Have we heard from any of the reliable bbi asshats on what they are hearing in terms of shurmur and gettlemans future? They seemed to be fairly accurate during FA with insider info
The Giants are greasing the skids/guillotine for Shurmur. He'll be gone on Black Monday. The Pre and Post game are all over him and there are plants in the papers indicating such. The question in my mind is this: Does Gettleman go too? That I'm not sure of. I tend to think he stays, but as in Matt in SGS pointed out on another thread, the next hire will be the last one under his regime.
In this organization, the Head Coach and QB are joint decisions by ownership and the GM. Hell, Coughlin wouldn't have been hired in 2004 had it been up to Accorsi. That was Welly's hire. John Mara will follow suit and approve this hire, but I wonder if Gettleman is part of the process or just told to "retire" instead. That's what I want to know.
If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
You're in overdrive - on the other thread you say it was Shurmur not Gettleman who wanted OBJ out, now Gettleman had no say in hiring Shurmur.
What's next - Shurmur waterboarded Gettleman until he traded for Leonard Williams?
I get that he needs all the help he can get, but that doesn't excuse just pulling it out of your ass. He hired Shurmur, the 'adult in the room' - and I'm sure Mara had his say as well. And he's the one who traded OBJ..
Quote:
in fairness to gettleman,
japanhead : 9:17 pm : link : reply
i think he's made every effort to accommodate his coaches and their vision. i'm no insider, but supposedly it was shurmur who wanted beckham gone. shurmur who wanted to draft lauletta. bettcher who wanted bethea and ogletree.
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
didn't hire the coach, didn't make the major roster decisions (trading for Ogletree, trading OBJ), didn't decide to keep Eli, but somehow is considered the GM and lauded for the picks that his supporters actually believe are good (despite any empirical evidence to support).
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
better. shurmur being the third or fourth choice is something i read here, from a more credible poster.
i also think the obj trade was a good move, no matter if shurmur hated beckham, or gettleman and shurmur both hated beckham.
my only point, at all, is that gettleman is not the sole arbiter of personnel decisions or staff hires, so that laying everything 100% at his feet is probably misguided.
this is likely one of the bigger issues with the franchise- that the basic structure is collaborative to the point that it is a too many cooks spoiling the soup situation.
that all said i 100% believe shurmur is a far bigger problem than gettleman is.
ultimately i'd like to see mara bring in a head of football operations and let them go to work and relinquish control completely.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
That's fucking laughable - it requires someone to actually believe Ogletree is a good linebacker, not just the same shit the Giants have had forever, just paid a lot more and at the expense two draft picks to acquire.
Faith in Gettleman? Faith might be the only way he turns out to be a useful GM. Start praying now and hope for divine intervention, because nothing he's done thus far should give you reason to believe he's going to right this ship.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
are you joking?
we traded a 4th round pick for a guy who plays at below replacement level performance--- and we have to pay him a shit ton of money every year for below avg performance.
at least with Jerry when our LBers sucked, it meant that we were spending $ elsewhere on the team.
With DG, not only do our LBers suck, they are taking up a lot of capsace
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
There is nothing we can say to those who support Gettletrash that will convince them otherwise
not hanging Solder's contract over the neck of Eli
not signing Jonathan Stewart to 4m/year & then drafting Barkley to pay him 5m/year
not trading for a below average mLB and hanging that contract over Mara's neck
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
not trading away the entire core of the defense (jpp/vernon) and getting NOTHINg so far in return
yeah none of those things
this roster is so bad, you can barely even say that they are underperforming.
Hello?? the team is 2-9 and we can't even argue that they are underperforming. it took 2-9 for the "fire Shurmur" chorus to finally reach the streets. Is that an indictment on Shurmur?
Is the fact that the defensive roster for 2 years straight been complete utter garbage shurmurs fault? butchers fault?
is the fact that there are "starters" on this defense playing 60 snaps a game who wouldn't even SNIFF 10 snaps on an average defense Shurmurs fault? Bettchers fault?
I cannot believe how much contorting people put themselves through to argue that
1/ Shurmur is "definitely" underperforming given his roster
2/ bettcher has so much talent on this defense!!!!
---> yeah lets just fire Shurmur instead of addressing the real issue:
the guy who puts the roster together and approves all of the drafts, FAs, and coaches.
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
There is nothing we can say to those who support Gettletrash that will convince them otherwise
not hanging Solder's contract over the neck of Eli
not signing Jonathan Stewart to 4m/year & then drafting Barkley to pay him 5m/year
not trading for a below average mLB and hanging that contract over Mara's neck
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
not trading away the entire core of the defense (jpp/vernon) and getting NOTHINg so far in return
yeah none of those things
this roster is so bad, you can barely even say that they are underperforming.
Hello?? the team is 2-9 and we can't even argue that they are underperforming. it took 2-9 for the "fire Shurmur" chorus to finally reach the streets. Is that an indictment on Shurmur?
Is the fact that the defensive roster for 2 years straight been complete utter garbage shurmurs fault? butchers fault?
is the fact that there are "starters" on this defense playing 60 snaps a game who wouldn't even SNIFF 10 snaps on an average defense Shurmurs fault? Bettchers fault?
I cannot believe how much contorting people put themselves through to argue that
1/ Shurmur is "definitely" underperforming given his roster
2/ bettcher has so much talent on this defense!!!!
---> yeah lets just fire Shurmur instead of addressing the real issue:
the guy who puts the roster together and approves all of the drafts, FAs, and coaches.
They defend Gettleman because they like him. He's a big, fat "plain talker" and he has contempt for the press and for elitist nerds. They loved when he made fun of nerdy analytics guys "pretend typing" and they love when he was trolling the media. He reminds them of themselves and what they want to be. He is reminiscent of another big, fat ignoramus who abhors facts. But really he is just stupid and his tenure is rife with colossal mistakes.
Why can't the Giants get ahead of the curve for once. The best team in the league has a 27 year old geek on the headset with the coach all game long. Do you think that's a fucking coincidence? The fan base should be begging that the Giants employ the best state of the art analytics program in the league. It's what the Yankees do. Why don't we?
Why in today’s age where data and analytics iare considered absolutely a priority in all major sports, did Mara hire a guy who thinks it’s funny to make fun of said analytics?
Who thinks a RB is divinely sent? Who fell in love with a QB after watching a senior bowl practice. Who ignores the value of draft picks, assuming he “likes” a player. Ogletree and Williams are two prime examples where Gettleman ignored the data AND paid dearly in draft picks.
How many defense tackles has he acquired over the past two seasons. And yet, compare that to how many edge rushers.
Everybody and their brother knew tsking a RB at the second slot in the draft is poor strategy. You just don’t tie up so much of your cap in a position where the average career span is less than five years.
Shurmur is a horrible coach but Gettleman is his equal as a game.
Better to let new GM chose (with Mara) the next HC. I am not so sure the Giants will attract the best talent unless ownership takes a step back. I also believe that hitting on a new GM and HC will not be easy. Some of the names mentioned like Tomlin not so sure will be available. Garrett failed at Dallas.
For all the DG hate people rarely mention that he drafted our QB. Some do not like the pick. Ownership should make it clear to the new regime that DG stays.
The last bit of information was a few weeks ago. Â
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
Amazing that a random poster here on BBI knows all of the offers we received from other teams.
Based upon OBJs performance the 18 months leading up to his trade AND his production this year, it seems like a fair trade.
The laws of supply and demand are always an indication of reality... not your perception of reality. If other teams felt like giving up more for OBJ, then you would have seen a different trade.
I was not a fan of hiring Gettleman but you have to look at these things objectively. Those who defend him at all costs are not being objective. Neither are you... or you just dont know WTF you are talking about. Pick one...
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
Amazing that a random poster here on BBI knows all of the offers we received from other teams.
Based upon OBJs performance the 18 months leading up to his trade AND his production this year, it seems like a fair trade.
The laws of supply and demand are always an indication of reality... not your perception of reality. If other teams felt like giving up more for OBJ, then you would have seen a different trade.
I was not a fan of hiring Gettleman but you have to look at these things objectively. Those who defend him at all costs are not being objective. Neither are you... or you just dont know WTF you are talking about. Pick one...
and its combing over not cumming over.. Unless they were offering nude cheerleaders.
RE: The last bit of information was a few weeks ago. Â
Bettcher was a dead man walking then. Shurmur was staying.
Now? I can't foresee any scenario where the entire coaching staff is kept. DG will survive.
From what I have been told through channels is Shurmur is gone as well. Have not heard anything about DG staying or going. I'll reach out to my friend who has a friend in the organization and see if he has any new info. Hopefully they ran into each other over the holiday weekend
DG is responsible for the entire team, the coach, the players. If SHurmur is gone, DG has to go. If DG stays I want Shurmur to stay too. They have to live and die together.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
You can apply to the "Defenders of the Faith" club by contacting www.nygiantchuckleheadfans.com. Once they process your application you will be asked to send your size and a jacket with your name embroidered on it will be sent to you. Please wear it when posting comments such as the above in the future.
Thank you
RE: im not making shit up to make gettleman look Â
better. shurmur being the third or fourth choice is something i read here, from a more credible poster.
i also think the obj trade was a good move, no matter if shurmur hated beckham, or gettleman and shurmur both hated beckham.
my only point, at all, is that gettleman is not the sole arbiter of personnel decisions or staff hires, so that laying everything 100% at his feet is probably misguided.
this is likely one of the bigger issues with the franchise- that the basic structure is collaborative to the point that it is a too many cooks spoiling the soup situation.
that all said i 100% believe shurmur is a far bigger problem than gettleman is.
ultimately i'd like to see mara bring in a head of football operations and let them go to work and relinquish control completely.
If all of these decisions are group decisions, I assume you also consider the fact that many of the draft picks you like may not have been the guy DG wanted? Or are only the poor decisions group decisions?
If he doesn't get credit for the free agents and trades, please also be sure to disperse credit for picks like Jones or Slayton which may have also been forced on him.
I doubt that pick was forced on him. But it certainly was a collaborative decision. Both Shurmur and Gettleman talk about Jones like he walks on water.
From the BBI coaching list - assistant level / unit lebel Â
Banks and Papa were just killing the coaching staff, naing Bettcher and Shurmur. I doubt that happens if the word wasn't out.
Just my 2 cents, but am I supposed to believe that all of these high draft picks, many of whom showed promise last year, all suck and can't play? I doubt it. The coaching sucks. nobody improves, and they don't play to the strengths of the players drafted. SPielman was KILLIN Bettcher on the TV yesterday, one specific instance were he froze the aerial of their zone, nobody in front of them, but nobody looking behond them, asked why they are "covering grass". No pass ruxsh, but play asoft zone? Against Aaron Rodgers?? WTF.
And now they have Barkley playing out of McAdoo's enpty backfield shot gun. UGH.
Whoever the nes coah is, NO WCO PLEASE!
I have not heard an in-game color commentator like Spielman Â
make such pointed comments like that in quite a while.
Usually they give their insight in parallel with giving the coaches some benefit of the doubt, but Spielman was basically saying the Giant defense hasn't a clue as to what they should be doing.
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
That is not how it works in the NFL. If you think he did not shop the guy, then you and all of the other believers are nuts. Just because he made that comment? None of us believe Gettleman when he opens his mouth anyway. So, why believe that statement about not shopping a player? By the way, he is correct about coming from a position of weakness in a negotiation.
The entire world could see the situation and challenges the Giants were having with OBJ. Any GM who coveted OBJ would pick up the phone and initiate a discussion about his availability.
We can all wish for a new GM but that does not mean everything he did was wrong.
Bottom line...
Nobody knows whether other teams truly had interest
Nobody knows whether DG "shopped" him around the league
Nobody knows what the other offers were outside of what we got from Cleveland
Keep speculating
RE: i am saying mara has a say in coaching hires Â
No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
That is not how it works in the NFL. If you think he did not shop the guy, then you and all of the other believers are nuts. Just because he made that comment? None of us believe Gettleman when he opens his mouth anyway. So, why believe that statement about not shopping a player? By the way, he is correct about coming from a position of weakness in a negotiation.
The entire world could see the situation and challenges the Giants were having with OBJ. Any GM who coveted OBJ would pick up the phone and initiate a discussion about his availability.
We can all wish for a new GM but that does not mean everything he did was wrong.
Bottom line...
Nobody knows whether other teams truly had interest
Nobody knows whether DG "shopped" him around the league
Nobody knows what the other offers were outside of what we got from Cleveland
Keep speculating
It's not speculating when one shares their opinion on something the GM states as fact. Whether it is a fact or not, I have no idea. However, you are speculating that what he said was a lie.
Keep on having faith in the personnel genius who has taken a 3 win team and in two years, delivered you a possibly less than 3 win team.
If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
You're in overdrive - on the other thread you say it was Shurmur not Gettleman who wanted OBJ out, now Gettleman had no say in hiring Shurmur.
What's next - Shurmur waterboarded Gettleman until he traded for Leonard Williams?
No, he just tickled him until he couldn't stand it any longer.
In this organization, the Head Coach and QB are joint decisions by ownership and the GM. Hell, Coughlin wouldn't have been hired in 2004 had it been up to Accorsi. That was Welly's hire. John Mara will follow suit and approve this hire, but I wonder if Gettleman is part of the process or just told to "retire" instead. That's what I want to know.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
Quote:
If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
You're in overdrive - on the other thread you say it was Shurmur not Gettleman who wanted OBJ out, now Gettleman had no say in hiring Shurmur.
What's next - Shurmur waterboarded Gettleman until he traded for Leonard Williams?
it has nothing to do with OBJ. what the fuck are you talking about?
in fairness to gettleman,
japanhead : 9:17 pm : link : reply
i think he's made every effort to accommodate his coaches and their vision. i'm no insider, but supposedly it was shurmur who wanted beckham gone. shurmur who wanted to draft lauletta. bettcher who wanted bethea and ogletree.
i don't think gettleman is just going it alone and saying fuck what his coaches want. i got the sense that that might've been the case a bit with reese/ross and coughlin, but not here.
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
i also think the obj trade was a good move, no matter if shurmur hated beckham, or gettleman and shurmur both hated beckham.
my only point, at all, is that gettleman is not the sole arbiter of personnel decisions or staff hires, so that laying everything 100% at his feet is probably misguided.
this is likely one of the bigger issues with the franchise- that the basic structure is collaborative to the point that it is a too many cooks spoiling the soup situation.
that all said i 100% believe shurmur is a far bigger problem than gettleman is.
ultimately i'd like to see mara bring in a head of football operations and let them go to work and relinquish control completely.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
That's fucking laughable - it requires someone to actually believe Ogletree is a good linebacker, not just the same shit the Giants have had forever, just paid a lot more and at the expense two draft picks to acquire.
Faith in Gettleman? Faith might be the only way he turns out to be a useful GM. Start praying now and hope for divine intervention, because nothing he's done thus far should give you reason to believe he's going to right this ship.
lol
ogletree wasnt trash before he got here... would you rather JT Thomas? Cassilas? ooh how about jameel mclain?
its not DG's fault mara didn't want to let go of manning making our head coach prospects slim to none.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
are you joking?
we traded a 4th round pick for a guy who plays at below replacement level performance--- and we have to pay him a shit ton of money every year for below avg performance.
at least with Jerry when our LBers sucked, it meant that we were spending $ elsewhere on the team.
With DG, not only do our LBers suck, they are taking up a lot of capsace
Quote:
is this what the DG hate is still about?
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
There is nothing we can say to those who support Gettletrash that will convince them otherwise
not hanging Solder's contract over the neck of Eli
not signing Jonathan Stewart to 4m/year & then drafting Barkley to pay him 5m/year
not trading for a below average mLB and hanging that contract over Mara's neck
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
not trading away the entire core of the defense (jpp/vernon) and getting NOTHINg so far in return
yeah none of those things
this roster is so bad, you can barely even say that they are underperforming.
Hello?? the team is 2-9 and we can't even argue that they are underperforming. it took 2-9 for the "fire Shurmur" chorus to finally reach the streets. Is that an indictment on Shurmur?
Is the fact that the defensive roster for 2 years straight been complete utter garbage shurmurs fault? butchers fault?
is the fact that there are "starters" on this defense playing 60 snaps a game who wouldn't even SNIFF 10 snaps on an average defense Shurmurs fault? Bettchers fault?
I cannot believe how much contorting people put themselves through to argue that
1/ Shurmur is "definitely" underperforming given his roster
2/ bettcher has so much talent on this defense!!!!
---> yeah lets just fire Shurmur instead of addressing the real issue:
the guy who puts the roster together and approves all of the drafts, FAs, and coaches.
If anyone needs to get fired, its Gettleman.
He let Mara get robbed by the Jets.
the team was 2-7 and he traded the #63rd pick for an unrestricted free agent.
at 2-7. and what do we get in return?
Another big fat contract to hang over Mara's neck.
Quote:
In comment 14698920 Platos said:
Quote:
is this what the DG hate is still about?
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
There is nothing we can say to those who support Gettletrash that will convince them otherwise
not hanging Solder's contract over the neck of Eli
not signing Jonathan Stewart to 4m/year & then drafting Barkley to pay him 5m/year
not trading for a below average mLB and hanging that contract over Mara's neck
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
not trading away the entire core of the defense (jpp/vernon) and getting NOTHINg so far in return
yeah none of those things
this roster is so bad, you can barely even say that they are underperforming.
Hello?? the team is 2-9 and we can't even argue that they are underperforming. it took 2-9 for the "fire Shurmur" chorus to finally reach the streets. Is that an indictment on Shurmur?
Is the fact that the defensive roster for 2 years straight been complete utter garbage shurmurs fault? butchers fault?
is the fact that there are "starters" on this defense playing 60 snaps a game who wouldn't even SNIFF 10 snaps on an average defense Shurmurs fault? Bettchers fault?
I cannot believe how much contorting people put themselves through to argue that
1/ Shurmur is "definitely" underperforming given his roster
2/ bettcher has so much talent on this defense!!!!
---> yeah lets just fire Shurmur instead of addressing the real issue:
the guy who puts the roster together and approves all of the drafts, FAs, and coaches.
If anyone needs to get fired, its Gettleman.
fucking BINGO!!!
Why can't the Giants get ahead of the curve for once. The best team in the league has a 27 year old geek on the headset with the coach all game long. Do you think that's a fucking coincidence? The fan base should be begging that the Giants employ the best state of the art analytics program in the league. It's what the Yankees do. Why don't we?
Who thinks a RB is divinely sent? Who fell in love with a QB after watching a senior bowl practice. Who ignores the value of draft picks, assuming he “likes” a player. Ogletree and Williams are two prime examples where Gettleman ignored the data AND paid dearly in draft picks.
How many defense tackles has he acquired over the past two seasons. And yet, compare that to how many edge rushers.
Everybody and their brother knew tsking a RB at the second slot in the draft is poor strategy. You just don’t tie up so much of your cap in a position where the average career span is less than five years.
Shurmur is a horrible coach but Gettleman is his equal as a game.
They both need to go.
phillsimms
andymilligan
and mcL
its good to know that there are people out there who can still discern facts from hog crap
For all the DG hate people rarely mention that he drafted our QB. Some do not like the pick. Ownership should make it clear to the new regime that DG stays.
Now? I can't foresee any scenario where the entire coaching staff is kept. DG will survive.
Quote:
is this what the DG hate is still about?
No, pretty sure we're ticked off at the fact that the Giants are the 2nd worst team in the league, and they'd be tied for worst if the Bucs kicker hit a makeable FG.
Better coaching wins vs. the Bears.
Rosas misses were due to DeOssie's bad snaps.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
Good, then let him be pro personnel director. He was good at that job. Being the Giants' GM? Not so much.
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
Amazing that a random poster here on BBI knows all of the offers we received from other teams.
Based upon OBJs performance the 18 months leading up to his trade AND his production this year, it seems like a fair trade.
The laws of supply and demand are always an indication of reality... not your perception of reality. If other teams felt like giving up more for OBJ, then you would have seen a different trade.
I was not a fan of hiring Gettleman but you have to look at these things objectively. Those who defend him at all costs are not being objective. Neither are you... or you just dont know WTF you are talking about. Pick one...
Quote:
not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
Amazing that a random poster here on BBI knows all of the offers we received from other teams.
Based upon OBJs performance the 18 months leading up to his trade AND his production this year, it seems like a fair trade.
The laws of supply and demand are always an indication of reality... not your perception of reality. If other teams felt like giving up more for OBJ, then you would have seen a different trade.
I was not a fan of hiring Gettleman but you have to look at these things objectively. Those who defend him at all costs are not being objective. Neither are you... or you just dont know WTF you are talking about. Pick one...
and its combing over not cumming over.. Unless they were offering nude cheerleaders.
Now? I can't foresee any scenario where the entire coaching staff is kept. DG will survive.
From what I have been told through channels is Shurmur is gone as well. Have not heard anything about DG staying or going. I'll reach out to my friend who has a friend in the organization and see if he has any new info. Hopefully they ran into each other over the holiday weekend
Dave, get off the internet and fix this fucking team.
you guys want every acquisition to be a home run but forget our last good ones were when DG was pro personnel director.
have some faith.
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i also think the obj trade was a good move, no matter if shurmur hated beckham, or gettleman and shurmur both hated beckham.
my only point, at all, is that gettleman is not the sole arbiter of personnel decisions or staff hires, so that laying everything 100% at his feet is probably misguided.
this is likely one of the bigger issues with the franchise- that the basic structure is collaborative to the point that it is a too many cooks spoiling the soup situation.
that all said i 100% believe shurmur is a far bigger problem than gettleman is.
ultimately i'd like to see mara bring in a head of football operations and let them go to work and relinquish control completely.
If all of these decisions are group decisions, I assume you also consider the fact that many of the draft picks you like may not have been the guy DG wanted? Or are only the poor decisions group decisions?
If he doesn't get credit for the free agents and trades, please also be sure to disperse credit for picks like Jones or Slayton which may have also been forced on him.
Almost zero former NFL players on either side as coaches . Much less recent ones or with a unifying approach .
If someone sees any pattern to them system or experience wise, it's not apparent.
The RB coach appears to be a QB specialist.
I wonder if front desk could compile hours logged .
That would go for front office as well excluding nobody.
Just my 2 cents, but am I supposed to believe that all of these high draft picks, many of whom showed promise last year, all suck and can't play? I doubt it. The coaching sucks. nobody improves, and they don't play to the strengths of the players drafted. SPielman was KILLIN Bettcher on the TV yesterday, one specific instance were he froze the aerial of their zone, nobody in front of them, but nobody looking behond them, asked why they are "covering grass". No pass ruxsh, but play asoft zone? Against Aaron Rodgers?? WTF.
And now they have Barkley playing out of McAdoo's enpty backfield shot gun. UGH.
Whoever the nes coah is, NO WCO PLEASE!
Usually they give their insight in parallel with giving the coaches some benefit of the doubt, but Spielman was basically saying the Giant defense hasn't a clue as to what they should be doing.
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not cumming over the first offer he received for OBJ instead of doing due diligence
you know this? Really? You know there were better offers from other teams? you know he did not shop OBJ around the league effectively?
No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
That is not how it works in the NFL. If you think he did not shop the guy, then you and all of the other believers are nuts. Just because he made that comment? None of us believe Gettleman when he opens his mouth anyway. So, why believe that statement about not shopping a player? By the way, he is correct about coming from a position of weakness in a negotiation.
The entire world could see the situation and challenges the Giants were having with OBJ. Any GM who coveted OBJ would pick up the phone and initiate a discussion about his availability.
We can all wish for a new GM but that does not mean everything he did was wrong.
Bottom line...
Nobody knows whether other teams truly had interest
Nobody knows whether DG "shopped" him around the league
Nobody knows what the other offers were outside of what we got from Cleveland
Keep speculating
it has nothing to do with OBJ. what the fuck are you talking about?
You’re just making stuff up
and no asshats.
almost as absurd as a thread (which i sadly posted on) that gets 150 posts saying you like the roster of this dumpster fire.
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No one knows whether we had better offers but we do know that he did not shop OBJ effectively. Don't you remember Gettleman's pearl of wisdom that you don't call other teams to initiate trade discussions because then you're dealing from a position of weakness?
I'm thinking of selling my car but I'm not going to let anyone know. I can't wait until the offers start rolling in!
Gettleman is incompetent and needs to go at the end of this season.
That is not how it works in the NFL. If you think he did not shop the guy, then you and all of the other believers are nuts. Just because he made that comment? None of us believe Gettleman when he opens his mouth anyway. So, why believe that statement about not shopping a player? By the way, he is correct about coming from a position of weakness in a negotiation.
The entire world could see the situation and challenges the Giants were having with OBJ. Any GM who coveted OBJ would pick up the phone and initiate a discussion about his availability.
We can all wish for a new GM but that does not mean everything he did was wrong.
Bottom line...
Nobody knows whether other teams truly had interest
Nobody knows whether DG "shopped" him around the league
Nobody knows what the other offers were outside of what we got from Cleveland
Keep speculating
It's not speculating when one shares their opinion on something the GM states as fact. Whether it is a fact or not, I have no idea. However, you are speculating that what he said was a lie.
Keep on having faith in the personnel genius who has taken a 3 win team and in two years, delivered you a possibly less than 3 win team.
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In comment 14698902 AnskyJK said:
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If ownership believes that pat to be such a bad hire that he should be fired in 2 years (I agree) not sure how you have confidence that the same man (gettleman) to select the next HC.
gettleman is not the sole force in head coaching hires, everyone knows mara has final say and is very active in this regard. it's why we ended up with mcadoo.
also, i believe shurmur was the third or fourth choice with gettleman preferring wilks or patricia
You're in overdrive - on the other thread you say it was Shurmur not Gettleman who wanted OBJ out, now Gettleman had no say in hiring Shurmur.
What's next - Shurmur waterboarded Gettleman until he traded for Leonard Williams?
No, he just tickled him until he couldn't stand it any longer.