Since its a Monday after a loss ( happening way too often ), let's throw out a quick speculation: let's say Shurmur is gone ( think that's a certainty at this point ), and Gettleman "retires" ( less a certainty but a very distinct possibility in part - but not fully - due to legitimate health issues ), what's the chance they promote Kevin Abrams to GM and, if they do, will they go out to hire a "VP of Player Personnel" type - a la Howie Roseman - GM / Joe Douglas - VP situation.
It's my understanding that Abrams is very good with the salary cap, so I'm thinking he wouldn't be "purged", but in this scenario who would be a good candidate for Player Personnel VP ( for those BBIers in the know )?
Thanks guys and fire away!
I think Abrams stays which opens the door to a candidate who wants to make football decisions. You could argue that McDaniels is a solid candidate if you trust pat assistants
I'd avoid the flashy, one hit wonder organizations.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
They should be top five in cap room given how little talent is actually on the roster, but too many overpaid guys in the middle of the roster and too much reliance on year-to-year guaranteed money triggers like roster bonuses and workout bonuses effectively act on a drag for their cap each year.
It would be great if the Giants had someone in that role who could actually represent a relative advantage vs. the league, since savvy cap management obviously has a direct correlation to how much you can spend on your roster each year, and that spending strength, if coupled with a strong scouting operation, can provide a clear competitive advantage.
The Giants have neither of those in their favor, and Abrams avoids scorn because he's not the one building the roster, presumably. But he's not exactly doing an exemplary job of funding the roster, either. He's just ok.
-- He's been at Jints Central for 20 years.
-- He's shown incredible loyalty.
-- He's been Assistant GM.
-- He's fully indoctrinated in the "Giants Way".
And let's face it, if not for Accorsi's recommending Resume Dave in 2017, Abrams, at the time the acting GM, probably gets the job.
I feel 97% certain Mara rewards Abrams not for skill or ability, but for that loyalty and taking the next step on the "Giants Way" ladder.
So I pray for the other 3% because I think this type of hire could send us deeper into the hole for at least another 5 years.
Because I have no idea - zero - if Abrams is good at his current job or if he has any ability to be good at this much bigger job.
-- He's been at Jints Central for 20 years.
-- He's shown incredible loyalty.
-- He's been Assistant GM.
-- He's fully indoctrinated in the "Giants Way".
And let's face it, if not for Accorsi's recommending Resume Dave in 2017, Abrams, at the time the acting GM, probably gets the job.
I feel 97% certain Mara rewards Abrams not for skill or ability, but for that loyalty and taking the next step on the "Giants Way" ladder.
So I pray for the other 3% because I think this type of hire could send us deeper into the hole for at least another 5 years.
Because I have no idea - zero - if Abrams is good at his current job or if he has any ability to be good at this much bigger job.
Mara will make the Mafia blush with his valuing of loyalty.
Because he's been a loyal servant, understands the "Giants way" and Mara likes him. Those traits are more important to Mara than hiring someone who can actually put together a winning roster.
Those are the facts and they are not in dispute.
I would break the bank to hire away Will McCall away from the Cowboys to be our next GM.
He is the sole reason for the resurgence of the Cowboys over the past 5 years. Not Jerry or Stephen Jones.
This is a terrific idea. McClay is the hidden force at Jerry's World.
Doesnt make sense. Gettleman is getting another year, come to terms with that now.
Gettlemen consults/assists the new staff put together the draft and then retires following in May.
New HC is more publicly given personnel control and Abrams is promoted to GM, mostly as the cap guy.
I could live with that outcome.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
The Giants are currently #8 in cap space for 2020, with more coming in the form of the regular annual raise and the shedding of Eli, et al. That's hardly middle-of-the-pack.
Giants.com disagrees:
Link - ( New Window )
Business terms in non legalese by the line executive and "contract" details by the staff guy.
I don't know which is which in the Giants organization but I don't know too many places where the deal maker is confused with the technocrat
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post on BBI and/or work in East Rutherford.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
The Giants are currently #8 in cap space for 2020, with more coming in the form of the regular annual raise and the shedding of Eli, et al. That's hardly middle-of-the-pack.
Where are you getting that they're #8? OTC has them at #12 in current cap room for 2020, and 13th in effective cap space (since they only have 36 players under contract for 2020).
The Giants currently have $63.8M in 2020 space, with the league median at $50.5M and the league average at $49.7M. They're not squarely on the middle, but they're a lot closer to that $50M midpoint than they are to the top (average of $95.9M cap room for the top 5 teams in terms of space).
I guess we can debate the semantics of "middle of the pack," but the reality is, with very little talent on the roster and a franchise QB contract coming off the books, the Giants are not as close to the top of the league in cap space as they probably should be, IMO.
Link - ( New Window )
Business terms in non legalese by the line executive and "contract" details by the staff guy.
I don't know which is which in the Giants organization but I don't know too many places where the deal maker is confused with the technocrat
That's a fair point, but I think either way it's not a point in favor of Abrams as Gettleman's successor. Either he's already a mediocre negotiator, or he'll be a neophyte in that role.
Given a roster riddled with holes and a QB on his rookie contract, not sure that's anything to go home bragging about. Especially with how FA has gone lately - they're going to feel a strong urge to overpay mediocre players, like the one they traded two picks for.
Or he lets the GM job spent Mara's money any old way.
Or or or.
Its not a job where one can show he can be a front line decision maker
Could the secretary handle something much more competently than the boss? Sure. I hope so. Did she hear the same things he did? Often yes and many times before he did.
Can she run the company? We have no idea.
and I think that they should have an idea ahead of time this next time around. They also should look at a track record of successful talent evaluation before giving that vital capability away just because some HC wants it.
Im ok with the Abrams is the Assistant GM role who keeps the office moving...but even perfect performance as an Assistant is far from the reason we select an actual GM.
imo
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In comment 14699520 Gatorade Dunk said:
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post on BBI and/or work in East Rutherford.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
The Giants are currently #8 in cap space for 2020, with more coming in the form of the regular annual raise and the shedding of Eli, et al. That's hardly middle-of-the-pack.
Where are you getting that they're #8? OTC has them at #12 in current cap room for 2020, and 13th in effective cap space (since they only have 36 players under contract for 2020).
The Giants currently have $63.8M in 2020 space, with the league median at $50.5M and the league average at $49.7M. They're not squarely on the middle, but they're a lot closer to that $50M midpoint than they are to the top (average of $95.9M cap room for the top 5 teams in terms of space).
I guess we can debate the semantics of "middle of the pack," but the reality is, with very little talent on the roster and a franchise QB contract coming off the books, the Giants are not as close to the top of the league in cap space as they probably should be, IMO. Link - ( New Window )
Clarification. The operative term here is 2020, bnot 2019. 247 Sports has them ranked 8th currently heading into 2020. Whether or not you agree with that isn't germane. Of course, if you want to do an exhaustive analysis, be my guest. I respect OTC, but they appear to be using different parameters.
As long as John Mara is the owner, he's going to think he knows what's best for the organization, and that means he is going to stay within the organization when hiring. It will forever just be about "doing it the Giants way" because this organization has had success in the past and they are constantly trying to just recreate that by hiring people connected to the org. But any of the great Giants teams in the past have had SOME semblance of forward/new thinking, even if they have stayed old-school in a lot of ways. As much as a lot of people maybe don't want to admit it, even Jerry Reese's methods were necessary (combined with Accorsi/Coughlin players and methods) in winning SBs in 2007 and 2011. We need SOME sort of youth and 21st century NFL philosophy to move this organization forward, or we'll continue to be left in the dust by the teams adapting year after year around us.
Look at any successful organization: they improvise, adapt, overcome. From the Pats, to the Ravens, to the Eagles. There is no ONE way of doing things that will forever work like magic. But when the Giants try to "adapt to the times" with their more player-friendly coaches in Shurmur and McAdoo, they just end up looking like imbeciles because they aren't actually smart nor have any talent.
What money is on the line? Their labor costs are fixed and they are awash in cash from the TV contracts, merchandise, PSLs, concessions, parking, etc.
And now the NFPLA looks like they are going to be stupid enough to expand the regular season to 17 games, which is basically a layoff to the 18th game. In other words, more money is on the way.
Mara's problem is he's myopic. He's surrounded by a bunch of yes-men who are constantly telling him what he wants to here - the "Giants Way" will work.
And this was never more evident than almost two years ago to the date he hired Ernie Accorsi to go out and find the best GM who will carry on the "Giants Way".
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In comment 14700047 BMac said:
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In comment 14699520 Gatorade Dunk said:
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post on BBI and/or work in East Rutherford.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
The Giants are currently #8 in cap space for 2020, with more coming in the form of the regular annual raise and the shedding of Eli, et al. That's hardly middle-of-the-pack.
Where are you getting that they're #8? OTC has them at #12 in current cap room for 2020, and 13th in effective cap space (since they only have 36 players under contract for 2020).
The Giants currently have $63.8M in 2020 space, with the league median at $50.5M and the league average at $49.7M. They're not squarely on the middle, but they're a lot closer to that $50M midpoint than they are to the top (average of $95.9M cap room for the top 5 teams in terms of space).
I guess we can debate the semantics of "middle of the pack," but the reality is, with very little talent on the roster and a franchise QB contract coming off the books, the Giants are not as close to the top of the league in cap space as they probably should be, IMO. Link - ( New Window )
Clarification. The operative term here is 2020, bnot 2019. 247 Sports has them ranked 8th currently heading into 2020. Whether or not you agree with that isn't germane. Of course, if you want to do an exhaustive analysis, be my guest. I respect OTC, but they appear to be using different parameters.
All the numbers I listed are for 2020, not 2019.
If you want to use 247 Sports as your source, be my guest, but I'll go ahead and bow out of the conversation and save my words for someone who uses reputable cap info sources (like OTC).
I don't have to agree or disagree with your point to know that 247 is the equivalent of using AOL as your ISP.
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In comment 14700047 BMac said:
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In comment 14699520 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
post on BBI and/or work in East Rutherford.
He's average at best and can typically avoid being too much of a liability. But when you have very little talent on your roster, your historic franchise QB coming off the books, and have just completed the biggest dead money purge in the league and you're still in the middle of the pack for cap room in a year when there is more cap space across the league than ever before, "very good" is a wildly homer view of how Abrams is doing.
The Giants are currently #8 in cap space for 2020, with more coming in the form of the regular annual raise and the shedding of Eli, et al. That's hardly middle-of-the-pack.
Where are you getting that they're #8? OTC has them at #12 in current cap room for 2020, and 13th in effective cap space (since they only have 36 players under contract for 2020).
The Giants currently have $63.8M in 2020 space, with the league median at $50.5M and the league average at $49.7M. They're not squarely on the middle, but they're a lot closer to that $50M midpoint than they are to the top (average of $95.9M cap room for the top 5 teams in terms of space).
I guess we can debate the semantics of "middle of the pack," but the reality is, with very little talent on the roster and a franchise QB contract coming off the books, the Giants are not as close to the top of the league in cap space as they probably should be, IMO. Link - ( New Window )
Clarification. The operative term here is 2020, bnot 2019. 247 Sports has them ranked 8th currently heading into 2020. Whether or not you agree with that isn't germane. Of course, if you want to do an exhaustive analysis, be my guest. I respect OTC, but they appear to be using different parameters.
Wait a second - is the article linked below your source data? You're using an article written in July and claiming that it's accurate? You do know that cap room is dynamic and that a lot has changed in the past five months, right? While we're throwing around operative terms, how about we focus on "currently"?
And you tried to claim that I was the one using outdated info?
Link - ( New Window )
Or he lets the GM job spent Mara's money any old way.
Or or or.
Its not a job where one can show he can be a front line decision maker
Could the secretary handle something much more competently than the boss? Sure. I hope so. Did she hear the same things he did? Often yes and many times before he did.
Can she run the company? We have no idea.
and I think that they should have an idea ahead of time this next time around. They also should look at a track record of successful talent evaluation before giving that vital capability away just because some HC wants it.
Im ok with the Abrams is the Assistant GM role who keeps the office moving...but even perfect performance as an Assistant is far from the reason we select an actual GM.
imo
How about if THE SECRETARY is a Man?