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IF they have pick #1 and a new regime, should QB be in play?

Oscar : 12/2/2019 9:08 am
Obviously we’ll have four months to discuss it but I wonder how people feel right now. I really like Jones, I think he looks like a good player. He’s more accurate than Eli ever was, seems to throw a catchable ball. He’s mobile, he seems like a great kid, smart, hard worker, etc.

I worry about his arm strength, how long he holds the ball, the lack of deep shots, the turnovers (although he’s only a rookie).

My gut says he’s a good young player doing what he can in a pretty bad situation. Not a lot of talent on the offense and the coaches are overmatched. I would stick with Jones. I also know I can’t scout or project how these guys will do at all.

I assume Mara will insist any new hires agree to move forward with Jones. This almost certainly happened with Eli two years ago, I think it’s a much smaller ask now; work with the young kid who’s played pretty well so far.

All that said, you don’t get #1 overall very often. The Giants have never had it. They have to at least look at Burrow.

Is he an all-world prospect? Should a new regime be allowed to take him if they want him?

He is older than Jones for what that’s worth. And LSU has a talent advantage unlike anything Jones has ever experienced. But still curious what people think.
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If the goal is to accumulate the best roster possible  
The_Boss : 12/2/2019 9:09 am : link
And a better QB prospect is out there with a higher ceiling, then yes.

Football is a cut throat ruthless business. If Jones is deemed expendable, so be it.
I think Young is a better prospect than any of the QBs coming out  
Mike from Ohio : 12/2/2019 9:14 am : link
So I would hope a new regime keeps Jones, drafts Young, and then goes from there.

However, what really has to happen is that Mara can't put that qualification on anyone he interviews for GM. If you are hiring a GM you have to let him build the team the way he sees fit. If Mara has made the decision that Jones stays regardless of who the GM is, then he is becoming the de facto GM, which is a very serious problem.
Joe Burrow is NOT Trevor Lawrence... not even remotely.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/2/2019 9:18 am : link
To be honest, I'm not sure I would trust any coach who thinks Jones doesn't have what it takes to succeed at a high level. I would still draft a generational QB talent like Lawrence/Luck/Elway, etc., but Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert? GTFOH.
No  
jeff57 : 12/2/2019 9:19 am : link
.
The Best GM Candidate  
Lambuth_Special : 12/2/2019 9:22 am : link
Should be given free reign to make decisions on quarterback, including moving on from Jones if they deem it necessary.

For the love of god, no more "preserving continuity" moves for this franchise.

I could go either way with Jones. He's made a lot of great throws but doesn't do it consistently enough during games and it shows in the lack of points. It could very well be a coaching problem, however, since Shurmur's absolute peak as an OC was the no. 10 offense with a talented Vikings squad. he's sure as hell not some offensive guru.

It would be an interesting offseason for sure, but I doubt they are going to remove DG.
Burrow  
widmerseyebrow : 12/2/2019 9:24 am : link
One really good year and doesnt seem to make any audibles at the line that dont come right from the coaches on the sidelines. What could go wrong?


He might be the guy because thats the reality of getting a new coach, but this is hardly a team that can afford to quarterback prospects when the rest of the roster is in shambles.
No  
WillVAB : 12/2/2019 9:25 am : link
Chase Young is the best player in college football. He’s the kind of player that would return a Khalil Mack type haul if the Giants ever considered moving him. He’s the type of player who doesn’t get to FA and who you only have a shot at if you’re in the Giants current position.

He’s the kind of player you build a defense around. Jones has shown enough to move forward with him as the franchise. It’s really a no brainer.
Of course a QB should be in play  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 9:25 am : link
If for no reason to ensure the NYGs have the greatest leverage possible if they want to move out of the pick.
Jones is as good  
jeff57 : 12/2/2019 9:27 am : link
As any of the QBs coming out, especially with Tua's health. Now if you were talking about 2021, with Lawrence and Fields, that's a different story.
RE: No  
figgy2989 : 12/2/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14699230 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Chase Young is the best player in college football. He’s the kind of player that would return a Khalil Mack type haul if the Giants ever considered moving him. He’s the type of player who doesn’t get to FA and who you only have a shot at if you’re in the Giants current position.

He’s the kind of player you build a defense around. Jones has shown enough to move forward with him as the franchise. It’s really a no brainer.


Although I agree with everything you say here, but people were saying the same thing about Clowney and Mario Williams before him.

The new regime should have full autonomy  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 9:29 am : link
If they want to pick Burrow, they should.
If there is a new GM and head coach,  
eugibs : 12/2/2019 9:32 am : link
then they should have full autonomy to make that decision either way. Jones has looked mostly solid, but no player on the roster should be forced on a new regime if they do not believe in that player. If you hire people to do a job, let them do that job.

Also, only seriously considering head coach or gm candidates who profess belief in Jones is the same thing as forcing him on a new regime. In both cases, its ownership, in effect, making the key roster determinations. This is what happened with Eli two years ago, and it has set the franchise back immeasurably.

But this is likely a moot question. Dumping DG after this season would require a level of self-awareness and reality-based decision making that the owners have shown no indication that they possess.
No.  
AcidTest : 12/2/2019 9:35 am : link
If the Giants have the #1 pick, then they should take Young or trade down if someone offers an enormous haul of picks. That's true even if DG is fired, which is highly unlikely IMO.

Burrow looks like a great prospect. But he's an unknown. Jones has proven he can play in the NFL, and at a high level. He will be much better when his supporting cast improves. He has nothing right now.
What did Chase Young do against a Michigan team  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 9:40 am : link
that was forced to pass all day long?
Jones is a bird in the hand. Good arm, good legs,  
CT Charlie : 12/2/2019 9:42 am : link
good size, tough, and a great temperament - perfect for leading the team in the glare of NY media, which is no small thing. The only thing we the fans don't know about him is how football-smart he is, and how his teammates feel. But unless there are some weaknesses there, I'd keep a known quantity like Jones over any two-in-the-bush guys coming out of college because with them it's all speculation.
Jones is mostly  
Scooter185 : 12/2/2019 9:49 am : link
Projection still at this point too. If they do clean house completely, yes the new regime should have full control over every aspect on the roster.
RE: What did Chase Young do against a Michigan team  
barens : 12/2/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14699277 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that was forced to pass all day long?


I find it hilarious when people think he has to have a sack or highlight plays to have an impact. Did you happen to notice how many blockers Michigan sent his way? How quickly Patterson got rid of the ball? I also noticed quite a few pressures when he was one on one, one especially where he just blew by Runyan.
The Giants have too many premium slots to fill  
KeoweeFan : 12/2/2019 10:05 am : link
If DJ were a bust it would be another situation but he has shown a lot of positives as a rookie.

Use the high draft picks to fill glaring needs on the OL and LB; and trading down should also be in consideration.
Why  
5BowlsSoon : 12/2/2019 10:06 am : link
In round one and round two.

And while we are at it, let’s do it again next year as well.
You take Chase Young and don't look back.  
Section331 : 12/2/2019 10:09 am : link
Any of the QB's available have at least as many question marks as DJ, Chase Young is as close to a sure thing as you can find at a premium position.

If we don't have the 1st pick and Young is gone, I'd look to trade the pick to a team desperate for a QB. Look at what the Colts got with the trade with the Jets - 3 starters with those picks, one an all-pro, another DROY.
What is happening?  
Giants in 07 : 12/2/2019 10:12 am : link
How is this even a conversation?
RE: RE: What did Chase Young do against a Michigan team  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14699365 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 14699277 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


that was forced to pass all day long?



I find it hilarious when people think he has to have a sack or highlight plays to have an impact. Did you happen to notice how many blockers Michigan sent his way? How quickly Patterson got rid of the ball? I also noticed quite a few pressures when he was one on one, one especially where he just blew by Runyan.


I didn't watch the whole game but a good bit and ask the question for those that think he is the "goods". I don't watch Ohio State so I haven't seen all these games that he dominated. I watched this one because its finally good competition for Ohio St and Chase seemed very quiet.

I would love if Young is a dominant NFL player and he was our pick. But right now I think our 1st round could have much more value grabbing a bunch of red-chippers.
Yes, yes, yes  
5BowlsSoon : 12/2/2019 10:17 am : link
We definitely should pick a qb In round one and I think we should also pick one up in round two as well.

And while we are at it, let’s do it again next year too. You can never have enough qbs. We should have at least five on the roster. With the 5 qbs we have accumulated, we can Then teach them how to be tackles and EDGE rushers in their spare time.

And the real beauty of having 5 qbs is that as soon as one commits a turnover, we bench him and put the next guy in. We definitely don’t want a qb committing any turnover without receiving his punishment (benching).
I’m open to the idea...  
bw in dc : 12/2/2019 10:17 am : link
It’s a reasonable suggestion by the OP.

I’m not sold on Burrow - firmly in the camp: one year starter surrounded by tremendous NFL caliber talent - but more sold him than I was on Jones. So Burrow at #1,2, or 3 may be a tough pill to swallow...

The other interesting question to me is what comp could we get in trading Jones? I’d love to get back more picks to offset the asinine trade we did to acquire LW...
No  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/2/2019 10:19 am : link
They made their bed with Jones. And he's showed enough promise.

They have to fix the defense and the OL.
I'd personally be wary of Burrow  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 10:19 am : link
But I think a new regime should have carte blanche to make whatever decisions they feel are necessary. If they want Burrow, then they draft Burrow and trade Jones.
5 picks between pick #10 or so.  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 10:22 am : link
And pick #45 or so.

And two more before pick #95 or so.

Mostly LBs and safeties 1,2,3, and 4 and center, TE and right O tackle 5,6,7, not by round.

Plus a new system on offense with an empowered proven real nfl level head coach who picks the assistants on both sides.

Or your blue goose  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 10:24 am : link
But one player is only one player
If Lamar Jackson was drafted by the Giants (to play QB)  
widmerseyebrow : 12/2/2019 10:25 am : link
I doubt you'd see anywhere near the success he's having in Baltimore. This draft needs to be about getting foundation pieces so our QB (be it Jones or someone else in the future) doesn't get murdered.
A new regime  
Josh in the City : 12/2/2019 10:29 am : link
should 100% without question have the ability to choose their own QB. Their evaluation of Jones should be based on his college career as well as what he has put on tape during his rookie season. If they feel he is the best player to move forward with then that's great and hopefully we can add another impact player. If not, then get the player they want. You don't start a new regime by tying one hand behind your back.
no  
fkap : 12/2/2019 10:34 am : link
DJ has shown enough to stick with.
It would be the perfect spot to trade down a step or two and still get the player you want. teams at 2 or 3 are going to want a QB, and will have to bid for it to make sure no one else jumps up to trade with us.

Even if it's just a bag of donuts, it's still something extra.
i wouldn't dump Jones for either Tua or Burrows.  
markky : 12/2/2019 10:36 am : link
Burrows has been good for one year. Tua has had 3 injuries requiring surgery in less than 2 years. and I don't think Tua is that much better than Jones if at all. I think Jones is more athletic and almost as accurate.

the only QB I'd pick over Jones at the moment is Trevor Lawrence. I've been on the TL bandwagon since his first spring practice.

Definitely not  
Eli Wilson : 12/2/2019 10:46 am : link
Too many holes to fill and Jones is not an issue.

Yes, the Cardinals did it last year but Jones has played way better than Rosen did. Plus Murray was a better fit for the offense that they wanted to run.

I think Jones could run any type of offensive system, so it's a totally different situation.

Just for comparison of rookie #'s Jones vs last year's rookies:

Jones(10 gms) - 61.6% Comp, 2174 Yds, 18 TD, 11 INT, 84.0 Rate
Rosen(13 gms) - 55.2% Comp, 2278 Yds, 11 TD, 16 INT, 66.7 Rate
Darnold(13gms) - 57.1% Comp, 2865 Yds, 17 TD, 15 INT, 77.6 Rate
Josh Allen(11 gms) - 52.8% Comp, 2074 Yds, 10 TD, 12 INT, 67.9 Rate
Lamar Jackson(7 gms) - 58.2% Comp, 1201 Yds, 6 TD, 3 INT, 84.5 Rate

All of those guys, except Rosen, improved their numbers significantly in year 2. We should expect the same from Jones.

RE: RE: RE: What did Chase Young do against a Michigan team  
barens : 12/2/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14699396 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14699365 barens said:


Quote:


In comment 14699277 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


that was forced to pass all day long?



I find it hilarious when people think he has to have a sack or highlight plays to have an impact. Did you happen to notice how many blockers Michigan sent his way? How quickly Patterson got rid of the ball? I also noticed quite a few pressures when he was one on one, one especially where he just blew by Runyan.



I didn't watch the whole game but a good bit and ask the question for those that think he is the "goods". I don't watch Ohio State so I haven't seen all these games that he dominated. I watched this one because its finally good competition for Ohio St and Chase seemed very quiet.

I would love if Young is a dominant NFL player and he was our pick. But right now I think our 1st round could have much more value grabbing a bunch of red-chippers.


I hear you, but someone who can get to the QB with regularity would change the fortunes of this defense in a hurry. And someone who's going to take up more than one blocker will help someone else as well.

As for having to prove himself, there is nothing left to prove. He's dominated some really good competition, and I'd wager he's going to do the same in the college football playoffs.

The draft is a crapshoot - even in the 1st round  
PatersonPlank : 12/2/2019 10:55 am : link
If you hava guy who is showing promise, like Jones is, you stick with him rather than taking another "flyer". Its the "Bird in the Hand" thing. I'd like Chase, a LB, or an OT.
If you’re a new GM/Coach  
Touchdown maker : 12/2/2019 10:56 am : link
It almost make no sense to draft a new QB. You’d have to really, really ,really believe in the guy. Young is a seemingly cant miss prospect at a premium position/skill set. You take that guy, see if Jones is the goods and if he’s not you buy yourself more time by pointing out he’s not your guy and drafting a new qb.

The giants taking a QB this year would almost insure they’re terrible again next year. They need immediate impact from the draft and a qb is going to just struggle again. Jones has done more then enough to show that with better surrounding cast and seasoning he can be a quality NFL starter. I don’t see star potential but I sure think he can a back end of the top 15 QB.
What if we're picking #2 and Young is off the board?  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 10:57 am : link
?
The only sure-fire way to send  
Dnew15 : 12/2/2019 10:58 am : link
this franchise into one of the worst eras of losing EVER is to continually hit the reset button over and over.

Changing the GM-coach-QB is hitting the reset button. Again.
RE: The only sure-fire way to send  
Scooter185 : 12/2/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14699516 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
this franchise into one of the worst eras of losing EVER is to continually hit the reset button over and over.

Changing the GM-coach-QB is hitting the reset button. Again.


The Giants as currently constructed and an SNES cart have a lot in common. Sometimes you have to blow it out and hit reset a few times to get it to work
RE: What if we're picking #2 and Young is off the board?  
jeff57 : 12/2/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14699512 Go Terps said:
Quote:
?


I'd trade down
RE: Definitely not  
Josh in the City : 12/2/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14699477 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Too many holes to fill and Jones is not an issue.



This is a pretty confident statement about a player who is on a record pace for turnovers. Has Jones shown flashes of his ability to turn into a good player? Absolutely. Is he anywhere close to a sure thing at this point? Absolutely not.
Second the statement...  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 11:11 am : link
that for a sure-thing franchise QB you pull the trigger, but for a guy who just happens to be the best of his class (as seems to be the case with the two names bounced around this year) you give Daniel Jones a shot and look elsewhere. With elite trench talent like Chase Young and Andrew Thomas they should have plenty of options, and if someone wants to knock their socks off for the pick so be it.
Seriously?  
oldutican : 12/2/2019 11:26 am : link
Why would anyone have doubts about Jones? The team around him sucks, yet he makes plays. Yes too many mistakes, but these are things a QB should grow out of.
Man-  
Dnew15 : 12/2/2019 11:27 am : link
I think there are probably 4-5 QBs this year that would have been drafted ahead of Jones, and I think it's a good QB draft class...but I don't know which of the guys available you can look at and say for sure this is a slam dunk OR this guy is definitely going to be better than what we got in Daniel Jones day one.

Having said that - I'm terrible at evaluating who's going to be good in the NFL. I would make for the worst Sy ever.
Gettleman is not going anywhere  
Gettledogman : 12/2/2019 11:30 am : link
Jones is not going anywhere. The team needs to continue adding talent this will be a very big offseason. Solder falling off has thrown a wrench into things but is still light years better than Flowers. Don't forget that. The D is a work in progress -we still need Lbrs that can dominate the middle of the field. The line seems to be working better. The rook still make rookie mistakes. Schumur is gone, Bettcher prolly too. Very disappointed with his results. I hope the Team hires Rivera. But you continue moving forward with this GM. We have added significant talent the last 2 yrs and that is not debatable. We have also removed headcases and potential detractors -Odell looks terrible, OV looks terrible, Apple lol, Snacks meh. These moves were smaht.
I don't think so.. (re OP)  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/2/2019 11:47 am : link
I think Jones looks as good as any QB in this draft. I'm not as high on Burrow as others are.

That being said I am in agreement that DG should NOT make this call. If a new GM feels Burrow is the guy over Young so be it.
Jones has good size, decent arm, good mobility  
djm : 12/2/2019 11:54 am : link
Good temperament and he’s played in a collegiate offense that had pro style tendencies. That’s the good.

He’s got ball security issues and he doesn’t have a rocket arm. He’s also got issues making the right read. He’s a rookie so he’s got room to grow.
All I know is if  
darren in pdx : 12/2/2019 11:59 am : link
they use a #1 or #2 on another QB I’m just going to stop watching football. People complain about the Barkley pick and you’re okay with taking a QB again when the guy you have now is showing well enough? Fixing the defense and o-line will improve the entire team.
RE: The new regime should have full autonomy  
GiantsFan84 : 12/2/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14699244 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If they want to pick Burrow, they should.


This. That being said, I'd have no problem sticking with Jones
If Trevor Lawrence was coming out then yes  
Dave in PA : 12/2/2019 12:18 pm : link
Otherwise, highly doubtful.
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