We all know what the general narrative has been:
On a bad team, he has shown a lot of positive signs to give us confidence the Giants have their QB of the future.
But compared to what he showed in training camp, pre-season and his very first start down in Tampa, he has dampened that early enthusiasm quite a lot, and has left open the question:
Will he be a real difference-maker under Center, or a decent game manager so long as he has a strong supporting cast? Or, something else?
Bottom line: So far, he is NOT the phenom we were all drooling over (along with the media) 3-4 months ago, and whether or not he ever becomes one is very much up in the air (no pun intended.)
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Few yards per pass, lots of negative plays and turnovers, the offense struggles to get past 20 points, and he's lost 8 out of 10 starts.
It's basically the same level of performance that got Eli benched.
There are some things to like, but the numbers are what they are. To paint them in a good light requires a lot of rationalizing and excuses.
JFC. I think you're almost hoping he fails so you're right.
If Jones fails I'll be wrong. I thought he was the best QB in his draft, and I wanted him starting from the get go.
But there's rooting for the guy, and going where the facts take you. I'm rooting for the guy, but the facts tell me he isn't playing well.
Yeah he's a rookie, but the Giants are going to be in a situation where drafting Joe Burrow may be an option, and (hopefully) a new regime will be making that decision.
To me the key question is this: had Jones's been good enough for the Giants to discount drafting Burrow at #1 or #2 overall? I think the answer to that question is no.
25, 51, 73, 29, 49, 29, 24, 27.
50 is considered league average.
Last 8 YPA:
6.5, 4.2, 7.7, 5.1, 7.9, 6.4, 5.2, 4.8.
7.5+ is where you want to be.
So the trend line is much more bearish right now...
YPA is no way to judge a rookie quarterback in this situation. Take a look at his intended air yards per attempt. It’s very low. That’s a function of playcalling, protection and skill position players.
I won’t address QBR because it’s a flawed stat and he’s at around 50. Higher than Darnold and Allen in his first year.
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In comment 14698285 Go Terps said:
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Few yards per pass, lots of negative plays and turnovers, the offense struggles to get past 20 points, and he's lost 8 out of 10 starts.
It's basically the same level of performance that got Eli benched.
There are some things to like, but the numbers are what they are. To paint them in a good light requires a lot of rationalizing and excuses.
JFC. I think you're almost hoping he fails so you're right.
If Jones fails I'll be wrong. I thought he was the best QB in his draft, and I wanted him starting from the get go.
But there's rooting for the guy, and going where the facts take you. I'm rooting for the guy, but the facts tell me he isn't playing well.
Yeah he's a rookie, but the Giants are going to be in a situation where drafting Joe Burrow may be an option, and (hopefully) a new regime will be making that decision.
To me the key question is this: had Jones's been good enough for the Giants to discount drafting Burrow at #1 or #2 overall? I think the answer to that question is no.
There's no fighting the sunny outlook fans here have. They are behind Jones. logic be damned. I really don't know Burrows or how good he can be. Is he a Mahomes/Lamar-level talent? Then yes it is worth considering drafting him. I think it is unlikely Jones will reach that height. We haev a stubborn fan base that seems intent on winning the old fashioned way, the Eli way. Jones just might be good enough to do that. But I don't expect him to be a great QB, like Russell Wilson. There are many on here that did not view Wilson as a great QB coming into this season. But DJ they think can be special. They don't know what they are seeing. They just know they like their guy. Never mind that the stats say Wilson has been elite almost his entire career and Jones has been very up and down so far. They are irrationally sunny, and facts will not penetrate.
25, 51, 73, 29, 49, 29, 24, 27.
50 is considered league average.
Last 8 YPA:
6.5, 4.2, 7.7, 5.1, 7.9, 6.4, 5.2, 4.8.
7.5+ is where you want to be.
So the trend line is much more bearish right now...
Are you saying he has the time or even the play calls to throw it deeper but he doesn't do it?
what is strange about it? Eli was a solid, not elite QB, who won with a balanced team, great D, and a terrific playoff run, but not sublime and transcendent play. Wilson and Mahomes are game breaking QBs that play at elite levels. It would be better to have an elite QB than a good or very good QB. Jones looks like he might be good, but special, as Eric said, or elite, I think it is highly unlikely he reaches that level.
It's how Andy spews his anti-Giants hate. He's accusing the Giants of being racists.
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last 8 QBRs (most recent first):
25, 51, 73, 29, 49, 29, 24, 27.
50 is considered league average.
Last 8 YPA:
6.5, 4.2, 7.7, 5.1, 7.9, 6.4, 5.2, 4.8.
7.5+ is where you want to be.
So the trend line is much more bearish right now...
Are you saying he has the time or even the play calls to throw it deeper but he doesn't do it?
I'm just posting the numbers as they are recorded.
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And what does “the Eli way” mean and what does it have to do with Mahomes and Lamar Jackson? Really strange post...
what is strange about it? Eli was a solid, not elite QB, who won with a balanced team, great D, and a terrific playoff run, but not sublime and transcendent play. Wilson and Mahomes are game breaking QBs that play at elite levels. It would be better to have an elite QB than a good or very good QB. Jones looks like he might be good, but special, as Eric said, or elite, I think it is highly unlikely he reaches that level.
Because that isn’t what you said. Anyways, I’ll bite. Wilson is a great quarterback. He wasn’t always. He was drafted into an excellent situation and they were primarily a run-first team with an elite defense his first couple of seasons. He became elite as time went on. And yet, he’s got 1 ring. Mahomes and Jackson are young so we’ll have to wait and see how many they win. The great Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring too. Eli has two. So yes I’d prefer to win more championships than fewer.
In reality what that looks like is building a winning roster piece by piece instead of discarding a promising draft pick at QB to buy another lottery ticket until you know for sure what you have in Jones. Sell too soon and you could wind up doing what San Diego did when they discarded Brees for Rivers.
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And what does “the Eli way” mean and what does it have to do with Mahomes and Lamar Jackson? Really strange post...
It's how Andy spews his anti-Giants hate. He's accusing the Giants of being racists.
huh? no i'm not. I don't think the Giants are racist. Now that is a weird reply. I think the Giants are stuck in an outdated philosophy about QB play. A system QB over a next-level talent.
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In comment 14698345 bw in dc said:
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last 8 QBRs (most recent first):
25, 51, 73, 29, 49, 29, 24, 27.
50 is considered league average.
Last 8 YPA:
6.5, 4.2, 7.7, 5.1, 7.9, 6.4, 5.2, 4.8.
7.5+ is where you want to be.
So the trend line is much more bearish right now...
Are you saying he has the time or even the play calls to throw it deeper but he doesn't do it?
I'm just posting the numbers as they are recorded.
Just numbers but no opinion?
Anyone thinking he's going to be "special" is looking through rose-colored glasses. This is an era where teams are running variations of college offenses and winning with 3rd stringers. However anyone thinking we are going to cut bait because some new GM or coach has a fit of inspiration is giving in to their despair. There is no rational reason for doing so.
The jury is out on the guy; he does not seem to attract a lot of attention from opposing DC's (unlike Barkley) which should tell us something and given the attention going to Barkley, he should be doing better, but we'll see definitely when the supporting cast and coaching is stronger.
I would take Lawrence over Jones. Lawrence hasn't lost a game since his sophomore year in high school. His ceiling is higher. But we won't get him unless we're drafting #1 overall.
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In comment 14698398 Strahan91 said:
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And what does “the Eli way” mean and what does it have to do with Mahomes and Lamar Jackson? Really strange post...
what is strange about it? Eli was a solid, not elite QB, who won with a balanced team, great D, and a terrific playoff run, but not sublime and transcendent play. Wilson and Mahomes are game breaking QBs that play at elite levels. It would be better to have an elite QB than a good or very good QB. Jones looks like he might be good, but special, as Eric said, or elite, I think it is highly unlikely he reaches that level.
Because that isn’t what you said. Anyways, I’ll bite. Wilson is a great quarterback. He wasn’t always. He was drafted into an excellent situation and they were primarily a run-first team with an elite defense his first couple of seasons. He became elite as time went on. And yet, he’s got 1 ring. Mahomes and Jackson are young so we’ll have to wait and see how many they win. The great Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring too. Eli has two. So yes I’d prefer to win more championships than fewer.
In reality what that looks like is building a winning roster piece by piece instead of discarding a promising draft pick at QB to buy another lottery ticket until you know for sure what you have in Jones. Sell too soon and you could wind up doing what San Diego did when they discarded Brees for Rivers.
I can't pour over the stats right now but my view is that Wilson was good/great almost right away and has continued to improve. He has been elite for a few years now, often with less than ideal pieces. If Jones turns into Wilson I will be thrilled. I think there is a low probability of that, but maybe. I'm just saying if there is a true elite talent out there, they should consider it. They're in charge, and maybe they bring in someone that wants to design the team around Burrows. Is Burrows that kind of talent? I don't know I have only seen a little of him.
Anyone thinking he's going to be "special" is looking through rose-colored glasses. This is an era where teams are running variations of college offenses and winning with 3rd stringers. However anyone thinking we are going to cut bait because some new GM or coach has a fit of inspiration is giving in to their despair. There is no rational reason for doing so.
The jury is out on the guy; he does not seem to attract a lot of attention from opposing DC's (unlike Barkley) which should tell us something and given the attention going to Barkley, he should be doing better, but we'll see definitely when the supporting cast and coaching is stronger.
Barkley has faced a stacked box on a lower percentage of carries than most backs in the league. So teams can stop our run game without selling out to stop the run. That makes things very hard on a qb. No one is selling out to stop Barkley right now.
Just numbers but no opinion?
I think QBR is very useful - to a degree - and YPA also tells a story.
If those stats were more positive I imagine more posters would find them worthwhile. It's only when are players are < than benchmark that a concerted effort is made to attack the stats.
My concern for Jones is the turnovers and decision making right now. For as many points as he was producing, a lot of that is being offset by turnovers leading to points the other way.
His floor might be Jameis. That seems like a possible floor, I agree. Jameis is not a winning QB in this league. If I knew now he would be Jameis then I would say we have to look to move on.
the fumbling was the main issue and that was fixable.
shaky OLine, star rb missed most of the season as did many of his primary targets. and he's a rookie - you guys are friggin ridiculous
There's zero reason to believe Burrows would fare any better then Jones has to date in this city/organization and given that he was surrounded by a lot more talent, some reason for concern.
you can't win with Jameis. He is bad.
They are similar in that they are fearless, have similar traits and a have tendency to paint a scoreboard for both good and bad.
Unfortunately, Gettleman ain’t George Young, Shurmur ain’t Ray Perkins (let alone Parcells), and nobody is Lawrence Taylor.
He went on to Duke and was an average QB in the trashy ACC
He's a below average NFL QB as of now.
I don't see how and why people think he'll be anything great or anything close to it.
He's an average QB that has the potential to be average
If he played for any other team, we'd call him an overrated bust. But he plays for the team we love, so yall somehow see greatness
That's a feat of strength very few QB's in the country could accomplish. Haskins couldn't done it, neither could Murray.
Try again.
I don't know if intelligence is his problem. He is woefully inconsistent. He is not accurate. He makes the same mistakes over and over. He gets rattled at times and plays too fast. Yes, sometimes he looks fantastic. But he is not consistent enough to be an NFL starting QB. I do worry that Jones will be this kind of QB.
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In comment 14698285 Go Terps said:
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Few yards per pass, lots of negative plays and turnovers, the offense struggles to get past 20 points, and he's lost 8 out of 10 starts.
It's basically the same level of performance that got Eli benched.
There are some things to like, but the numbers are what they are. To paint them in a good light requires a lot of rationalizing and excuses.
JFC. I think you're almost hoping he fails so you're right.
Terps liked Jones before the draft and liked the pick when they made it (with the caveat that it came with Eli being cut). I remember that distinctly.
Yeah, me too. I don't know how many awful seasons it will take before Giants fans stop assigning bad motives to other Giants fans who are critical or wary of average-to-bad performers.
He went on to Duke and was an average QB in the trashy ACC
He's a below average NFL QB as of now.
I don't see how and why people think he'll be anything great or anything close to it.
He's an average QB that has the potential to be average
If he played for any other team, we'd call him an overrated bust. But he plays for the team we love, so yall somehow see greatness
they do see something "special" which is out of line with his overall performance so far. There have been flashes and some reasons for hope, but if there is an elite talent out there we should consider it.
That's a feat of strength very few QB's in the country could accomplish. Haskins couldn't done it, neither could Murray.
Try again.
Some of you are having a difficult time wrapping your heads around the "range of outcomes" concept.
There's the word narrative again. Crutch.
No one is saying he sucks, dump him. The question is whether a new regime should be given the freedom to look for someone else if they see fit.
If they want to move forward with Jones, that's fine too.
the fumbling was the main issue and that was fixable.
shaky OLine, star rb missed most of the season as did many of his primary targets. and he's a rookie - you guys are friggin ridiculous
Unfortunately, some of the people parading around BBI as "football geniuses" have no clue what rookie QBs look like.
Friggin ridiculous is the nicest way to put it.
Take Two: Well I have to give it to them. But now he should play every game of his rookie year. its the only way
Take Three: But Jints Central will never let him play.So cemented to Eli. Gettleman will never let him play. We will miss a whole year of development while the team is not going anywhere anyway in 2019. So stupid.
Take Four: Always said he had talent
Take Five: He's playing like a rookie
Take Six: Giants suck. Jints Central. Its as plain as day. He makes mistakes and this guy is so inconsistent on some plays ...just like a rookie.
Take Seven: DG needs to go. He wastes too many draft choices. We need to hurry straight to a winning team as fast as possible
Take Eight: Gotta consider replacing him with another draft pick.
Take Nine: Anyone who says anything different is clearly inconsistent
How did Goff look year 1 to year 2 ? And I dont think hes an amazing QB by any stretch.
Jones has flashed almost every major characteristic you want in a top QB. Nothing is guaranteed but he looks to be the goods once he matures a bit.
Is Burrow that much better of a prospect to pass up the opportunity to draft a potential game changing pass rusher?
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me crazy, but I'm still very high on Daniel Jones. I think he can be special.
How did Goff look year 1 to year 2 ? And I dont think hes an amazing QB by any stretch.
Jones has flashed almost every major characteristic you want in a top QB. Nothing is guaranteed but he looks to be the goods once he matures a bit.
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me crazy, but I'm still very high on Daniel Jones. I think he can be special.
How did Goff look year 1 to year 2 ? And I dont think hes an amazing QB by any stretch.
Jones has flashed almost every major characteristic you want in a top QB. Nothing is guaranteed but he looks to be the goods once he matures a bit.
Using Goff as an example isn't good. He got McVay and the Rams would rush to line and McVay would be in his ear telling him what to do constantly. It was harder to do this on road so his home road splits are insane. Now defenses have figured it out and muddled coverages until the 15 second mark. Not something you'll hear on ESPN, but that the deal.
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To me the key question is this: had Jones's been good enough for the Giants to discount drafting Burrow at #1 or #2 overall? I think the answer to that question is no.
Is Burrow that much better of a prospect to pass up the opportunity to draft a potential game changing pass rusher?
From where I'm standing now, probably not. However, I'm not making the decision. Look at it this way:
If Matt Rhule says in an interview that he favors drafting Burrow and trading Jones, should Rhule be disqualified from the job?
I never suggested getting rid of Jones. Granted, I've been skeptical since we selected him, but I've kept an open mind.
But there are some statistical signs that are troubling the last two months.