This is the problem. Rhule has all the leverage and has a great situation in Baylor, why take a job with a lame-duck GM picking your players?
This is how we end up with Pat Shurmur & why Jason Garrett is a real possibility.
The easy decision is to fire Shurmur, the hard decision is Gettleman - but we need to attract the best candidates.
This is from today’s GM Shuffle podcast.
The Giants are at the point where they need to explore the possibilities of
BB
Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
As un-Giant-like as the latter two may be, the Giants lack credibility and need to find someone with it fast.
Those last three guys aren't long-term options. Saban quit a job after 2 years when things didn't go his way. Harbaugh leaves good situations after 3-5 years. Urban Meyer's health issues are always a go-to excuse to punt out of town after a few years.
I would love Saban, but he already quit on a franchise. They're all great coaches, but I wouldn't be able to trust any of them. Anyone would hire BB, but he's also a bit old.
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First, Lombardi sucks. Why anyone listens/reads what Lombardi/Leonard says/writes is a mystery.
Second, while Rhule is bandied about as a candidate, he isn't realistic with the buyout on his contract. In other threads, it was mentioned that there is a $30M buyout. Mara just finished paying Benny this year to sit on his couch. Now, it looks like he'll have to pay Shurmur to take a 3 year vacation. He isn't going to contribute $30M for the right to hire Rhule.
There's absolutely no corroborating evidence Rhule has a 30M NFL buy out.
It's been widely reported when he signed his extension with Baylor that he has a "Top 5" buy out. If you lookup the top buy outs, it puts it somewhere north of $30M.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
This offseason is going to be interesting, if nothing else, haha.
No one has to think Jones is perfect, but anyone who thinks this is a complete imbecile.
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The love for Lombardi. I find him arrogant which to me signals he isn't worth much.
That same sentiment could be applied to someone else in this discussion as well ;)
Could be right. I am pay labeled as a defender, yet all I have communicated is a wait and see approach. Since I may take longer to make a decision I get labeled as a defender. Add to that when I don't criticize nearly every move. Each move takes time to play out. If others have the vision to see what I don't know that is impressive to me. I really don't have a problem with people questioning Gettleman, what bothers me is when those questions turn into definitive statements. It's the same if fans post that certain acquisitions or draft classes are a success before all of the information is in.
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In comment 14699104 Diver_Down said:
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First, Lombardi sucks. Why anyone listens/reads what Lombardi/Leonard says/writes is a mystery.
Second, while Rhule is bandied about as a candidate, he isn't realistic with the buyout on his contract. In other threads, it was mentioned that there is a $30M buyout. Mara just finished paying Benny this year to sit on his couch. Now, it looks like he'll have to pay Shurmur to take a 3 year vacation. He isn't going to contribute $30M for the right to hire Rhule.
There's absolutely no corroborating evidence Rhule has a 30M NFL buy out.
It's been widely reported when he signed his extension with Baylor that he has a "Top 5" buy out. If you lookup the top buy outs, it puts it somewhere north of $30M.
What he's saying is nobody knows what that buyout language is. Maybe it's 30m if another college team wants him. But if it's an NFL team, it could be a lower number.
Lombardi is very high on Burrow & thinks he’s better than Jones. Adnan mocked Jones and called him a bust, but he also loved Haskins - I don’t take his opinion seriously.
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Said he’s getting worse every week.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
3 games ago, he threw 4 TD passes through 3 quarters against the Jets. The 27 points the Giants scored in that game are the most the Jets have allowed in over a month. Any team with a less than horrible defense would've won that game.
And his brother. I don't think Chris Mara gets enough blame for this mess.
Do I want to work with a failing GM or his replacement, Kevin Abrams, who has never been a GM?
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In comment 14699132 Sean said:
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Said he’s getting worse every week.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
3 games ago, he threw 4 TD passes through 3 quarters against the Jets. The 27 points the Giants scored in that game are the most the Jets have allowed in over a month. Any team with a less than horrible defense would've won that game.
You're pointing to a game 3 games ago against a Jets team that just lost to the winless Bengals as some sort of feather in his cap... Great. Some high standards.
Jones is playing poorly and the numbers bear that out. Further, watch him play. His pocket presence is alarmingly poor: he's backpedalling, bailing on throws, not feeling the rush, and not seeing blitzes pre-snap.
He's a rookie and some of that is to be expected, but when you have a new coach likely coming in and possibly an opportunity to draft a better prospect, questions will be asked.
I believe Gettleman has made a number of good moves, chief among them picking Jones. I also believe both he and Shurmur deserve three years to definitively see if this is a talent, experience, or coaching issue.
What I deplore in Gettleman is his arrogance. It's not a quality I've experienced in my professional career as one that accompanies progressiveness, accountability, and longevity.
It's also not a quality I've often seen one display publicly, then hold back privately where the real work is being done.
My eyes are telling me he’s not exactly improving.
Our preexisting opinions about the GM with the 7-21 record here, yes.
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In comment 14699134 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14699132 Sean said:
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Said he’s getting worse every week.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
3 games ago, he threw 4 TD passes through 3 quarters against the Jets. The 27 points the Giants scored in that game are the most the Jets have allowed in over a month. Any team with a less than horrible defense would've won that game.
You're pointing to a game 3 games ago against a Jets team that just lost to the winless Bengals as some sort of feather in his cap... Great. Some high standards.
Jones is playing poorly and the numbers bear that out. Further, watch him play. His pocket presence is alarmingly poor: he's backpedalling, bailing on throws, not feeling the rush, and not seeing blitzes pre-snap.
He's a rookie and some of that is to be expected, but when you have a new coach likely coming in and possibly an opportunity to draft a better prospect, questions will be asked.
The Jets lost because they scored 6 points. When the Giants hold someone to 6 points, let me know. Back to the original point, that game wasn't 3 months ago so the idea that he's "inarguably" getting worse is over the top. I've watched him play. I've also seen this "better prospect" Joe Burrow play. He wouldn't do 1 iota better in this situation.
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I really don't have a problem with people questioning Gettleman, what bothers me is when those questions turn into definitive statements.
I believe Gettleman has made a number of good moves, chief among them picking Jones. I also believe both he and Shurmur deserve three years to definitively see if this is a talent, experience, or coaching issue.
What I deplore in Gettleman is his arrogance. It's not a quality I've experienced in my professional career as one that accompanies progressiveness, accountability, and longevity.
It's also not a quality I've often seen one display publicly, then hold back privately where the real work is being done.
Christian I have also seen his arrogance as a negative. I don't like it. I find that arrogance makes it difficult to learn since we hold our own opinions so high while looking down on contrary information
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I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
Lombardi is very high on Burrow & thinks he’s better than Jones. Adnan mocked Jones and called him a bust, but he also loved Haskins - I don’t take his opinion seriously.
Adnan Virk is a re-re. I am not sure about Daniel Jones yet though. Jury is still out on him, but there's a lot more to like than dislike.
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Fire Gettleman as well. I'm tired of Mara's yesmen being in charge of this team.
And his brother. I don't think Chris Mara gets enough blame for this mess.
Chris Mara (e.g., ownership in a crappy disguise) is the pink elephant in the room.
As the surrounding roster improves around Jones, I think you'll see a really good QB.
An offseason in the weight room with film study and a fresh start next year will serve him well. Right now he's taking his lumps.........
Excellent point. It really doesn't make sense to let DG make this hire. Another disaster year and they fire DG, now we have a new coach and a new GM who didnt even get to select his own guy? Meanwhile time keeps passing on Barkley and Jones. Its a disaster. Fire DG, its time to start over.
He may be right on what Rhule wants, but he's a terrible talent evaluator.
Huh?
So what you are saying the Giants won't be able to hire a good coach..........no one will work here.
Bill Belichick
The Houston Texans have a GM position listed, however it is currently open.
Pete Carroll, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, or any other NFL head coach that you would consider good is doing it with a general manager in charge of player personnel in some capacity.
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In comment 14699089 crick n NC said:
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The love for Lombardi. I find him arrogant which to me signals he isn't worth much.
That same sentiment could be applied to someone else in this discussion as well ;)
Could be right. I am pay labeled as a defender, yet all I have communicated is a wait and see approach. Since I may take longer to make a decision I get labeled as a defender. Add to that when I don't criticize nearly every move. Each move takes time to play out. If others have the vision to see what I don't know that is impressive to me. I really don't have a problem with people questioning Gettleman, what bothers me is when those questions turn into definitive statements. It's the same if fans post that certain acquisitions or draft classes are a success before all of the information is in.
I might be wrong, but I read Christian's post as a suggestion that Gettleman himself possesses the same traits that you find distasteful in Lombardi.
The only thing in the DNA of ownership is losing. Time to hit the reset button.
Bill Belichick
The Houston Texans have a GM position listed, however it is currently open.
Pete Carroll, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, or any other NFL head coach that you would consider good is doing it with a general manager in charge of player personnel in some capacity.
I would toss Gruden in there, too. He is the $100M man in charge of all football operations. Mayock reports to him.
Too many negative factors and questions with DG staying on.
By the way DG also sucks as a GM. Why would a coach want to work under him for any period of time?
So yeah, count me as skeptical that whatever he reports around the Giants plans is anything more than the usual talking head speculation.
Bizarro World: The Giants are lost while the Browns are the NFL’s new darlings - ( New Window )
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Said he’s getting worse every week.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
Of course you think that.
You are so wrapped up in your own narrative that you bend reality to match that narrative.
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In comment 14699132 Sean said:
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Said he’s getting worse every week.
I don't know if Jones is a bust, but he's inarguably getting worse.
Of course you think that.
You are so wrapped up in your own narrative that you bend reality to match that narrative.
Yeah that's me, bending reality. Jones is at 6.4 YPA and turning the ball over twice a game in my imagination. I'm making it up.
My narrative is this: the Giants are 7-21 in the last two years and have lost 8 in a row. Everything should be on the table for change. I know that's uncomfortable for the fanboys, but you'd think they'd have learned by now.
I didn't need that trade to move me on Gettleman, but it was a move that floored me.
Unless the LW Team is as dumb as a door stop, this place is in for a rude awakening when LW starts his bidding at $17M/year. Not this $11-12M range some are suggesting.
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who also hold the position of GM in the NFL in an official capacity:
Bill Belichick
The Houston Texans have a GM position listed, however it is currently open.
Pete Carroll, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, or any other NFL head coach that you would consider good is doing it with a general manager in charge of player personnel in some capacity.
I would toss Gruden in there, too. He is the $100M man in charge of all football operations. Mayock reports to him.
I mean maybe. I watched the Raiders HBO Hard Knocks series and didn't get that impression.
I also can't find Gruden listed as anything but head coach on anything in any official capacity.
And if true deal with it because the chances the Giants remove DG are slim and none.
I mean maybe. I watched the Raiders HBO Hard Knocks series and didn't get that impression.
I also can't find Gruden listed as anything but head coach on anything in any official capacity.
Who do you think fired Reggie McKenzie the prior GM to Mayock? It wasn't Mark Davis. It was Gruden. Who do you think hired Mayock? It wasn't Mark Davis. It was Gruden.
Gruden runs everything. He's the CEO of the Raiders.
Though I imagine if Lombardi were extolling the virtues of all things Giants the same people criticizing him would love him. Can't blame Lombardi if there's nothing Giants-related worth extolling.
I see you. Pat yourself on the the back. You were right.
Trading OBJ in his prime was a colossal mistake.
Josh Rosen was a steal via trade last April.
Haskins falling to #6 was the obvious pick.
Daniel Jones was a mistake at #6.
Do the backpatters just pretend those things turned out to be true because the Giants as a team still suck?
Obviously plenty of things have turned out poorly (Shurmur as HC being case in point) - but I'd estimate 90% of the oxygen in the media including ML, sports talk, and on this message board involved 1 of the arguments above in some capacity and from my view they are presently among DG's best decisions. Barkley, Jones, and Lawrence are the 3 most solid pieces of the core going forward and you'd be hard pressed to find 3 better pieces from the last 2 drafts.