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Gettleman Recap of 2018 Season and now

BeckShepEli : 12/2/2019 1:34 pm
I just watched DGís recap of the 2018 season and I understand this guy isnít going to sit up there and say we suck. But he really thinks this team made progress in 2018 and that 2019 was going to be a better year. This guy loves to toot his own horn. Nothing can be done or said today to save DG or PS job. DG caused this mess and PS couldnít coach a high school team.

We need fresh minds in this org and build it up.
DG 2018 Recap - ( New Window )
We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 1:39 pm : link
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.

Tons of people thought that the team made progress.  
an_idol_mind : 12/2/2019 1:40 pm : link
Check the archives here and see the outrage when pundits picked the Giants to finish poorly in 2019.

The common view of this team was that they weren't going to hit the playoffs but they were heading in the right direction. Nobody thought they would struggle to get more than two wins all season.
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


Many of us saw through the facade.
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
BeckShepEli : 12/2/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


I get it I thought we were going to have a decent year(7 or 8 wins) but 2019 Giants just prove why PS and DG canít return next year. We wonít win under them.
OBJ  
djstat : 12/2/2019 1:45 pm : link
Had a strong few games in the second half of '18. Particularly a 3 TD performance against San Fransisco. Eli played decent in the second half. Barkley played great.

Shurmer is an OC. Nothing more.
RE: OBJ  
JohnnyFlowers : 12/2/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14699832 djstat said:
Quote:
Had a strong few games in the second half of '18. Particularly a 3 TD performance against San Fransisco. Eli played decent in the second half. Barkley played great.

Shurmer is an OC. Nothing more.


Strong second half missing the last 4 games of that season...I don't think so...
RE: OBJ  
JohnnyFlowers : 12/2/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14699832 djstat said:
Quote:
Had a strong few games in the second half of '18. Particularly a 3 TD performance against San Fransisco. Eli played decent in the second half. Barkley played great.

Shurmer is an OC. Nothing more.


Strong second half missing the last 4 games of that season...I don't think so...
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


So was Shurmur an okay coach last year then?
This Team  
lax counsel : 12/2/2019 2:03 pm : link
Nearly position-by-position is worse talent wise than in 2017. That is a major indictment on the front office and coaching staff. Anyone who took comfort in beating the 49ers 3rd string qb and the redskins 4th string qb were buying the fools gold sold by DG and co.

This team basically requires an entire Oline, impact players on the Dline, CBs who can cover, WRs who scare a defense, and Lbs. Many of those are the same needs as the end of the 2017 season. We won't really know what the qb is until the end of next season, so we can't say for certain whether that position has even been filled. Other than filling the running back position, not really sure what DG has done to inspire confidence that he can fix this mess.
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Mike from Ohio : 12/2/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


So he drafted a QB with a top 6 pick and brought in two new starters on the oline because the offense was humming along as hoped?

He was wrong about this team and he needs to be accountable for that.
RE: RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14699870 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.




So was Shurmur an okay coach last year then?


I thought so. I was definitely more than willing to see how he was going to improve on that in year two. He fell flat on his face.

Do you see me advocating keeping Shurmer at all?
4-4 second half was a huge talking point  
Sean : 12/2/2019 2:09 pm : link
.
Let's put all that into a little perspective.....  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:12 pm : link
The Giants, for two years under Ben McAdoo, struggled to break 20 points. They went a team record 8 games in a row without breaking the 20 point mark.

Under Shurmur, in his first year, they broke 20 points 10 times, 30 points 6 times, and 40 points once.

In the last 8 games, they broke 30 points 40 times, and 20 points 7 times.

Barkley was the third rookie in history to break 2000 yards from scrimmage, and had 15 TD's.

Again, there were reasons to believe this team was improving.
typo  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:14 pm : link
Quote:
In the last 8 games, they broke 30 points 40 4 times, and 20 points 7 times.
RE: RE: RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14699878 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14699870 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.




So was Shurmur an okay coach last year then?



I thought so. I was definitely more than willing to see how he was going to improve on that in year two. He fell flat on his face.

Do you see me advocating keeping Shurmer at all?


Just trying to reconcile whats the difference if everything was so good 2H2018. We tried Eli in 2019 and that failed. We changed QBs and thats not lighting it up. Barkley was out/hurt but then again so was OBJ last year.

Maybe everything wasn't so good in 2H2018...
Name any GM thats says they are going to suck next year  
Rudy5757 : 12/2/2019 2:15 pm : link
This is a business where they sell tickets. You have to spin it the best you can. No one really knows what is said behind closed doors.

maybe DG said to the owners we are going to suck but we'll play the young guys and 2020 when we have FA money and another high draft pick we will compete for a Superbowl very much like Elis 2nd year in the league.

You are never going to hear the truth.
RE: Let's put all that into a little perspective.....  
Sean : 12/2/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14699893 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
The Giants, for two years under Ben McAdoo, struggled to break 20 points. They went a team record 8 games in a row without breaking the 20 point mark.

Under Shurmur, in his first year, they broke 20 points 10 times, 30 points 6 times, and 40 points once.

In the last 8 games, they broke 30 points 40 times, and 20 points 7 times.

Barkley was the third rookie in history to break 2000 yards from scrimmage, and had 15 TD's.

Again, there were reasons to believe this team was improving.


Yet, they took Daniel Jones #6 & passed on an impact defensive player. This is where the ďno planĒ talk comes into play.

If you thought the team was truly on the upswing, why draft Jones & bail on Eli week 3? We were paying Eli anyway.

How do you defend this?
'Nothing can be done or said today to save DG or PS'...  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 2:18 pm : link
You're going to be disappointed when DG is retained despite your self narrative. he'll be given another whack at a head coaching hire...as he should be. That's been the biggest problem with his regime to date.
.  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 2:20 pm : link
"What we're trying to here is build sustained success, and that takes some brutal honesty and tough decisions."

Here's some brutal honesty:

- Saquon Barkley has 3 TDs and less than 900 total yards on the season with 4 games left to play
- The quality of quarterback play has actually dropped after Eli was pulled for Daniel Jones
- The 2018 draft class is flopping
- The offensive line is a complete disaster from tackle to tackle
- DeAndre Baker has played his way into the doghouse and there are plays where his effort is pathetic
- This is the worst roster the Giants have had since the Jimmy Carter administration

7-21.
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Thegratefulhead : 12/2/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.
There were legit reasons to question the competition and QBs we faced. Yes, QBs don't play defense. It is much easier to play offense with a lead and good field position. Opposing QBs have strong impact on that. Go back and look at the QBs we faced.
RE: .  
lax counsel : 12/2/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14699913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
"What we're trying to here is build sustained success, and that takes some brutal honesty and tough decisions."

Here's some brutal honesty:

- Saquon Barkley has 3 TDs and less than 900 total yards on the season with 4 games left to play
- The quality of quarterback play has actually dropped after Eli was pulled for Daniel Jones
- The 2018 draft class is flopping
- The offensive line is a complete disaster from tackle to tackle
- DeAndre Baker has played his way into the doghouse and there are plays where his effort is pathetic
- This is the worst roster the Giants have had since the Jimmy Carter administration

7-21.


Well said. The state of the Franchise is poor at best. There are some glimmers of hope with Jones, but you can also see his flaws.

It is entirely possible this thing gets blown up again in 2021.
To get worse than last year is quite an achievement knowing  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 2:23 pm : link
we basically added 6 first round picks onto the team, and lost only one.

Added:
Jones
Lawrence
Baker
Peppers
Zeitler
Williams

Lost:
OBJ

Losing is a disease...
This year was going to go 2 ways  
George from PA : 12/2/2019 2:26 pm : link
Win with Eli....(a foolish pipe dream now as defense was/is...not ready to compete and OL somehow has not improved and might have regressed.)

Or

Struggle with Daniel....(one would think Daniel play which is mostly encouraging .....would produce more wins, but (see defense not ready to compete) lousy coaching....and individual vreak downs.....you name it....they have experience it.


Just reading this thread..  
Sean : 12/2/2019 2:29 pm : link
reinforces how badly the Giants have handled the Eli/Jones decision. Gettleman sold us on progress, Shurmur sold us on progress.

They KEPT Eli & drafted Jones at 6. Terps & Francesa were 100% on their take on this. It made no sense.

Gettleman/Shurmur preached progress then passed on drafting BPA at 6 & bailed on him week 3.

Someone tell me the plan?
The plan always involved finding Eli's successor....  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:34 pm : link
whether that was going to be in 2018 or last year. It was not shied away from by Gettleman, but rather about finding the right prospect.

The hope was that he could sit for a year because the team would have continued to build on what came before in 2018 and might have made enough of a leap to compete.

It didn't, it was clear that Eli was ineffective with what was around him, and they made the move.
RE: The plan always involved finding Eli's successor....  
Sean : 12/2/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14699937 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
whether that was going to be in 2018 or last year. It was not shied away from by Gettleman, but rather about finding the right prospect.

The hope was that he could sit for a year because the team would have continued to build on what came before in 2018 and might have made enough of a leap to compete.

It didn't, it was clear that Eli was ineffective with what was around him, and they made the move.


We canít score 20 points with the offense as is now. Eli moved the ball very well at Dallas. DG/PS kept harping on the end of last season, but that was all BS.
This thread isn't about now.  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:42 pm : link
I think we all know what's happening now and it's not good.

This thread is about how dare Dave Gettleman tell us the team was improving after last season.

I posted why he would think it was improving and say that.

Of course, once again, hindsight is 20/20.
Here's the Giants' production at QB this year  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 2:48 pm : link
- 244 passing yards/game
- 22 TDs
- 24 turnovers
- 19.2 PPG
- 2 wins & 10 losses

For this, and I swear I'm not making this up, the Giants have paid $28M in cap space and the 6th pick overall in the 2019 draft.
RE: Just reading this thread..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/2/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14699928 Sean said:
Quote:
reinforces how badly the Giants have handled the Eli/Jones decision. Gettleman sold us on progress, Shurmur sold us on progress.

They KEPT Eli & drafted Jones at 6. Terps & Francesa were 100% on their take on this. It made no sense.

Gettleman/Shurmur preached progress then passed on drafting BPA at 6 & bailed on him week 3.

Someone tell me the plan?


That entire scenario never made sense. If you keep Eli, draft Josh Allen and go for it. Draft Jones, cut Eli, use the cap space towards a better team. They went halfway and you see the result. DG was an idiot for touting progress but I smell Mara's influence here with regards to Eli.
That's not a fair assessment....  
Britt in VA : 12/2/2019 2:50 pm : link
as soon as Eli was sat down it was about developing Jones.

Cutting Eli or not cutting Eli has been beaten to death, not going to rehash that.
He will likely blame indoctrinating a rookie QB, Saquon and Connellyís  
Jim in Hoboken : 12/2/2019 2:50 pm : link
injuries for this disaster. Just have to hope that Mara wonít buy it.
Britt  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 2:51 pm : link
Quote:
Of course, once again, hindsight is 20/20.


You're not serious with that, are you? There were a bunch of us (not just me...far from it) saying how stupid this approach would be this time last year.

This isn't something that just "happened" to the Giants. They brought it on themselves.
DG also said you can win and build at the same time  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/2/2019 2:54 pm : link
which is really indicative of how out of touch he was with this team and coaching staff.

Look did I think they would win with Eli? No. But if he's there, then you have to give him a chance at winning. Drafting Barkley goes along those lines. But to then draft Jones at 6? It never made sense.
RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
rsjem1979 : 12/2/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


It's his job to look beyond hollow victories and fool's gold statistics.

More importantly, it's his job to be right. Even if last year's 2nd half wasn't a complete mirage, it's the GM's job to do a proper evaluation.

He failed.
RE: Britt  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14699964 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There were a bunch of us (not just me...far from it) saying how stupid this approach would be this time last year.


I said all offseason that the second Cowboys game was meaningless to them and really proved nothing as far as the Giants were concerned, and there were an awful lot of people who strenuously disagreed.
RE: 'Nothing can be done or said today to save DG or PS'...  
BeckShepEli : 12/2/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14699908 Torrag said:
Quote:
You're going to be disappointed when DG is retained despite your self narrative. he'll be given another whack at a head coaching hire...as he should be. That's been the biggest problem with his regime to date.


I know DG is returning. I also believe Shurmur will be brought back because the moron Mara game him a 5 year contract and will want continuity. But my opinion is both need to go December 30. Opinion and reality are two different things.
I have a huge issue  
BeckShepEli : 12/2/2019 3:05 pm : link
With DG talking up 2018 and promoting 2019 will be more successful. Forget the $$ part. Besides 2016 we havenít really won in 7 years. This organization is afraid of changes. Itís afraid to bring some young buck in and run the org. It needs a full tear down and for once I think 85% of BBI agree with that.

Unfortunately I think December 2,2020 we will be having these same conversations of firing Dave and Pat and start all over.
RE: Britt  
lax counsel : 12/2/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14699964 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


Of course, once again, hindsight is 20/20.



You're not serious with that, are you? There were a bunch of us (not just me...far from it) saying how stupid this approach would be this time last year.

This isn't something that just "happened" to the Giants. They brought it on themselves.


And we all got blasted for it by the usuals. There is no progress being made, I fear for Jones because I think he may be a casualty of the instability within the organization when I think he has potential to be a top 10 qb.

The organization is the doormat of the league.
I mean, a lobotomized monkey can make the moves Gettleman has  
Jim in Hoboken : 12/2/2019 3:22 pm : link
made. This coach is hopeless, but the GM hasn't been any better. He'd make one move and only to change his opinion on the same player a short 6 months later. Can you say there is zero possibility he won't come to the realization that Leonard Williams isn't an impact player and elect not to resign him?

For years we've done the one change at a time approach until the Eli debacle, and now we are going down the same path again. The proof is on the field, both the GM and coach need to go.
RE: RE: We scored a lot of points in the 2nd half of 2018.....  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14699916 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14699822 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


We went from averaging 18 points per game in the first 8 games to 27 points per game in the last 8.

Saquon was exploding and was offensive rookie of the year.

It's not hard to see why he thought there was improvement.


There were legit reasons to question the competition and QBs we faced. Yes, QBs don't play defense. It is much easier to play offense with a lead and good field position. Opposing QBs have strong impact on that. Go back and look at the QBs we faced.


bingo
The guy  
FranknWeezer : 12/2/2019 3:39 pm : link
doesn't even know how to roll up his sleeves like a normal human. Who folds the cuffs inward? Be gone! ;-)
RE: This Team  
Les in TO : 12/2/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14699873 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Nearly position-by-position is worse talent wise than in 2017. That is a major indictment on the front office and coaching staff. Anyone who took comfort in beating the 49ers 3rd string qb and the redskins 4th string qb were buying the fools gold sold by DG and co.

This team basically requires an entire Oline, impact players on the Dline, CBs who can cover, WRs who scare a defense, and Lbs. Many of those are the same needs as the end of the 2017 season. We won't really know what the qb is until the end of next season, so we can't say for certain whether that position has even been filled. Other than filling the running back position, not really sure what DG has done to inspire confidence that he can fix this mess.
Yup. We also need at least one safety, possibly a new kicker and a fullback or tight end
Here is the recap of the 2018 Season and now  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 3:52 pm : link
Gettleman was hired, looked at film of a late 2017 Eagles game and assessed he didn't need a change at QB nor a full-blown restructuring of the team. He focused on adding pieces (some costly) to make Eli more successful and changing out others that contributed to poor team culture.

It was a fairly large miscalculation that has left the team better in some areas (mostly because of drafting early) yet the same/worse in so many others. Most importantly, it has further delayed the timeline for this team to stabilize and reasonably compete versus the rest of the league.

Did I miss anything?
imagine he said "if you thought we sucked this year"  
Platos : 12/2/2019 4:10 pm : link
"wait till you see us next year!"

no GM in the league is going to tell you they aren't heading in the right direction. could you imagine the backlash?
RE: imagine he said  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14700083 Platos said:
Quote:
"wait till you see us next year!"

no GM in the league is going to tell you they aren't heading in the right direction. could you imagine the backlash?


That backlash you are hearing is the football world telling the Giants they clearly aren't heading in the right direction.

Can you imagine that?
Don't you guys know that this isn't his first rodeo????  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 4:50 pm : link
.
RE: Don't you guys know that this isn't his first rodeo????  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/2/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14700157 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


He's a buffoon, like the coach we hired. Both of them need to be shown the door.
Any Organization with Balls and Competent PR  
Lambuth_Special : 12/2/2019 4:53 pm : link
Can commit to a total rebuild and not act like they are 'afraid' of the backlash.

I know the NBA isn't a 1:1 example, but jesus, the Philadelphia 76ers basically sent 75 percent of their fan base (not to mention the national media) into a rage doing a complete multi-year tear-down, often not even trying to compete. They traded their reigning rookie-of-the-year player 30 games into his second season for god's sake.

Now, they are a perennial 50-win team and have the no.1 attendance in the league.

Hell, even the Dolphins appear to be having a lot more fun with their blatant rebuild than the Giants.
RE: Here is the recap of the 2018 Season and now  
V.I.G. : 12/2/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14700052 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Gettleman was hired, looked at film of a late 2017 Eagles game and assessed he didn't need a change at QB nor a full-blown restructuring of the team. He focused on adding pieces (some costly) to make Eli more successful and changing out others that contributed to poor team culture.

It was a fairly large miscalculation that has left the team better in some areas (mostly because of drafting early) yet the same/worse in so many others. Most importantly, it has further delayed the timeline for this team to stabilize and reasonably compete versus the rest of the league.

Did I miss anything?
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