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It's not just Shurmur, it's the entire staff

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/2/2019 8:55 am
Even Ray Handley had Jim Fassel, Romeo Crennel, and Charlie Weis on his staff.
our staff blows from top to bottom  
UConn4523 : 12/2/2019 8:57 am : link
I wouldn't keep either coordinator and all of the position coaches can go too. We regressed everywhere. Clean it all out.
Those  
mittenedman : 12/2/2019 8:57 am : link
we’re the guys he was able to get. Part of being a good HC is putting a good staff together and it’s another thing he stinks at.
You mean there is not going to be  
RobCrossRiver56 : 12/2/2019 9:01 am : link

Pat Shurmer coaching tree?
His staff  
Andrew in Austin : 12/2/2019 9:03 am : link
was a red flag from early on. Can we name a position group that has improved? Frankly, can we name a position group that has stayed the same?

Hal Hunter as OL Coach was a red flag - not sure where he has been successful.

I am somewhat surprised by Bettcher - he was lauded as a defensive genius with actual results in AZ. Our secondary still has zero clue where they belong.
I think the special teams are competently coached  
bigbluescot : 12/2/2019 9:08 am : link
in coverage at least, although the DeOssie thing was bizarre. And that's about it and even then the DeOssie and Rosas form issue and the inability to do anything about it means I'm not too bothered about.

I just checked bbi list on staff  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:23 am : link
Almost zero former NFL players.

Lots of one year here two years there guys. Which is probably typical but not to that extent

The RB coach is a QB specialist...hello .

No apparent rhyme or reason as per x's and o's method wise in terms of resumes working together. Looks like both lb guys are outside lb focussed, .

Lots of those who started as intern types and rose quickly . Not sure who teaches fundamentals to the rookies .
Suggest front desk compile hours logged  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:25 am : link
For all front office employees excluding nobody. It's not clear given Erics list who hires assistant and unit coaches.
Mike Shula?  
figgy2989 : 12/2/2019 9:27 am : link
[imghttps://media1.giphy.com/media/TgL7foFCdsrC8fX61v/giphy.gif[/img]
Mike Shula?  
figgy2989 : 12/2/2019 9:27 am : link
RE: You mean there is not going to be  
micky : 12/2/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14699168 RobCrossRiver56 said:
Quote:

Pat Shurmer coaching tree?



I found his tree


Organizational Rot and Bad Publicity  
Percy : 12/2/2019 9:31 am : link
Mara should be embarrassed for this disaster and I hope he is. His father would be ashamed of him. It all begins at the top and he is the top. To make the front page of the Wall Street Journal along with the rest of the failed NorthEastern Division -- all losers -- as they did today should be marked as an historical national humiliation.
RE: I think the special teams are competently coached  
Dinger : 12/2/2019 9:32 am : link
In comment 14699188 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
in coverage at least, although the DeOssie thing was bizarre. And that's about it and even then the DeOssie and Rosas form issue and the inability to do anything about it means I'm not too bothered about.


I want all of them gone, but I agree, I feel like our specials, except for this DeOssie thing, has been the lone unit to be fairly consistently decent.
Eric this is a great point  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 9:35 am : link
Fassel had BOTH Fox and Peyton. And we let both go to keep Jim. Lol.

This staff is abysmal. Hal Hunter our OL guy may be one of the worst in the league.

Our only clearly bonafide coordinator is McGaughey!
One can imagine one front office  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:38 am : link
Having open conversations with head coach prospects and dialing up professionals, also former players and people with particular experience in that system or who share a view on the game or are already associated .

And one can also imagine a front office going to Edmunds Book of
Career coaches looking for Gigs, and hiring whomever is out there, then going to play golf or home to wifey.

Which are we?
Again  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:43 am : link
The RB coach is a QB specialist. Then you have OL coach Hunter who was probably sitting on his couch, and Shurm who doesn't like to run the ball .

Who actually puts together the run game?

This has got to be on the front office
If one of the  
Gman11 : 12/2/2019 9:48 am : link
pass rushers could beat his opponent the coaches would look a lot smarter.
False dichotomy sour grapes  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:49 am : link
It's both
The staff is a residual effect of  
aimrocky : 12/2/2019 9:50 am : link
not having your GM and coach in lock step. Gettleman's presence will limit the candidate pool because of his job security. Whoever the new coach is will likely not be the top choice, and will be settling on second rate assistants. Clean house with everyone...
It's like the southerner who visits a nyc  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 9:53 am : link
BBQ place;

'this tastes ok, but it's not bbq'

Football without running isn't football.
We all liked the Bettcher hiring.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/2/2019 10:10 am : link
The change to the 3-4 has been especially arduous, plus there's nothing Bettcher has done that's looked positive.

I hope we get Chase in the draft and go back to a 4-3.
From today's WSJ...  
BamaBlue : 12/2/2019 10:20 am : link
Quote:
The only team that is officially out of this shopping cart race is the New York Giants, who sit at 2-10. The Giants have lost eight straight—but at least they didn’t lose to the previously winless Bengals, as their Meadowlands roommates, the Jets, did Sunday. Maybe they’ll raise a banner: THE 2019 NEW YORK GIANTS. AT LEAST WE DIDN’T LOSE TO THE BENGALS.
ive said it before  
Justlurking : 12/2/2019 10:38 am : link
This is the worst coaching staff I have ever seen. An entire staff of career losers. Go ask Alabama fans what they think about Shula. Bettcher hasn't done anything. Hal Hunter is objectively the worst OL coach in the history of the NFL (look up where his lines grade out every season - his lines basically crippled Luck).

If im not mistaken the only guy with a SB is Tyke Tolbert.

these guys stink - ( New Window )
I get the point, but it's a silly comparison  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 10:43 am : link
Handley inherited those guys from Parcells.
RE: ive said it before  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14699464 Justlurking said:
Quote:
This is the worst coaching staff I have ever seen. An entire staff of career losers. Go ask Alabama fans what they think about Shula. Bettcher hasn't done anything. Hal Hunter is objectively the worst OL coach in the history of the NFL (look up where his lines grade out every season - his lines basically crippled Luck).

If im not mistaken the only guy with a SB is Tyke Tolbert. these guys stink - ( New Window )


Tyke Tolbert and McGaughey are the only 2 guys that are clearly average or better at their positions.
This is partially  
Daniel in MI : 12/2/2019 10:47 am : link
Why I’m not sure Gettleman is gone. I think he made one foundational mistake in getting Shurmur, who hired some bad staff, and we are not getting the most from what talent we have.

I see a lot of our castoffs at OL being ok (not great, but not wretched) elsewhere. How the hell can these guys that were at least ok elsewhere be so bad here? How can a D be so routinely bad? I mean, I get we have real personnel weaknesses but to look at our play, we don’t even have strengths. We can’t run consistently. We can’t pass consistently. We can’t stop the run. We can’t cover, and we can’t rush the passer. How is this possible? Some of these picks and FAs would hit even by random chance. No, I think we need a much stronger coach to bring more accountability here. And I did not start the year that down on PS. But I just don’t see anything good we’re doing right now with what we do have.
Oh and  
Daniel in MI : 12/2/2019 10:50 am : link
I think DG has gone out of his way to get Bettcher these ex-Cards he wanted to lock things down. But...where have they helped?
RE: This is partially  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 10:54 am : link
In comment 14699479 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
Why I’m not sure Gettleman is gone. I think he made one foundational mistake in getting Shurmur, who hired some bad staff, and we are not getting the most from what talent we have.

I see a lot of our castoffs at OL being ok (not great, but not wretched) elsewhere. How the hell can these guys that were at least ok elsewhere be so bad here? How can a D be so routinely bad? I mean, I get we have real personnel weaknesses but to look at our play, we don’t even have strengths. We can’t run consistently. We can’t pass consistently. We can’t stop the run. We can’t cover, and we can’t rush the passer. How is this possible? Some of these picks and FAs would hit even by random chance. No, I think we need a much stronger coach to bring more accountability here. And I did not start the year that down on PS. But I just don’t see anything good we’re doing right now with what we do have.


This is why I think we cant properly evaluate the players (due to such bad coaching all around). DG gets another shot, Giants hopefully try to go big with the hire: Harbaugh, Urban Meyer, Rivera/Norv Turner (not as big a splash but a good combo for this team's make-up IMO)
RE: Oh and  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14699485 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
I think DG has gone out of his way to get Bettcher these ex-Cards he wanted to lock things down. But...where have they helped?


Just Golden. Bring him back.
isn't Golden  
bc4life : 12/2/2019 10:55 am : link
an ex Card
RE: We all liked the Bettcher hiring.  
Bill in UT : 12/2/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14699386 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
The change to the 3-4 has been especially arduous, plus there's nothing Bettcher has done that's looked positive.

I hope we get Chase in the draft and go back to a 4-3.


I've been in AZ for 5 years. I didn't like Bettcher or any of the guys he brought over, except Golden, based on before he got hurt
We didn't all like the Bettcher hiring  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 10:59 am : link
When he was hired I pointed out that the Arizona defense got worse each year he was there.
I posted this on the wrong thread earlier as hitdog so eloquently  
Victor in CT : 12/2/2019 11:04 am : link
pointed out, but I was listening to the end of post game on FAN yesterday.

Banks and Papa were just killing the coaching staff, naming Bettcher and Shurmur. I doubt that happens if the word wasn't out.

Just my 2 cents, but am I supposed to believe that all of these high draft picks, many of whom showed promise last year, all suck and can't play? I doubt it. The coaching sucks. Nobody improves, and they don't play to the strengths of the players drafted. Spielman was KILLING Bettcher on the TV yesterday, One specific instance were he froze the aerial of their zone, nobody in front of them, but nobody looking behind them, asked why they are "covering grass". No pass rush, but play a soft zone? Against Aaron Rodgers?? WTF.

And now they have Barkley playing out of McAdoo's empty backfield shot gun. No help for the tackles who stink, no fullback to lead block despite having a god-awful C in Halapio. UGH.

Whoever the next coah is, NO WCO PLEASE!
Spielman is excellent and doesn't pull punches.  
mittenedman : 12/2/2019 12:42 pm : link
Agreed Spielman did a nice job pointing out Bettcher's incompetencies.

These guys aren't coached well. They still have trouble lining up. The timing of the blitzes is off. Nothing's disguised. The overall tackling effort is very poor. Nobody flies to the ball - it's always a 1on1 open field tackle and if the 1 Giant misses it's off to the races. The zone coverages that don't turn into man. The lack of bump N run. Guys lining up in bump N run and NOT getting a jam or even trying to jam. (See the 4th down conversion Rodgers to Adams on square out.)

This D regardless of talent level looks completely uninterested and does not play smart or execute their assignments. That is coaching. I actually think if a really strong defensive staff comes in they have a lot to work with if the Giants get Chase Young and another ER in free agency.
I think Bettcher  
Joey in VA : 12/2/2019 12:45 pm : link
Wants to get fired, I really do. It's the only explanation of these half baked back end coverage schemes. He hates coaching this team as much as I hate watching it.
RE: We didn't all like the Bettcher hiring  
Johnny5 : 12/2/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14699522 Go Terps said:
Quote:
When he was hired I pointed out that the Arizona defense got worse each year he was there.

Hmm, it sure is looking like he inherited a really good defense from Bowles, and drove it into the ground in AZ.
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