.
However I believe they can make the moves to be decent next year but I have extremely low confidence in the GM that he is capable of doing so. He needs to hit on quite a few FA's instead of going about his usual more-than-likely blundering. .
Every game I look at this team and say they can't be that bad. A lot of these guys are either 1) guys who had success other places ,or 2) young guys with talent who are improving.
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
The motivation sucks? Weren't these the 'good players' - the ones with the right 'culture'? You know, the ones Gettleman described as 'hating to lose'?
Do they only hate to lose when they're properly motivated? If so, maybe they need additional criteria for their draft picks? In addition to 'hates to lose', add 'self-starter'.
Is controversial, since you can ultimately find several players to like on every roster in the league.
I don't see how it paints us as being in a good situation, however.
I think that's the issue though - it's not 'are there any good players on this roster' - he "likes" the roster (in totality) and thinks the coach is a bum (to blame for the poor performance).
There's enough blame to go around on this one. The easiest explanation for a team that should be tied for the worst in the league is that both the players and the coaches suck.
is the implication that this some aspects of the Giants are going well, and that all that's required is for Shurmur to be excised like a problematic cyst on an otherwise healthy body. I read it as, "Once we replace Shurmur this project can continue to move forward."
Jones
Barkley
Hernandez
Zeitler
Slayton
Shephard
Latimer
Smith (rookie TE)
Lawrence
Williams
Golden
Ximines
Connolly
Ogletree
Baker
Peppers
I like the way these guys play and I think there is a young core to build around there.
Britt, the following guys on your list are not starters for a competitive team..
Zeitler
Latimer
Smith
Ximines
Ogletree
Baker
Oh come on...
1) Not all of those guys have to be starters, they can simply be promising players who provide adequate depth on winning team.
2) Zeitler up until this year was considered borderline pro bowl material. Even if he is not playing well I don't give up on him. He has proven that he can be starting-caliber OL in the NFL and that is hard to find these days. I say look at other factors (i.e. Shurmur, Hal Hunter, the rest of the OL, the culture in general, etc.) as reasons for Zeitler's poor play before just writing him off as a pure bust all of a sudden.
3) Ximines and Baker are rookies. I don't think we can write them off so quickly either. Ximines has flashed at times. And Baker was a 1st round pick and his primary strength is man coverage and Bettcher has him playing a lot of zone and he's struggling in his first year in the NFL. I think both of those guys could go on to be quality starters in the right scheme, with the right coaching staff, the right supporting cast, etc. We can't write the book on these young guys just yet, they could very well go to another team and become an all-pro (we've seen that happen before with players leaving bad Giants teams).
Quote:
In comment 14698126 jcn56 said:
Quote:
everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
You said the Giants are a team of jags, which includes players in their first year. I am not sure why you felt compelled to reply with snark.
Quote:
In comment 14698126 jcn56 said:
Quote:
everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
I'm willing to give Ogletree another season, hopefully a move back to the 4-3, and some pieces around him before I make my judgement.
I agree.
The WRs are DGs- they aren’t good
The Secondary is DGs - it’s not good - but at least it’s young
The linebackers are DGs- they stink
The coaching staff is DGs- it stinks
In summary - he stinks - it’s his own shitburger- he should own it- he likely won’t - let’s hope they get lucky in the offseason hitting on coach and picks and signings
We're still putting them together. Some are good, some will just be depth, but it takes 53 guys to build a roster and we're working on putting it together still.
But there are guys that are emerging and guys that we hope will emerge. And we will keep adding to it.
A LOT of guys were needed because Gettleman blew the self-assessment of this team in the very worst way.
He went half-hearted at first, signing some throwaway FAs in an attempt to compete in year 1, before realizing how in over his head he was and cleaning house. He went for a scorched earth rebuild that had him trade away just about anything worth half a damn. Then, he stuck with a QB who had obviously lost a step, and retained him at a pretty penny.
He took the resources he obtained in the tear down and put together an incomplete roster with replacements who weren't as good as the guys he was moving on from in the first place.
Again - worth mentioning, that the team was 11-5 in 2016.
Had they bothered interviewing a few GM candidates, the Giants brass might have had some other opinions on what needed to be done to base their next steps on. Instead, they went for a token outsider (Riddick) and the obvious hire in Gettleman. What followed next should surprise no one.
Quote:
In comment 14698135 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14698126 jcn56 said:
Quote:
everyone can't be an individual contributor, a finishing piece.
Yes, every NFL roster has a bunch of JAGs. You can't have an entire roster full of them. Right now, that's the Giants to a T.
Ogletree was on a good D with solid coaching - who thought it was time to move on from him. He's not making the Giants any better, and having low expectations from him at that cost is part of their problem.
Jcn, it doesn't take you long to see a player's ceiling.
You're right, there's just not enough out there on Ogletree to figure he's overpaid and not very good. Let's give him another 5 years.
You said the Giants are a team of jags, which includes players in their first year. I am not sure why you felt compelled to reply with snark.
Sorry, but you picked an odd post to reply to if that was your point.
Maybe the rookies aren't JAGs - right now, they're not even playing to the level of JAGs, with the exception of Jones and Slayton they're not even playing like pro football players. If the assertion is that Gettleman deserves more time simply because he has a lot of rookies playing, I'd suggest that it was his stupid idea to nuke the team in the first place and end up in that scenario.
This probably should be an 7-8 win team with the right coaching staff and game plan.
Quote:
we need A LOT of guys. That's the situation we were left with, which Dave Gettlman walked into. A LOT of guys were needed.
We're still putting them together. Some are good, some will just be depth, but it takes 53 guys to build a roster and we're working on putting it together still.
But there are guys that are emerging and guys that we hope will emerge. And we will keep adding to it.
A LOT of guys were needed because Gettleman blew the self-assessment of this team in the very worst way.
He went half-hearted at first, signing some throwaway FAs in an attempt to compete in year 1, before realizing how in over his head he was and cleaning house. He went for a scorched earth rebuild that had him trade away just about anything worth half a damn. Then, he stuck with a QB who had obviously lost a step, and retained him at a pretty penny.
He took the resources he obtained in the tear down and put together an incomplete roster with replacements who weren't as good as the guys he was moving on from in the first place.
Again - worth mentioning, that the team was 11-5 in 2016.
Had they bothered interviewing a few GM candidates, the Giants brass might have had some other opinions on what needed to be done to base their next steps on. Instead, they went for a token outsider (Riddick) and the obvious hire in Gettleman. What followed next should surprise no one.
Which GM candidates? Dorsey?
C'mon now.
OK - now that makes sense.
Confirmation Bias is one thing
This is Confirmation Blindness
Barkley
Hernandez
Zeitler
Slayton
Shephard
Latimer
Smith (rookie TE)
Lawrence
Williams
Golden
Ximines
Connolly
Ogletree
Baker
Peppers
I like the way these guys play and I think there is a young core to build around there.
Britt, the following guys on your list are not starters for a competitive team..
Zeitler
Latimer
Smith
Ximines
Ogletree
Baker
Quote:
Jones
Barkley
Hernandez
Zeitler
Slayton
Shephard
Latimer
Smith (rookie TE)
Lawrence
Williams
Golden
Ximines
Connolly
Ogletree
Baker
Peppers
I like the way these guys play and I think there is a young core to build around there.
Britt, the following guys on your list are not starters for a competitive team..
Zeitler
Latimer
Smith
Ximines
Ogletree
Baker
Who said they have to be starters?
you could also say the talent gap is so wide that it's difficult to evaluate the coaching.
Does that mean the roster is a coach away from competing for the playoffs? One off season and a new coach from competing for the playoffs?
Does that mean the roster is a coach away from competing for the playoffs? One off season and a new coach from competing for the playoffs?
Maybe. Who knows, but we do know that can actually happen.
We have a rookie QB who is growing less and less promising each week.
We have a RB who essentially produces nothing anymore but a few cool runs per game.
Our TE spends more time off the field than on.
Our OL vacillates between putrid and ordinary.
Our WRs looks like a decent group.
DEFENSE
We have a thousand DTs who flash once in a while. And we just wasted draft picks, and ultimately $15M per year in cap space, on another one who
We have one competent edge rusher. The rest are ALL complete question marks.
As a group, we have the worst LBs in the NFL.
We have one competent, professional corner.
We have one competent safety.
SPECIALS
We have a place-kicker who has become an average kicker.
We have a nice punter.
We have zero impact return guys.
DEPTH
There is none.
CONCLUSION
The roster is the complete opposite of something to like.
We have a rookie QB who is growing less and less promising each week.
We have a RB who essentially produces nothing anymore but a few cool runs per game.
Our TE spends more time off the field than on.
Our OL vacillates between putrid and ordinary.
Our WRs looks like a decent group.
DEFENSE
We have a thousand DTs who flash once in a while. And we just wasted draft picks, and ultimately $15M per year in cap space, on another one who
We have one competent edge rusher. The rest are ALL complete question marks.
As a group, we have the worst LBs in the NFL.
We have one competent, professional corner.
We have one competent safety.
SPECIALS
We have a place-kicker who has become an average kicker.
We have a nice punter.
We have zero impact return guys.
DEPTH
There is none.
CONCLUSION
The roster is the complete opposite of something to like.
Didn't read past your first line. Get lost.
Yeah, that's right. That's how I know it was time for him to go. Do you see me advocating for Shurmer to stay?
Quote:
What does liking a roster actually mean?
Does that mean the roster is a coach away from competing for the playoffs? One off season and a new coach from competing for the playoffs?
Maybe. Who knows, but we do know that can actually happen.
So what do you actually mean when you say you like the roster?
50% of the posters on this thread seemed to understand that right away without clarification.
50% of the posters on this thread seemed to understand that right away without clarification.
Got it. Above you listed 16 players. Would it be fair to say those are the players you think are the pieces to build around?
And if so, is it fair to say then you don't like the other 2/3 of the roster?
On offense you didn't list 3/5 of the starting offensive line, you didn't list the top 2 TEs, you didn't list one of the starting WRs.
On defense you didn't list the starting defensive tackle, you didn't one of the starting outside linebackers, the starting free safety, one of the starting corners, or the slot corner.
It kind of seems like you think there are some good players and some young players, but that the Giants need about 10 new starters.
This logic is so twisted and flawed. Normally when a team is undermanned and "hung in" you chalk that up to GOOD coaching. Instead they are undermanned (enough for them to lose by anyone's estimation) and the SCHEMES are holding them back.
Get a grip. You are so hopelessly hopeful that things are better than they actually are that you will push whatever narrative minimizes our problems the most and gets us to competing quickest no matter how foolishly optimistic.
In case you haven't been watching all this the only common thread in this shitty run we've been having is fans saying things like "it's just Reese or MacAdoo or TC" or "DG overhauled our whole scouting system" one or two sacrificial lambs the bad eggs you know causing all the problems. Guess what. Problems have gotten worse despite us rooting out the bad eggs so bravely.
You like the roster? Great. Why should anyone care about that? This nonsense post i'm responding to shows how far you will go. This is all Shurmur's fault? What an original and non-Giants front office propaganda serving thought!
RAH!
RAHHHHHHHHHH!
I don’t think people like you should be spouting BS about this roster being any good and increasing the probability that fans don’t demand change. People like you are acting like there are two perspectives one where this isn’t a complete mess top to bottom and one where Shurmur is the issue and when we get new coaches this roster will show us it’s talent!
Also I get why Giants management wants to push this narrative that Shurmur is preventing this roster from showing what is can really do. They don’t want to have to commit to real change at the top. What’s in it for you?
The WRs are DGs- they aren’t good
The Secondary is DGs - it’s not good - but at least it’s young
The linebackers are DGs- they stink
The coaching staff is DGs- it stinks
In summary - he stinks - it’s his own shitburger- he should own it- he likely won’t - let’s hope they get lucky in the offseason hitting on coach and picks and signings
This
The roster is garbage.
The franchise is garbage.
The roster is garbage.
The franchise is garbage.
So you're sayong you actually don't like the roster?
We have a rookie QB who is growing less and less promising each week.
We have a RB who essentially produces nothing anymore but a few cool runs per game.
Our TE spends more time off the field than on.
Our OL vacillates between putrid and ordinary.
Our WRs looks like a decent group.
DEFENSE
We have a thousand DTs who flash once in a while. And we just wasted draft picks, and ultimately $15M per year in cap space, on another one who
We have one competent edge rusher. The rest are ALL complete question marks.
As a group, we have the worst LBs in the NFL.
We have one competent, professional corner.
We have one competent safety.
SPECIALS
We have a place-kicker who has become an average kicker.
We have a nice punter.
We have zero impact return guys.
DEPTH
There is none.
CONCLUSION
The roster is the complete opposite of something to like.
This assessment is somewhat optimistic, overlooking the fact that the one pass rusher the team does have isn't under contract next year.
Lol, I kid. If you read Britt's follow ups it actually reads as if he doesn't either.
Offense
Jones
Barkley
Slayton
Hernandez
Shepherd
Zeitler
Smith (looks promising)
Even (if he is still here)
Tate
Upgrade the OT's and center and there are weapons
Defense
D-line looks solid
Secondary is very young and could be good in time
Connelly looks like he could be good
Add a couple pass rushers this d could be good next year
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
The motivation sucks? Weren't these the 'good players' - the ones with the right 'culture'? You know, the ones Gettleman described as 'hating to lose'?
Do they only hate to lose when they're properly motivated? If so, maybe they need additional criteria for their draft picks? In addition to 'hates to lose', add 'self-starter'.
This probably should be an 7-8 win team with the right coaching staff and game plan.
No way 7 win team. You're dreaming. eight is laughable.
Quote:
I'm sorry you think everybody should be an all pro at every position, but that's not the reality of building an NFL roster. Maybe that's the disconnect here.
You repeating I think there should be an All Pro at every position isn't going to magically make it something I've said. That's a weird, nonsensical thing to repeat.
Coming into today the Giants:
- Had one player in the top 50 in the NFL in catches - TE Evan Engram
- The highest WR was 70th - Golden Tate
- The Giants didn't have a WR in the top 60 in yards, Slayton and Tate were both lower than 60th
- At 48th in the league, Slayton leads the Giants in yards per target
The Giants have fragile WR in Shepard, an aging reliable but inefficient player in Tate, and a rookie with upside in Slayton.
Latimer is a fringe NFL player who's a risk to not be in the league.
Some fans are just blinded by complete big blue homerism. This roster stinks and they need to make big moves in FA and get some good damn draft picks or we'll suck again next year. Thus the roster sucks. It needs an infusion of big time talent. Without making some huge FA moves and getting an impact player like Young-- this team will stink again next year.
However I believe they can make the moves to be decent next year but I have extremely low confidence in the GM that he is capable of doing so. He needs to hit on quite a few FA's instead of going about his usual more-than-likely blundering. .
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Every game I look at this team and say they can't be that bad. A lot of these guys are either 1) guys who had success other places ,or 2) young guys with talent who are improving.
Our schemes suck, our motivation sucks, and we are continually putting players in the wrong positions to succeed. We are always outcoached.
The motivation sucks? Weren't these the 'good players' - the ones with the right 'culture'? You know, the ones Gettleman described as 'hating to lose'?
Do they only hate to lose when they're properly motivated? If so, maybe they need additional criteria for their draft picks? In addition to 'hates to lose', add 'self-starter'.
That dude is another cheerleading poster.
I don't see how it paints us as being in a good situation, however.
I don't see how it paints us as being in a good situation, however.
I think that's the issue though - it's not 'are there any good players on this roster' - he "likes" the roster (in totality) and thinks the coach is a bum (to blame for the poor performance).
There's enough blame to go around on this one. The easiest explanation for a team that should be tied for the worst in the league is that both the players and the coaches suck.
No.
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Jones
Barkley
Hernandez
Zeitler
Slayton
Shephard
Latimer
Smith (rookie TE)
Lawrence
Williams
Golden
Ximines
Connolly
Ogletree
Baker
Peppers
I like the way these guys play and I think there is a young core to build around there.
Britt, the following guys on your list are not starters for a competitive team..
Zeitler
Latimer
Smith
Ximines
Ogletree
Baker
Oh come on...
1) Not all of those guys have to be starters, they can simply be promising players who provide adequate depth on winning team.
2) Zeitler up until this year was considered borderline pro bowl material. Even if he is not playing well I don't give up on him. He has proven that he can be starting-caliber OL in the NFL and that is hard to find these days. I say look at other factors (i.e. Shurmur, Hal Hunter, the rest of the OL, the culture in general, etc.) as reasons for Zeitler's poor play before just writing him off as a pure bust all of a sudden.
3) Ximines and Baker are rookies. I don't think we can write them off so quickly either. Ximines has flashed at times. And Baker was a 1st round pick and his primary strength is man coverage and Bettcher has him playing a lot of zone and he's struggling in his first year in the NFL. I think both of those guys could go on to be quality starters in the right scheme, with the right coaching staff, the right supporting cast, etc. We can't write the book on these young guys just yet, they could very well go to another team and become an all-pro (we've seen that happen before with players leaving bad Giants teams).