Leonard Williams

season for a fucking UFA?

Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy...

Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

And see what happens.

It’s just a really terrible trade by DG.

For this guy. But even calling it what it is, a high third, it's a valuable pick. Now you can look at the Giants recent draft history (recent as in, oh, last decade or so) and say third round picks aren't worth a damn. But a competent front office can find value there. Part of that value is you're getting a cheap player.

For the obvious reasons. But 2 things. First, he’s probably the best DL on the team and I suspect he would be better if they pick a good ER who would draw more attention. Down the road, he and Lawrence will be a formidable duo. Second, and this is maybe more in the hope department, maybe the Giants owe the Jets a 3rd round pick not necessarily their 3rd round pick. I’m hoping Gettleman realized this was going to be a very high pick and took steps to prevent that from happening,

That said, no one will offer Williams mega bucks and we’ll definitely overpay for him but he has to be signed

does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.

.

In comment 14698533 Samiam said:

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For the obvious reasons. But 2 things. First, he’s probably the best DL on the team and I suspect he would be better if they pick a good ER who would draw more attention. Down the road, he and Lawrence will be a formidable duo. Second, and this is maybe more in the hope department, maybe the Giants owe the Jets a 3rd round pick not necessarily their 3rd round pick. I’m hoping Gettleman realized this was going to be a very high pick and took steps to prevent that from happening, That said, no one will offer Williams mega bucks and we’ll definitely overpay for him but he has to be signed

You’re giving Gettleman too much credit. He’s a dope. He didn’t prevent anything.

No one runs on us anymore. I’m happy with his play.

To save face in the league whether we want him or not.

the fact that Gettleman is unlikely to spend every dollar of the 2020 free cap $, we'll be able to afford the transition tag on LW to buy some time before having to make a long-term contract decision. If we land Chase Young, + everyone else on the D-Line will have an added year of experience, LW could suddenly shine with little attention paid to him by the offense... and then maybe all of a sudden we have a decent pass-rush /front-7 in general. Even just the addition of Bosa to the 9ers seems to have turned that defense around quickly.

(No question though- I think we need a new DC to come in and breathe life into these guys... I'd love it if we could just go ahead and sign the 49ers D-Line coach as our DC immediately at season's end, that guy is apparently super intense.)

Either way, this is a lost season, and difficult to judge any one player right now in this environment... and if LW does turn out to be a quality player in the right scheme with the right supporting cast, then it will have been a good move. So, I'm reserving judgement for the time being, but no question at this very moment if we could do it over again I say keep that high 3rd rounder.

We'll see.

it's a 2021 5th that becomes a 4th if he is signed.

If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal? We complain about lack of talent, but he is a proven talent to build around if we keep him.

So let's say he gets $11/year. Who would we be signing for less? Everything is relative. He is solid and a talent. Not what he was hoped to be when drafted, but it looks like a solid move to me. Just my two bits.

Seems best to transition tag him and see what happens. The league knows what he his hard to imagine somebody is going to break the bank for him

In comment 14698503 Anakim said:

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season for a fucking UFA? Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy... Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

No, you haven't. People have defended and continue to defend this GM malpractice. He's the worst GM in the league by far and needs to "retire" after this season.

so could the 3rd be the later comp pick?

In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said:

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does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet.

What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS.

PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.

Over and over and over again. At least once a day. We traded a “ low second,” “he is going to be a udfa,” “he is going to get too much money” and on and on. Give it up already. If he is as horrible as you guys think he is then why would he get this gigantic contract?! He is a starting defensive lineman in the nfl. That’s pretty damn good for a 3rd round pick. He is excellent in run d. Gets qb pressures and holding penalties. He isn’t an edge rusher in this d so he isn’t going to get sacks. That’s not his task. The complaining about this trade is just so tired. He isn’t the reason we lose these games. And no 3rd round pick is going to be the reason we all of a sudden are a playoff team.

In comment 14698578 Mike in Prescott said:

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If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal? We complain about lack of talent, but he is a proven talent to build around if we keep him. So let's say he gets $11/year. Who would we be signing for less? Everything is relative. He is solid and a talent. Not what he was hoped to be when drafted, but it looks like a solid move to me. Just my two bits.

This is completely false. They get NO FUCKING COMP PICK UNLESS THEY DONT USE THEIR 90 MILLION OF CAP ROOM. It was an idiotic trade with ZERO justification. Fireable offense.

In comment 14698578 Mike in Prescott said:

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If we don't sign him, we get a comp back. So if we spent a 3rd, but get a 3rd or 4th back in the comp formula, is it still a bad deal?

I think it is possible that you do not understand how the comp pick formula works.

It is not applied to each free agent individually but the net free agent signings/losses. Given how much money we have next year, even if we do lose LW, there is an excellent chance that we will sign more valuable free agents than we lose.

In comment 14698601 KJG5173 said:

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Over and over and over again. At least once a day. We traded a “ low second,” “he is going to be a udfa,” “he is going to get too much money” and on and on. Give it up already. If he is as horrible as you guys think he is then why would he get this gigantic contract?! He is a starting defensive lineman in the nfl. That’s pretty damn good for a 3rd round pick. He is excellent in run d. Gets qb pressures and holding penalties. He isn’t an edge rusher in this d so he isn’t going to get sacks. That’s not his task. The complaining about this trade is just so tired. He isn’t the reason we lose these games. And no 3rd round pick is going to be the reason we all of a sudden are a playoff team.

He isn't worth what some bad team (probably the giants) will pay him. The multiple wasted assets of Gettleman will be the reason we are a losing franchise, not just team. Defending this abortion of a franchise is tired. We are the worst run team in the NFL.

His play has lowered his value. However, based on what DG gave up the team almost has to sign him

In comment 14698503 Anakim said:

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season for a fucking UFA? Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy... Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

You are not the only one who is baffled. If the Giants sign Williams for next year, they threw away a 3rd round pick. If Williams walks, they get a comp pick that may be lower than the one they traded away. Am I missing something?

In comment 14698596 V.I.G. said:

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so could the 3rd be the later comp pick?

Trading for Williams doesn't affect the third round comp pick we expect to get for Williams. But we traded our pick, not the comp pick. You can't trade a pick that hasn't been awarded.

In comment 14698634 AcidTest said:

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In comment 14698596 V.I.G. said: Quote: so could the 3rd be the later comp pick? Trading for Williams doesn't affect the third round comp pick we expect to get for Williams. But we traded our pick, not the comp pick. You can't trade a pick that hasn't been awarded.

For Collins.

Why don't you stop lurking for a moment and tell us what you think of Williams and the GM?

Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix.

He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.

In comment 14698615 Beer Man said:

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His play has lowered his value. However, based on what DG gave up the team almost has to sign him

How is that good, this is the best this guy has in his walk year! Do you think he will play better when they pay him more? Doubtful, let him walk!

And fans here would rather defend Gettleshit than to admit this truth

An UDFA @2-7 that’s gonna be a a 62-65th pick

Gettleman is literally the worst gm in the league at this point. He took the first offer he got for OBJ, traded up for a rookie CB that’s struggling mightly, and has drafted several DL guys that haven’t worked out yet

Fire gettleshit already

Well, you're bad at posting, son there's that. Just my opinion. What is a GM's job? To acquire talent by any means possible. That was Gettleman's goal with the trade. He acquired LW as a building block he fully intends to retain. My issue with it, is there are a number of draft picks on the DL already. Some of those picks are now rendered expendable and wasted. Can't afford to do that while rebuilding.

for next year. Standout actually. I do believe Lawrence will develop as a pocket pusher type. Williams is what he is rushing the passer: quite average.

We essentially got a player we know can play though I do believe we overpaid a bit with a 3rd next year should we resign him. A 4th I could have lived with.

But. Don’t we have to wait and see if he signs before making a judgement.

Most all the comments are complaining about him being a FA. Would things be different for you if they signed him long term when traded???

If yes than all you are being is impatient and screaming BUT I WAnt to know now!

Again I wouldn’t have made the trade but he is a good player and I will just wait and see what he ends up signing for, than I’ll scream about it.

In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said:

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Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix. He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.

The transition tag is not a tender. That's not how it works at all.

What comp is $11M/yr?

granted, the Giants don't exactly have a formidable DL, but I haven't seen Williams do anything that would point to him being their best.

He's managed a couple of pressures, and he was doubled quite a bit last week, but in both cases the play of the DL wasn't improved much over what was there in the beginning of the season.

DG traded away a 3rd+ for the rights to pay good money for that? On a team that's got so many holes it can use every player it can get, but happened to be OK at the interior DL spot.

If DG were on trial for incompetence, this would be the first bit of evidence.

And let's stop talking about the possible comp pick. Even if Williams walks and gets a fortune, they have a lot of cap space and tons of holes, they're going to be net spenders.

In comment 14698503 Anakim said:

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season for a fucking UFA? Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy... Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

This should be the cause needed to fire DG. He’s been horrible. Outside of the preseason hype of his young picks, he’s been dreadful. Time to go outside the box with young guys in the FO and HC spots.

a poor signing if the Giants gave him a ton of money in free agency without trading for him.

It will be even worse if they give him a ton of money in free agency and gave up the 66th pick in the draft for the right to overpay him before he gets to free agency.

Anyone who defends trading for him is an imbecile. It made no sense on any level.

In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said:

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Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix. He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up.

Hes a fifth year vet who has played for good defensive coaches.

In comment 14698723 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 14698653 Giantz_comeback said: Quote: Before giving up on him. Also lets see if we get Young to add to the mix. He's also not going to sign a monster deal. And the first year cap hit likely to be structured as favorable. Also what if we transition tag him at 2nd round comp? We lose him we get a higher pick than we gave up. Hes a fifth year vet who has played for good defensive coaches.

This is fool me once, fool me twice territory. He fell for it once with Ogletree and Wade Philips, now it's Williams and Gregg Williams. Gettleman has to stop trading picks for guys other teams have figured out should move on.

Gettleman looks at guys that are drafted in the 1st round and despite them not being anywhere near as good as where they were drafted thinks hey I got another first round caliber player.

Peppers stinks. Williams is just ok. Stop trading for other teams 1st round mediocre/bust players.

In comment 14698503 Anakim said:

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season for a fucking UFA? Honestly, what the hell was Gettleman thinking? We traded a DAY 2 PICK for a guy... Never mind. I beat this dead horse enough.

It reminds me of the Mets in 2004 who were out of it at the trading deadline but traded Scott Kazmir (their best prospect) for Victor Zambrano (a mediocre injured lefty). The trade made no freakin sense.

The Giants remind me a lot of the Mets these days.

$17M/yr, along with a 3rd and 5th round pick, for a player who will get us 5-7 sacks per year, have some TFL, bat down a few passes, and be decent against the run.

Tremendous.

In comment 14698737 MookGiants said:

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Gettleman looks at guys that are drafted in the 1st round and despite them not being anywhere near as good as where they were drafted thinks hey I got another first round caliber player. Peppers stinks. Williams is just ok. Stop trading for other teams 1st round mediocre/bust players.

Deadskins getting more out of flowers at no cost then the giants taking on the right to overpay Williams for picks

In comment 14698597 Justlurking said:

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In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said: Quote: does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet. What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS. PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football.

Are they going to get a better player in the 3rd round than Williams? Could happen, yes, but it is highly unlikely. So they got Williams, a known entity, for a 3rd this year and a 5th next year, maybe a 4th.

In comment 14698776 section125 said:

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In comment 14698597 Justlurking said: Quote: In comment 14698544 RedZone88 said: Quote: does not guarantee a solid pick. You really can't complain yet. What? You are 2-6. Your draft picks are your most valuable assets. You cannot be trading them away. They need to acquire picks not piss them away for FREE AGENTS. PS Leonard Williams isn't good at football. Are they going to get a better player in the 3rd round than Williams? Could happen, yes, but it is highly unlikely. So they got Williams, a known entity, for a 3rd this year and a 5th next year, maybe a 4th.

You're leaving out the part where he's going to cost 13+ million per year to keep.

That's the biggest part of it. He's not worth giving up a 3rd round pick and paying big money for.

Horrendous use of draft resources and Gettleman shouldn't be allowed to have the chance to make it even worse by giving him a ton of money.

Williams is not a difference maker.

We traded #66 pick plus for the right to overpay a decent player. Sounds crazy. Seems stupid. 1st, He must be signed.

Solid player...with possibly his best game still ahead, great attitude.....checks all the boxes.

If they draft Chase Young....with Lawrence, Baker, Connerly, Beal, Hill, Carter, Love, Ballentine, Tomilinson....makes them a very young defense... Peppers and Williams are their leaders.

I assume Shurmur is gone but do not expect DG to be going anywhere.....I am willing to give him more time.....even to overpay for a solid player

In comment 14698794 George from PA said:

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We traded #66 pick plus for the right to overpay a decent player. Sounds crazy. Seems stupid. 1st, He must be signed. Solid player...with possibly his best game still ahead, great attitude.....checks all the boxes. If they draft Chase Young....with Lawrence, Baker, Connerly, Beal, Hill, Carter, Love, Ballentine, Tomilinson....makes them a very young defense... Peppers and Williams are their leaders. I assume Shurmur is gone but do not expect DG to be going anywhere.....I am willing to give him more time.....even to overpay for a solid player

That's the same terrible logic that got Gettleman Shurmur, that 'his best work is ahead of him'.

Williams has been around for awhile. He is what he is - a good but not very good player who's going to be overpaid. And on top of it, these morons gave up a 3rd and a 4th for the right to overpay him.

Trading a 4th round pick for Olgetree's contract. Trading a 3rd pick for URFA Williams and we haven't gotten to his free agent signings.

A few/two years from now after about 20-25 more losses in 32 games when the Maras finally get rid of Gettleman the rest of the NFL GMs are going to light a candle. He will be sorely missed by the other 31.

I can’t believe there’s still people who don’t understand why this trade made no sense and was detrimental to the Giants. LWs talent and impact have nothing to do with evaluating this trade. He’s a free agent at the end of the season. There was no reason to give draft picks to rent LW for some meaningless games in a lost season. We need draft picks. In fact, the better Williams plays for the Giants the worse this trade is because he’ll demand more money and the Giants overall pick in the first round could, god forbid, go down.

Seriously, I don’t like to criticize posters, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to have made this trade. It’s *the* dumbest trade I can remember in all the years I’ve been watching the NFL.

I don’t like beating this dead horse either. But it’s important to understand the pure incompetence Getty demonstrated by making this trade. It’s important to understand as well that this trade got past the owners. If you’re looking for a reason the Giants are so bad then look not further than Getty’s indefensible trade for LW.

for a decade of Jerry Reese picks 3rd and 4ths have amounted to nothing.

In comment 14698858 Chip said:

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for a decade of Jerry Reese picks 3rd and 4ths have amounted to nothing.

And that's a reason he did a bad job as a GM, no?