I thought there was a chance that Shurmur would stay with him relinquishing play-calling and Bettcher taking the fall. Now? I don't think there is anything that can save them.
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Oh and by the way, he was our back up QB from 2000 to 2003
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Accorsi would definitely pick John Fox
Boy would that suck!
Better mean Mara is open to changing how the NYG operate Â
Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
Florio probably running with the rumor of Garrett Â
Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
RE: RE: Better mean Mara is open to changing how the NYG operate Â
Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
He was also drafted by the Giants and played a series in SB XXXVII when Collins got knocked out of the game.
You have to factor in how coaching candidates will view him. Do they agree with Gettleman’s philosophy? Will they want to take a job where a 69 year old GM who’s already failed with one coach will be buying the groceries? The Giants are going to have a super high draft pick here, possibly #1 overall. That’s a big opportunity for a new coach.
Any serious, high profile candidate will most likely want say over personnel and will want to work with their own trusted staff.
Of course that’s not the “Giant Way” so we’ll probably settle for a desperate candidate who’s willing to accept the existing framework.
and all this talk about looking good in practice and now excuses about a young roster says he knows his job is anything but secure.
Yes, there is that. And we've noticed on BBI that in recent weeks, the Giants broadcast team has taken pretty pointed shots at Shurmur. And it's coming from all angles, we've seen it from Papa, Banks, Diehl, etc. Usually they are not big on criticizing the coaches, but it seems like they have been turned loose more. The media smells blood. The fans have had it. Shurmur's statements, and also questioning Peppers' toughness with a broken bone in his back (it's a pain issue if he can play), the way they botched the DeOssie IR situation, etc. It all points to a head coach who is in over his head. Shurmur will never be a head coach in the NFL again. He's a solid OC, who rode the perfect wave for himself to land this job with the Giants. But his survival in 2019 depended on 2 things once he switched to Jones in Week 3
- Jones continued improvement and finishing strong
- The team and the young players getting better and more competitive down the stretch
Right now, we've seen ups and downs from Jones on point 1. On point 2, he's crashing and burning at the rate of Fassel in 2003 when the team packed up the tent. He's been out coached and the team appears to be tuning him out. You can't have a young team like this led by a coach that inspires no one. He has to go.
See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
"of jones' continued improvement." he just played the worst game of his career today, and he's looked bad against every team with a winning record. i realize he was on a bum ankle today, and certainly (arguably) having jones is more attractive to a potential coach than having eli, but i am not sure it means much one way or the other.
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
RE: RE: Better mean Mara is open to changing how the NYG operate Â
Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Last years draft looks worse every day. This year's draft has been average at best. They SHOULD have young players. the problem is that not many are any good.
See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
LOL! Like any good young coach is going to tie their legacy to Dave Gettleman and this dumpster fire of a player personnel department.
See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
LOL! Like any good young coach is going to tie their legacy to Dave Gettleman and this dumpster fire of a player personnel department.
Each to their own but typically if there is a coaching vacancy, it’s because the team was bad.. it’s not like good teams are getting rid of their coach’s.. when I look at all the other bad teams it’s us with the mist potential to turn it around the fastest.
"of jones' continued improvement." he just played the worst game of his career today, and he's looked bad against every team with a winning record. i realize he was on a bum ankle today, and certainly (arguably) having jones is more attractive to a potential coach than having eli, but i am not sure it means much one way or the other.
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
The job is attractive
Top5 pick, too 2nd round pick
Low expectation
A qb that arguably has played better than all of his peers in the last 2 drafts
See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
No good coach is coming here to work under gettleman and chris mara controlling their player personnel . you would have to be a retread grateful for a 2nd chance like shurmur to tie your fate to this trainwreck .
Fully expecting the clapper to be the next head coach after the cowboys have another underperforming season.
We have several young and talented players at skill positions and potential in the young defensive players. They are also owned by guys that are fairly lenient on their coaches. I dont think they will have a problem attracting coaches.
Shurmur needs to go. I dont know what he brings. The offense is putrid. It has gotten even worse this year and his decisions as a head coach are often mind boggling. Today sounded like a home game for the packers. Ownership surely noticed the empty seats
and anyone who uses todays game as a sign he isn't the guy isn't being realistic. Jones made some nice throws, showed nice ball awareness when being rushed and ball security as well as good movement even with a bad ankle. His Ints were misses and sermed to be a guy pressing. Hevis playing with 3rd and 4th string TE's, WR's that included a guy off the practice squad, a shitty Oline and A SEVERELY underperforming RB....
The comment stood out, as I kept hoping that his blasé nature was just maturity that was going to shine through in time, but it’s really turned out to just be him being non inspiring, through and through.
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
Staff needs to go.
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
The Giants have been throwing dirt on Shurmur for the past two weeks. Internally they've already decided, and they have their mouthpieces putting out word.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
I don’t think Gettleman needs to be let go no matter what, but the next HC absolutely should help make this call. If they don’t want to work with Gettleman, then get rid of him.
You cannot have the tail wag the dog the old archaic corporate way of the GM leading the way. That’s how you get confused visions, or a GM not completely understanding a HC’s vision for the team, or a HC not appreciating the ingredients he has to work with. I think we need to try something new.
Bring in a HC that picks the GM he wants to work with so that the two are in lockstep and finishing each other’s sentences the minute they walk in the door. The trust will be there and they’ll understand each other and make for an excellent foundation to build the organization in their joint vision.
It also makes it a lot cleaner that if the two fail, the owners will not be confused on who to pick to stay or go, they both can get wiped off the slate because they failed together. Its cleaner for all parties and holds everyone accountable to the same standard of excellence and force them to work as well as then can together.
This is why I was strongly in favor of Riddick and McDaniels last year as it was rumored those two WANTED to work with one another. I want that kind of dynamic between GM and coach.
While I would not be completely shocked if DG was fired I Â
do doubt he will be after just two seasons when he was chained to old players (year 1); big contracts; old QB; and, little talent.
I do believe we have youth with upside. Our secondary will likely be five young guys and veteran backups. I believe D. Jones is a QB to build around. He just has to learn not to turn it over so easily, especially fumbles.
i think he's made every effort to accommodate his coaches and their vision. i'm no insider, but supposedly it was shurmur who wanted beckham gone. shurmur who wanted to draft lauletta. bettcher who wanted bethea and ogletree.
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
If Mara can't see that his franchise is going in the opposite direction of what the successful franchises are now doing than he's lost beyond belief. The franchise is stale, drab, stagnated.
It would serve Mara well to clean everyone out and bring in people with ZERO connection to him or the franchise for a fresh perspective without any allegiances.
Of course there is. This team is a shit show, embarrassment and disappointment for the third straight year. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that major changes are coming
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
i think he's made every effort to accommodate his coaches and their vision. i'm no insider, but supposedly it was shurmur who wanted beckham gone. shurmur who wanted to draft lauletta. bettcher who wanted bethea and ogletree.
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
Chapter 10 from the chronicles of "Dave Gettleman: How to Always Get it Wrong and It Never Be Your Fault."
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
There's definitely an ExtremeSkins-y feel around here lately, particularly with all the pro-Gettleman dupes registering in the past month.
Is that the Giants are in such a blow it up position, again, that the whole switch to 3-4 could greatly impact and hinder who the Giants move forward with as next HC and/or GM.
Are the Mara's going to look at the partnership of Gettleman and Shurmur + Coaching Staff and provide the option to stay but fire the HC? Or will they let Gettleman make that decision?
If we keep Gettleman, you can almost certainly presume we're not hiring any HC that wants to run the 4-3 defense. We've invested way too much into 3-4 linemen.
If we let both go, then we hire a GM to hire a HC to run the 3-4? Or give them carte blanche for a full redo and risk setting back the development of Lawrence, Tomlinson, Carter, etc.?
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
Staff needs to go.
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
You don't know the specifics of his buyout though. I'd bet he has a buyout that is different for the NFL than it is for other college jobs. Rhule isn't stupid. His life goal is not to coach Baylor or college.
And a head of football operations hired. Maras need to be relegated to the owners box. Let that guy come in a evaluate the entire organization, including Jones. If he feels Jones is a legit chance to be atop 5-8 qb, than keep him if he’s merely a guy who will be “fine” move on. Then make every other decision as if no one is safe. That will turn the franchise around.
Hey, there's nothing more genuine than the handle Gettledogman.
what the fuck does this even mean? i don't get it. is gettledog a reference to cattle dog? or, gettleman is a "dog" in the mold of lawrence taylor (crazed dog)?
I thought there was a chance that Shurmur would stay with him relinquishing play-calling and Bettcher taking the fall. Now? I don't think there is anything that can save them.
I had this exact thought. Now, it's just too late.
The Giants have been throwing dirt on Shurmur for the past two weeks. Internally they've already decided, and they have their mouthpieces putting out word.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
This is about right..
except if you fire Gettleman and leave Chris Mara and his scouting team in place, you are not cleaning out the rot
Hey, there's nothing more genuine than the handle Gettledogman.
what the fuck does this even mean? i don't get it. is gettledog a reference to cattle dog? or, gettleman is a "dog" in the mold of lawrence taylor (crazed dog)?
this has to be the dumbest handle on bbi
I never read it so much as gettle dog man, as I read it as gettle dogma n
The Giants have been throwing dirt on Shurmur for the past two weeks. Internally they've already decided, and they have their mouthpieces putting out word.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
This is about right..
except if you fire Gettleman and leave Chris Mara and his scouting team in place, you are not cleaning out the rot
Very true... THe Maras neede to cede control over football decisions... Unfortunately, not going to happen...
Thus, what is past is prologue...
"All of this has happened before. And all of it will happen again."
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Right there with you on this. The obvious media manipulation and the posters that are enthusiastic patsies is a bit nauseating
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
That is unbelievable. Is there a carve out for specific jobs?
I was under the impression that buyouts are mostly for other college jobs and there’s usually a much smaller one (if any) for NFL jobs.
Also I don’t think Rhule’s buyout is $30M. At least I can’t find that anywhere. The reports say it’s among the biggest in college football but nothing definitive on the numbers.
Also I don’t think Rhule’s buyout is $30M. At least I can’t find that anywhere. The reports say it’s among the biggest in college football but nothing definitive on the numbers.
Saw the same thing. But the consensus seems to suggest that it's a big one. Top five. So $30M would fit.
Since Baylor is private it seems it doesn't have to reveal the $s.
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
omfg, shills?
Are you guys seriously so arrogant that you think the Giants care enough about what you dumbfuck think that they hire shills to influence your pea brains?
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Bull shit.
We needed an O line, edge, and LBs, coach
Now we need an O Line, edge, LBs, coach and WRs
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Bull shit.
We needed an O line, edge, and LBs, coach
Now we need an O Line, edge, LBs, coach and WRs
But it's actually a good thing our WRs suck now because at least they're quiet....
Here’s the problem with getting rid of pat and not gettleman. Besides the litany of terrible moves he’s made since coming, most recently Leonard Williams which is still mind-boggling- so let’s say you get rid of Pat and leave Dave and next year there is no improvement. At that point you’ve likely lost all confidence in gettleman after his 3 year record so you fire gettleman. Obviously a new gm brings a new coach and now you have your franchise qb with his 3rd system in 3 years.
If you fire pat and not gettleman , you better feel pretty damn confident you want him here for the next 2-3 years
He gets pounded for being overly loyal and adverse to change, but this really is uncharted territory. I think people are misguided when they say he is afraid to part with coaches.
He fired Coughlin off of 7-9, 6-10 & 6-10. The Saints stuck with Payton after three straight 7-9 seasons. It’s hard for me to buy the idea that Mara is afraid to change coaches when he fired a 2x SB HC.
After the 1990 SB, the Giants were mostly mediocre. There were a lot of 7-9 & 8-8 seasons, but it was never like this. Look at Fassel, he went:
Usually competitive under Coughlin. The final 3 years under Coughlin was bad, but again, nothing compared to this. That 3 year stretch happens in the NFL & Mara kept Reese too long, but I’m sure age played a role as well as hopes to have sustainable winning with McAdoo. It worked in 2016. McAdoo:
11-5
2-10 (fired)
0-4 (Spags)
Shurmur:
5-11
2-10
My point is, from the beginning of Fassel through McAdoo’s first year, it’s been pretty good. The end of Coughlin’s tenure was bad, but the franchise was always respectable.
It’s now 10-34 since the beginning of 2017. We really have no idea what Mara will be because we have never seen this with him as owner.
At least 2-5 idiotic calls per game where you’re screaming at the TV.. Routinely out coached. Not someone you run through a brick wall for...
We need that kind of guy. A real force at HC, a true inspiration as the head man. An innovator.
Your not kidding even the commentators called him out several times . 3rd and one brings in the ice cold FB who rarely touches the ball then uses the just activated Scott on 4th down reverse and fumbles how many times did they practice that . Then the crummy flea flicker without establishing the run ? Enough of this disaster don't even want to watch anymore
I can’t help but shake Eric’s first impression of him, “milque toast”... I didn’t want to believe that, but it has played out exactly that way.
He blew it with Barks. He blew it with the LW trade. He blew it with Murmur. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. This organization is rotten from the top down. Getty must go.
As far as Matt Rhule is concerned I've heard his NFL buyout is a t Â
trivial sum which makes sense, he has made it pretty clear he wants to go NFL and why would he be interviewing for NFL jobs with 30 million buyout. No team is paying that. Do some critical thinking people.
RE: RE: RE: RE: i am not sure the job is attractive bc Â
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
omfg, shills?
Are you guys seriously so arrogant that you think the Giants care enough about what you dumbfuck think that they hire shills to influence your pea brains?
Get over yourself.
You idiot, they want to control the narrative through every possible media outlet. Since this is open and free its an easy media outlet on which to put out their message. I am sure they do it on other message boards as well.
And yes they want to manage their fans, especially at a time like this. They run a business. We are their consumers. The last thing they want is to lose a large chunk of their consumers and a major revenue stream. EVERY multi billion dollar business manages their media perception. You are the fool if you don't realize it.
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
So say we all.
I know this has been a hard day. There's been plenty of them lately. I can guarantee you there'll be more to come. Remember your self-esteem, your self-respect, and your self-worth. Hold strong to them, because people are watching. - Adama
half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
RE: RE: RE: Here is the problem with these rumors Â
I think we tried some variation of this in the recent past with a guy who coached Rodgers. No thanks.
Was the 'Other Guy' really that bad or was he 'black balled'...he wanted Mahomes and wanted to beach Eli...doesn't sound so bad to me...
Oh, you want McAdoo back, do you? Should be easy enough, as no team has even offered him the role of equipment manager after the bang up job he did as head coach of the New York Giants.
Fuck no. One title with the best QB in the NFL. Never has a head coach done less with more.
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
"of jones' continued improvement." he just played the worst game of his career today, and he's looked bad against every team with a winning record. i realize he was on a bum ankle today, and certainly (arguably) having jones is more attractive to a potential coach than having eli, but i am not sure it means much one way or the other.
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
Jones didn't have a good day today but the kid stays in the pocket (And there are many QBs,knowing what a turnstile Solder is,who would have "happy feet"),is as tough as nails & will only get better from Year #1 to #2. Any coach, looking for a HC job,would see Jones as a major positive!
Fuck no. One title with the best QB in the NFL. Never has a head coach done less with more.
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
So would you say no to Sean Payton ad well?
RE: As far as Matt Rhule is concerned I've heard his NFL buyout is a t Â
trivial sum which makes sense, he has made it pretty clear he wants to go NFL and why would he be interviewing for NFL jobs with 30 million buyout. No team is paying that. Do some critical thinking people.
Dabo Swinney has a $93 million contract with Clemson, with a $4m buyout, $6m buyout if he goes to Alabama. This buyout decreases every year. I don't see Rhule's buyout being bigger than Swinney's. My guess is that if he goes to the NFL the buyout is low single digit millions, like $2-4m
would think of Jones. But he certainly looks like he has a chance to be very good.
As far as McAdoo goes who knows what he's been offered or what he wants to do. He's still being paid 3 million as HC of NYG this year correct? Let's see if he tries to get back in next year.
Is that the Giants are in such a blow it up position, again, that the whole switch to 3-4 could greatly impact and hinder who the Giants move forward with as next HC and/or GM.
Are the Mara's going to look at the partnership of Gettleman and Shurmur + Coaching Staff and provide the option to stay but fire the HC? Or will they let Gettleman make that decision?
If we keep Gettleman, you can almost certainly presume we're not hiring any HC that wants to run the 4-3 defense. We've invested way too much into 3-4 linemen.
If we let both go, then we hire a GM to hire a HC to run the 3-4? Or give them carte blanche for a full redo and risk setting back the development of Lawrence, Tomlinson, Carter, etc.?
This is such a mess.
Disaster. That said, Lawrence and Tomlinson would be fine as 4-3 DTs and it’s not like we have any LBs anyway. Still need 2 edge rushers and Carter isn’t one. Nows the time to change rather than waiting for another 3-13 season and firing Gettleman in 2020
half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry
Do both. I've been challenging the smug arrogance of the analytics Duo for some time now. And they've both said frequently that part of the reason they talk about things is so the Giants will see the posts and make changes.
They fully believe shills are here and that their voice has an impact.
would think of Jones. But he certainly looks like he has a chance to be very good.
As far as McAdoo goes who knows what he's been offered or what he wants to do. He's still being paid 3 million as HC of NYG this year correct? Let's see if he tries to get back in next year.
Yes, Benny comes off the dole this year. At which time, Shurmur will be paid for another 3 year vacation.
Shurmur can do to stay. He can win out and it won't matter.
I genuinely feel that they've been so caught up in holding onto Eli that keeping everything in tact was the way to "make it work" but that's all done now.
I have to think that their world has been rocked by all of this and Pat isn't the guy to undo that. Nice man, bad head coach.
The only question I have is DG and whether Mara has the balls to drop the hammer on him too. I'd support that for a whole new reset and bringing in one of the top coaches out there. But that's the part i'm doubting happens.
if only because of continuity for Jones. Whatever Mara thinks, he also sees the number of young QBs ruined by having to learn too many systems too early.
He'll have another year with talent taken at the top of the round, which even he should be able to get to 5 or 6 wins. We'll see what happens after that.
Is there a precedant for a HC (not in his first year) Â
One cannot assume the Giants will make any positive change until you see it. John Mara has done nothing to show he is anything more than an inherited wealth mediocrity.
Even a slob like McAdoo was able to convince John he was some kind of football genius.
if only because of continuity for Jones. Whatever Mara thinks, he also sees the number of young QBs ruined by having to learn too many systems too early.
He'll have another year with talent taken at the top of the round, which even he should be able to get to 5 or 6 wins. We'll see what happens after that.
Lol, Continuity is not a positive when it is bad continuity. Bring in a guy who they think is good with QBs ...Norv? Not that I love it but I think they may think Garrett may be good with QBs too. He was both a QB and QB coach here.
If you think Rhule is going to be a great coach ... Â
... then who cares about a $30 million buyout? We're about to blow that much on an average 3-4 DE in Leonard Williams. Pay the extortion fee and get him in here.
Fuck no. One title with the best QB in the NFL. Never has a head coach done less with more.
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
So would you say no to Sean Payton ad well?
RE: As far as Matt Rhule is concerned I've heard his NFL buyout is a t Â
trivial sum which makes sense, he has made it pretty clear he wants to go NFL and why would he be interviewing for NFL jobs with 30 million buyout. No team is paying that. Do some critical thinking people.
Where have you seen that Rhule "has made it pretty clear he wants to go to the NFL"
Everything I have read says nothing of the sort. Especially since he signed the extension. The news seems to be more at the possibility of Rhule leaving for a bigger school not the NFL.
At the end of September he had an article in the Dallas Morning News paper saying he was happy with his current gig. Rhule - ( New Window )
$30M buyout to take a chance on a college coach. I don't see any Â
owner doing that especially Mara. Plus have to pay a hugh salary. Nope. Hopefully they go with someone who has a little fire in his belly and has been a winner. Gotta be at least one out there that fits the bill.
of staff. Sounds like a guy that is just waiting for an NFL opp to open up he likes. Two years in a row he has told his players that he is interviewing for NFL jobs. Why is that going to change now? He got asked that question in the middle of the season, he needs to have his team focused, not on his impending jump to NFL.
RE: If you think Rhule is going to be a great coach ... Â
... then who cares about a $30 million buyout? We're about to blow that much on an average 3-4 DE in Leonard Williams. Pay the extortion fee and get him in here.
30 Million is an absurd number to pay for anyone who has not coached in NFL game. Picking a coach without NFL experience is a lottery in terms of it working out. Most of the time it doesn't and once in a while it does. To think Rhule would be a good coach is a long shot (as it would be with any non established candidate), to pay 30 million for that lottery ticket would be insane.
I saw that one when looking after reading your post. It is from July. The one from September says different.
Either way. He is not coming to the Giants. If anything. He will get an offer or two from some of the bigger schools that are now or will be looking in the near future.
I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Well personally I have always taken a wait and see. I soured on Shurmur after AZ game. That said, it's tougher to judge Gettleman because even though a few of his FA pickups have sucked, I still really like his drafts. I'm willing to give DG more rope, but not Shurmur.
I think this is more on coaching. We are seeing people (OL) go backwards. It really sucks because now we have to upset the whole coaching apple cart again. Another new scheme for everyone to have to get comfortable with again. New players being broght in to fit the new scheme.
Yay. I don't see this shit turning around for a while. Ugh, so depressing.
I don't see them as comparable coaches. McCarthy was plagued by the same problems year in and year out and failed to solve them. Running game and defense. He didn't think outside the box and if he didn't have Rodgers he would have been fired long ago.
Payton is much more original and applies innovative solutions to solving his teams problems and has succeeded doing it.
I'd also argue they were victimized in consecutive playoff runs by some of the most horrific officiating in NFL history. So bad that they in fact changed the rules as a result of how embarrassing it was. There could readily be another Lombardi in Payton's trophy case.
He's a flat out better coach than the other guy...imo. 34-10 over the last three seasons vs 21-22-1.
RE: RE: If you think Rhule is going to be a great coach ... Â
... then who cares about a $30 million buyout? We're about to blow that much on an average 3-4 DE in Leonard Williams. Pay the extortion fee and get him in here.
30 Million is an absurd number to pay for anyone who has not coached in NFL game. Picking a coach without NFL experience is a lottery in terms of it working out. Most of the time it doesn't and once in a while it does. To think Rhule would be a good coach is a long shot (as it would be with any non established candidate), to pay 30 million for that lottery ticket would be insane.
$0 of that counts against the cap. The only place it matters is Mara's bank account. It's definitely worth it if you think Rhule is a good coach; like I said, we blow that on mediocre players all the time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: mara learned all his tricks from putin. Â
half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry
Do both. I've been challenging the smug arrogance of the analytics Duo for some time now. And they've both said frequently that part of the reason they talk about things is so the Giants will see the posts and make changes.
They fully believe shills are here and that their voice has an impact.
I tend to laugh until I'm crying!
C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
but I'm much more interested in whether a candidate is a good "leader of men" instead of whether he has been a successful coordinator or assistant. Being good at Xs and Os does not necessarily mean that you are good at inspiring others, delegating to assistant coaches or setting overall tone and expectations for a 53-man team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: mara learned all his tricks from putin. Â
C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
Lol c'mon you know what this is. Hard to defend DG at this point so he's just waiting in the wings for anything he can pounce on with bluster. He only enters a conversation if it can be overly dismissive and bombastic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: mara learned all his tricks from putin. Â
C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
Lol c'mon you know what this is. Hard to defend DG at this point so he's just waiting in the wings for anything he can pounce on with bluster. He only enters a conversation if it can be overly dismissive and bombastic.
Oh sure, NGD, but I still needed to call out the inherent deceptiveness of his bombast and his post. Also the the idiocy of even entertaining the notion that the Giants don't pay any attention at all to their fans via message boards.
The whole post is really just another veiled defense of Gettleman, since, in my original post I postulated that the Giants are leaking that Shurmur is toast, but they are still supporting DG.
To be honest, while I am not saying its true... I would not at all be surprised to find out that the Giants offer FMiC some Giants freebees to make some of his posts.
Baylor had around 43 players on scholarship when Rhule got there and I believe he went 1-11 in his first year.
now they're a ten win team and on the verge of making the CFB playoffs. That's the definition of a turn-around.
Granted the Big 12 may not be all that impressive this year but Baylor is way, way down on the pecking order in terms of landing Texas recruits behind the other Texas Schools and the Oklahoma schools and some out of state schools like LSU.
Hadn’t heard about Brian Daboll, the Bills OC, until Â
vacchiano mentioned him in the linked article, That’s an interesting idea.
The guy was hired by Saban and then rehired by him a few years later. He also worked in two stints with Belichick. So prominent football people rehire the guy and he is now experiencing success in Buffalo.
There are no direct Giants relationships but everything about Daboll’s resume indicates that Gettleman should be investigating him closely.
I don't think shills are here to publicly turn sentiment Â
I'm not speculating on how much what we say here as posters has an effect on their decision making. Certainly no specific post.
But it does feed into market analysis.
This is one thing we can agree on. They definetly test the waters here, especially because BBI seems to be a bit higher quality than many other fan forums, at least the ones I've seen. You have this community of your core group of fans, why wouldn't you use it for market research? Especially since they seem to be so sensitive to fan sentiment. I still wonder if someone like DEP is why they thought the fanbase was so upset with the benching of Eli. He was very vocal about it all the time, as well as a few others.
I'm not speculating on how much what we say here as posters has an effect on their decision making. Certainly no specific post.
But it does feed into market analysis.
This is one thing we can agree on. They definetly test the waters here, especially because BBI seems to be a bit higher quality than many other fan forums, at least the ones I've seen. You have this community of your core group of fans, why wouldn't you use it for market research? Especially since they seem to be so sensitive to fan sentiment. I still wonder if someone like DEP is why they thought the fanbase was so upset with the benching of Eli. He was very vocal about it all the time, as well as a few others.
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
Also i'm guessing you and I are the "anallytics duo" McL Â
I wonder what about Christian though? I guess to be in the duo you have to be both a proponent of good decision making systems AND intolerant of FMiC BS lol
Also the the idiocy of even entertaining the notion that the Giants don't pay any attention at all to their fans via message boards.
There's an idiocy here - the idea that shills are planted to post positive things about DG, but throw Shurmur under the bus. It is Flat-Earth type shit.
And you state it with confidence. A consistent theme.
You don't share your swag or your shill money. Since you have been on here through several administrations its obvious you have a house full of good stuff.
Meanwhile, we suffer because your opinions go back to Jints Central, cover for their lack of analytics and you destroyed such great Giant choices before they even started.
Like Ron Dayne. And Clint Sintim. And Jesse Palmer. And you robbed Ramses Barden of his gifts just to get stuff from Accorsi so he could orchestrate the firing of Gilbride.
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
Well I think DG can go mostly because he is the one that approved Shurmur and these cast of clowns. As far as player acquisition I think it is hit or miss, but I believe that coaching is a major detriment on this team. I know many on the can DG side think he is evil incarnate, but I think his players are victim of piss poor coaching. Bring in Rivera and we will see instant results. That much I believe.
I know I chose to make fun of FMIC a bit, but on a serious note now; there is no way this 2019 version of BBI produces the input for market analysis.
Not even close to market analysis. Some guys think this. Some guys think that. No one is happy.
Kinda like what they feel.
Whats more, market analysis has a goal, a target set of questions and usually it tests for a reaction to a proposal or test product or slogan. Its pretty rigorous even if it is opinion based data.
We agree that Pat used to post here. That was to combat pre draft or FA period rumors. It was also before the FO felt less sensitive post SB 2007.
As the internet became more common and more knowable as a place to vent, we have not seen them very much have we? And I hate to say this, but since Dg, there is a heck of a lot less pre draft leaking ( granted on a sample size of 2 ) which has likely helped us or will help us someday.
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
Well I think DG can go mostly because he is the one that approved Shurmur and these cast of clowns. As far as player acquisition I think it is hit or miss, but I believe that coaching is a major detriment on this team. I know many on the can DG side think he is evil incarnate, but I think his players are victim of piss poor coaching. Bring in Rivera and we will see instant results. That much I believe.
I agree DG has been hit or miss... Its not all bad. I just don't think there are enough hits.
Regarding Rivers, I am sure he will get more out what is here that Shurmur. As long as the Giants are not going to fire Gettleman, Rivera is about as good as it will get for the next HC hire. What remains to be seen is if that will be enough. While not completely pessimistic about that combo, I can't say that I'm optimistic.
I know I chose to make fun of FMIC a bit, but on a serious note now; there is no way this 2019 version of BBI produces the input for market analysis.
Not even close to market analysis. Some guys think this. Some guys think that. No one is happy.
Kinda like what they feel.
Whats more, market analysis has a goal, a target set of questions and usually it tests for a reaction to a proposal or test product or slogan. Its pretty rigorous even if it is opinion based data.
We agree that Pat used to post here. That was to combat pre draft or FA period rumors. It was also before the FO felt less sensitive post SB 2007.
As the internet became more common and more knowable as a place to vent, we have not seen them very much have we? And I hate to say this, but since Dg, there is a heck of a lot less pre draft leaking ( granted on a sample size of 2 ) which has likely helped us or will help us someday.
Bill2
100% agree with
Quote:
market analysis has a goal, a target set of questions and usually it tests for a reaction to a proposal or test product or slogan. Its pretty rigorous even if it is opinion based data.
Which is why I think the have shills or plants or whatever you want to call them. I would think they float something (whatever it is they are testing) and gauge the reaction. Instant feedback.
I also think they plant ideas to try and manage the fanbase. Like now, I would think they have some posts that are suggesting that they are working on the issues and things should get better. Right now that is basically put the blame on Shurmur and have faith that the FO will find a better coach. We certainly see themes like that from quite a few posters. Its not like they need dozens of accounts, just enough to get a message out there and have others amplify it. Smart businessmen will want to find way to control fan anger, and try to avoid complete revolt that will affect merchandising and ultimately their pocketbooks.
If you were in the Giants shoes, wouldn't you take advantage of such a cheap and easy method to at least try to manage things. Its a lot cheaper than producing more TV shows, which fans will likely tune out now, and even if they watch its with a very jaundiced eye knowing its coming directly from team management.
If the NYG, a privately held company who reports to no one(who get the majority of their revenue from TV, then splitting NFL merchandising then a very stable base of season ticket holders), I would have nothing to do with BBI.
Any hours spent there are wasted. Any attempt to discern what the fan base thought when the vast vast majority of BBI does not post (literally true) and you are going to do what you are going to do anyway is a major waste of employee time and money. Would a smart business man encourage employees to visit psychics and numerologists on company time for decisions that don't flex the revenue all that much?
McL, different people post the week after two straight wins than who post after 2 straight losses.
What the "fans" who do post on BBI "think" is already a sample size composed of the irrational. Then they speak with authority about the unknowable. That's who posts on BBI. Look at the number of those who are members of BBI and the number who post. Only the minority posts as opposed to the majority who lurks.
Ages ago there used to be 1-900 numbers for call centers that specialized in providing women who would talk dirty to callers at some outrageous cost per minute to the "customer".
They were outrageously profitable. Some PE firms asked for a complete review of the data ( Data Analytics) and operations of these kind of "business" because a telemarketing company they were looking at had a division that specialized in being 1-900 call center.
The insight:
They were not really profitable except for the top 8% of most frequent callers. While the majority of callers called between 1-2, there was a subset that called very frequently. The top 8% of customers of dirty call centers spent 15 hours a day on the phone with a series of women who specialized in talking dirty to callers. Despite a rapid path towards lessening their own functionality.
Similarly, the top 8% of Pepsi drinkers drink 30 cans of Pepsi a day or more. Despite a rapid path towards consuming no Pepsi.
Casinos make their money on the top 8% who visit. Over and over again. Despite losing more than winning. Despite a rapid path to not being able to afford a casino
Insight: The top 8% of consumers of addictive services had major health and psychological problems. But were resitant to reality
Insult comedian take: BBI posters are the most talkative consumers of an addictive service. And the ones posting the most now do so despite futility and constant losing. And almost no actual facts
I rest my case.
This is not market research. No smart business man of a model that is inoculated from temporary fan opinion would spent time considering what people on BBI "think" ( we don't think McL) as an input to an actual decision about football.
Although in the past, I do think JerseyJoe did tell them to simplify the passing trees, draft sumo wrestlers for Defensive Tackle and try a 2-9 on third and long.
might spend time writing to season ticket holders and might spend for surveys of folks who did not renew their season tickets. Or delay season ticket renewal drives until after fan optimism is revived post the draft ( which it always is).
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
might spend time writing to season ticket holders and might spend for surveys of folks who did not renew their season tickets. Or delay season ticket renewal drives until after fan optimism is revived post the draft ( which it always is).
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
A silent majority, ala Nixon? Let's hope it works out as well for them.
might spend time writing to season ticket holders and might spend for surveys of folks who did not renew their season tickets. Or delay season ticket renewal drives until after fan optimism is revived post the draft ( which it always is).
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree...
These are media outlets... And even if most do not post, there are a large number lurking... Its an easy and cheap way to get a message out. There is literally no downside and it costs next to nothing. Like I said above, it is something that you can assign to an intern.
I thought about this as the day started. Im serious in parts and trying to make a point in other parts of the post.
You, NGD and Anakim all wish to help the Giants. Anakim wants to eventually be a GM. You and NGD want the Giants to use more advanced analytics to capture competitive advantage.
Ok. The most effective way to do this is form a company. McLAN, LLc.
McLAN provides marketing, concept testing, market research, pre draft scouting analysis, deep AI based Analytical Insights, Cap Optimization and Management Counsel.
Once formed via signed agreement, its easy to make contact with the NYG. Pat Hanlon has an email, NYG interns scour BBI for insights and Eric can give you email addresses from contacts with the FO.
So we have five important things. Very motivated consultants, dedication to the success of the NYG, domain expertise from your other work, Anakim is an attorney and you already spend hours on the NYG.
You wish to offer six months of your best work as sweat equity for free and then negotiate a longer term retainer.
Now when it comes to listing competitive advantages, are you going to claim that you have great access to test and or plant messages with about 5000 NYG fans (via BBI) that:
1) Know Nothing vital or unique about the NYG
2) Know nothing that they did not read elsewhere
3) Are divided into three powerful subgroups:
A) Folks who are certain something will fail without seeing any data and use that as a basis to predict the future ( with certainty)
B) Folks who believe things will work out before there is any data
C) Folks who argue the past.
D) Folks who find satisfaction in taking internet pot shots other NYG fans on a daily basis
I dunno. If I was selling McLAN services, Id drop claiming a useful value proposition emerges from market testing on BBI.
So Im in favor of acting now and forming McLAN LLc. I think you will learn a lot and it just may succeed. Thinking big in time of change often turns into big wins.
I continue to think spending much energy on market testing on BBI is not going to be of interest.
But what do I know? After all, I am on BBI as well.
three sub groups because most belong to at least two of those groups and our split personalities belong to all four depending on if the Giants won or lost the prior week
Most professional market researchers spend a lot of time screening out anyone with a strong belief before they start testing. You know...so its valid information
1) I think analytics is where a certain chunk of the focus has turned, what i'm more interested in is innovation and cultures of innovation. I'd say things like poor timeout usage and the lack of certain skill / education types within the organization are more symptoms of a pervasive lack of commitment to innovation. I don't get as down on Mara as some as I do think he really cares, that being said, his comments on instant replay have been the thing from him that perhaps rubbed me in the worst way. It came off as very closed off to new ideas and while installing new things haphazardly (as Shurmur has done with 2 point and 4th down conversion tables) I am as against as anyone, it's important to be open to new ideas and to evaluate them in earnest alongside your current processes. I would say when you find yourself in a position like the Giants are, in the bottom of your industry, lack of innovation is the most probable reason you are there.
2) There is chasm between troll like behavior and "controlling a message." I think most of the time helping to breed optimism is a good thing, who doesn't want to feel a little more optimistic? I certainly do. That being said when it becomes clear that it is being used to cover up systemic problems, it is inherently problematic. Pinning this on Shurmur with all of our dead money (plus Eli being essentially dead money making this figure astronomical) talking a big game about culture then trading up for someone like Baker with visible on field character issues is disingenuous at best. When I see the pinning on Shurmur pile on, including people I've seen photographed with members of the Giants organization propagating the erroneous scapegoating that has continued to stop us from making the wholesale changes this team very clearly needs, that feels like manipulation to me. Do I think there are any bad actors here? No, not really. DGs attitude bothers me, the LW trade seems incredibly self serving to him personally.
3) Posters vs. Readers of BBI are vastly different. BBI gets as many as $1M visits per month. I don't think that interacting with posters is as top of mind as controlling the message. I think there are certainly people with strong associations with the team post on the board, whether or not they are being force fed lines I feel is irrelevant. Many are clearly slanted by a narrative that certain interests in the Giants organization clearly want to push to point blame in certain directions over others. Directions away from the top of the organization. That's fine, they have that right. People might think i'm biased because of my association with advanced data analysis myself but i'm not attached to any particular thing other than the pursuit of improving decision making processes and the best information possible. And I guess my issue is my bias is a known quantity if you even want to call it bias.
I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that upper management isn't doing everything that they can to minimize their role in creating this mess and that's in their right. But that is the story that needs to be told much more than the one being pushed by various media patsies with more of a platform than BBI, so tell it we shall
1) I see the time management problems as significantly improved by:
A) Copying best practices of coaching staffs that manage the clock well. This is a capability that many teams do better than the current coaching staff. TC was never good at it but better than this
B) Getting a HC who can handle more variables under time pressure than PC can.
We are so far below average at a capability others mastered ages ago that I don't know that we need innovation until we have better practice SOP's (standard operating practices) and a conscious OC or HC
As for senior management attempting to direct the message- what I see is senior management trying not to comment at all before the end of the year - and media filing in the vacuum by making the lack of information a leverage point.
I also don't think it matters what they say until some point in the future when things improve. You don't control the narrative or the messages until you win. And you certainly don't get benefit of any doubt until you win. That's true in every venture. imo
Changes to the Giants (aka Shurmur dismissed at the end of the season)
Changes with the Giants.
Proven winner if he has Aaron Rodgers.
I think we tried some variation of this in the recent past with a guy who coached Rodgers. No thanks.
The look on Shurmur’s face when he gave the “I’m a realist” quote was all I needed to see. He knows it.
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
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Proven Winner, Cold Weather & Good QB Coach...
Proven winner if he has Aaron Rodgers.
I think we tried some variation of this in the recent past with a guy who coached Rodgers. No thanks.
Was the 'Other Guy' really that bad or was he 'black balled'...he wanted Mahomes and wanted to beach Eli...doesn't sound so bad to me...
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Oh and by the way, he was our back up QB from 2000 to 2003
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Accorsi would definitely pick John Fox
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to help with the candidates! Dust off the list!
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
Accorsi would definitely pick John Fox
Boy would that suck!
"If we can't compromise on a Brexit, we at least should all be able to agree on a Shurmexit."
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
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Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
To each their own.
And Shurmer just loses and loses.
They have to go
Say...this Garrett fellow looks like he's going to win the NFC East. That'll be a coup to bring him in here and steal him from Dallas. He's a Princeton lad you know...
He was also drafted by the Giants and played a series in SB XXXVII when Collins got knocked out of the game.
Any serious, high profile candidate will most likely want say over personnel and will want to work with their own trusted staff.
Of course that’s not the “Giant Way” so we’ll probably settle for a desperate candidate who’s willing to accept the existing framework.
If mara wants a chance at a top up and comer or maybe evebn harbaugh for example they are going to want a lot more control
Yes, there is that. And we've noticed on BBI that in recent weeks, the Giants broadcast team has taken pretty pointed shots at Shurmur. And it's coming from all angles, we've seen it from Papa, Banks, Diehl, etc. Usually they are not big on criticizing the coaches, but it seems like they have been turned loose more. The media smells blood. The fans have had it. Shurmur's statements, and also questioning Peppers' toughness with a broken bone in his back (it's a pain issue if he can play), the way they botched the DeOssie IR situation, etc. It all points to a head coach who is in over his head. Shurmur will never be a head coach in the NFL again. He's a solid OC, who rode the perfect wave for himself to land this job with the Giants. But his survival in 2019 depended on 2 things once he switched to Jones in Week 3
- Jones continued improvement and finishing strong
- The team and the young players getting better and more competitive down the stretch
Right now, we've seen ups and downs from Jones on point 1. On point 2, he's crashing and burning at the rate of Fassel in 2003 when the team packed up the tent. He's been out coached and the team appears to be tuning him out. You can't have a young team like this led by a coach that inspires no one. He has to go.
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
At least 2-5 idiotic calls per game where you’re screaming at the TV.. Routinely out coached. Not someone you run through a brick wall for...
We need that kind of guy. A real force at HC, a true inspiration as the head man. An innovator.
I can’t help but shake Eric’s first impression of him, “milque toast”... I didn’t want to believe that, but it has played out exactly that way.
worst run franchise in the league
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
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Dumping DG and PS would be a welcomed breath of fresh air. Those 2 assholes have somehow gotten the franchise in a worse place today than when they got here.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Last years draft looks worse every day. This year's draft has been average at best. They SHOULD have young players. the problem is that not many are any good.
+1
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See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
LOL! Like any good young coach is going to tie their legacy to Dave Gettleman and this dumpster fire of a player personnel department.
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In comment 14698599 g56blue10 said:
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See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
LOL! Like any good young coach is going to tie their legacy to Dave Gettleman and this dumpster fire of a player personnel department.
Each to their own but typically if there is a coaching vacancy, it’s because the team was bad.. it’s not like good teams are getting rid of their coach’s.. when I look at all the other bad teams it’s us with the mist potential to turn it around the fastest.
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
The job is attractive
Top5 pick, too 2nd round pick
Low expectation
A qb that arguably has played better than all of his peers in the last 2 drafts
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See a lot top candidates wanting to come here.. we have jones and Barkley with lots of young players who have played valuable minutes. Plus we are looking at a very high draft pick with a considerable amount of cap space.. seems like a good situation to me for an incoming coach
I would say so. This seems despite the record to be a favorable situation for a new coach.
No good coach is coming here to work under gettleman and chris mara controlling their player personnel . you would have to be a retread grateful for a 2nd chance like shurmur to tie your fate to this trainwreck .
Fully expecting the clapper to be the next head coach after the cowboys have another underperforming season.
A qb that arguably has played better than all of his peers in the last 2 drafts
Lamar Jackson is probably going to win MVP this year, soooooooo......
Shurmur needs to go. I dont know what he brings. The offense is putrid. It has gotten even worse this year and his decisions as a head coach are often mind boggling. Today sounded like a home game for the packers. Ownership surely noticed the empty seats
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A qb that arguably has played better than all of his peers in the last 2 drafts
Lamar Jackson is probably going to win MVP this year, soooooooo......
He's a wide receiver. At least he would have been on this backwards-ass team.
The comment stood out, as I kept hoping that his blasé nature was just maturity that was going to shine through in time, but it’s really turned out to just be him being non inspiring, through and through.
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
Staff needs to go.
Florio on Shurmur - ( New Window )
It's here Tom..
https://www.nbcsports.com/video/giants-pat-shurmur-could-be-nearing-end-after-loss-packers - ( New Window )
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I really hope Mara makes it happen.
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
Staff needs to go.
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
"No, I thought you said change was coming to the Giants"
I don’t think Gettleman needs to be let go no matter what, but the next HC absolutely should help make this call. If they don’t want to work with Gettleman, then get rid of him.
You cannot have the tail wag the dog the old archaic corporate way of the GM leading the way. That’s how you get confused visions, or a GM not completely understanding a HC’s vision for the team, or a HC not appreciating the ingredients he has to work with. I think we need to try something new.
Bring in a HC that picks the GM he wants to work with so that the two are in lockstep and finishing each other’s sentences the minute they walk in the door. The trust will be there and they’ll understand each other and make for an excellent foundation to build the organization in their joint vision.
It also makes it a lot cleaner that if the two fail, the owners will not be confused on who to pick to stay or go, they both can get wiped off the slate because they failed together. Its cleaner for all parties and holds everyone accountable to the same standard of excellence and force them to work as well as then can together.
This is why I was strongly in favor of Riddick and McDaniels last year as it was rumored those two WANTED to work with one another. I want that kind of dynamic between GM and coach.
I do believe we have youth with upside. Our secondary will likely be five young guys and veteran backups. I believe D. Jones is a QB to build around. He just has to learn not to turn it over so easily, especially fumbles.
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
It kinda goes without saying but... I bet you have never seen a head coach lose as often as Shurmur!
It would serve Mara well to clean everyone out and bring in people with ZERO connection to him or the franchise for a fresh perspective without any allegiances.
5 years 40-50 million
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
Chapter 10 from the chronicles of "Dave Gettleman: How to Always Get it Wrong and It Never Be Your Fault."
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
There's definitely an ExtremeSkins-y feel around here lately, particularly with all the pro-Gettleman dupes registering in the past month.
Are the Mara's going to look at the partnership of Gettleman and Shurmur + Coaching Staff and provide the option to stay but fire the HC? Or will they let Gettleman make that decision?
If we keep Gettleman, you can almost certainly presume we're not hiring any HC that wants to run the 4-3 defense. We've invested way too much into 3-4 linemen.
If we let both go, then we hire a GM to hire a HC to run the 3-4? Or give them carte blanche for a full redo and risk setting back the development of Lawrence, Tomlinson, Carter, etc.?
This is such a mess.
14698757 Earl the goat said:
5 years 40-50 million
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In comment 14698662 bigblue12 said:
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I really hope Mara makes it happen.
+ 1. I think it is time to bring in a fresh face and voice. New York guy. Played for Paterno at Penn St. Turned the Baylor program around super quick, and that was a PR nightmare. This team needs to think more outside the box.
Gettleman isn’t flawless but he is not the issue. The coaches are not good. Maybe the special teams coach is decent but I am not a fan of our defensive game plans, our inability to adjust in game, our offensive identity is spread shotgun to a fault.
Staff needs to go.
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
You don't know the specifics of his buyout though. I'd bet he has a buyout that is different for the NFL than it is for other college jobs. Rhule isn't stupid. His life goal is not to coach Baylor or college.
what the fuck does this even mean? i don't get it. is gettledog a reference to cattle dog? or, gettleman is a "dog" in the mold of lawrence taylor (crazed dog)?
this has to be the dumbest handle on bbi
I had this exact thought. Now, it's just too late.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
except if you fire Gettleman and leave Chris Mara and his scouting team in place, you are not cleaning out the rot
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Hey, there's nothing more genuine than the handle Gettledogman.
what the fuck does this even mean? i don't get it. is gettledog a reference to cattle dog? or, gettleman is a "dog" in the mold of lawrence taylor (crazed dog)?
this has to be the dumbest handle on bbi
I never read it so much as gettle dog man, as I read it as gettle dogma n
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The Giants have been throwing dirt on Shurmur for the past two weeks. Internally they've already decided, and they have their mouthpieces putting out word.
They'll end up with another HC, who wants some other parts, they'll leave Gettleman in place to go get them, and we'll be right back here in 2 years.
This is about right..
except if you fire Gettleman and leave Chris Mara and his scouting team in place, you are not cleaning out the rot
Very true... THe Maras neede to cede control over football decisions... Unfortunately, not going to happen...
Thus, what is past is prologue...
"All of this has happened before. And all of it will happen again."
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Right there with you on this. The obvious media manipulation and the posters that are enthusiastic patsies is a bit nauseating
Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
That is unbelievable. Is there a carve out for specific jobs?
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Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
That is unbelievable. Is there a carve out for specific jobs?
I was under the impression that buyouts are mostly for other college jobs and there’s usually a much smaller one (if any) for NFL jobs.
Also I don’t think Rhule’s buyout is $30M. At least I can’t find that anywhere. The reports say it’s among the biggest in college football but nothing definitive on the numbers.
He's on my wishlist as well. Jim Harbaugh is at the top of my list but I think we all know ownership will steer clear of him.
Also I don’t think Rhule’s buyout is $30M. At least I can’t find that anywhere. The reports say it’s among the biggest in college football but nothing definitive on the numbers.
Saw the same thing. But the consensus seems to suggest that it's a big one. Top five. So $30M would fit.
Since Baylor is private it seems it doesn't have to reveal the $s.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
omfg, shills?
Are you guys seriously so arrogant that you think the Giants care enough about what you dumbfuck think that they hire shills to influence your pea brains?
Get over yourself.
This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Bull shit.
We needed an O line, edge, and LBs, coach
Now we need an O Line, edge, LBs, coach and WRs
exactly. his segment seemed speculative and to not say anything new. i'd like to hear from bbi asshats on this..
hitdog, where you at?
Haha, so good.
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This franchise is in considerable better shape now then when DG got here. We were a 3-13 team with an old roster and old QB. Will probably be a 3-13 Team this year with a ton of young players getting valuable time and a potential franchise QB
Bull shit.
We needed an O line, edge, and LBs, coach
Now we need an O Line, edge, LBs, coach and WRs
But it's actually a good thing our WRs suck now because at least they're quiet....
If you fire pat and not gettleman , you better feel pretty damn confident you want him here for the next 2-3 years
He fired Coughlin off of 7-9, 6-10 & 6-10. The Saints stuck with Payton after three straight 7-9 seasons. It’s hard for me to buy the idea that Mara is afraid to change coaches when he fired a 2x SB HC.
After the 1990 SB, the Giants were mostly mediocre. There were a lot of 7-9 & 8-8 seasons, but it was never like this. Look at Fassel, he went:
10-5-1
7-9
8-8
12-4 (SB appearance)
7-9
10-6
4-12 (fired)
Aside from the last year, it was never like this. Even the 2004 team was 4-4 before it blew up. Looking at Coughlin:
6-10
11-5
8-8
10-6 (SB champ)
12-4
8-8
10-6
9-7 (SB champ)
9-7
7-9
6-10
6-10
Usually competitive under Coughlin. The final 3 years under Coughlin was bad, but again, nothing compared to this. That 3 year stretch happens in the NFL & Mara kept Reese too long, but I’m sure age played a role as well as hopes to have sustainable winning with McAdoo. It worked in 2016. McAdoo:
11-5
2-10 (fired)
0-4 (Spags)
Shurmur:
5-11
2-10
My point is, from the beginning of Fassel through McAdoo’s first year, it’s been pretty good. The end of Coughlin’s tenure was bad, but the franchise was always respectable.
It’s now 10-34 since the beginning of 2017. We really have no idea what Mara will be because we have never seen this with him as owner.
So say we all.
At least 2-5 idiotic calls per game where you’re screaming at the TV.. Routinely out coached. Not someone you run through a brick wall for...
We need that kind of guy. A real force at HC, a true inspiration as the head man. An innovator.
Your not kidding even the commentators called him out several times . 3rd and one brings in the ice cold FB who rarely touches the ball then uses the just activated Scott on 4th down reverse and fumbles how many times did they practice that . Then the crummy flea flicker without establishing the run ? Enough of this disaster don't even want to watch anymore
I can’t help but shake Eric’s first impression of him, “milque toast”... I didn’t want to believe that, but it has played out exactly that way.
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In comment 14698665 huygens20 said:
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A qb that arguably has played better than all of his peers in the last 2 drafts
Lamar Jackson is probably going to win MVP this year, soooooooo......
He's a wide receiver. At least he would have been on this backwards-ass team.
To be fair, he would have been the best receiver on our team.
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I said earlier on another thread that the Giants will want to get out in front and control the narrative.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
omfg, shills?
Are you guys seriously so arrogant that you think the Giants care enough about what you dumbfuck think that they hire shills to influence your pea brains?
Get over yourself.
You idiot, they want to control the narrative through every possible media outlet. Since this is open and free its an easy media outlet on which to put out their message. I am sure they do it on other message boards as well.
And yes they want to manage their fans, especially at a time like this. They run a business. We are their consumers. The last thing they want is to lose a large chunk of their consumers and a major revenue stream. EVERY multi billion dollar business manages their media perception. You are the fool if you don't realize it.
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"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
So say we all.
SO SAY WE ALL.
I wish Gettleman would step down but I don't see it happening, unless his health is not as good as it could be.
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"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
So say we all.
I know this has been a hard day. There's been plenty of them lately. I can guarantee you there'll be more to come. Remember your self-esteem, your self-respect, and your self-worth. Hold strong to them, because people are watching. - Adama
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
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In comment 14698766 .McL. said:
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"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
So say we all.
SO SAY WE ALL.
SO SAY WE ALL
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In comment 14698484 mvftw said:
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Proven Winner, Cold Weather & Good QB Coach...
Proven winner if he has Aaron Rodgers.
I think we tried some variation of this in the recent past with a guy who coached Rodgers. No thanks.
Was the 'Other Guy' really that bad or was he 'black balled'...he wanted Mahomes and wanted to beach Eli...doesn't sound so bad to me...
Oh, you want McAdoo back, do you? Should be easy enough, as no team has even offered him the role of equipment manager after the bang up job he did as head coach of the New York Giants.
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
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half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry
that said if mara ends up hiring some underachiever like garrett or mccarthy just because they have previous head coaching experience i'll shit in my hat.
Jones didn't have a good day today but the kid stays in the pocket (And there are many QBs,knowing what a turnstile Solder is,who would have "happy feet"),is as tough as nails & will only get better from Year #1 to #2. Any coach, looking for a HC job,would see Jones as a major positive!
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
So would you say no to Sean Payton ad well?
Dabo Swinney has a $93 million contract with Clemson, with a $4m buyout, $6m buyout if he goes to Alabama. This buyout decreases every year. I don't see Rhule's buyout being bigger than Swinney's. My guess is that if he goes to the NFL the buyout is low single digit millions, like $2-4m
As far as McAdoo goes who knows what he's been offered or what he wants to do. He's still being paid 3 million as HC of NYG this year correct? Let's see if he tries to get back in next year.
Are the Mara's going to look at the partnership of Gettleman and Shurmur + Coaching Staff and provide the option to stay but fire the HC? Or will they let Gettleman make that decision?
If we keep Gettleman, you can almost certainly presume we're not hiring any HC that wants to run the 4-3 defense. We've invested way too much into 3-4 linemen.
If we let both go, then we hire a GM to hire a HC to run the 3-4? Or give them carte blanche for a full redo and risk setting back the development of Lawrence, Tomlinson, Carter, etc.?
This is such a mess.
Disaster. That said, Lawrence and Tomlinson would be fine as 4-3 DTs and it’s not like we have any LBs anyway. Still need 2 edge rushers and Carter isn’t one. Nows the time to change rather than waiting for another 3-13 season and firing Gettleman in 2020
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Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
That is unbelievable. Is there a carve out for specific jobs?
The buyouts are for other college jobs. For the nfl it’s a different number
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In comment 14698966 japanhead said:
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half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry
Do both. I've been challenging the smug arrogance of the analytics Duo for some time now. And they've both said frequently that part of the reason they talk about things is so the Giants will see the posts and make changes.
They fully believe shills are here and that their voice has an impact.
I tend to laugh until I'm crying!
As far as McAdoo goes who knows what he's been offered or what he wants to do. He's still being paid 3 million as HC of NYG this year correct? Let's see if he tries to get back in next year.
Yes, Benny comes off the dole this year. At which time, Shurmur will be paid for another 3 year vacation.
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"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
So say we all.
BSG quote- nice...
Personally, I don't see them winning another game and finishing 2-14. Yes, the Fin's and Skin's will beat them.
Personally, I don't see them winning another game and finishing 2-14. Yes, the Fin's and Skin's will beat them.
If Shurmur finishes 4-12 he'll come back. They'll say the team showed signs of improvement and played .500 ball in the end of the year.
I genuinely feel that they've been so caught up in holding onto Eli that keeping everything in tact was the way to "make it work" but that's all done now.
I have to think that their world has been rocked by all of this and Pat isn't the guy to undo that. Nice man, bad head coach.
The only question I have is DG and whether Mara has the balls to drop the hammer on him too. I'd support that for a whole new reset and bringing in one of the top coaches out there. But that's the part i'm doubting happens.
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In comment 14698726 AdamBrag said:
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Matt Rhule's buyout on his current contract is ~$30 million. I wanted him too, but it's not happening.
That is unbelievable. Is there a carve out for specific jobs?
The buyouts are for other college jobs. For the nfl it’s a different number
Yeah, I get it. I’m just blown away by the number for Matt Ruhle.
He’s a good coach but many here have canonized him as the next great HC. I’m just not so sure...
DG stays.
He'll have another year with talent taken at the top of the round, which even he should be able to get to 5 or 6 wins. We'll see what happens after that.
Even a slob like McAdoo was able to convince John he was some kind of football genius.
He'll have another year with talent taken at the top of the round, which even he should be able to get to 5 or 6 wins. We'll see what happens after that.
Lol, Continuity is not a positive when it is bad continuity. Bring in a guy who they think is good with QBs ...Norv? Not that I love it but I think they may think Garrett may be good with QBs too. He was both a QB and QB coach here.
Does he need to borrow my pen?
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Fuck no. One title with the best QB in the NFL. Never has a head coach done less with more.
Get Harbaugh or Saban. Stop dicking around. If they can't swing that then get someone tough with some defensive pelts on the wall(fuck all you whiny PC PETA assholes).
So would you say no to Sean Payton ad well?
Where have you seen that Rhule "has made it pretty clear he wants to go to the NFL"
Everything I have read says nothing of the sort. Especially since he signed the extension. The news seems to be more at the possibility of Rhule leaving for a bigger school not the NFL.
At the end of September he had an article in the Dallas Morning News paper saying he was happy with his current gig.
Rhule - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
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.
He's on my wishlist as well. Jim Harbaugh is at the top of my list but I think we all know ownership will steer clear of him.
yes! my choice for DC!
30 Million is an absurd number to pay for anyone who has not coached in NFL game. Picking a coach without NFL experience is a lottery in terms of it working out. Most of the time it doesn't and once in a while it does. To think Rhule would be a good coach is a long shot (as it would be with any non established candidate), to pay 30 million for that lottery ticket would be insane.
I saw that one when looking after reading your post. It is from July. The one from September says different.
Either way. He is not coming to the Giants. If anything. He will get an offer or two from some of the bigger schools that are now or will be looking in the near future.
They are going to blame it all on Shurmur. You don't see Papa, Banks and Diehl questioning the GM...
Same thing with the general media. The Giants brass are leaking what they want leaked.
Even on here, I am sure that there are some posters who truly are planted shills for the organization. I find it quite interesting just how many posters suddenly turned on PS a few weeks ago. Must have been 20 or more posters all turning on Shurmur and defending Gettleman at the same time, many (not all) of these posters are new withing the last 3 months. Of course, not all of those accounts will be plants but I think some are. It is the Giants trying to contain the fallout by controlling the narrative.
Basically, its all Shurmur's fault, he is toast, and Gettleman is safe. To quote one of my favorite TV shows...
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Well personally I have always taken a wait and see. I soured on Shurmur after AZ game. That said, it's tougher to judge Gettleman because even though a few of his FA pickups have sucked, I still really like his drafts. I'm willing to give DG more rope, but not Shurmur.
I think this is more on coaching. We are seeing people (OL) go backwards. It really sucks because now we have to upset the whole coaching apple cart again. Another new scheme for everyone to have to get comfortable with again. New players being broght in to fit the new scheme.
Yay. I don't see this shit turning around for a while. Ugh, so depressing.
Payton is much more original and applies innovative solutions to solving his teams problems and has succeeded doing it.
I'd also argue they were victimized in consecutive playoff runs by some of the most horrific officiating in NFL history. So bad that they in fact changed the rules as a result of how embarrassing it was. There could readily be another Lombardi in Payton's trophy case.
He's a flat out better coach than the other guy...imo. 34-10 over the last three seasons vs 21-22-1.
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... then who cares about a $30 million buyout? We're about to blow that much on an average 3-4 DE in Leonard Williams. Pay the extortion fee and get him in here.
30 Million is an absurd number to pay for anyone who has not coached in NFL game. Picking a coach without NFL experience is a lottery in terms of it working out. Most of the time it doesn't and once in a while it does. To think Rhule would be a good coach is a long shot (as it would be with any non established candidate), to pay 30 million for that lottery ticket would be insane.
$0 of that counts against the cap. The only place it matters is Mara's bank account. It's definitely worth it if you think Rhule is a good coach; like I said, we blow that on mediocre players all the time.
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In comment 14698967 .McL. said:
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In comment 14698966 japanhead said:
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half the posters on this site are in fact part of a massive troll farm intended to spread disinformation about gettleman's performance. careful everyone.. BBI has been weaponized. LMAO
You know its funny you should say that... Actually Putin probably learned it from just about every corporate entity that has been doing this crap in the US for decades. You probably weren't around then, but back in the 90s, Pat Hanlon used to come on BBI and post Giants' spin all the time. He took quite a bit of crap for it and eventually stopped, at least stopped using his real account. I doubt the Giants as an organization have stopped posting their spin.
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry
Do both. I've been challenging the smug arrogance of the analytics Duo for some time now. And they've both said frequently that part of the reason they talk about things is so the Giants will see the posts and make changes.
They fully believe shills are here and that their voice has an impact.
I tend to laugh until I'm crying!
C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
But it does feed into market analysis.
You had fans paying to run billboards on the turnpike shaming the franchise for the benching.
Link - ( New Window )
C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
Lol c'mon you know what this is. Hard to defend DG at this point so he's just waiting in the wings for anything he can pounce on with bluster. He only enters a conversation if it can be overly dismissive and bombastic.
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C'mon Fatman, you've been around long enough to remember Pat Hanlon posting here on BBI.
You've also seen Eric admit, even recently that yes the Giants pay attention to BBI. I am sure they pay attention to other messages boards as well.
The Giants are a multi-Billion doallar corporate entity. THe Maras and Tisch may be football dummies, but they are not business dummies. Corporate entities spend milions on market research, so they can understand what their customers are thinking and what they want from their product. The spend millions more on advertising and other methods of getting their message out. All this is Business Administration 101. Monitoring message boards, and having some shills post has got to be the cheapest easiest way to not only get instant market feedback, but to try and get your message out there. I mean seriously, it's just too easy.
Nobody is suggesting that they have built troll bots or anything like that. But having an intern monitoring message boards and preparing summaries, and having said intern post a some messages is a no brainer. They would be business morons not to do it.
Lol c'mon you know what this is. Hard to defend DG at this point so he's just waiting in the wings for anything he can pounce on with bluster. He only enters a conversation if it can be overly dismissive and bombastic.
Oh sure, NGD, but I still needed to call out the inherent deceptiveness of his bombast and his post. Also the the idiocy of even entertaining the notion that the Giants don't pay any attention at all to their fans via message boards.
The whole post is really just another veiled defense of Gettleman, since, in my original post I postulated that the Giants are leaking that Shurmur is toast, but they are still supporting DG.
To be honest, while I am not saying its true... I would not at all be surprised to find out that the Giants offer FMiC some Giants freebees to make some of his posts.
now they're a ten win team and on the verge of making the CFB playoffs. That's the definition of a turn-around.
Granted the Big 12 may not be all that impressive this year but Baylor is way, way down on the pecking order in terms of landing Texas recruits behind the other Texas Schools and the Oklahoma schools and some out of state schools like LSU.
The guy was hired by Saban and then rehired by him a few years later. He also worked in two stints with Belichick. So prominent football people rehire the guy and he is now experiencing success in Buffalo.
There are no direct Giants relationships but everything about Daboll’s resume indicates that Gettleman should be investigating him closely.
I think that people in that building are so pathetically thin skinned I can see them on the Internet using aliases arguing in their favor.
If you think that's ridiculous that's fine, Kevin Durant says hello.
But it does feed into market analysis.
This is one thing we can agree on. They definetly test the waters here, especially because BBI seems to be a bit higher quality than many other fan forums, at least the ones I've seen. You have this community of your core group of fans, why wouldn't you use it for market research? Especially since they seem to be so sensitive to fan sentiment. I still wonder if someone like DEP is why they thought the fanbase was so upset with the benching of Eli. He was very vocal about it all the time, as well as a few others.
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I'm not speculating on how much what we say here as posters has an effect on their decision making. Certainly no specific post.
But it does feed into market analysis.
This is one thing we can agree on. They definetly test the waters here, especially because BBI seems to be a bit higher quality than many other fan forums, at least the ones I've seen. You have this community of your core group of fans, why wouldn't you use it for market research? Especially since they seem to be so sensitive to fan sentiment. I still wonder if someone like DEP is why they thought the fanbase was so upset with the benching of Eli. He was very vocal about it all the time, as well as a few others.
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
There's an idiocy here - the idea that shills are planted to post positive things about DG, but throw Shurmur under the bus. It is Flat-Earth type shit.
And you state it with confidence. A consistent theme.
You don't share your swag or your shill money. Since you have been on here through several administrations its obvious you have a house full of good stuff.
Meanwhile, we suffer because your opinions go back to Jints Central, cover for their lack of analytics and you destroyed such great Giant choices before they even started.
Like Ron Dayne. And Clint Sintim. And Jesse Palmer. And you robbed Ramses Barden of his gifts just to get stuff from Accorsi so he could orchestrate the firing of Gilbride.
We are on to you Fat Man.
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In comment 14700195 .McL. said:
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
Well I think DG can go mostly because he is the one that approved Shurmur and these cast of clowns. As far as player acquisition I think it is hit or miss, but I believe that coaching is a major detriment on this team. I know many on the can DG side think he is evil incarnate, but I think his players are victim of piss poor coaching. Bring in Rivera and we will see instant results. That much I believe.
Not even close to market analysis. Some guys think this. Some guys think that. No one is happy.
Kinda like what they feel.
Whats more, market analysis has a goal, a target set of questions and usually it tests for a reaction to a proposal or test product or slogan. Its pretty rigorous even if it is opinion based data.
We agree that Pat used to post here. That was to combat pre draft or FA period rumors. It was also before the FO felt less sensitive post SB 2007.
As the internet became more common and more knowable as a place to vent, we have not seen them very much have we? And I hate to say this, but since Dg, there is a heck of a lot less pre draft leaking ( granted on a sample size of 2 ) which has likely helped us or will help us someday.
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In comment 14700861 Zeke's Alibi said:
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In comment 14700195 .McL. said:
Thanks Zeke... A very reasonable take for sure. Also, I noticed you saying the other day that while not calling for it, that you don't care if GD gets canned. That's more good common sense! Now we just need to complete your journey to the dark side! ;)
Speaking of common sense, FMiC calls it being smug... I guess it looks that way when you have none.
Well I think DG can go mostly because he is the one that approved Shurmur and these cast of clowns. As far as player acquisition I think it is hit or miss, but I believe that coaching is a major detriment on this team. I know many on the can DG side think he is evil incarnate, but I think his players are victim of piss poor coaching. Bring in Rivera and we will see instant results. That much I believe.
I agree DG has been hit or miss... Its not all bad. I just don't think there are enough hits.
Regarding Rivers, I am sure he will get more out what is here that Shurmur. As long as the Giants are not going to fire Gettleman, Rivera is about as good as it will get for the next HC hire. What remains to be seen is if that will be enough. While not completely pessimistic about that combo, I can't say that I'm optimistic.
Not even close to market analysis. Some guys think this. Some guys think that. No one is happy.
Kinda like what they feel.
Whats more, market analysis has a goal, a target set of questions and usually it tests for a reaction to a proposal or test product or slogan. Its pretty rigorous even if it is opinion based data.
We agree that Pat used to post here. That was to combat pre draft or FA period rumors. It was also before the FO felt less sensitive post SB 2007.
As the internet became more common and more knowable as a place to vent, we have not seen them very much have we? And I hate to say this, but since Dg, there is a heck of a lot less pre draft leaking ( granted on a sample size of 2 ) which has likely helped us or will help us someday.
Bill2
100% agree with
Which is why I think the have shills or plants or whatever you want to call them. I would think they float something (whatever it is they are testing) and gauge the reaction. Instant feedback.
I also think they plant ideas to try and manage the fanbase. Like now, I would think they have some posts that are suggesting that they are working on the issues and things should get better. Right now that is basically put the blame on Shurmur and have faith that the FO will find a better coach. We certainly see themes like that from quite a few posters. Its not like they need dozens of accounts, just enough to get a message out there and have others amplify it. Smart businessmen will want to find way to control fan anger, and try to avoid complete revolt that will affect merchandising and ultimately their pocketbooks.
If you were in the Giants shoes, wouldn't you take advantage of such a cheap and easy method to at least try to manage things. Its a lot cheaper than producing more TV shows, which fans will likely tune out now, and even if they watch its with a very jaundiced eye knowing its coming directly from team management.
If the NYG, a privately held company who reports to no one(who get the majority of their revenue from TV, then splitting NFL merchandising then a very stable base of season ticket holders), I would have nothing to do with BBI.
Any hours spent there are wasted. Any attempt to discern what the fan base thought when the vast vast majority of BBI does not post (literally true) and you are going to do what you are going to do anyway is a major waste of employee time and money. Would a smart business man encourage employees to visit psychics and numerologists on company time for decisions that don't flex the revenue all that much?
McL, different people post the week after two straight wins than who post after 2 straight losses.
What the "fans" who do post on BBI "think" is already a sample size composed of the irrational. Then they speak with authority about the unknowable. That's who posts on BBI. Look at the number of those who are members of BBI and the number who post. Only the minority posts as opposed to the majority who lurks.
Ages ago there used to be 1-900 numbers for call centers that specialized in providing women who would talk dirty to callers at some outrageous cost per minute to the "customer".
They were outrageously profitable. Some PE firms asked for a complete review of the data ( Data Analytics) and operations of these kind of "business" because a telemarketing company they were looking at had a division that specialized in being 1-900 call center.
The insight:
They were not really profitable except for the top 8% of most frequent callers. While the majority of callers called between 1-2, there was a subset that called very frequently. The top 8% of customers of dirty call centers spent 15 hours a day on the phone with a series of women who specialized in talking dirty to callers. Despite a rapid path towards lessening their own functionality.
Similarly, the top 8% of Pepsi drinkers drink 30 cans of Pepsi a day or more. Despite a rapid path towards consuming no Pepsi.
Casinos make their money on the top 8% who visit. Over and over again. Despite losing more than winning. Despite a rapid path to not being able to afford a casino
Insight: The top 8% of consumers of addictive services had major health and psychological problems. But were resitant to reality
Insult comedian take: BBI posters are the most talkative consumers of an addictive service. And the ones posting the most now do so despite futility and constant losing. And almost no actual facts
I rest my case.
This is not market research. No smart business man of a model that is inoculated from temporary fan opinion would spent time considering what people on BBI "think" ( we don't think McL) as an input to an actual decision about football.
Although in the past, I do think JerseyJoe did tell them to simplify the passing trees, draft sumo wrestlers for Defensive Tackle and try a 2-9 on third and long.
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
A silent majority, ala Nixon? Let's hope it works out as well for them.
I would guess, without any supporting data that there are pessimistic, angry, venting about what others write, rarely right but always certain about it BBI posting group. That's who is much of that we see as posting now.
The waiting and soon to be optimists are actually a larger group and not posting.
The largest group reads but does not post. Those are the ones likely to be more rational.
All consider themselves realists. Even though reading and posting about something you cant do anything about is by definition a somewhat delusional preoccupation.
Again, if I was ownership I'd spend a some small time on season ticket holders and the majority of time with retired scouts and ex GMS and coaches. Probably a smart silent guy or two at the league office. Or my cousins the Rooney's. I would not get caught interacting on the internet nor value any exchanges.
Sorry, that's my opinion.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree...
These are media outlets... And even if most do not post, there are a large number lurking... Its an easy and cheap way to get a message out. There is literally no downside and it costs next to nothing. Like I said above, it is something that you can assign to an intern.
You, NGD and Anakim all wish to help the Giants. Anakim wants to eventually be a GM. You and NGD want the Giants to use more advanced analytics to capture competitive advantage.
Ok. The most effective way to do this is form a company. McLAN, LLc.
McLAN provides marketing, concept testing, market research, pre draft scouting analysis, deep AI based Analytical Insights, Cap Optimization and Management Counsel.
Once formed via signed agreement, its easy to make contact with the NYG. Pat Hanlon has an email, NYG interns scour BBI for insights and Eric can give you email addresses from contacts with the FO.
So we have five important things. Very motivated consultants, dedication to the success of the NYG, domain expertise from your other work, Anakim is an attorney and you already spend hours on the NYG.
You wish to offer six months of your best work as sweat equity for free and then negotiate a longer term retainer.
Now when it comes to listing competitive advantages, are you going to claim that you have great access to test and or plant messages with about 5000 NYG fans (via BBI) that:
1) Know Nothing vital or unique about the NYG
2) Know nothing that they did not read elsewhere
3) Are divided into three powerful subgroups:
A) Folks who are certain something will fail without seeing any data and use that as a basis to predict the future ( with certainty)
B) Folks who believe things will work out before there is any data
C) Folks who argue the past.
D) Folks who find satisfaction in taking internet pot shots other NYG fans on a daily basis
I dunno. If I was selling McLAN services, Id drop claiming a useful value proposition emerges from market testing on BBI.
So Im in favor of acting now and forming McLAN LLc. I think you will learn a lot and it just may succeed. Thinking big in time of change often turns into big wins.
I continue to think spending much energy on market testing on BBI is not going to be of interest.
But what do I know? After all, I am on BBI as well.
2) There is chasm between troll like behavior and "controlling a message." I think most of the time helping to breed optimism is a good thing, who doesn't want to feel a little more optimistic? I certainly do. That being said when it becomes clear that it is being used to cover up systemic problems, it is inherently problematic. Pinning this on Shurmur with all of our dead money (plus Eli being essentially dead money making this figure astronomical) talking a big game about culture then trading up for someone like Baker with visible on field character issues is disingenuous at best. When I see the pinning on Shurmur pile on, including people I've seen photographed with members of the Giants organization propagating the erroneous scapegoating that has continued to stop us from making the wholesale changes this team very clearly needs, that feels like manipulation to me. Do I think there are any bad actors here? No, not really. DGs attitude bothers me, the LW trade seems incredibly self serving to him personally.
3) Posters vs. Readers of BBI are vastly different. BBI gets as many as $1M visits per month. I don't think that interacting with posters is as top of mind as controlling the message. I think there are certainly people with strong associations with the team post on the board, whether or not they are being force fed lines I feel is irrelevant. Many are clearly slanted by a narrative that certain interests in the Giants organization clearly want to push to point blame in certain directions over others. Directions away from the top of the organization. That's fine, they have that right. People might think i'm biased because of my association with advanced data analysis myself but i'm not attached to any particular thing other than the pursuit of improving decision making processes and the best information possible. And I guess my issue is my bias is a known quantity if you even want to call it bias.
I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that upper management isn't doing everything that they can to minimize their role in creating this mess and that's in their right. But that is the story that needs to be told much more than the one being pushed by various media patsies with more of a platform than BBI, so tell it we shall
1) I see the time management problems as significantly improved by:
A) Copying best practices of coaching staffs that manage the clock well. This is a capability that many teams do better than the current coaching staff. TC was never good at it but better than this
B) Getting a HC who can handle more variables under time pressure than PC can.
We are so far below average at a capability others mastered ages ago that I don't know that we need innovation until we have better practice SOP's (standard operating practices) and a conscious OC or HC
As for senior management attempting to direct the message- what I see is senior management trying not to comment at all before the end of the year - and media filing in the vacuum by making the lack of information a leverage point.
I also don't think it matters what they say until some point in the future when things improve. You don't control the narrative or the messages until you win. And you certainly don't get benefit of any doubt until you win. That's true in every venture. imo
Take care