Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

IF they have pick #1 and a new regime, should QB be in play?

Oscar : 12/2/2019 9:08 am
Obviously weíll have four months to discuss it but I wonder how people feel right now. I really like Jones, I think he looks like a good player. Heís more accurate than Eli ever was, seems to throw a catchable ball. Heís mobile, he seems like a great kid, smart, hard worker, etc.

I worry about his arm strength, how long he holds the ball, the lack of deep shots, the turnovers (although heís only a rookie).

My gut says heís a good young player doing what he can in a pretty bad situation. Not a lot of talent on the offense and the coaches are overmatched. I would stick with Jones. I also know I canít scout or project how these guys will do at all.

I assume Mara will insist any new hires agree to move forward with Jones. This almost certainly happened with Eli two years ago, I think itís a much smaller ask now; work with the young kid whoís played pretty well so far.

All that said, you donít get #1 overall very often. The Giants have never had it. They have to at least look at Burrow.

Is he an all-world prospect? Should a new regime be allowed to take him if they want him?

He is older than Jones for what thatís worth. And LSU has a talent advantage unlike anything Jones has ever experienced. But still curious what people think.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Gettleman is not going anywhere  
Gettledogman : 12/2/2019 11:30 am : link
Jones is not going anywhere. The team needs to continue adding talent this will be a very big offseason. Solder falling off has thrown a wrench into things but is still light years better than Flowers. Don't forget that. The D is a work in progress -we still need Lbrs that can dominate the middle of the field. The line seems to be working better. The rook still make rookie mistakes. Schumur is gone, Bettcher prolly too. Very disappointed with his results. I hope the Team hires Rivera. But you continue moving forward with this GM. We have added significant talent the last 2 yrs and that is not debatable. We have also removed headcases and potential detractors -Odell looks terrible, OV looks terrible, Apple lol, Snacks meh. These moves were smaht.
I don't think so.. (re OP)  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/2/2019 11:47 am : link
I think Jones looks as good as any QB in this draft. I'm not as high on Burrow as others are.

That being said I am in agreement that DG should NOT make this call. If a new GM feels Burrow is the guy over Young so be it.
Jones has good size, decent arm, good mobility  
djm : 12/2/2019 11:54 am : link
Good temperament and heís played in a collegiate offense that had pro style tendencies. Thatís the good.

Heís got ball security issues and he doesnít have a rocket arm. Heís also got issues making the right read. Heís a rookie so heís got room to grow.
All I know is if  
darren in pdx : 12/2/2019 11:59 am : link
they use a #1 or #2 on another QB Iím just going to stop watching football. People complain about the Barkley pick and youíre okay with taking a QB again when the guy you have now is showing well enough? Fixing the defense and o-line will improve the entire team.
RE: The new regime should have full autonomy  
GiantsFan84 : 12/2/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14699244 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If they want to pick Burrow, they should.


This. That being said, I'd have no problem sticking with Jones
If Trevor Lawrence was coming out then yes  
Dave in PA : 12/2/2019 12:18 pm : link
Otherwise, highly doubtful.
Fuck no  
Joey in VA : 12/2/2019 12:20 pm : link
And anyone saying so is a fucking retarded idiot. Do you want to know WHY we suck so fucking hard? We shit away high picks with nothing in return. Pugh, 1st round pick, walked away. Richburg, 2nd round pick, walked and starting for the probable NFC champions. Flowers, 1st round pick, lazy fucking shit head. Apple, 1st round pick, traded for basically nothing. You can't keep picking in the 1st and 2nd round and letting that entire core walk year after year after year and expect any improvement. Everything in this organization sucks save Daniel Jones.
Giants generally don't like to move on from big investments  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 12:24 pm : link
quickly barring extreme circumstances. This goes from a GM hire to the Head coach then top of the draft picks. Bottom draft picks are a different story.

They took Jones #6 overall in the entire draft. He's shown plenty of flashes despite an absolute horrible situation around him.

Lastly Burrow is not an all-world Qb prospect at #1.

QB at #1 is very,very unlikely.

Now trading down to #2 getting a 3rd round pick and taking Young at #2? That's a possibility. We saw something similar with Bears moving one spot up to take Tribitsky.
Yes, and then  
HomerJones45 : 12/2/2019 12:28 pm : link
let's change the name to Cardinals or Browns for our failure would be complete.

What a formula to get better: let's draft the same positions over and over again.

This team (and a good part of the fanbase) is schizophrenic. Can we stick with one plan, please? We took the top rb, "generational talent" with the number 2 pick in the entire fucking draft. That says this is going to be a running team with more or less a move the chains type qb. That would ordinarily dictate that we go and get o-linemen whose forte is run blocking and defensive players and not worry about pass blocking. We go get a coach who will run the ball and utilizes a short pass, move the chains passing game.

Are we switching philosopies now? If that is the case, you might as well off Barkley because he isn't needed.
The Giants wish they were the Cardinals or the Browns  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 12:41 pm : link
Jones is a sunk cost...it doesn't matter now if we drafted him in the first round or the 7th.

If and when someone else takes over the only way to do things right is to look at EVERY aspect of the team as a candidate for change to align with the new regime's plan. If Mara hires someone and says, "Fix this mess, but you have to do it with Jones, Barkley, Lawrence, etc..." then he's not doing anyone any favors.

For example, what if we want to hire Greg Roman? What if he has a great plan, interviews phenomenally, and has a good staff ready to go...he just doesn't think Jones can run his offense. Instead, he wants to draft Jalen Hurts or someone else and run it through that guy. Are we supposed to disqualify him for that?

No more half measures.
NO WAY!  
Manning10 : 12/2/2019 12:46 pm : link
One of the few reasons the Giants job would be attractive to a good candidate is a Talented young QB in place.
There is NO generational Type QB prospect (Elway , Mahomes etc) coming out next year anyway.
Build around him and you can start to win.
RE: Fuck no  
Gettledogman : 12/2/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14699680 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
And anyone saying so is a fucking retarded idiot. Do you want to know WHY we suck so fucking hard? We shit away high picks with nothing in return. Pugh, 1st round pick, walked away. Richburg, 2nd round pick, walked and starting for the probable NFC champions. Flowers, 1st round pick, lazy fucking shit head. Apple, 1st round pick, traded for basically nothing. You can't keep picking in the 1st and 2nd round and letting that entire core walk year after year after year and expect any improvement. Everything in this organization sucks save Daniel Jones.


Excellent points except the one about the organization. 4 Supes is pretty good and they will get it fixed. They have the right GM now.
RE: RE: No  
WillVAB : 12/2/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14699242 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14699230 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Chase Young is the best player in college football. Heís the kind of player that would return a Khalil Mack type haul if the Giants ever considered moving him. Heís the type of player who doesnít get to FA and who you only have a shot at if youíre in the Giants current position.

Heís the kind of player you build a defense around. Jones has shown enough to move forward with him as the franchise. Itís really a no brainer.



Although I agree with everything you say here, but people were saying the same thing about Clowney and Mario Williams before him.


There are no guarantees but Young is a much safer bet to be the next elite pass rusher than Burrows being the next John Elway.
'should QB be in play?'.....No  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 1:42 pm : link
Jones is taking his lumps but there are plenty of positives to indicate his future is bright. Same group that was coronating him a wunderkind and savior of our season is now panicking because he isn't Dan Marino in year one.
RE: The Giants wish they were the Cardinals or the Browns  
WillVAB : 12/2/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14699719 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Jones is a sunk cost...it doesn't matter now if we drafted him in the first round or the 7th.

If and when someone else takes over the only way to do things right is to look at EVERY aspect of the team as a candidate for change to align with the new regime's plan. If Mara hires someone and says, "Fix this mess, but you have to do it with Jones, Barkley, Lawrence, etc..." then he's not doing anyone any favors.

For example, what if we want to hire Greg Roman? What if he has a great plan, interviews phenomenally, and has a good staff ready to go...he just doesn't think Jones can run his offense. Instead, he wants to draft Jalen Hurts or someone else and run it through that guy. Are we supposed to disqualify him for that?

No more half measures.


If the next HC canít work with the skill set Jones offers then heís not a HC worth hiring.

You want to dick ride the Ravens model and thatís fine. But Harbaugh didnít find a QB to run his system. He built a simpleton Cracker Jack offense around the limited QB he was given (Lamar) that emphasized his strengths (running) and hid his weaknesses (throwing the football).

RE: RE: RE: No  
Giantz_comeback : 12/2/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14699819 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14699242 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


In comment 14699230 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Chase Young is the best player in college football. Heís the kind of player that would return a Khalil Mack type haul if the Giants ever considered moving him. Heís the type of player who doesnít get to FA and who you only have a shot at if youíre in the Giants current position.

Heís the kind of player you build a defense around. Jones has shown enough to move forward with him as the franchise. Itís really a no brainer.



Although I agree with everything you say here, but people were saying the same thing about Clowney and Mario Williams before him.




There are no guarantees but Young is a much safer bet to be the next elite pass rusher than Burrows being the next John Elway.


Young is the guy we want. Best player in the draft. We could get the best player 3 years straight if Jones proves to be the real deal.
did you hear Banks, Papa, and Diehl?  
ColHowPepper : 12/2/2019 2:55 pm : link
Shurmur (with his scheme or lack thereof to give DJ max potential for success) and DG with a terribly unsuccessful approach to improving the OL (yeah, let's stick with Halapio, he's shown well; Solder, Remmers), an ailing Saquon have collectively let Jones hang out to dry.

You see it every game with ER and interior linemen running free and a sub-par WR corps, no TE worthy of the name.

Yeah, let a new GM choose, but put DJ's performance in perspective
RE: The Giants wish they were the Cardinals or the Browns  
Dnew15 : 12/2/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14699719 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Jones is a sunk cost...it doesn't matter now if we drafted him in the first round or the 7th.

If and when someone else takes over the only way to do things right is to look at EVERY aspect of the team as a candidate for change to align with the new regime's plan. If Mara hires someone and says, "Fix this mess, but you have to do it with Jones, Barkley, Lawrence, etc..." then he's not doing anyone any favors.

For example, what if we want to hire Greg Roman? What if he has a great plan, interviews phenomenally, and has a good staff ready to go...he just doesn't think Jones can run his offense. Instead, he wants to draft Jalen Hurts or someone else and run it through that guy. Are we supposed to disqualify him for that?

No more half measures.


This would be something and it would take huge nuts to do.

Mara wouldn't do it - therefore it ain't gonna happen.

It would be somethin if they did it though.

What do you think Jones would fetch in a trade?
Terps if we're picking #2 and Young is gone  
BigBlueCane : 12/2/2019 3:03 pm : link
then you draft the best OL on the board and don't look back.

This team stupidly thought Nelson wasn't worth the #2 pick and picked Barkley instead. Turns out that was a mistake.
WillVAB  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 3:05 pm : link
That "simpleton, Cracker Jack offense" that Baltimore built leads the NFL in scoring, and dropped 30+ points each on Belichick, Carroll, and Wade Phillips.

And if Jackson is such a simpleton as a passer compared to Jones, why is he at 7.9 YPA v. Jones's 6.4? Why does he lead the NFL in TD passes and have a 25/5 TD/INT ratio? Why is he the frontrunner to win the MVP? Why are the Ravens the betting favorite to win the Super Bowl?

I know you want to rationalize otherwise, but Daniel Jones is not in Lamar Jackson's universe as a quarterback.

The pom-pom wavers live in an alternate universe, they really do.
Dnew  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 3:10 pm : link
I don't know what Jones would get in a trade. He doesn't look great at the moment.

I think a lot depends on timing. The Cardinals completely mishandled trading Rosen. If they'd done it quickly I think they would have gotten more than they did.

I don't think it's impossible to get a 2nd rounder for Jones...maybe even a 1st rounder. Remember, there are a lot of teams that look like they need to move on from veterans: Chargers, Steelers, Lions, possibly even New Orleans or New England. I think there'd be a market.
Just riding it out with Eli made so much more sense..  
Sean : 12/2/2019 3:15 pm : link
We likely would be no better than 4 wins with Eli - Gettleman/Shurmur could easily be fired and the new regime could draft the next QB.
RE: Just riding it out with Eli made so much more sense..  
Sean : 12/2/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14699994 Sean said:
Quote:
We likely would be no better than 4 wins with Eli - Gettleman/Shurmur could easily be fired and the new regime could draft the next QB.


Once you decided to pay him, should have just rolled with Eli.
RE: Just riding it out with Eli made so much more sense..  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14699994 Sean said:
Quote:
We likely would be no better than 4 wins with Eli - Gettleman/Shurmur could easily be fired and the new regime could draft the next QB.


Or draft Jones and cut Eli (therefore giving Jones an entire summer of starter's reps in camp and preseason). But entering the season with both was the work of complete fools.

Gettleman running this team is like me in the kitchen...I get halfway through the recipe and I realize I don't have any fucking eggs.
RE: RE: Just riding it out with Eli made so much more sense..  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14700000 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14699994 Sean said:


Quote:


We likely would be no better than 4 wins with Eli - Gettleman/Shurmur could easily be fired and the new regime could draft the next QB.



Or draft Jones and cut Eli (therefore giving Jones an entire summer of starter's reps in camp and preseason). But entering the season with both was the work of complete fools.

Gettleman running this team is like me in the kitchen...I get halfway through the recipe and I realize I don't have any fucking eggs.


Except that there is a long standing tradition of doing this all throughout the NFL.

It's not unusual to draft the future guy and have him sit behind the starter. It's not unprecedented, it's common.

If you could cite an example to the contrary I'd like to see it. Even your favorite Lamar Jackson sat behind Joe Flacco for 9 weeks. Flacco's cap hit last year was 24 million.
RE: RE: RE: Just riding it out with Eli made so much more sense..  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14700006 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14700000 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14699994 Sean said:


Quote:


We likely would be no better than 4 wins with Eli - Gettleman/Shurmur could easily be fired and the new regime could draft the next QB.



Or draft Jones and cut Eli (therefore giving Jones an entire summer of starter's reps in camp and preseason). But entering the season with both was the work of complete fools.

Gettleman running this team is like me in the kitchen...I get halfway through the recipe and I realize I don't have any fucking eggs.



Except that there is a long standing tradition of doing this all throughout the NFL.

It's not unusual to draft the future guy and have him sit behind the starter. It's not unprecedented, it's common.

If you could cite an example to the contrary I'd like to see it. Even your favorite Lamar Jackson sat behind Joe Flacco for 9 weeks. Flacco's cap hit last year was 24 million.


Yeah, and that was idiotic of Baltimore. Had they gone with Jackson from the start they probably end the season with a better record, and who knows from there? The same applies to Kansas City...if I were a Chiefs fan I'd be asking why wasn't Mahomes playing from the outset? They wasted a year of Mahomes's rookie contract.

Besides all that, your rationale is other teams in the NFL were stupid, so the Giants should be too?
I would stop watching this franchise if they make that type  
Junior22 : 12/2/2019 3:34 pm : link
of mistake. Jones has been the brightest thing about this year next to Slayton and people want the Giants to waste a pick on the one position that is young and cheap with super talent on the roster right now? How about draft talent to surround your young stud
RE: The new regime should have full autonomy  
Junior22 : 12/2/2019 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14699244 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If they want to pick Burrow, they should.


Why was the last regime not allowed to do the same?
RE: What is happening?  
Junior22 : 12/2/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14699390 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
How is this even a conversation?


The Ehive are at it again
RE: No  
Junior22 : 12/2/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14699412 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
They made their bed with Jones. And he's showed enough promise.

They have to fix the defense and the OL.


Next BBI will tell us that they need to draft a rb
RE: RE: What is happening?  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14700030 Junior22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14699390 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


How is this even a conversation?



The Ehive are at it again


This has nothing to do with Eli, what are you talking about?
Woulda, coulda, shoulda  
HomerJones45 : 12/2/2019 4:07 pm : link
There are a lot of things we could have done and we didn't. That is all now spilt milk.

So what to do going forward. If you look at the offense, it is a run first offense with a qb that is supposed to be an accurate short passer and a couple of possession receivers.

I think that was the original vision (the Vikes led the league in rushing Shurmur's last year as OC), but Shurmur appears to have reverted to Shurmur. (maybe Zimmer had a good deal of influence in the rushing Vikings).

So, it would seem that the way forward is to improve the o-line with run blockers and not worry about pass protection.

If that is the case, this is not a quick strike offensive scheme which means there needs to be a stout defense. Since ours is anything but, it would indicate that we should be heavily drafting defensive players at all positions and cannot horse around with projects or rookies who are not making an impact.

Now if you disagree with the philosophy, that's ok,but that means constructing an entirely different team than what we have and also points in the direction of trading Barkley, taking our chances in putting the offense in the hands of Jones, drafting receivers who can get down the field and dispensing with the short pass/high completion percentage philosophy that had taken hold here.
RE: WillVAB  
WillVAB : 12/2/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14699985 Go Terps said:
Quote:
That "simpleton, Cracker Jack offense" that Baltimore built leads the NFL in scoring, and dropped 30+ points each on Belichick, Carroll, and Wade Phillips.

And if Jackson is such a simpleton as a passer compared to Jones, why is he at 7.9 YPA v. Jones's 6.4? Why does he lead the NFL in TD passes and have a 25/5 TD/INT ratio? Why is he the frontrunner to win the MVP? Why are the Ravens the betting favorite to win the Super Bowl?

I know you want to rationalize otherwise, but Daniel Jones is not in Lamar Jackson's universe as a quarterback.

The pom-pom wavers live in an alternate universe, they really do.


Anyone who knows what theyíre watching can see the Ravens offense is set up to protect Lamar. Everything is 5-8 yard dump offs to TEs when heís not running.

Roman did the same shit with Tyrod in Buffalo. Tyrod isnít the electric runner that Lamar is, but a lot of similar concepts. Very safe throws and emphasize the athleticism.
WillVAB  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 7:58 pm : link
You should do some research.

Jackson's IAY (Average Intended Air Yards) is 8.9...that's 10th in the league. Want to know Daniel Jones's? 7.7. 27th in the league.

You can also check out Jackson's +/- on his Completion Percentage Above Expectation...1.7%. Daniel Jones: -.4%.

This isn't meant to knock Jones. He's a struggling rookie and I'm comparing him to the best player in the league (though Jackson only has 9 more starts under his belt than Jones does). But you seem to be implying that Jones is a better passer than Jackson...and that isn't true anywhere except in the hearts of bewildered Giants fans.
NextGen Stats can help you - ( New Window )
THe new regime should be given a free hand  
.McL. : 12/2/2019 8:00 pm : link
to remake the team however they want.

I think Jones has shown enough to continue working with him. But, there are deficiencies in his game so far. If the new regime decides that these deficiencies can't be fixed and we need to move on, then so be it.
I like Jones but the new regime should have their choice at QB  
TD : 12/2/2019 8:18 pm : link
If itís Jones great. If not, you take the new QB and trade Jones for a first rounder (I think he can fetch that).

QB is by far the most important position. You donít handcuff a new coach/GM with a QB they donít like.

That said, I donít know whatís not to like about Jones. His issues seem correctable and he has shown a lot of the key skills/traits you look for, regardless of scheme. I hope they keep him and add a ton of D talent (Young would be a great start).
The fact that the Giants both paid Eli $23M ďto competeĒ  
NoGainDayne : 12/2/2019 8:23 pm : link
and also managed to put Jones in such a horrendous situation is historic ineptitude.

Itís a real shame that there isnít better information on what Jones is capable of with a better supporting cast.

That being said, ideally, the right front office group is brought in has a better plan and should be given full license to pursue that plan. Jones, personality wise seems very skittish (seemed that way in the pre-season fan round table especially watching him live), heís clearly also very talented but a big part of the decision should be can he be a team leader. Frankly, I donít think DG cares much about personality traits beyond reverence for authority but thatís a part of this that fans donít have a real window into and it would be great to see a real change in approach at the top that could give fans confidence that they are doing things to compete in the modern NFL

RE: WillVAB  
WillVAB : 12/2/2019 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14700486 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You should do some research.

Jackson's IAY (Average Intended Air Yards) is 8.9...that's 10th in the league. Want to know Daniel Jones's? 7.7. 27th in the league.

You can also check out Jackson's +/- on his Completion Percentage Above Expectation...1.7%. Daniel Jones: -.4%.

This isn't meant to knock Jones. He's a struggling rookie and I'm comparing him to the best player in the league (though Jackson only has 9 more starts under his belt than Jones does). But you seem to be implying that Jones is a better passer than Jackson...and that isn't true anywhere except in the hearts of bewildered Giants fans. NextGen Stats can help you - ( New Window )


Yawn. Watch the games stat dork. Itís lollipop jump balls to TEs all day.

Heís going to get exposed in the playoffs. Again. BB is going to stack the box all game and dare Jackson to beat his defense deep 1v1 on the outside.
So your points include  
NoGainDayne : 12/2/2019 10:56 pm : link
1. That we need to watch the games to somehow think Lamar Jackson is worse and Jones is better?

2. Lamar Jackson is going to get "exposed" by a team he thumped already this season?

And you have a problem with the way others are analyzing things?
How is it possible  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 11:01 pm : link
Someone is, if I'm reading it right, saying that Jones is a better QB than the MVP frontrunner on the AFC #1 seed.

So many posters that you can't take seriously.
RE: How is it possible  
AndyMilligan : 12/2/2019 11:03 pm : link
In comment 14700700 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Someone is, if I'm reading it right, saying that Jones is a better QB than the MVP frontrunner on the AFC #1 seed.

So many posters that you can't take seriously.


unreal.. especially after Jones posted a 3 pick stinker..
RE: RE: WillVAB  
bw in dc : 12/2/2019 11:51 pm : link
In comment 14700676 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Yawn. Watch the games stat dork. Itís lollipop jump balls to TEs all day.

Heís going to get exposed in the playoffs. Again. BB is going to stack the box all game and dare Jackson to beat his defense deep 1v1 on the outside.


The Ravens are running a very unique, gimmicky offense. And it's brilliant because the trigger man is the shaping up to be the greatest dual threat QB in league history. No one is confusing LJax with Aaron Rodgers with his throwing style and ability, but you really aren't paying attention if you don't think LJax has vastly improved as a passer. He's got a league leading 81+ QBR. Sorry, but that's not a bunch of "lollipops".

As for BBI constructing a D to neutralize LJax, I'm not so sure because that three headed TE monster the Ravens run puts tremendous pressure on the Pats LBS. And they just aren't good in coverage right now.
BBI = BB...  
bw in dc : 12/2/2019 11:52 pm : link
for Belichick...
RE: WillVAB  
Dnew15 : 12/3/2019 7:48 am : link
In comment 14700486 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You should do some research.

Jackson's IAY (Average Intended Air Yards) is 8.9...that's 10th in the league. Want to know Daniel Jones's? 7.7. 27th in the league.

You can also check out Jackson's +/- on his Completion Percentage Above Expectation...1.7%. Daniel Jones: -.4%.

This isn't meant to knock Jones. He's a struggling rookie and I'm comparing him to the best player in the league (though Jackson only has 9 more starts under his belt than Jones does). But you seem to be implying that Jones is a better passer than Jackson...and that isn't true anywhere except in the hearts of bewildered Giants fans. NextGen Stats can help you - ( New Window )


It kinda sounds like a knock on Jones. I'll give you that LJ is seemingly 9 games ahead of Jones - put LJ had the benefit of completing an entire preseason as the clear-cut #1 and having an offense completely designed for him. Jones was the #2 QB in the pre-season and was forced to play (at least in some parts and at least at the beginning) into a Shurmur offense intended to be run by Eli.

Not to knock LJ, but last year he turned the Ravens around and was 6-1 down the stretch. 4 of those wins came against teams that were terrible (Atl, TB, Cincy, Oak)he beat the Chargers, Cleveland and took KC to OT and lost. He threw for over 200 yards once in that 7 game stretch. He threw 3 Ints and fumbled 11 times. Last years Ravens defense was significantly better than the crap the NYG are running out there very week on defense. Aside from W-L, Jones stacks up very well against LJ in his first year.

He was clearly outmatched in the playoff game against the Chargers. He had no shot in that game.
Jones canít touch LJaxís impact...  
bw in dc : 12/3/2019 8:16 am : link
on time of possession. His ability to run, move the chains, keep the clock moving, and keep his D on the sidelines is unique and special.

In effect, he makes both sides of the ball better for the Ravens.
I agree with your statement in general  
Dnew15 : 12/3/2019 9:32 am : link
There is no doubt that LJ's ability to move the chains is what makes Balt's offense click. They are an offense built on running the football, not just with LJ however.

I agree that LJ helps the defense by keeping the offense on the field...but let's not forget that it also goes both ways. The Ravens defense has allowed 220 first downs this year to the NYG defense which has allowed 244. That's an extra 24 possessions thus far to work with.

The Ravens defense is also getting very stingy on 3rd down as a defense - in the last 3 games the Ravens defense has allowed a 3rd down conversion rate of 25% versus the Giants defense which allows a 36% conversion rate.

LJ is better than Daniel Jones right now - no doubt...but the Ravens have a much better team than do the Giants. The Giants defense is terrible. Although, I will say, as much as I hate to admit it, the defense has been rather stout against the run recently.
RE: I agree with your statement in general  
AndyMilligan : 12/3/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14700915 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
There is no doubt that LJ's ability to move the chains is what makes Balt's offense click. They are an offense built on running the football, not just with LJ however.

I agree that LJ helps the defense by keeping the offense on the field...but let's not forget that it also goes both ways. The Ravens defense has allowed 220 first downs this year to the NYG defense which has allowed 244. That's an extra 24 possessions thus far to work with.

The Ravens defense is also getting very stingy on 3rd down as a defense - in the last 3 games the Ravens defense has allowed a 3rd down conversion rate of 25% versus the Giants defense which allows a 36% conversion rate.

LJ is better than Daniel Jones right now - no doubt...but the Ravens have a much better team than do the Giants. The Giants defense is terrible. Although, I will say, as much as I hate to admit it, the defense has been rather stout against the run recently.


"LJ is better than Daniel Jones right now"..

and probably forever. It is highly unlikely that Jones will ever be an MVP candidate this late in the season. That's just math.
RIght now -- if the number 1 pick is not a defensive stud  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/3/2019 12:05 pm : link
the entire front office should be lined up and shot - and then stomped on and then either burned or hung in effigy
RE: I agree with your statement in general  
bw in dc : 12/3/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14700915 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
There is no doubt that LJ's ability to move the chains is what makes Balt's offense click. They are an offense built on running the football, not just with LJ however.

I agree that LJ helps the defense by keeping the offense on the field...but let's not forget that it also goes both ways. The Ravens defense has allowed 220 first downs this year to the NYG defense which has allowed 244. That's an extra 24 possessions thus far to work with.



The Ravens D is playing very well. They continue to get confidence and improve. But I think they still benefit from the O keeping the ball; and not the other way around with the D making stops. Let's look at this:

The Ravens are possessing the ball at 34.32 mins/per game. The Giants, for example, are at 28.49 mins/per game. That's a big delta and largely a derivative of LJax and their unorthodox offense.

Sure, they have a nice stable of RBs. But LJax is the piece that takes them to the next level. If he's goes down, do you RG3 steps in and does the same thing? Of course not. LJax is essentially a taller, leaner Barry Sanders but with an ability to pass the ball. The guy right now is the ultimate force multiplier.

RE: RIght now -- if the number 1 pick is not a defensive stud  
Thegratefulhead : 12/3/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14701124 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the entire front office should be lined up and shot - and then stomped on and then either burned or hung in effigy
Yup. The talent is so bare on D we need help. We are going to have ride the youngins' in the secondary. We need pash rush. Every rookie plays, lose out, draft Young. Sign none of the top dollar FAs. Let Golden go, take to pick. Sign a bunch(some ERs) of second tier FA that didn't get the big offer they wanted to one year prove it deals, Let them walk after, collect more picks. You sign those big FAs when you are close to a title. No more Solders.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner