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Leonard Williams

TD : 12/1/2019 7:52 pm
Looking more and more like a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-donít decision at yearís end. He looks like all heíll ever be is a solid but unspectacular 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. Not a game-changer and not a big play guy.

If I were to put an average annual comp number on him Iíd say heís worth $7-8M/year. If you look at the comps, heíll probably be looking for $11M+/year. I DO NOT want to pay him that, given his production/impact and the many other holes on this team.

Lawrence and Tomlinson are a good DL combo - I think we field a good D with them and a JAG at the other DL spot if we have good LBs/Edge guys.

The other factor is the increase in comp to the Jets if we re-sign him. Making the 2021 4 a 3 is something to factor in.

With each passing game where he plays well but not great and we near the end of his contract, this decision gives me more angst.

Why can't I digest the fact that we traded a Day 2 pick in a wasted  
Anakim : 12/1/2019 7:54 pm : link
season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.
I think they hit him with the transition tag  
Ben in Tampa : 12/1/2019 7:56 pm : link
And see what happens.

Itís just a really terrible trade by DG.
Essentially gave away a late second rounder  
Oscar : 12/1/2019 7:56 pm : link
For this guy. But even calling it what it is, a high third, it's a valuable pick. Now you can look at the Giants recent draft history (recent as in, oh, last decade or so) and say third round picks aren't worth a damn. But a competent front office can find value there. Part of that value is you're getting a cheap player.

Was Against the Deal  
Samiam : 12/1/2019 8:03 pm : link
For the obvious reasons. But 2 things. First, heís probably the best DL on the team and I suspect he would be better if they pick a good ER who would draw more attention. Down the road, he and Lawrence will be a formidable duo. Second, and this is maybe more in the hope department, maybe the Giants owe the Jets a 3rd round pick not necessarily their 3rd round pick. Iím hoping Gettleman realized this was going to be a very high pick and took steps to prevent that from happening,

That said, no one will offer Williams mega bucks and weíll definitely overpay for him but he has to be signed
day 2  
RedZone88 : 12/1/2019 8:08 pm : link
does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.
Still boggles the mind.  
bceagle05 : 12/1/2019 8:08 pm : link
.
RE: Was Against the Deal  
The_Boss : 12/1/2019 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14698533 Samiam said:
Quote:
For the obvious reasons. But 2 things. First, heís probably the best DL on the team and I suspect he would be better if they pick a good ER who would draw more attention. Down the road, he and Lawrence will be a formidable duo. Second, and this is maybe more in the hope department, maybe the Giants owe the Jets a 3rd round pick not necessarily their 3rd round pick. Iím hoping Gettleman realized this was going to be a very high pick and took steps to prevent that from happening,

That said, no one will offer Williams mega bucks and weíll definitely overpay for him but he has to be signed


Youíre giving Gettleman too much credit. Heís a dope. He didnít prevent anything.
Good DL guys are hard to find.  
5BowlsSoon : 12/1/2019 8:12 pm : link
No one runs on us anymore. Iím happy with his play.
If he is the GM he has to sign him  
Carl in CT : 12/1/2019 8:12 pm : link
To save face in the league whether we want him or not.
I think considering  
Leg of Theismann : 12/1/2019 8:14 pm : link
the fact that Gettleman is unlikely to spend every dollar of the 2020 free cap $, we'll be able to afford the transition tag on LW to buy some time before having to make a long-term contract decision. If we land Chase Young, + everyone else on the D-Line will have an added year of experience, LW could suddenly shine with little attention paid to him by the offense... and then maybe all of a sudden we have a decent pass-rush /front-7 in general. Even just the addition of Bosa to the 9ers seems to have turned that defense around quickly.

(No question though- I think we need a new DC to come in and breathe life into these guys... I'd love it if we could just go ahead and sign the 49ers D-Line coach as our DC immediately at season's end, that guy is apparently super intense.)

Either way, this is a lost season, and difficult to judge any one player right now in this environment... and if LW does turn out to be a quality player in the right scheme with the right supporting cast, then it will have been a good move. So, I'm reserving judgement for the time being, but no question at this very moment if we could do it over again I say keep that high 3rd rounder.

We'll see.
you're wrong about the compensation  
japanhead : 12/1/2019 8:18 pm : link
it's a 2021 5th that becomes a 4th if he is signed.
Everyone keeps talking about what we gave up, but  
Mike in Prescott : 12/1/2019 8:20 pm : link
If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal? We complain about lack of talent, but he is a proven talent to build around if we keep him.

So let's say he gets $11/year. Who would we be signing for less? Everything is relative. He is solid and a talent. Not what he was hoped to be when drafted, but it looks like a solid move to me. Just my two bits.
.  
GiantEgo : 12/1/2019 8:22 pm : link
Seems best to transition tag him and see what happens. The league knows what he his hard to imagine somebody is going to break the bank for him
RE: Why can't I digest the fact that we traded a Day 2 pick in a wasted  
Justlurking : 12/1/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14698503 Anakim said:
Quote:
season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.


No, you haven't. People have defended and continue to defend this GM malpractice. He's the worst GM in the league by far and needs to "retire" after this season.
the collins 3rd isnt affected by this years FA, right?  
V.I.G. : 12/1/2019 8:26 pm : link
so could the 3rd be the later comp pick?
RE: day 2  
Justlurking : 12/1/2019 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said:
Quote:
does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.


What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS.

PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.
How many times are you guys going to complain about this?!?!  
KJG5173 : 12/1/2019 8:27 pm : link
Over and over and over again. At least once a day. We traded a ď low second,Ē ďhe is going to be a udfa,Ē ďhe is going to get too much moneyĒ and on and on. Give it up already. If he is as horrible as you guys think he is then why would he get this gigantic contract?! He is a starting defensive lineman in the nfl. Thatís pretty damn good for a 3rd round pick. He is excellent in run d. Gets qb pressures and holding penalties. He isnít an edge rusher in this d so he isnít going to get sacks. Thatís not his task. The complaining about this trade is just so tired. He isnít the reason we lose these games. And no 3rd round pick is going to be the reason we all of a sudden are a playoff team.
RE: Everyone keeps talking about what we gave up, but  
Justlurking : 12/1/2019 8:28 pm : link
In comment 14698578 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal? We complain about lack of talent, but he is a proven talent to build around if we keep him.

So let's say he gets $11/year. Who would we be signing for less? Everything is relative. He is solid and a talent. Not what he was hoped to be when drafted, but it looks like a solid move to me. Just my two bits.


This is completely false. They get NO FUCKING COMP PICK UNLESS THEY DONT USE THEIR 90 MILLION OF CAP ROOM. It was an idiotic trade with ZERO justification. Fireable offense.
RE: Everyone keeps talking about what we gave up, but  
Capt. Don : 12/1/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14698578 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal?


I think it is possible that you do not understand how the comp pick formula works.

It is not applied to each free agent individually but the net free agent signings/losses. Given how much money we have next year, even if we do lose LW, there is an excellent chance that we will sign more valuable free agents than we lose.
RE: How many times are you guys going to complain about this?!?!  
Justlurking : 12/1/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14698601 KJG5173 said:
Quote:
Over and over and over again. At least once a day. We traded a ď low second,Ē ďhe is going to be a udfa,Ē ďhe is going to get too much moneyĒ and on and on. Give it up already. If he is as horrible as you guys think he is then why would he get this gigantic contract?! He is a starting defensive lineman in the nfl. Thatís pretty damn good for a 3rd round pick. He is excellent in run d. Gets qb pressures and holding penalties. He isnít an edge rusher in this d so he isnít going to get sacks. Thatís not his task. The complaining about this trade is just so tired. He isnít the reason we lose these games. And no 3rd round pick is going to be the reason we all of a sudden are a playoff team.


He isn't worth what some bad team (probably the giants) will pay him. The multiple wasted assets of Gettleman will be the reason we are a losing franchise, not just team. Defending this abortion of a franchise is tired. We are the worst run team in the NFL.
The good news is that  
Beer Man : 12/1/2019 8:32 pm : link
His play has lowered his value. However, based on what DG gave up the team almost has to sign him
RE: Why can't I digest the fact that we traded a Day 2 pick in a wasted  
GeofromNJ : 12/1/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14698503 Anakim said:
Quote:
season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

You are not the only one who is baffled. If the Giants sign Williams for next year, they threw away a 3rd round pick. If Williams walks, they get a comp pick that may be lower than the one they traded away. Am I missing something?
RE: the collins 3rd isnt affected by this years FA, right?  
AcidTest : 12/1/2019 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14698596 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
so could the 3rd be the later comp pick?


Trading for Williams doesn't affect the third round comp pick we expect to get for Williams. But we traded our pick, not the comp pick. You can't trade a pick that hasn't been awarded.
RE: RE: the collins 3rd isnt affected by this years FA, right?  
AcidTest : 12/1/2019 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14698634 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14698596 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


so could the 3rd be the later comp pick?



Trading for Williams doesn't affect the third round comp pick we expect to get for Williams. But we traded our pick, not the comp pick. You can't trade a pick that hasn't been awarded.


For Collins.
Justlurking  
Josh in MD : 12/1/2019 8:40 pm : link
Why don't you stop lurking for a moment and tell us what you think of Williams and the GM?
See how he plays under a better defensive coordinator  
Giantz_comeback : 12/1/2019 8:41 pm : link
Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix.

He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.
RE: The good news is that  
gmenatlarge : 12/1/2019 8:41 pm : link
In comment 14698615 Beer Man said:
Quote:
His play has lowered his value. However, based on what DG gave up the team almost has to sign him


How is that good, this is the best this guy has in his walk year! Do you think he will play better when they pay him more? Doubtful, let him walk!
Mara hired a GM that let him get robbed by the jets  
huygens20 : 12/1/2019 8:43 pm : link
And fans here would rather defend Gettleshit than to admit this truth

An UDFA @2-7 thatís gonna be a a 62-65th pick

Gettleman is literally the worst gm in the league at this point. He took the first offer he got for OBJ, traded up for a rookie CB thatís struggling mightly, and has drafted several DL guys that havenít worked out yet

Fire gettleshit already
Lurking- Williams is bad at football??  
Dave on the UWS : 12/1/2019 8:47 pm : link
Well, you're bad at posting, son there's that. Just my opinion. What is a GM's job? To acquire talent by any means possible. That was Gettleman's goal with the trade. He acquired LW as a building block he fully intends to retain. My issue with it, is there are a number of draft picks on the DL already. Some of those picks are now rendered expendable and wasted. Can't afford to do that while rebuilding.
L. Williams and D. Lawrence give us a good run defense  
SGMen : 12/1/2019 8:52 pm : link
for next year. Standout actually. I do believe Lawrence will develop as a pocket pusher type. Williams is what he is rushing the passer: quite average.

We essentially got a player we know can play though I do believe we overpaid a bit with a 3rd next year should we resign him. A 4th I could have lived with.
I was not in favor of the trade  
rasbutant : 12/1/2019 8:54 pm : link
But. Donít we have to wait and see if he signs before making a judgement.

Most all the comments are complaining about him being a FA. Would things be different for you if they signed him long term when traded???

If yes than all you are being is impatient and screaming BUT I WAnt to know now!

Again I wouldnít have made the trade but he is a good player and I will just wait and see what he ends up signing for, than Iíll scream about it.
RE: See how he plays under a better defensive coordinator  
christian : 12/1/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix.

He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.


The transition tag is not a tender. That's not how it works at all.
Uh...  
bw in dc : 12/1/2019 8:57 pm : link
What comp is $11M/yr?
I don't know why people keep saying he's the team's best DL  
jcn56 : 12/1/2019 9:04 pm : link
granted, the Giants don't exactly have a formidable DL, but I haven't seen Williams do anything that would point to him being their best.

He's managed a couple of pressures, and he was doubled quite a bit last week, but in both cases the play of the DL wasn't improved much over what was there in the beginning of the season.

DG traded away a 3rd+ for the rights to pay good money for that? On a team that's got so many holes it can use every player it can get, but happened to be OK at the interior DL spot.

If DG were on trial for incompetence, this would be the first bit of evidence.

And let's stop talking about the possible comp pick. Even if Williams walks and gets a fortune, they have a lot of cap space and tons of holes, they're going to be net spenders.
RE: Why can't I digest the fact that we traded a Day 2 pick in a wasted  
bradshaw44 : 12/1/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14698503 Anakim said:
Quote:
season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.


This should be the cause needed to fire DG. Heís been horrible. Outside of the preseason hype of his young picks, heís been dreadful. Time to go outside the box with young guys in the FO and HC spots.
He would have been  
MookGiants : 12/1/2019 9:08 pm : link
a poor signing if the Giants gave him a ton of money in free agency without trading for him.

It will be even worse if they give him a ton of money in free agency and gave up the 66th pick in the draft for the right to overpay him before he gets to free agency.

Anyone who defends trading for him is an imbecile. It made no sense on any level.
RE: See how he plays under a better defensive coordinator  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/1/2019 9:08 pm : link
In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix.

He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.


Hes a fifth year vet who has played for good defensive coaches.
RE: RE: See how he plays under a better defensive coordinator  
jcn56 : 12/1/2019 9:12 pm : link
In comment 14698723 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:


Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix.

He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.



Hes a fifth year vet who has played for good defensive coaches.


This is fool me once, fool me twice territory. He fell for it once with Ogletree and Wade Philips, now it's Williams and Gregg Williams. Gettleman has to stop trading picks for guys other teams have figured out should move on.
It's like  
MookGiants : 12/1/2019 9:13 pm : link
Gettleman looks at guys that are drafted in the 1st round and despite them not being anywhere near as good as where they were drafted thinks hey I got another first round caliber player.

Peppers stinks. Williams is just ok. Stop trading for other teams 1st round mediocre/bust players.
RE: Why can't I digest the fact that we traded a Day 2 pick in a wasted  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/1/2019 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14698503 Anakim said:
Quote:
season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.


It reminds me of the Mets in 2004 who were out of it at the trading deadline but traded Scott Kazmir (their best prospect) for Victor Zambrano (a mediocre injured lefty). The trade made no freakin sense.

The Giants remind me a lot of the Mets these days.
We're about to dole out...  
bw in dc : 12/1/2019 9:18 pm : link
$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.
RE: It's like  
hitdog42 : 12/1/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14698737 MookGiants said:
Quote:
Gettleman looks at guys that are drafted in the 1st round and despite them not being anywhere near as good as where they were drafted thinks hey I got another first round caliber player.

Peppers stinks. Williams is just ok. Stop trading for other teams 1st round mediocre/bust players.


Deadskins getting more out of flowers at no cost then the giants taking on the right to overpay Williams for picks
RE: RE: day 2  
section125 : 12/1/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14698597 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said:


Quote:


does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.



What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS.

PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.


Are they going to get a better player in the 3rd round than Williams? Could happen, yes, but it is highly unlikely. So they got Williams, a known entity, for a 3rd this year and a 5th next year, maybe a 4th.
RE: RE: RE: day 2  
MookGiants : 12/1/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14698776 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14698597 Justlurking said:


Quote:


In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said:


Quote:


does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.



What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS.

PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.



Are they going to get a better player in the 3rd round than Williams? Could happen, yes, but it is highly unlikely. So they got Williams, a known entity, for a 3rd this year and a 5th next year, maybe a 4th.


You're leaving out the part where he's going to cost 13+ million per year to keep.

That's the biggest part of it. He's not worth giving up a 3rd round pick and paying big money for.

Horrendous use of draft resources and Gettleman shouldn't be allowed to have the chance to make it even worse by giving him a ton of money.

Williams is not a difference maker.
I like the player and this team needs talent. I get it.  
George from PA : 12/1/2019 9:45 pm : link
We traded #66 pick plus for the right to overpay a decent player. Sounds crazy. Seems stupid. 1st, He must be signed.

Solid player...with possibly his best game still ahead, great attitude.....checks all the boxes.

If they draft Chase Young....with Lawrence, Baker, Connerly, Beal, Hill, Carter, Love, Ballentine, Tomilinson....makes them a very young defense... Peppers and Williams are their leaders.

I assume Shurmur is gone but do not expect DG to be going anywhere.....I am willing to give him more time.....even to overpay for a solid player
RE: I like the player and this team needs talent. I get it.  
jcn56 : 12/1/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14698794 George from PA said:
Quote:
We traded #66 pick plus for the right to overpay a decent player. Sounds crazy. Seems stupid. 1st, He must be signed.

Solid player...with possibly his best game still ahead, great attitude.....checks all the boxes.

If they draft Chase Young....with Lawrence, Baker, Connerly, Beal, Hill, Carter, Love, Ballentine, Tomilinson....makes them a very young defense... Peppers and Williams are their leaders.

I assume Shurmur is gone but do not expect DG to be going anywhere.....I am willing to give him more time.....even to overpay for a solid player


That's the same terrible logic that got Gettleman Shurmur, that 'his best work is ahead of him'.

Williams has been around for awhile. He is what he is - a good but not very good player who's going to be overpaid. And on top of it, these morons gave up a 3rd and a 4th for the right to overpay him.
Drafting a fancy RB with the #2 pick  
arniefez : 12/1/2019 10:05 pm : link
Trading a 4th round pick for Olgetree's contract. Trading a 3rd pick for URFA Williams and we haven't gotten to his free agent signings.

A few/two years from now after about 20-25 more losses in 32 games when the Maras finally get rid of Gettleman the rest of the NFL GMs are going to light a candle. He will be sorely missed by the other 31.
Holly smokes...  
trueblueinpw : 12/1/2019 10:05 pm : link
I canít believe thereís still people who donít understand why this trade made no sense and was detrimental to the Giants. LWs talent and impact have nothing to do with evaluating this trade. Heís a free agent at the end of the season. There was no reason to give draft picks to rent LW for some meaningless games in a lost season. We need draft picks. In fact, the better Williams plays for the Giants the worse this trade is because heíll demand more money and the Giants overall pick in the first round could, god forbid, go down.

Seriously, I donít like to criticize posters, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to have made this trade. Itís *the* dumbest trade I can remember in all the years Iíve been watching the NFL.

I donít like beating this dead horse either. But itís important to understand the pure incompetence Getty demonstrated by making this trade. Itís important to understand as well that this trade got past the owners. If youíre looking for a reason the Giants are so bad then look not further than Gettyís indefensible trade for LW.
Lets not over rate mid round draft picks  
Chip : 12/1/2019 10:20 pm : link
for a decade of Jerry Reese picks 3rd and 4ths have amounted to nothing.
RE: Lets not over rate mid round draft picks  
christian : 12/1/2019 10:23 pm : link
In comment 14698858 Chip said:
Quote:
for a decade of Jerry Reese picks 3rd and 4ths have amounted to nothing.


And that's a reason he did a bad job as a GM, no?
DG likely looked at this and said that Williams is a solid starting  
PatersonPlank : 12/1/2019 10:28 pm : link
DT in the NFL, and is only 25. So he's likely better than (or the same as) any guy they would draft in the 3rd. The draft is a crapshoot, so take the "bird in the hand" so to speak. Since he's young I'm ok with it. He will be here for like 5 years (like a draft choice) and he's likely better than anyone we would draft anyway (he is certainly less risk since he has proved he can start in the NFL).
i hated the trade when i first read about it  
japanhead : 12/1/2019 10:34 pm : link
but then i saw a couple of respected football minds on here (JonC, can't recall who else) defending the trade, claiming it was a good move. my impulse was to hate it, but this made me re-think my stance. i still hate it, but fully confess i don't know shit. supposedly williams was going to be better/more effective in a 3-4 i think was one of the things i recall being said to justify it.
RE: Drafting a fancy RB with the #2 pick  
huygens20 : 12/1/2019 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14698838 arniefez said:
Quote:
Trading a 4th round pick for Olgetree's contract. Trading a 3rd pick for URFA Williams and we haven't gotten to his free agent signings.

A few/two years from now after about 20-25 more losses in 32 games when the Maras finally get rid of Gettleman the rest of the NFL GMs are going to light a candle. He will be sorely missed by the other 31.


How about the fact that he gave Jonathan Stewart a 2 year contract
There is major risk....but many are assuming  
George from PA : 12/1/2019 10:36 pm : link
This player would be available in FA....the Giants have 2 vehicles to keep his services....he would not be a Giant next year without trade.

Assumption #2...this kind of player is readily available in FA. Maybe....not a given, if you ask me.

Yes, at a cost...but Giants are flushed with cap the next 2 years.

Yes, the 66th pick has value.....


The Giants need talent, leadership and the right attitude.



Meanwhile  
NikkiMac : 12/1/2019 10:38 pm : link
Big Dex hasnít done shit has no plays of impact this year or so far has a blocked FG big deal .... although his play of late actually since they got LW has gotten better for now the guy is big bust thatís why they acquired LW because before they couldnít stop shit as far as the running game .....And actually the only DL that are pulling theyíre weight are Tomlinson and Williams BJ Hill is getting easily pushed around ......
You guys realize LWís not signed by the Giants?  
trueblueinpw : 12/1/2019 10:47 pm : link
Getty traded picks for LW for 8 games. Heís a rental. LW is still a UFA at the end of the season. Any other team in the NFL can try to sign LW.


Aw fuck it, I give up.
RE: You guys realize LWís not signed by the Giants?  
huygens20 : 12/1/2019 10:50 pm : link
In comment 14698889 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Getty traded picks for LW for 8 games. Heís a rental. LW is still a UFA at the end of the season. Any other team in the NFL can try to sign LW.


Aw fuck it, I give up.


Stop using rationale and logic when arguing people that defend Gettleman

It wonít work
RE: We're about to dole out...  
Platos : 12/2/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14698746 bw in dc said:
Quote:
$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.


thats damn near aaron donald money... why do people really think he'll command that much???
RE: RE: We're about to dole out...  
Tesla : 12/2/2019 12:15 am : link
In comment 14698948 Platos said:
Quote:
In comment 14698746 bw in dc said:


Quote:


$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.



thats damn near aaron donald money... why do people really think he'll command that much???


Because they understand how free agency works. And they understand leverage. And they understand how the league is awash in cap space this offseason.
Stop with the Flowers BS  
Bluesbreaker : 12/2/2019 12:18 am : link
I can't name one person that wanted to keep him this
Site tarred and feathered him on a daily basis .
Gettleman  
Marty866b : 12/2/2019 12:25 am : link
Is a moron and posters here who have liked what he has done with this team are morons too.
RE: RE: We're about to dole out...  
bw in dc : 12/2/2019 12:43 am : link
In comment 14698948 Platos said:
Quote:
In comment 14698746 bw in dc said:


Quote:


$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.



thats damn near aaron donald money... why do people really think he'll command that much???


I went through this the other day with the DT contracts.

Donald is $22.5M/yr. Cox is roughly $17/yr, but that was signed in 2016. In the summer of 2018, Geno Atkins signed for $17M/yr. All quality players.

In between those times, the less heralded Jurrell Casey signed for $15M in 2017. He's averaged 6 sacks per year the last 6 years,

And more recently, Grady Jarrett signed fro $17Myr this summer. He's averaged over his career about 4.5 sacks per year.

So why wouldn't LW think (1) he's = or > than Casey and (2) he's as productive as Jarrett?

Unless Team LW is completely insane or incompetent, they are easily looking for $17M/yr.
RE: RE: RE: day 2  
HomerJones45 : 12/2/2019 12:55 am : link
In comment 14698776 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14698597 Justlurking said:


Quote:


In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said:


Quote:


does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.



What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS.

PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.



Are they going to get a better player in the 3rd round than Williams? Could happen, yes, but it is highly unlikely. So they got Williams, a known entity, for a 3rd this year and a 5th next year, maybe a 4th.
and many millions of dollars assuming they sign him. We did not get Williams for a couple of draft picks. We got the opportunity to pay him tens of millions of dollars before anyone else does. Oddly, they could have had Williams for the many millions of dollars and kept the draft picks, thus adding three desperately needed players instead of one.
I assume the plan is,  
solfish : 12/2/2019 12:59 am : link
now that we have him in the building is to put hallucinogens in his protein shakes and convince him to sign for like 7 years/50m while he's tripping balls.
One of the dumbest trades ever  
jeff57 : 12/2/2019 5:12 am : link
If Giants were contending for a playoff spot I could see it. But not only do you have to sign the guy, you gave up the chance to get someone 4-5 years younger, and a lot cheaper. The Collins comp pick will be 30 spots lower. Itís essentially an early 4th round pick, and you gave up what is essentially a late second round pick.
It was a bad trade  
Rick in Dallas : 12/2/2019 7:11 am : link
DG got fleeced by the Jets. To make matters worse we will probably sign him in the offseason to a big contract.
I saw him take plays off yesterday.
Man we are knee deep back into the 70ís.
I donít trust Mara anymore in making decisions on GMís and HCís.
It was totally sickening hearing the Packer chants in our stadium.
It is so hard watching these games now. You know what the outcome will be before the first kick.
RE: Everyone keeps talking about what we gave up, but  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/2/2019 7:39 am : link
In comment 14698578 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal? We complain about lack of talent, but he is a proven talent to build around if we keep him.

So let's say he gets $11/year. Who would we be signing for less? Everything is relative. He is solid and a talent. Not what he was hoped to be when drafted, but it looks like a solid move to me. Just my two bits.

FFS, don't correct people when you don't know what you're talking about. Unless you think they're just going to sit out free agency this year, or only sign players who were released, rather than those whose contracts expired, they're not getting a comp pick back for LW.

TL;DR: THEY'RE NOT GETTING A COMP PICK BACK FOR LEONARD WILLIAMS.
RE: L. Williams and D. Lawrence give us a good run defense  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/2/2019 7:42 am : link
In comment 14698682 SGMen said:
Quote:
for next year. Standout actually. I do believe Lawrence will develop as a pocket pusher type. Williams is what he is rushing the passer: quite average.

We essentially got a player we know can play though I do believe we overpaid a bit with a 3rd next year should we resign him. A 4th I could have lived with.

You should look up which teams are near the top of the current NFL run defense rankings to see if you think building a standout run defense is a winning strategy in the modern NFL.
RE: RE: We're about to dole out...  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/2/2019 7:56 am : link
In comment 14698948 Platos said:
Quote:
In comment 14698746 bw in dc said:


Quote:


$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.



thats damn near aaron donald money... why do people really think he'll command that much???

Because there is so much aggregate cap space available this offseason that it will create a vacuum into which decent players will get pulled up into a much higher pay scale due to the enormity of the available cap space.

Add to that the leverage that LW's agent has over DG, and the only way LW doesn't approach Aaron Donald's contract value is if he is signed before free agency begins, or if he simply decides that being a Giant at a reasonable number is worth more to him than breaking the bank.

The latter in particular is highly unlikely, but I suppose it's possible. Though if it does go down that way, you can still make the argument that the trade was unnecessary to acquire a player who was willing to give a discount to stay nearby anyway.
RE: RE: RE: We're about to dole out...  
christian : 12/2/2019 7:58 am : link
In comment 14698959 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Unless Team LW is completely insane or incompetent, they are easily looking for $17M/yr.


So you're saying LW isn't going to give the Giants a discount for the:

- Killer NJ tax rates
- The totally reasonable metro area cost of living
- The stability in the coaching and management
- All the recent winning
Giants are 2-9. 2-6 when the trade was made.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/2/2019 8:09 am : link
SHould have sold instead of bought. Its pretty clear that he made a mistake BECAUSE THE SEASON HAS PLAYED OUT. They haven't won a game. The move is indefensible.
RE: RE: You guys realize LWís not signed by the Giants?  
WalterSobchak : 12/2/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14698894 huygens20 said:
Quote:
In comment 14698889 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Getty traded picks for LW for 8 games. Heís a rental. LW is still a UFA at the end of the season. Any other team in the NFL can try to sign LW.


Aw fuck it, I give up.



Stop using rationale and logic when arguing people that defend Gettleman

It wonít work



Thank god there are some fans on this site that see this current dumpster fire franchise for what it is. This trade was mind numbingly stupid. What really pisses me off is the Jets were not going to overpay him and he would be a free agent. If we signed him as a FA , while I would not love it , it would not be terrible in theory. But to give what almost amounts to a low 2nd and a 4th next year and overpay him is a setback this awful franchise can't afford. This is only 1 of many terrible choices by Ghettoman , until he is gone I have no real hope as a fan.
RE: I like the player and this team needs talent. I get it.  
gmenatlarge : 12/2/2019 8:55 am : link
In comment 14698794 George from PA said:
Quote:
We traded #66 pick plus for the right to overpay a decent player. Sounds crazy. Seems stupid. 1st, He must be signed.

Solid player...with possibly his best game still ahead, great attitude.....checks all the boxes.

If they draft Chase Young....with Lawrence, Baker, Connerly, Beal, Hill, Carter, Love, Ballentine, Tomilinson....makes them a very young defense... Peppers and Williams are their leaders.

I assume Shurmur is gone but do not expect DG to be going anywhere.....I am willing to give him more time.....even to overpay for a solid player


How is his best game still ahead of him? HE is playing for a contract right now so this is pretty much Williams at his best...which is not so great, so yeah let's throw $15M per year plus at an ordinary player.
I understand the theory behind it...but it's a bad move!  
Kanavis : 12/2/2019 9:06 am : link
Yes, DEs don't grow on trees, but this deal was terrible.

1. Being here for these 8 games during losing, turmoil, and then the eventually a coaching change and associated chaos will make him LESS likely to sign than if he had never been here at all.
2. Having expended picks for him gives HIM the leverage and puts us at a disadvantage. We might have to pay more than we would have had we simply signed him during the off-season.
3. Our pick is going to be very high in the 3rd round. And anyone who thought otherwise when we made the trade, wasn't watching football.
4. Perhaps there is some advanced analytic stat that tells us his impact is higher than what is visible. I have heard that before regarding a player. His name was Vernon.

Worst of all, this is DG going in two directions at the same time again.

We are making a run - keep Eli, a RB, trade pick for Ogletree.

Didn't work

We need to rebuild - Sell best players and acquire picks. Draft players to replace the ones we sold.

We are making a run - even know we sold last year and drafted a QB, keep Eli at 23 million but get a few veterans to help us on our run.

Didn't work...

We need to rebuild - Bench Eli and play the younger players and Jones

Didn't work

We are making a run? Trade a 3rd round pick to have LW for 8 games?

This franchise has never full committed to the rebuild. If you sell players for assets then you must keep going. This was a random shot during a ridiculous season. We don't even know what scheme the next DC will run. What are they doing?
Jabrill Peppers  
jacob12 : 12/2/2019 2:53 pm : link
Jabrill Peppers is an explosive athlete. Sy wrote that Peppers could be a terror on defense if the Giants add a few excellent players. He said that Peppers is the one guy on defense who could be a playmaker and a leader.

Jabrill has a high ceiling and he should be an outstanding safety-linebacker and a superb punt returner.
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