Have we heard from any of the reliable bbi asshats on what they are hearing in terms of shurmur and gettlemans future? They seemed to be fairly accurate during FA with insider info
didn't hire the coach, didn't make the major roster decisions (trading for Ogletree, trading OBJ), didn't decide to keep Eli, but somehow is considered the GM and lauded for the picks that his supporters actually believe are good (despite any empirical evidence to support).
Are we reading the same posts? A good portion of BBI is down on "Teflon dave".
Hi Jon. Thanks for chiming in. I think a few of us might be confused about "not looking good." In my case, that would mean it's not looking good that there would be any changes at all. LOL. That's my personal worst-case scenario. I'm guess, however, that you mean it doesn't look good for Murmer. Any sense of how the wind is blowing re our GM?
Shurmur and his coaches, the local media that covers the team the closest has been beating them up big time lately. That's usually the first indicator change is in the air.
With DG, we know the Giants tend to not fire GMs. I don't think he's a goner.
...but I don't see the value in firing Gettleman. Really, I don't. A massive regime change will guarantee set us backwards - yes, that's possible.
He's been here two seasons. Both of his drafts have been good. He's been largely in cap management/recovery mode.
His philosophy as to how to fix the team is one I agree with. I'm personally convinced it's the coaching that's failing us.
Gettleman's failures: free agency to date, coach selection.
Issue for me is, most of you are giving him one chance. I'm not in this crowd. I'm giving Gettleman two more seasons. He needs to succeed in free agency these next two season (he'll have money). He needs to succeed in his next coach hire.
After that, if we're still here in two seasons, then yeah, I'll be happy to move on from him.
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Better now than in two years. If they haven't learned yet the folly of half measures, I don't know what it will take.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: we're still mad about obj? Â
Keep on having faith in the personnel genius who has taken a 3 win team and in two years, delivered you a possibly less than 3 win team.
I personally do not necessarily have faith in him. However, since we universally agree that the coach is horrible, are we sure the additions are the problem or the coaching?
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Honestly, there's an argument to be made that suggesting that moving on from Shurmur would be enough of a jolt. The new head coach would HAVE to be on board with Jones.
It's just unfortunate that we drafted our franchise QB of the future with an utterly incompetent head coach and staff.
I agree. I don't really see any way that they dump DG. And frankly, I'm not in the anti-DG camp, so I'm good with that. All arrows point to the coaches going. I wonder who is on the Mara/DG wish-list. I would still send a pick for Mike Tomlin, but I seem to be alone in that one.
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Better now than in two years. If they haven't learned yet the folly of half measures, I don't know what it will take.
I don't think you'll get your wish on this one, Terps. Suspect, hiring a third new HC within five years will represent enough change for their taste.
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to
build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Then we are seriously limiting the HC pool of candidates and will end up with Garrett or McCarthy - just keep kicking that can down the road. When will it end?
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to
build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Then we are seriously limiting the HC pool of candidates and will end up with Garrett or McCarthy - just keep kicking that can down the road. When will it end?
Who knows? If Abrams is DG's heir apparent, he's a complete unknown quantity in the football area, imo. Not even a football guy, to my knowledge.
Hell, Coughlin wouldn't have been hired in 2004 had it been up to Accorsi. That was Welly's hire.
This is one of the great BBI myths, based largely on the fact that Accorsi said he got bored during Coughlin's opening statement in his first interview.
Accorsi and John Mara interviewed all the head coaching candidates in 2004. Wellington didn't get involved until later in the process, by which point Coughlin had already impressed.
...but I don't see the value in firing Gettleman. Really, I don't. A massive regime change will guarantee set us backwards - yes, that's possible.
He's been here two seasons. Both of his drafts have been good. He's been largely in cap management/recovery mode.
His philosophy as to how to fix the team is one I agree with. I'm personally convinced it's the coaching that's failing us.
Gettleman's failures: free agency to date, coach selection.
Issue for me is, most of you are giving him one chance. I'm not in this crowd. I'm giving Gettleman two more seasons. He needs to succeed in free agency these next two season (he'll have money). He needs to succeed in his next coach hire.
After that, if we're still here in two seasons, then yeah, I'll be happy to move on from him.
I agree with this. He gets the next coaching hire and this year's big Free agency to see what they can do with the pieces he's assembled.
Went in with no intention to watch football. Kept true. Great day. Did not record, did not tune in to the NFL.
Pulled everything Giants off my wish list.
No longer going to get aggravated or annoyed by something that is supposed to entertain me. FUCK IT.
I do not care whose fault it is. If I had to place blame, I place it on us. YUP, you and me. Our fucking fault.
Why?
We show up, we watch and buy their shit when they feed us shit. We eat it with a fucking smile. No more. You should join me. The fuckers you want fired, will be fired if we close our wallets.
Fix it.
I don't care how. This is a multi billion dollar business. Spend some money and figure it out. Hire someone to evaluate you as an owner, the Giants as a team.
No homers.
NEVER Again hire anyone that tells you what you want to hear.
I am not following the team again until they give me a reason to. I will pop in and comment. I enjoy some the people here. Not giving them up. Giant's can bugger off for now. Tired of the rotten taste in my mouth.
You can't fire the coaches after 2 years (implying they're incompetent) and then say they didn't have the players.
If they are being fired this quickly it's because they are underachieving with the players they are given. And that's what's going to happen.
I may be crazy, but this is honestly what I believe.
This should be a 5 win team right now with the personnel they have. Even with the WR lack of depth and injuries.
I don't vividly remember the Handley days anymore, but this team, this year, is incredibly underachieving.
on the top coaching prospects just b/c Mara doesn't like the idea of firing a GM after two years then this team is in far more trouble than any coaching hire can fix. As an owner, you need to do what's in the best long term interest of the franchise. Not what is easy and allows you to stay in your comfort zone.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
I never thought most of them were that good in the first place Â
Leave Barkley aside for the moment.....Hernandez was OK last year, he wasn't some instant star. Carter was the same guy last year he was this year - make a big play here and there and invisible the rest of the time. Lauletta was a completely wasted pick. People got very excited about Hill based largely on one game. McIntosh has been a total nonfactor from day one.
So, then, really you're just talking about Barkley, I assume.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
They had the same coaches last year...
Why would the same coaches set them back this year? That makes no sense.
Real talent tends to shine through even bad coaching. Tends... Not always, sometimes there is one little thing a player needs to learn to break through, and the right coach can make all the difference. I would suggest that is rare though.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
Your argument is logical. I just am not convinced this should be a 2-3 win team.
I blame the entire coaching staff. Everyone but special teams should go.
Going backwards as a franchise is more than just a simple judgment of record. A new GM would potentially involved rebooting the franchise again.
I just don't believe we need a full reboot. It could take another two years just to get to this point again.
I'm holding the proverbial gun to Gettleman's head though. Now, he has money. He's been cleaning up Reese's financial shit for the past 18 months, but that time is over.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
Your argument is logical. I just am not convinced this should be a 2-3 win team.
I blame the entire coaching staff. Everyone but special teams should go.
Going backwards as a franchise is more than just a simple judgment of record. A new GM would potentially involved rebooting the franchise again.
I just don't believe we need a full reboot. It could take another two years just to get to this point again.
I'm holding the proverbial gun to Gettleman's head though. Now, he has money. He's been cleaning up Reese's financial shit for the past 18 months, but that time is over.
Reese's financial shit? Gettleman created more of the dead money on this year's cap than Reese did. Gettleman's financial shit has been just as damning as whatever residual mess he had to clean up.
Gettleman is very fortunate that so many fans think he's been more handcuffed by Reese's errors than he actually has been, otherwise they might actually hold him even a little bit accountable for this shitshow we have.
RE: BBI - the only place on Earth where Teflon Dave Â
didn't hire the coach, didn't make the major roster decisions (trading for Ogletree, trading OBJ), didn't decide to keep Eli, but somehow is considered the GM and lauded for the picks that his supporters actually believe are good (despite any empirical evidence to support).
No one with a clue said that DG didn’t make most if not all the personnel moves here but he did not hire shurmur. Mara did. Maybe dg signed off too maybe not but Mara is the guy hiring the HC according to reports.
and no asshats.
almost as absurd as a thread (which i sadly posted on) that gets 150 posts saying you like the roster of this dumpster fire.
Until now! You (and JonC) are the resident asshats!
Not looking good for Shurmur, Gettleman or the fans who want them gone?
Not looking good in what sense? For Shurmur (i.e. he's gone) or for us (i.e. he stays)?
Are we reading the same posts? A good portion of BBI is down on "Teflon dave".
Of course not. We're bleeding from the chest with a gun shot wound, but Johnny will just apply a Band Aid.
In comment 14699694 JonC said:
With DG, we know the Giants tend to not fire GMs. I don't think he's a goner.
This would be almost as bad as no change at all.
He's been here two seasons. Both of his drafts have been good. He's been largely in cap management/recovery mode.
His philosophy as to how to fix the team is one I agree with. I'm personally convinced it's the coaching that's failing us.
Gettleman's failures: free agency to date, coach selection.
Issue for me is, most of you are giving him one chance. I'm not in this crowd. I'm giving Gettleman two more seasons. He needs to succeed in free agency these next two season (he'll have money). He needs to succeed in his next coach hire.
After that, if we're still here in two seasons, then yeah, I'll be happy to move on from him.
Better now than in two years. If they haven't learned yet the folly of half measures, I don't know what it will take.
Keep on having faith in the personnel genius who has taken a 3 win team and in two years, delivered you a possibly less than 3 win team.
I personally do not necessarily have faith in him. However, since we universally agree that the coach is horrible, are we sure the additions are the problem or the coaching?
Honestly, there's an argument to be made that suggesting that moving on from Shurmur would be enough of a jolt. The new head coach would HAVE to be on board with Jones.
It's just unfortunate that we drafted our franchise QB of the future with an utterly incompetent head coach and staff.
If they are being fired this quickly it's because they are underachieving with the players they are given. And that's what's going to happen.
In comment 14699743 JonC said:
Quote:
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Better now than in two years. If they haven't learned yet the folly of half measures, I don't know what it will take.
I don't think you'll get your wish on this one, Terps. Suspect, hiring a third new HC within five years will represent enough change for their taste.
build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Then we are seriously limiting the HC pool of candidates and will end up with Garrett or McCarthy - just keep kicking that can down the road. When will it end?
Quote:
if for no other reason than he drafted Jones, and that's their guy to
build around. If they move on from DG, the QB debate could ramp up quickly, and I doubt they want to deal with that option now.
Then we are seriously limiting the HC pool of candidates and will end up with Garrett or McCarthy - just keep kicking that can down the road. When will it end?
Who knows? If Abrams is DG's heir apparent, he's a complete unknown quantity in the football area, imo. Not even a football guy, to my knowledge.
No. They hope they win, but they're not trying to win.
This is one of the great BBI myths, based largely on the fact that Accorsi said he got bored during Coughlin's opening statement in his first interview.
Accorsi and John Mara interviewed all the head coaching candidates in 2004. Wellington didn't get involved until later in the process, by which point Coughlin had already impressed.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
He's been here two seasons. Both of his drafts have been good. He's been largely in cap management/recovery mode.
His philosophy as to how to fix the team is one I agree with. I'm personally convinced it's the coaching that's failing us.
Gettleman's failures: free agency to date, coach selection.
Issue for me is, most of you are giving him one chance. I'm not in this crowd. I'm giving Gettleman two more seasons. He needs to succeed in free agency these next two season (he'll have money). He needs to succeed in his next coach hire.
After that, if we're still here in two seasons, then yeah, I'll be happy to move on from him.
I agree with this. He gets the next coaching hire and this year's big Free agency to see what they can do with the pieces he's assembled.
Pulled everything Giants off my wish list.
No longer going to get aggravated or annoyed by something that is supposed to entertain me. FUCK IT.
I do not care whose fault it is. If I had to place blame, I place it on us. YUP, you and me. Our fucking fault.
Why?
We show up, we watch and buy their shit when they feed us shit. We eat it with a fucking smile. No more. You should join me. The fuckers you want fired, will be fired if we close our wallets.
Fix it.
I don't care how. This is a multi billion dollar business. Spend some money and figure it out. Hire someone to evaluate you as an owner, the Giants as a team.
No homers.
NEVER Again hire anyone that tells you what you want to hear.
I am not following the team again until they give me a reason to. I will pop in and comment. I enjoy some the people here. Not giving them up. Giant's can bugger off for now. Tired of the rotten taste in my mouth.
If they are being fired this quickly it's because they are underachieving with the players they are given. And that's what's going to happen.
I may be crazy, but this is honestly what I believe.
This should be a 5 win team right now with the personnel they have. Even with the WR lack of depth and injuries.
I don't vividly remember the Handley days anymore, but this team, this year, is incredibly underachieving.
Quote:
Both of his drafts have been good.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
So shumur is back
Quote:
In comment 14699740 islander1 said:
Quote:
Both of his drafts have been good.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
So, then, really you're just talking about Barkley, I assume.
Quote:
In comment 14699740 islander1 said:
Quote:
Both of his drafts have been good.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
They had the same coaches last year...
Why would the same coaches set them back this year? That makes no sense.
Real talent tends to shine through even bad coaching. Tends... Not always, sometimes there is one little thing a player needs to learn to break through, and the right coach can make all the difference. I would suggest that is rare though.
Quote:
In comment 14699812 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14699740 islander1 said:
Quote:
Both of his drafts have been good.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
Your argument is logical. I just am not convinced this should be a 2-3 win team.
I blame the entire coaching staff. Everyone but special teams should go.
Going backwards as a franchise is more than just a simple judgment of record. A new GM would potentially involved rebooting the franchise again.
I just don't believe we need a full reboot. It could take another two years just to get to this point again.
I'm holding the proverbial gun to Gettleman's head though. Now, he has money. He's been cleaning up Reese's financial shit for the past 18 months, but that time is over.
Quote:
In comment 14700132 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14699812 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14699740 islander1 said:
Quote:
Both of his drafts have been good.
That is highly, HIGHLY, arguable, especially with 2018.
I suppose it is.
I guess that depends on how you view the class of '18.
One philosophy is that the players were never as good as we thought they were, despite last year.
My philosophy is that they have all gone backwards due to poor coaching.
Your philosophy is also that they could take a step backwards by firing Gettleman.
They're 2-10 right now. Assuming they're 3-13 when all is said and done, what's a step backward? 2-14? Is that really a risk at this point?
The Giants need desperately to make some heavy duty changes in that front office, otherwise we're due more of the same, just with a different HC's name filling the blank.
Your argument is logical. I just am not convinced this should be a 2-3 win team.
I blame the entire coaching staff. Everyone but special teams should go.
Going backwards as a franchise is more than just a simple judgment of record. A new GM would potentially involved rebooting the franchise again.
I just don't believe we need a full reboot. It could take another two years just to get to this point again.
I'm holding the proverbial gun to Gettleman's head though. Now, he has money. He's been cleaning up Reese's financial shit for the past 18 months, but that time is over.
Reese's financial shit? Gettleman created more of the dead money on this year's cap than Reese did. Gettleman's financial shit has been just as damning as whatever residual mess he had to clean up.
Gettleman is very fortunate that so many fans think he's been more handcuffed by Reese's errors than he actually has been, otherwise they might actually hold him even a little bit accountable for this shitshow we have.
No one with a clue said that DG didn’t make most if not all the personnel moves here but he did not hire shurmur. Mara did. Maybe dg signed off too maybe not but Mara is the guy hiring the HC according to reports.