Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Exceptional piece on the opioid crisis

Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 11:07 am
This comes from the New York Times. It's a survey of the class of 2000 at an Ohio high school, detailing the myriad ways in which addiction has touched the 110 graduates. That HS and that graduating class could be any of a thousand across the country.
Link - ( New Window )
Great  
AcidTest : 12/2/2019 11:34 am : link
article. It is undoubtedly a frightening microcosmic example of what is happening throughout the country.
I grew up in North Jersey  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 11:42 am : link
graduated in '99. Just over 200 in my graduating class. As I understand it, two have died of ODs and a handful more have been in and out of trouble with the law. My neighbor, who graduated the following year, also died of an OD. I know it hit Appalachia and Northern New England particularly hard, but it has hit everyone.
In 2014 I had surgery for a disc herniation  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 11:56 am : link
The pain caused by the herniation was incredible, but the surgery was like a miracle...completely the pressure on the nerve and the pain was gone.

I was prescribed 50 Percocets and 50 Valium. I took one of the Valiums the first day home, as I was told that I'd want to get ahead of any post-surgery pain. It made me a complete space cadet...I would have handed over the deed to my house had anyone asked me. So I tossed the rest of the pills...I didn't even touch the Percocet. It turned out the post-op pain was pretty minor - nothing an Advil couldn't handle.

Afterwards, in reflection, I was surprised by the amount of medication that had been prescribed to me for a relatively small amount of pain. But what really shocked me was the number of people that chastised me for tossing the pills. "Why did you do that? I would have taken them!"...I must have heard it from ten separate people. And I'm not talking about obvious addicts...I'm talking about square, successful people with kids, careers, the whole nine yards.

It was really eye opening.
*completely relieved the pressure  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 11:57 am : link
.
Scary.  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 11:57 am : link
One of my biggest fears as a parent.
GT  
UConn4523 : 12/2/2019 12:02 pm : link
micro discectomy or fusion?
I know a cop who I went to High School with  
UConn4523 : 12/2/2019 12:06 pm : link
he was hurt on the job, busted his shoulder when breaking up a fight. He went on pain killers then got addicted. He eventually got fired for a few reasons, one of which was still being on them when on duty.

Scary shit.

I had a few surgeries over the years - Wisdom Teeth, 2 Hernias, and most recently smashed my finger int he car door which i got 2 Oxys for. I took them for my hernias but didn't like how I felt (also on an empty stomach since I felt bloated from the surgery) so I haven't taken one in years up until last month when I smashed my finger. I can't lie, it felt great those 2 nights sleeping but I know why I was only given 2, haha.

Generally I won't touch anything that's not over the counter though, just not worth it. Only had to this time because I couldn't sleep, the pain in my finger was too much for Advil to take care of.
RE: GT  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14699651 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
micro discectomy or fusion?


Micro discectomy, L5S1. Small potatoes when it comes to back surgeries, but man was it a life saver.
For some folks it's the injury...  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 12:12 pm : link
for others, especially kids, it's just the same recreational drug use that's been going on for 50+ years, just with substances that is incredibly addictive and very lethal. When I speak about this professionally, I often say that the difference between this and marijuana, cocaine, and even meth is that opioids (particularly when it progresses to heroin) do not give you the chance to grow out of it.
RE: Scary.  
BamaBlue : 12/2/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14699646 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
One of my biggest fears as a parent.


Yes. Unlike many fears, THIS IS A LEGITIMATE FEAR. The availability of drugs and the culture that accepts this behavior is out of control. MUCH worse than when I was a kid growing up in the late 70's. My Son's graduating class of 900 kids had a memorial for 10 of the kids (that they know of) who died of overdoses since graduating in 2009.

What does a parent do...? I don't know the answer, but you have to balance being very active in knowing what your kids are doing and keeping your distance to give them room to grow. Every family's balance is different.
RE: RE: Scary.  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14699664 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14699646 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


One of my biggest fears as a parent.



Yes. Unlike many fears, THIS IS A LEGITIMATE FEAR. The availability of drugs and the culture that accepts this behavior is out of control. MUCH worse than when I was a kid growing up in the late 70's. My Son's graduating class of 900 kids had a memorial for 10 of the kids (that they know of) who died of overdoses since graduating in 2009.

What does a parent do...? I don't know the answer, but you have to balance being very active in knowing what your kids are doing and keeping your distance to give them room to grow. Every family's balance is different.


I honestly think, as of right now (kids are 8 and 5), I'm actually going to do my best to educate them by telling them what to try, why, and what not to try. It's a bit unconventional from the overall say no to drugs, period, but I'm going to tell them I'd rather they smoke weed or something more benign like that than pills. And the hows, whats, and whys.

That way it's kind of saying, hey if you must try something, try this. I'm not condoning it, but if you must....
My opiate introduction  
pjcas18 : 12/2/2019 12:25 pm : link
was sophomore year in high school. I had my wisdom teeth removed. they gave me 26 (?) vicodin. I took one and felt high. I liked it.

I didn't need any for the pain, so my friends and I took the rest recreationally with alcohol over the next couple weeks.

we didn't seek them out like some of the kids in the article but if we had them we'd take them.

Junior year in college I sliced a tendon in my hand, had stitches and plastic surgery, they gave me 100 percocets.

my friends and roomates and I took them all over a weekend.

I will say the medical protocols now vs then late 80's/early 90's (or even now vs as recently as 2014) have changed massively.

Doctors are limited with how many they can prescribe, they are required to re-examine patients who need more than the initial prescription and they prescribe lower potency and dosage of opiates. It's got to be really hard to find a pill mill these days, which is probably why synthetics like fentanyl are popular - or heroin.

I mentioned my wisdom teeth above, my daughter had hers out this past fall and she was prescribed 8 tylenol with codeine.

she took none.

It's a massive problem, but one I feel like the current administration understands and is taking positive steps to address. Never had much faith in government to get something right but I think they're on the right track here.
Don't worry  
gmenatlarge : 12/2/2019 12:57 pm : link
Chris Christie is working on it! Maybe he could look in NJ where he was gov at the opioid manufacturers! never happen...
RE: Don't worry  
GMAN4LIFE : 12/2/2019 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14699758 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
Chris Christie is working on it! Maybe he could look in NJ where he was gov at the opioid manufacturers! never happen...


he isn't gov anymore but maybe Murphy can do it.
RE: Don't worry  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14699758 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
Chris Christie is working on it! Maybe he could look in NJ where he was gov at the opioid manufacturers! never happen...


We managed to avoid making it a political bitch session so far, perhaps you could continue in that direction.
I'm a doctor  
penkap75 : 12/2/2019 1:12 pm : link
I remember in med school in 2000, they were teaching us how the opioids, which is essentially morphine/heroine is not addictive in patients with pain. Even back then I was like WTF? Big Pharmacy must of really paid off our attendings/professors to make them teach nonsense like that.

Its a good thing I went into a specialty where I don't need to prescribe opioids.
i'm laughing at 100 percocets  
UConn4523 : 12/2/2019 1:14 pm : link
for pjcas for his hand. Not saying it didn't hurt but man that's a lot of drugs, haha.
RE: I'm a doctor  
Sec 103 : 12/2/2019 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14699781 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I remember in med school in 2000, they were teaching us how the opioids, which is essentially morphine/heroine is not addictive in patients with pain. Even back then I was like WTF? Big Pharmacy must of really paid off our attendings/professors to make them teach nonsense like that.

Its a good thing I went into a specialty where I don't need to prescribe opioids.


Big pharma's target is to hook us all if possible... Biggest dope dealers in existence
RE: RE: GT  
UConn4523 : 12/2/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14699660 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14699651 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


micro discectomy or fusion?



Micro discectomy, L5S1. Small potatoes when it comes to back surgeries, but man was it a life saver.


Got it. My L5/S1 is herniated (along with L4/L5) and the first year sucked hard but I got back on my feet without surgery. Hoping to keep that going for as long as possible but I'm guessing I will have surgery for it one day.

My father's good friend at work (electrician) was on pain killers for year until he tried CDB - basically cut his opioid consumption by 90% since adding CBD to his daily routine.
The Sacklers made an obscene amount of money...  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 1:20 pm : link
that they will largely keep, even as Purdue Pharma closes its doors. The drug reps who pushed it also made a great deal of money that they will also keep. The great majority of pharmacists and pain docs who acted unethically will also keep the money they made, though a few have been fined and even jailed.
I had a close family member  
aimrocky : 12/2/2019 1:28 pm : link
OD this year on heroin. His wife told us that his addiction to opiods started when he injured his elbow tendon in college playing baseball. She wouldn't go into detail, but it sounds like meds filled the addiction until money became an issue, which led into heroin. He left behind two kids under the age of 5. Horrible...
Counterpoint  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 1:29 pm : link
There are a lot of people with severe, chronic pain who now get treated like junkies and don't get adequate treatment any longer because of hysteria about painkillers. It's not these people's fault that other people have made awful choices for themselves and gotten addicted to things they shouldn't have had in the first place (most addicts do NOT get hooked by legitimately prescribed painkillers, but rather by pills they've obtained illictly). I feel no desire to go into details but people I know well have told me first hand how debilitating chronic pain can be and how infuriating it is for someone suffering from it to be told "Just take some Advil".
RE: i'm laughing at 100 percocets  
pjcas18 : 12/2/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14699783 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
for pjcas for his hand. Not saying it didn't hurt but man that's a lot of drugs, haha.


it hurt for a day or two, afterwards the pain was tylenol level.

the rest we took recreationally.

over prescribing was probably responsible for a percentage of how this situation got started, but also a lot of it is personal responsibility. People like to get high. the accessibility of the opiates made it easier, but everyone is not a victim, some people, probably the majority, were self inflicted. IMO.

RE: My opiate introduction  
Platos : 12/2/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14699689 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

I didn't need any for the pain, so my friends and I took the rest recreationally with alcohol over the next couple weeks.

Junior year in college I sliced a tendon in my hand, had stitches and plastic surgery, they gave me 100 percocets.

my friends and roomates and I took them all over a weekend.



you're a great fuckin friend!

not to poke fun at those who are addicted but i'm one of those people who just LOVE how percs make you feel.

its an ugly thing to get hooked on though. your tolerance for them shoots through the roof after a few days and you need more and more to get back to the original high.

knew someone who would do 10-12 30MG oxy's a DAY. thats like $300 street value every singly day just to feel "normal". really sad.

100% this is on big pharma and some scummy doctors. i'm sure we got heroin for the cheap ever since going to afghanistan... have to push it on somebody right? unbelievable
UConn  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 1:39 pm : link
Sorry to hear. My understanding is that no two cases are the same, and the symptoms can vary pretty widely. In my case, the big symptom was crushing pain down my right leg...like my tibia and fibula had been cracked in half and the halves were grinding together. I had a kidney stone a couple years ago, and that was a joke by comparison.

I was pretty worried going into the surgery about what life would look like after...definitely heard some horror stories. One that I remember is Steve Kerr, of all people...he's had a rough time since his surgery. I'm thankful that mine went well and I've been able to move on with my life with no pain. I imagine the surgeon who operated on me makes a boatload of money, but whatever he makes they should triple it.

Good luck with your back.
RE: Counterpoint  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14699804 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
There are a lot of people with severe, chronic pain who now get treated like junkies and don't get adequate treatment any longer because of hysteria about painkillers. It's not these people's fault that other people have made awful choices for themselves and gotten addicted to things they shouldn't have had in the first place (most addicts do NOT get hooked by legitimately prescribed painkillers, but rather by pills they've obtained illictly). I feel no desire to go into details but people I know well have told me first hand how debilitating chronic pain can be and how infuriating it is for someone suffering from it to be told "Just take some Advil".


I don't doubt that this happens and I am married to a chronic pain sufferer, but you're talking about an opioid crisis that is killing tens of thousands of people each year. The number of people for whom long-term opioid abuse is beneficial and for whom the side effects are not crippling is not as large as you might suppose.
RE: RE: My opiate introduction  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14699815 Platos said:
Quote:
In comment 14699689 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



I didn't need any for the pain, so my friends and I took the rest recreationally with alcohol over the next couple weeks.

Junior year in college I sliced a tendon in my hand, had stitches and plastic surgery, they gave me 100 percocets.

my friends and roomates and I took them all over a weekend.





you're a great fuckin friend!

not to poke fun at those who are addicted but i'm one of those people who just LOVE how percs make you feel.

its an ugly thing to get hooked on though. your tolerance for them shoots through the roof after a few days and you need more and more to get back to the original high.

knew someone who would do 10-12 30MG oxy's a DAY. thats like $300 street value every singly day just to feel "normal". really sad.

100% this is on big pharma and some scummy doctors. i'm sure we got heroin for the cheap ever since going to afghanistan... have to push it on somebody right? unbelievable


The heroin market has absolutely nothing to do with Afghanistan except to the extent that it is fungible. The bulk of our heroin is coming from Mexico and further south, while Afghan heroin goes largely to Iran, Russia, and on to Europe.
RE: The Sacklers made an obscene amount of money...  
HomerJones45 : 12/2/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14699789 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
that they will largely keep, even as Purdue Pharma closes its doors. The drug reps who pushed it also made a great deal of money that they will also keep. The great majority of pharmacists and pain docs who acted unethically will also keep the money they made, though a few have been fined and even jailed.
Please take what comes out of these state attorneys general with a grain of salt. They are all political actors, and gee it would be nice to bring in some free money to their states' budget. Take their allegations and creative legal theories accordingly.

To Greg's point, they would all like you to forget the government's role in pain medication, the studies indicating doctors were too strict in providing pain medication and relieving patients' pain and the pols complaining about it. All that is forgotten now as the doctors have gone back to "take a couple of aspirin."
I'm assuming you meant 'use' not 'abuse' in that last sentence  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 1:54 pm : link
Regardless of how large or small that segment of the population may be, why should any of them suffer for the poor judgment of others? Particularly when, again, the vast majority of addicts do NOT get initially hooked on their own legitimately prescribed painkillers.
I used to enjoy  
pjcas18 : 12/2/2019 1:56 pm : link
how opiates made me feel, then I grew up got a real job, got married, had children and responsibilities so I just viewed it like some other areas of life and I matured, adapted, and my priorities changed, plus the constipation was awful to deal with and eventually outweighed the euphoria.

Trainspotting was a poignant movie to me and one where fiction connected to reality and served as a warning.

I guess I'm fortunate in that my recreational usage never grew beyond opportunistic consumption into something more. Not sure why, but my friends and I never sought out opiates in any other way than if I or a friend had a prescription.

Some of the stories in the article about pooling pills together sounds a lot like my group of friends in the mid-90's.

Only unlike the article none of us went beyond that. People from my town died or became addicts, but no one from my group of extended friends, and no one that surprised us. IOW no soccer moms who broke their leg or student athletes who tore their ACL. the "victims" from my New England town were people who were already on that path (booze, weed, coke, etc.) before graduating to opiates or heroin.

Also, I think if I were that age again, adderall > opiates
RE: I'm assuming you meant 'use' not 'abuse' in that last sentence  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14699852 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of how large or small that segment of the population may be, why should any of them suffer for the poor judgment of others? Particularly when, again, the vast majority of addicts do NOT get initially hooked on their own legitimately prescribed painkillers.


It's very difficult to say what percentage of opioid addicts come to the addiction by taking opioids legally and as-prescribed. But even if every opioid user came to the addiction through recreational drug use, the notion that "(s)he's a junkie, therefore his/her life should not factor in the calculation" seems callous. And among non-terminal chronic pain sufferers, long-term opioid use is not a panacea either; significant side effects are the rule rather than the exception.
RE: I used to enjoy  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14699862 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
IOW no soccer moms who broke their leg or student athletes who tore their ACL. the "victims" from my New England town were people who were already on that path (booze, weed, coke, etc.) before graduating to opiates or heroin.


Which is entirely the norm, as few patients prescribed for a legitimate condition become addicted:

Quote:
But even in studies of patients who take pain medication repeatedly and regularly, sometimes for months or years, the addiction rates are generally modest. As Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and A. Thomas McLellan, a former deputy director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, noted in a 2016 New England Journal of Medicine article, "Addiction occurs in only a small percentage of persons who are exposed to opioids—even among those with preexisting vulnerabilities."

A 2010 analysis in the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews found that less than 1 percent of patients taking opioids for chronic pain experienced addiction. A 2012 review in the journal Addiction likewise concluded that "opioid analgesics for chronic pain conditions are not associated with a major risk for developing dependence."

A study reported in The BMJ this year tracked 568,612 opioid-naive patients who took prescription pain medication following surgery and found that 5,906, or 1 percent, showed signs of "opioid misuse" during the course of the study, which included data from 2008 through 2016. Although some studies have described "rates of misuse, abuse, and addiction-related aberrant behaviors" as high as 26 percent among chronic pain patients, Volkow and McLellan reported, "rates of carefully diagnosed addiction" average less than 8 percent.

Link - ( New Window )
It's not callous because prescription painkillers are not what are  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:12 pm : link
killing addicts, not by themselves. According to the CDC, mixing opioids with other drugs such as alcohol, cocaine, or benzodiazepine is what's killing more than half of them. Heroin, particularly heroin spiked with fentanyl, is killing most of the rest of them.
RE: My opiate introduction  
Earl the goat : 12/2/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14699689 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
was sophomore year in high school. I had my wisdom teeth removed. they gave me 26 (?) vicodin. I took one and felt high. I liked it.

I didn't need any for the pain, so my friends and I took the rest recreationally with alcohol over the next couple weeks.

we didn't seek them out like some of the kids in the article but if we had them we'd take them.

Junior year in college I sliced a tendon in my hand, had stitches and plastic surgery, they gave me 100 percocets.

my friends and roomates and I took them all over a weekend.

I will say the medical protocols now vs then late 80's/early 90's (or even now vs as recently as 2014) have changed massively.

Doctors are limited with how many they can prescribe, they are required to re-examine patients who need more than the initial prescription and they prescribe lower potency and dosage of opiates. It's got to be really hard to find a pill mill these days, which is probably why synthetics like fentanyl are popular - or heroin.

I mentioned my wisdom teeth above, my daughter had hers out this past fall and she was prescribed 8 tylenol with codeine.

she took none.

It's a massive problem, but one I feel like the current administration understands and is taking positive steps to address. Never had much faith in government to get something right but I think they're on the right track here.


We are also required to go on a website to check patients history
forgot to add....  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:14 pm : link
Prescriptions have trended down since 2011 yet opioid related death rates have continued to rise.
Because tightening up prescriptions...  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 2:18 pm : link
has diverted existing users to heroin. I get the sentiment and I frequently take something approximating your "side" of this in discussions with others (arguing that most people who come to an opioid addiction do so through recreational drug use but that the desire to help them should not hinge on whether we find them sympathetic), but the history of Oxy and the rise of opioid addiction and overdose deaths has been told repeatedly and in book-length form, with copious citations.
I understand why people writing those books drew those conclusions  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:24 pm : link
But I'd say that the data post-2011 has not buttressed their conclusions at all.
I'll also make my standard case here  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:26 pm : link
Criminalizing drug abuse does not, in fact, help addicts. If anything, it makes it that much less likely that they can successfully seek treatment.
I've had some injuries and minor surgeries  
Bubba : 12/2/2019 2:32 pm : link
over the years and was prescribed but refused meds. The only time (twice in the past 7 years) I used dilaudid and only while in the hospital for kidney stones. It is very easy to see how someone can get addicted. No lie it felt great. I was almost disappointed when the stones passed. The quantity and availability of these drugs is crazy. No doubt they serve a purpose and when used responsibly are a benefit. Not sure what the answer is but I feel they need to be regulated better.
Horrible, a lot of families/friends have been negatively impacted.  
GiantsUA : 12/2/2019 2:36 pm : link
A lot of people got paid and ownership/share holders made a lot of $.

I believe many student athletes who were injured developed problems.


RE: I'll also make my standard case here  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14699925 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Criminalizing drug abuse does not, in fact, help addicts. If anything, it makes it that much less likely that they can successfully seek treatment.


I don't know that criminalizing possession has a huge net positive impact on drug use. But near-decriminalization (in certain states) certainly hasn't had a positive impact on drug use either. And since drug-seeking behavior (largely theft) and the violence associated with drug dealing are and will remain criminal, figuring out how to shoehorn treatment into the criminal justice context is a riddle that needs to be answered sooner or later.
No one has mentioned  
wonderback : 12/2/2019 3:32 pm : link
the affect on family and friends. I don't know how many of you have been connected in some way to someone who's dealing with opiate addiction. It turns them into lying monsters. You wouldn't recognize them for the decisions that they make - incredibly selfish and self-serving. It's almost like it destroys their souls. It kills the people around them in ways that are very difficult to discern. The deaths, the statistics are crushing but the people lift behind have got to be in the ten of millions. Their lives will never be the same. Surely the scurge of our time. And, not to be political, grossly under-reported while we spend countless hours on bullshit political witch trials.
RE: No one has mentioned  
Dunedin81 : 12/2/2019 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14700021 wonderback said:
Quote:
the affect on family and friends. I don't know how many of you have been connected in some way to someone who's dealing with opiate addiction. It turns them into lying monsters. You wouldn't recognize them for the decisions that they make - incredibly selfish and self-serving. It's almost like it destroys their souls. It kills the people around them in ways that are very difficult to discern. The deaths, the statistics are crushing but the people lift behind have got to be in the ten of millions. Their lives will never be the same. Surely the scurge of our time. And, not to be political, grossly under-reported while we spend countless hours on bullshit political witch trials.


And the impact on young children, both those born addicted to opioids and those dealing with parents who are addicted. Foster care placements in some places are up five and six-fold.
RE: RE: No one has mentioned  
wonderback : 12/2/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14700051 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 14700021 wonderback said:


Quote:


the affect on family and friends. I don't know how many of you have been connected in some way to someone who's dealing with opiate addiction. It turns them into lying monsters. You wouldn't recognize them for the decisions that they make - incredibly selfish and self-serving. It's almost like it destroys their souls. It kills the people around them in ways that are very difficult to discern. The deaths, the statistics are crushing but the people lift behind have got to be in the ten of millions. Their lives will never be the same. Surely the scurge of our time. And, not to be political, grossly under-reported while we spend countless hours on bullshit political witch trials.



And the impact on young children, both those born addicted to opioids and those dealing with parents who are addicted. Foster care placements in some places are up five and six-fold.


Left that out, you're right 1000%.
2007 grad here  
BigBluesman : 12/2/2019 5:54 pm : link
and I've seen similar shockwaves of addiction in my class and those close to mine. Some of those who have passed were jock types and straight A students. There are no bounds as to who this shit can get a hold of. All it takes is one sports injury, really.
Dirty little secret in the medical community ?  
Ron from Ninerland : 12/2/2019 6:19 pm : link
I've always suspected that the reason oxycodone/percoset and Vicodin/hydrocodone have been prescribed so liberally is that they are actually less dangerous than acetominophen/tylenol. An over the counter Extra strength Tylenol tablet is 500mg, but 3000mg in 24 hrs is a maximum safe dose and as little as 6000mg can fatally damage the liver. If its mixed with alcohol or other liver poisoning meds, it worse.

Although herion and Fentanyl are deadly, prescription Oxy and Vicodin really aren't that dangerous. In fact the acytominophen in a Norco or Percoset is more poisonous than the opiate.
Vicodin  
pjcas18 : 12/2/2019 6:58 pm : link
OxyContin and Percocet contain acetaminophen (the dangerous ingredient in Tylenol).

The pills have a number: 5/325 Percocet for example. the 5mg is the amount of narcotic (oxycodone) and 325mg the amount of acetaminophen. Someone taking two 5mg percocets (a pretty commonly prescribed dose every 4 - 6 hours) gets 650 mg of acetaminophen each time which is more than an extra strength tylenol regimen I think.

Just saying, unless you take an opioid that doesn't have acetaminophen you are not reducing the risk of liver toxicity and most of the commonly prescribed ones have acetaminophen.

(in my amateur opinion).




Back to the Corner