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Saquon is extremely overrated and that is the truth

CY2020 : 12/2/2019 2:57 pm
He's not the kind of RB who sets the tempo of a game. He doesn't square his shoulders, run downhill, and run thru defenders. He doesn't keep the chains moving. He is hesitant, lacks vision, is afraid of contact, is flat out below average running between the Tackles, and is a poor blocker.

I see Saquon as just a more talented James White: A pass-catching back who will occasionally break off a couple big runs.
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December 2019.  
Mr. Bungle : 12/2/2019 2:58 pm : link
GTFO, troll.
CYA on your next handle  
Giantology : 12/2/2019 3:01 pm : link
.
We need Duke Johnson  
Anakim : 12/2/2019 3:01 pm : link
.
The guy didn’t suddenly  
darren in pdx : 12/2/2019 3:04 pm : link
forget how to play. He got injured and the team sucks on top of that.
Hes  
cokeduplt : 12/2/2019 3:06 pm : link
Superior or just as good as mccaffery in every aspect, Giants just don’t or can’t use him properly
How do you explain last year?  
DonnieD89 : 12/2/2019 3:10 pm : link
He’s not having a stellar year this year; however, he was injured early and has not performed like he did last year. His injury is nagging. Another thing that I have noticed is that when he gets the ball, the D line meets him two or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. How the hell are you supposed to be effective when you don’t have any blocking. I could honestly say that the blocking was better last year than this year. How do you account for all the Daniel Jones fumbles? Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? I think you need to scout much better.
False  
Mad Mike : 12/2/2019 3:11 pm : link
There is one truth, and one truth only.

RE: How do you explain last year?  
CY2020 : 12/2/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14699989 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
He’s not having a stellar year this year; however, he was injured early and has not performed like he did last year. His injury is nagging. Another thing that I have noticed is that when he gets the ball, the D line meets him two or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. How the hell are you supposed to be effective when you don’t have any blocking. I could honestly say that the blocking was better last year than this year. How do you account for all the Daniel Jones fumbles? Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? I think you need to scout much better.



Eli Manning.

Eli was an absolute master at checking his RB into optimal plays, in subtle ways that went unnoticed by the casual fan.

Saquon is no longer benefitting from Eli's audibles at the LOS. Jones is an enormous downgrade from Eli in that aspect.
We're requesting you delete your account...  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 3:14 pm : link
...on the grounds that you're the stupidest football poster in the history of BBI.
before draft I questioned his ability  
averagejoe : 12/2/2019 3:16 pm : link
to run between tackles and was assured he could run inside and outside. I specifically asked if he will be getting ball on 3rd and 4th down in short yardage situations. If he is not that kind of RB there is now way we can take him at 2.

Well my fears were well founded. He is a break or bust RB. He drops balls and misses blocks. DJ has to run now in short yardage situations. He is a great talent but until he learns to run hard he was a terrible pick at two overall.

RE: RE: How do you explain last year?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/2/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14699992 CY2020 said:
Quote:
In comment 14699989 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


He’s not having a stellar year this year; however, he was injured early and has not performed like he did last year. His injury is nagging. Another thing that I have noticed is that when he gets the ball, the D line meets him two or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. How the hell are you supposed to be effective when you don’t have any blocking. I could honestly say that the blocking was better last year than this year. How do you account for all the Daniel Jones fumbles? Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? I think you need to scout much better.




Eli Manning.

Eli was an absolute master at checking his RB into optimal plays, in subtle ways that went unnoticed by the casual fan.

Saquon is no longer benefitting from Eli's audibles at the LOS. Jones is an enormous downgrade from Eli in that aspect.

I don't care what anyone else says, I'm glad you're here on BBI. How else would a casual fan like myself find out that Barkley's excellence last year was due to Eli?
I don’t know about overrated  
ron mexico : 12/2/2019 3:20 pm : link
But the best back in the league talk should cease till further notice.
dude  
BleedBlue : 12/2/2019 3:21 pm : link
wtf is this?!

SB is still a GREAT back. he will be fine. he was hampered by an ankle injury and the OL has played like shit....the guy is still insanely talented
First off, who are you?  
5BowlsSoon : 12/2/2019 3:25 pm : link
You obviously have taken a new name and registered today just to stir up the pot here. So before I talk with you, who are you? Or what was your previous name you went by?
What bothers  
NJ-GMenFan : 12/2/2019 3:28 pm : link
Me most is all these damn runs up the middle... why not run a seeep or toss play??? Plus the Oline sucks
I do wonder  
jtfuoco : 12/2/2019 3:28 pm : link
if all the critics or coaching on him has changed the way he is playing this year. His vision is just not the same as it was last year and I don't think the injury was the cause.
I’ve always felt that  
Beef Wellington : 12/2/2019 3:31 pm : link
You don’t draft a RB in the first round. Especially with the lack of talent on the Giant O line
as i've said before, ever since that sit down with Barry Sanders....  
markky : 12/2/2019 3:36 pm : link
but seriously, it's the injury. before the injury this year he was playing well, after he's been tentative. i would have sat him down when it was clear the injury was hampering him (and hurting the team).
RE: We're requesting you delete your account...  
BMac : 12/2/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14699993 Torrag said:
Quote:
...on the grounds that you're the stupidest football poster in the history of BBI.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Doesn't matter if  
Josh in the City : 12/2/2019 3:53 pm : link
he's overrated or not b/c as I've said and gotten killed for hundreds of times on this site, IT'S A MEANINGLESS POSITION IN TODAY'S NFL. The mistake wasn't that we drafted Saquon at #2 overall. I still think he's going to be a great player. The mistake was drafting a RB at all in that position. That move, in and by itself, substantially set this franchise back.
RE: What bothers  
Darth Paul : 12/2/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14700012 NJ-GMenFan said:
Quote:
Me most is all these damn runs up the middle... why not run a seeep or toss play??? Plus the Oline sucks


I am so sick of the shotgun inside handoff, it is infuriating. He gets hit by three guys, three yards behind the line all the time. I never see a hole for him to hit. The coaches need to do something, anything different. Maybe a sweep of some counters. I don't know, I am SW Application Engineer, not a football mind. But running the same running play everytime, seems not to work. The Oline can't block anything, draw, sweep, screen doesn't matter. Barkley should have been pulled for the year.
There is something to the Eli affect here  
wonderback : 12/2/2019 3:55 pm : link
But this line is really bad. How many times does Saquon find a defender standing in the backfield as soon as the handoff is made. Unless you've played the position you have no idea how destructive that can be to a back, even if you break that tackle.

Having said that, he isn't wrong about Eli. That's a difficult thing for us to quantify not know what plays are being called and how the process for changes at the line is allowed by Jones.
RE: Doesn't matter if  
Ned In Atlanta : 12/2/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14700054 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
he's overrated or not b/c as I've said and gotten killed for hundreds of times on this site, IT'S A MEANINGLESS POSITION IN TODAY'S NFL. The mistake wasn't that we drafted Saquon at #2 overall. I still think he's going to be a great player. The mistake was drafting a RB at all in that position. That move, in and by itself, substantially set this franchise back.



You came back out of the wood works after Darnold had three good games and were pounding your chest. I suspect we will see a pattern with you. He played great against the hapless bengals yesterday
RE: RE: Doesn't matter if  
Josh in the City : 12/2/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14700062 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 14700054 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


he's overrated or not b/c as I've said and gotten killed for hundreds of times on this site, IT'S A MEANINGLESS POSITION IN TODAY'S NFL. The mistake wasn't that we drafted Saquon at #2 overall. I still think he's going to be a great player. The mistake was drafting a RB at all in that position. That move, in and by itself, substantially set this franchise back.




You came back out of the wood works after Darnold had three good games and were pounding your chest. I suspect we will see a pattern with you. He played great against the hapless bengals yesterday

Nope, I never left. Do you think Daniel Jones is a much better player than Sam Darnold? I still don't. And even though I liked Darnold in that draft, that's not even the point. The point is you don't take a RB at #2 overall under any circumstance...not only if you plan on drafting a QB.
If you mean overrated  
rocco8112 : 12/2/2019 4:10 pm : link
because he was goven a gold jacket by some after one season, than sure

But, he can play, I would like to see some more physicality, he is a big guy and he seems to like dancing around too much.

He did have a high ankle sprain, not making excuses,but that is a bitch of an injury.

I think Barkley will be an asset going forward, he still may light it up this season. The team should get a sledgehammer RB to go along with Barkley.

He's a talented kid  
Metnut : 12/2/2019 4:11 pm : link
but I can't believe we took him at #2 overall. The position just doesn't have the impact in today's NFL to justify that kind of asset IMO.

Even worse was the GM making remarks about how he didn't consider a trade down. He follows that up by mocking analytics, signing Solder to a record deal, and then trading two draft picks for a rental.

We can't change the past, and have to hope that Barkley and Jones can be core parts of the next winning Giants team, but I've had enough of the DG blunders.

Let's bring in a new GM and coach to lead this franchise into the next decade.
He was just  
mittenedman : 12/2/2019 4:20 pm : link
never a physical guy. Weight room freak but on the field he's a 230# LeSean McCoy. He could be a 2,000 yard RB every year for Andy Reid, Belichick or lots of others but he could also be terrible if used incorrectly.
Idiot  
LS : 12/2/2019 4:21 pm : link
kicker
RE: I’ve always felt that  
smshmth8690 : 12/2/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14700019 Beef Wellington said:
Quote:
You don’t draft a RB in the first round. Especially with the lack of talent on the Giant O line


^^^^^^^^ Best new poster handle in a while.
Head spinning  
HomerJones45 : 12/2/2019 4:26 pm : link
in one year, he went from a generational back to overrated????!!!!
RE: First off, who are you?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/2/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14700010 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
You obviously have taken a new name and registered today just to stir up the pot here. So before I talk with you, who are you? Or what was your previous name you went by?

RE: There is something to the Eli affect here  
FStubbs : 12/2/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14700059 wonderback said:
Quote:
But this line is really bad. How many times does Saquon find a defender standing in the backfield as soon as the handoff is made. Unless you've played the position you have no idea how destructive that can be to a back, even if you break that tackle.

Having said that, he isn't wrong about Eli. That's a difficult thing for us to quantify not know what plays are being called and how the process for changes at the line is allowed by Jones.


I'm surprised people are taking this as a joke. It's a HUGE reason why Barkley sucks at pass coverage and can't find holes. It's also caused the OL to play worse, because Eli was constantly changing plays at the line of scrimmage and he's a better offensive play caller than Shurmur is. Barkley's having to learn how to play the position in the NFL without relying on the QB as an on field coach.
This year's rushing leaders are  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/2/2019 4:55 pm : link
Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.

RE: RE: There is something to the Eli affect here  
BBelle21 : 12/2/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14700133 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14700059 wonderback said:


Quote:


But this line is really bad. How many times does Saquon find a defender standing in the backfield as soon as the handoff is made. Unless you've played the position you have no idea how destructive that can be to a back, even if you break that tackle.

Having said that, he isn't wrong about Eli. That's a difficult thing for us to quantify not know what plays are being called and how the process for changes at the line is allowed by Jones.



I'm surprised people are taking this as a joke. It's a HUGE reason why Barkley sucks at pass coverage and can't find holes. It's also caused the OL to play worse, because Eli was constantly changing plays at the line of scrimmage and he's a better offensive play caller than Shurmur is. Barkley's having to learn how to play the position in the NFL without relying on the QB as an on field coach.


Honestly, I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this. It’s all my family mentions whenever they see Barkley struggle these days. Jones might get there one day, but everything Eli did with his mind helped his team even if the execution was inconsistent. Eli absolutely helped/coached Saquon from a mental aspect. Saquon always talked about it in the post games last season. Sad, but at least Shurmur has nowhere to hide anymore.
Here’s another novel concept also  
DonnieD89 : 12/2/2019 5:12 pm : link
Why not utilize him appropriately? Panther seem to be doing a good job with McCaffrey. Tampa Bay seems to be doing a good job with Chubb.
RE: This year's rushing leaders are  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/2/2019 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14700173 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.


And yet, as you say that, the 4 rushing leaders were all picked in the first 2 rounds.
RE: This year's rushing leaders are  
darren in pdx : 12/2/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14700173 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.


Picked #35, #8, #45 and #24..Zeke was taken #4. Gurley was #10. Michel was #31. Mark Ingram was #28 and the Ravens are built solely on the running game. Barkley was considered the best prospect to come out of college since Peyton Manning, he was the BPA in that draft. If the Giants as a team weren't a dumpster fire no one would be latching on to this. They'd still fucking suck if they took a different player than Barkley as well. It's a fucking team sport.

The narrative that running backs are useless or not valued in today's NFL is bullshit. And the other narrative is that you can find just as good or better ones in later rounds of the draft, yet, you can do the research and find good players of any position in every round of the draft, the probability of them being good drastically drops the further you go each round, surprising, isn't it?
RE: RE: This year's rushing leaders are  
map7711 : 12/2/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14700233 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14700173 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.




And yet, as you say that, the 4 rushing leaders were all picked in the first 2 rounds.


Forget it. He’s on a roll.
RE: We need Duke Johnson  
montanagiant : 12/2/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14699979 Anakim said:
Quote:
.

lol
He's a 40 Home Run Guy  
arniefez : 12/2/2019 5:59 pm : link
but he hits .220 and strikes out 200 times.
RE: RE: RE: This year's rushing leaders are  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/2/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14700303 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 14700233 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 14700173 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.




And yet, as you say that, the 4 rushing leaders were all picked in the first 2 rounds.



Forget it. He’s on a roll.


The conversation naturally changes quite a bit if the giants take a RB in the second round and fix a different position at #2 overall. Isnt that the entire point?
RE: RE: This year's rushing leaders are  
AndyMilligan : 12/2/2019 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14700264 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
In comment 14700173 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Nick Chubb
McCaffrey
Derrick Henry
Josh Jacobs

The giants won two super bowls with no name RBs, and people want to pledge allegiance to gettleman for spending the #2 pick on a RB.




Picked #35, #8, #45 and #24..Zeke was taken #4. Gurley was #10. Michel was #31. Mark Ingram was #28 and the Ravens are built solely on the running game. Barkley was considered the best prospect to come out of college since Peyton Manning, he was the BPA in that draft. If the Giants as a team weren't a dumpster fire no one would be latching on to this. They'd still fucking suck if they took a different player than Barkley as well. It's a fucking team sport.

The narrative that running backs are useless or not valued in today's NFL is bullshit. And the other narrative is that you can find just as good or better ones in later rounds of the draft, yet, you can do the research and find good players of any position in every round of the draft, the probability of them being good drastically drops the further you go each round, surprising, isn't it?


umm no.. Barkley was not the best player since Manning, that is just hype you read here. As it turns out Lamar and Mahomes might be, but we failed to get both those guys when they were within our grasp..
Barkley is  
AndyMilligan : 12/2/2019 6:18 pm : link
an explosive home run threat who might take it to the house every time he touches the ball. So far it seems he doesn't make a living powering between the tackles. It just doesn't seem to be what he is best at. He is a great and dynamic player as long as he stays healthy and retains his explosiveness. Still not a great pick at #2. Poor use of positional value. But should be a very good to great player going forward.
Jersey Joe  
NBGblue : 12/2/2019 6:30 pm : link
it that you??? Been a long time.
RE: RE: RE: How do you explain last year?  
CY2020 : 12/2/2019 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14699997 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14699992 CY2020 said:


Quote:


In comment 14699989 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


He’s not having a stellar year this year; however, he was injured early and has not performed like he did last year. His injury is nagging. Another thing that I have noticed is that when he gets the ball, the D line meets him two or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. How the hell are you supposed to be effective when you don’t have any blocking. I could honestly say that the blocking was better last year than this year. How do you account for all the Daniel Jones fumbles? Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? I think you need to scout much better.




Eli Manning.

Eli was an absolute master at checking his RB into optimal plays, in subtle ways that went unnoticed by the casual fan.

Saquon is no longer benefitting from Eli's audibles at the LOS. Jones is an enormous downgrade from Eli in that aspect.


I don't care what anyone else says, I'm glad you're here on BBI. How else would a casual fan like myself find out that Barkley's excellence last year was due to Eli?



Keep scrolling down from your post and you'll see that many Giants fans agree with me on the Eli point.

Because it is true.
RE: We need Duke Johnson  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/2/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14699979 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


Best troll ever.
RE: RE: RE: There is something to the Eli affect here  
CY2020 : 12/2/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14700188 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14700133 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 14700059 wonderback said:


Quote:


But this line is really bad. How many times does Saquon find a defender standing in the backfield as soon as the handoff is made. Unless you've played the position you have no idea how destructive that can be to a back, even if you break that tackle.

Having said that, he isn't wrong about Eli. That's a difficult thing for us to quantify not know what plays are being called and how the process for changes at the line is allowed by Jones.



I'm surprised people are taking this as a joke. It's a HUGE reason why Barkley sucks at pass coverage and can't find holes. It's also caused the OL to play worse, because Eli was constantly changing plays at the line of scrimmage and he's a better offensive play caller than Shurmur is. Barkley's having to learn how to play the position in the NFL without relying on the QB as an on field coach.



Honestly, I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this. It’s all my family mentions whenever they see Barkley struggle these days. Jones might get there one day, but everything Eli did with his mind helped his team even if the execution was inconsistent. Eli absolutely helped/coached Saquon from a mental aspect. Saquon always talked about it in the post games last season. Sad, but at least Shurmur has nowhere to hide anymore.



Absolutely. 1000%.

The fact that there are fans on here who actually disagree with the notion of Saquon benefitting from Eli's audibles and being an "on field coach"...is shocking.
RE: He's a 40 Home Run Guy  
CY2020 : 12/2/2019 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14700339 arniefez said:
Quote:
but he hits .220 and strikes out 200 times.



Perfect analogy.

Adam Dunn of the NFL
Barkley is certainly overrated here on BBI  
.McL. : 12/2/2019 7:32 pm : link
Probably by people in general.

I know that many here don't believe in statistical analysis, but the analysis shows that there is no correlation between winning and rushing yards, and winning and yards per rush. However, if we create an running efficiency metric that varies based on down and distance (usually at least 40% of necessary yards on 1st down, 50% on 2nd, and making a 1st on 3rd down), then we do find a correlation between rushing effieciency and winning.

Barkley is one of the least efficient runners in the NFL PERIOD. His running around in the backfield is hurting the Giants offense... Badly.

This is not saying that SB lacks of talent, but he has to learn to make better use of it. His failures have everything to do with his running style. SB wants to hit the homerun every time he gets the ball. He tries to do too much, rather than take what he can get and move on to the next play.

This has been a knock on him as a pro, and all throughout his college years.

Last year he was 41st out of 47 RB in rushing efficiency. This year he is 33rd (dead last out of qualifying candidates) in terms of rushing efficiency.

Of course the OL shared the responsibility of this poor performance. But if the RB is so dependent on the OL to look good. Then doesn't that belie the logic of spending so much resources on a RB rather than the OL...

Rushing Success 2018
Rk Player Suc
Rate
1 G.Edwards 63%
2 A.Kamara 58%
3 M.Ingram 57%
4 T.Gurley 57%
5 K.Hunt 55%
6 A.Jones 55%
7 C.McCaffrey 55%
8 M.Mack 54%
9 D.Martin 53%
10 S.Michel 53%
11 K.Johnson 53%
12 M.Gordon 53%
13 A.Ekeler 52%
14 M.Davis 52%
15 C.Carson 51%
16 D.Henry 51%
17 J.Howard 50%
18 J.Adams 50%
19 N.Chubb 50%
20 F.Gore 50%
21 E.Elliott 50%
22 J.Conner 49%
23 J.Mixon 49%
24 P.Lindsay 49%
25 T.J.Yeldon 48%
26 L.Fournette 47%
27 A.Collins 47%
28 A.Peterson 47%
29 R.Freeman 46%
30 L.Murray 46%
31 M.Breida 46%
32 J.Williams 45%
33 K.Drake 45%
34 P.Barber 44%
35 C.Ivory 44%
36 L.Miller 44%
27 T.Coleman 43%
38 A.Morris 41%
39 A.Blue 41%
40 D.Cook 41%
41 S.Barkley 41%
42 C.Hyde 39%
43 Da.Johnson 38%
44 L.Blount 37%
45 L.McCoy 37%
46 I.Crowell 36%
47 D.Lewis 34%

Rushing Success 2019
1 L.Murray 61%
2 M.Ingram 60%
3 A.Jones 59%
4 C.Carson 56%
5 C.Hyde 55%
6 A.Kamara 54%
7 E.Elliott 54%
8 M.Mack 53%
9 J.Howard 53%
10 P.Lindsay 51%
11 J.Jacobs 51%
12 T.Gurley 50%
13 D.Cook 50%
14 D.Henry 49%
15 M.Gordon 48%
16 F.Gore 47%
17 R.Jones 47%
18 C.McCaffrey 47%
19 M.Sanders 46%
20 A.Peterson 46%
21 S.Michel 46%
22 L.Bell 45%
23 J.Conner 45%
24 J.Mixon 45%
24 R.Freeman 45%
26 N.Chubb 45%
27 D.Montgomery 44%
28 P.Barber 44%
29 M.Breida 44%
30 D.Freeman 42%
31 L.Fournette 41%
32 T.Coleman 40%
33 S.Barkley 38%
Data courtesy of Football Outsiders  
.McL. : 12/2/2019 7:36 pm : link
2019
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb/2019

2018
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb/2018
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