as a defensive CF replacement. He's not terrible v LHP, and can spell Nimmo v tough lefties.
He has a reputation as a defender, but his defense has been in steady decline the past few years and he's always been a poor hitter. Maybe he could be fine to bring in to spring training on a non-guaranteed deal in case a bunch of guys get hurt, but if he's expected to play a big part in 2020, then our offseason didn't go well.
I'd rather trade Davis than Smith - for the sole reason Davis will be more attractive, especially to AL teams.
So, if I'm trading one of them, I'd rather trade for JBJ and Barnes than Cain and Davis has more appeal to an AL team.
I don't even think the Mets need to add to that trade.
but in true Mets fashion they would probably try and add Familia to lose the salary and for the privilege of trading Familia's salary it would cost them Gimenez (or some bullshit like that) - turning a salary dump by the Red Sox into one also for the Mets, but allowing the Sox to pick the Mets pocket.
anyway point is I see Davis as more valuable a trade chip than Smith.
And I see an AL team the best destination for Davis b/c he can DH and be a utility guy elsewhere.
vs. Davis... I could see it either way. Smith has the pedigree, Davis potentially more versatile but Davis BABIP isn't almost certainly isn't sustainable.
vs. Davis... I could see it either way. Smith has the pedigree, Davis potentially more versatile but Davis BABIP isn't almost certainly isn't sustainable.
Agree. I just think Davis' power is attractive than Smith's pedigree. I think the Mets gave up on Smith way too early in 2018 and in 2019 Alonso Wally Pipp'd him before Smith could even become Wally Pipp. I wish there was some way the Mets could play both Alonso and Smith, but they can't. Nonetheless I'd still try and keep Smith over Davis - for the reasons I mentioned above.
Davis' power could be attractive to a number of teams, especially somewhere like Fenway. I can see him as a 40 HR guy there.
And in the AL they don't have to find a position for him. And if they get a taker for JDM - JDD slides right into the DH spot.
that's a net increase of just $4.5m this year and last year and the year before Cain was the top CF in baseball defensively (+40 DRS from 2018-2019). Whereas JBJ has declined defensively.
Yes we have to take on years 2 & 3, but Cain is just flat out the better player. He'd be the near perfect fit for the team playing CF most of the time but kept fresh by Nimmo being able to take days here and there. Nimmo and JDFD could compete for time in LF.
Cain would also create another tablesetter option in the lineup ahead of Alsonso/Conforto.
vs JBJ is splitting hairs a little. I'd take either. Both plus defenders who have zero issue being full time CFers.
I mean, JBJ pushed Betts off CF.
JBJ is I believe in his final arbitration year, so you have this year on arb, and then he's a FA - and for a team like the Mets that's unfortunately important.
I just think he'd cost less with the Red Sox allegedly aggressively trying to get under luxury tax threshold.
In a big deal I'd pursue Betts. In a smaller deal, JBJ and Barnes.
For their careers JBJ is a 91 RC, Cain is 106. If you are exchanging Lowrie you are getting the cheaper player this year by half while money is tight with Cespedes still on the books, the better defender by far according to the metrics, and the more polished hitter with more upside. Downside is taking on 2 extra future years for an older player. I would ideally hope to get MIL to kick in $2-3m per year of those 2 future years to mitigate the risk of more dead money.
more than double two years ago. Hate to say it but there is going to likely be a work stoppage in 2021 since the probably won't negotiate until it's too late and there are a lot of things that need fixing from the MLBPA.
making decisions solely based on defensive metrics.
Look how some players fluctuate so much from year to year.
I watch enough Red Sox games that I'd be comfortable with JBJ in CF every game.
Cain too.
But all things considered I think JBJ is a better Mets fit.
Only advantage I'd give Cain is being a righty bat.
but the age, money, power, IOW - tangible things - lean JBJ.
If the defense is = or close I'd go JBJ too. I can't say yes or no on that because I haven't watched either enough so I am heavily weighting defensive metrics which I agree are very fallible. If JBJ's defense isn't an upgrade on Nimmo he has limited appeal to me, because he's definitely not an offensive upgrade.
to the Phillies. Can't believe the Mets aren't even involved in the bidding. We have zero rotation depth in the organization. A Degrom or Thor 30-45 day DL stint and our season will be toast.
Teams like the Yankees (Sevorino) and Dodgers (Kershaw) are still able to compete when their best pitcher goes down for a period of time. Why the hell can't the Mets try and build up that kind of depth?
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
6m
Zack Wheeler is expected to sign soon "maybe even today" according to @Ken_Rosenthal
.
He says the Phillies, Reds, and White Sox are the three most serious teams.
This really pisses me off. It’s one thing to not go after the top free agents. It’s another thing to let your own players walk to your competitors simply over money.
Its a huge indictment on the Mets that other teams think Wheeler is untapped potential. And for the fans who will say he’s getting overpaid- the Mets could afford and they won’t use that money elsewhere. Enjoy watching some scrub pitch every 5th day because they have zero pitching depth.
sad for us that they didn't resign him over the past couple years as he's been saying he wanted to stay and was willing to negotiate. Still so infuriating to have given up 2 good prospects, 1 already at the MLB level, to pay an inferior player $12m this year (Stroman) and then go through the same song and dance again over the next 12 months.
Are we supposed to root for him to pitch so well we similarly can't afford resigning him next year either or to suck so we can?
before Thor is a free agent too. A smart team might try to work out an extension before (or if) he breaks out. Instead, the Mets will likely wait until the last minute.
Given the long-term outlook with starting pitching, and DeGrom's age, you have to think that this is a true "win-now" situation. If that's the case, then why the hell aren't they in on Wheeler? I'm not even asking them to sign Cole or Strasburg, but competing with teams like the White Sox and Reds for Wheeler doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
on Hader said to be "massive". So the Mets will do this right? lol
Done deal. Hader and Braun for Matt Allan, Mauricio, Diaz (who rebounds to 2018), JD Davis and Gimenez. Plus the Mets will offer McNeil but the Brewers will feel bad, because of their Midwestern manners and decline taking McNeil too.
on Hader said to be "massive". So the Mets will do this right? lol
Would Brodie do Conforto for Hader? Would the Brewers do that?
The Brewers are trying to cut salary and rebuild their farm on the fly. Conforto is projected to make roughly double Hader so I'd be stunned. I wouldn't do that if I were the Mets either.
on Hader said to be "massive". So the Mets will do this right? lol
Would Brodie do Conforto for Hader? Would the Brewers do that?
The Brewers are trying to cut salary and rebuild their farm on the fly. Conforto is projected to make roughly double Hader so I'd be stunned. I wouldn't do that if I were the Mets either.
I'm not thrilled with it either, but we have a complete glut of corner OFs, especially if Cespedes is going to play next year. We might as well try to deal one of them and Conforto seems like he'd have good trade value.
What type of starting pitcher could we get for him?
the mets themselves have said they don't expect Ces next year Â
they are usually overly optimistic about things like that so either they are doing the opposite of what they normally do or there's a very small chance he has any impact.
an opportunity by passing on Bloom and hiring BVW. BVW basically capped out the team in one year and traded most of the best prospects away.
If we had a playoff team, I'd be OK with it, but it doesn't look like they are more than wild card contenders since they have no capacity to upgrade the team this offseason other than shifting deck chairs around.
just sucks we could have kept Kelenic and Dunn last year Â
and purging half the farm so the only logical option now is to spend. And now they aren't going to. Rinse and repeat the life of a Met fan. We can probably write BVW's opening ST press conference:
"we are excited to see what Robbie and Marcus can do over a full season"
"we expect Edwin and Jeurys to be the players they've been their whole careers"
"Carlos is going to bring a fresh dynamic to giving our guys the edge they need"
"we look at Lowrie like a FA pickup since he didn't play last year, let's not forget he was an all star in 2018"
It really is embarrassing that they will be 4th in their own division in spending/ aggressiveness. If they won’t even entertain resigning their own homegrown pitcher like Wheeler, what will they do? This will be repeated next year with Stroman and Noah the following year.
The only bad contract on the books is Cano ( and it’s bad) but that shouldn’t preclude them from spending. It’s shameful how they operate this team.
1 year/ $18M. Yankees were supposedly considering him. Not bad when you can get a veteran starter on a 1 year deal.
Atlanta has been aggressive, They've added:
SP Cole Hamels - 1 year deal
C Travis d'Arnaud - 2 year deal
RP Will Smith - 3 year deal
plus they re-signed relievers Chris Martin (2 years) and Darren O'Day (1 day)
Marc Carig
@MarcCarig
·
1m
The Phillies have reached an agreement with Zack Wheeler, sources tell @TheAthletic
. The ex-Met stays in the NL East, and close to New Jersey, where Wheeler’s wife is from.
Marc Carig
@MarcCarig
·
1m
The Phillies have reached an agreement with Zack Wheeler, sources tell @TheAthletic
. The ex-Met stays in the NL East, and close to New Jersey, where Wheeler’s wife is from.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
· 8m
Right-hander Zack Wheeler and the Philadelphia Phillies are in agreement on a five-year deal worth more than $100 million, sources tell ESPN.
I am disappointed that Wheeler is going to Philly, but I do not believe that he is worth $118M over 5 years. If it was that yearly amount on a 2 or 3 year deal that is one thing, but years 4 and 5 at nearly $24M per year is a lot of money. Also worth noting that he can be prone to the long ball and Philly is definitely notorious for being hitter friendly.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
#Angels have acquired RHP Dylan Bundy from the #Orioles, sources tell The Athletic. Triple A RHP Isaac Mattson in deal, heading to Baltimore.
4:03 PM · Dec 4, 2019·Tweetbot for iΟS
not much more prideful in free agency transactions to learn a player took less to come to your team.
And vice versa not much worse than learning you offered more and still the player chose elsewhere. At least you can't blame the GM.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig
said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.
2:51 PM · Dec 4, 2019·Tweetbot for iΟS
He has a reputation as a defender, but his defense has been in steady decline the past few years and he's always been a poor hitter. Maybe he could be fine to bring in to spring training on a non-guaranteed deal in case a bunch of guys get hurt, but if he's expected to play a big part in 2020, then our offseason didn't go well.
So, if I'm trading one of them, I'd rather trade for JBJ and Barnes than Cain and Davis has more appeal to an AL team.
I don't even think the Mets need to add to that trade.
but in true Mets fashion they would probably try and add Familia to lose the salary and for the privilege of trading Familia's salary it would cost them Gimenez (or some bullshit like that) - turning a salary dump by the Red Sox into one also for the Mets, but allowing the Sox to pick the Mets pocket.
anyway point is I see Davis as more valuable a trade chip than Smith.
And I see an AL team the best destination for Davis b/c he can DH and be a utility guy elsewhere.
Ellsbury is available. Just saying.
Agree. I just think Davis' power is attractive than Smith's pedigree. I think the Mets gave up on Smith way too early in 2018 and in 2019 Alonso Wally Pipp'd him before Smith could even become Wally Pipp. I wish there was some way the Mets could play both Alonso and Smith, but they can't. Nonetheless I'd still try and keep Smith over Davis - for the reasons I mentioned above.
Davis' power could be attractive to a number of teams, especially somewhere like Fenway. I can see him as a 40 HR guy there.
And in the AL they don't have to find a position for him. And if they get a taker for JDM - JDD slides right into the DH spot.
@BR_MLB
·
1h
Yankees will meet with Gerrit Cole today and are “all in” on the star pitcher, per @JonHeyman
He finished last season 20-5 with a 2.50 ERA
Yes we have to take on years 2 & 3, but Cain is just flat out the better player. He'd be the near perfect fit for the team playing CF most of the time but kept fresh by Nimmo being able to take days here and there. Nimmo and JDFD could compete for time in LF.
Cain would also create another tablesetter option in the lineup ahead of Alsonso/Conforto.
I mean, JBJ pushed Betts off CF.
JBJ is I believe in his final arbitration year, so you have this year on arb, and then he's a FA - and for a team like the Mets that's unfortunately important.
I just think he'd cost less with the Red Sox allegedly aggressively trying to get under luxury tax threshold.
In a big deal I'd pursue Betts. In a smaller deal, JBJ and Barnes.
JBJ -1
Cain +20
2018 DRS
JBJ -2
Cain +20 (won NL GG)
2019 OPS
JBJ .738 (90 RC)
Cain .697 (83 RC)
2018 OPS
JBJ .717 (90 RC)
Cain .813 (124 RC - was worth 5.7 fwar)
For their careers JBJ is a 91 RC, Cain is 106. If you are exchanging Lowrie you are getting the cheaper player this year by half while money is tight with Cespedes still on the books, the better defender by far according to the metrics, and the more polished hitter with more upside. Downside is taking on 2 extra future years for an older player. I would ideally hope to get MIL to kick in $2-3m per year of those 2 future years to mitigate the risk of more dead money.
Look how some players fluctuate so much from year to year.
I watch enough Red Sox games that I'd be comfortable with JBJ in CF every game.
Cain too.
But all things considered I think JBJ is a better Mets fit.
Only advantage I'd give Cain is being a righty bat.
but the age, money, power, IOW - tangible things - lean JBJ.
Look how some players fluctuate so much from year to year.
I watch enough Red Sox games that I'd be comfortable with JBJ in CF every game.
Cain too.
But all things considered I think JBJ is a better Mets fit.
Only advantage I'd give Cain is being a righty bat.
but the age, money, power, IOW - tangible things - lean JBJ.
If the defense is = or close I'd go JBJ too. I can't say yes or no on that because I haven't watched either enough so I am heavily weighting defensive metrics which I agree are very fallible. If JBJ's defense isn't an upgrade on Nimmo he has limited appeal to me, because he's definitely not an offensive upgrade.
@mikemayerMMO
·
6m
Zack Wheeler is expected to sign soon "maybe even today" according to @Ken_Rosenthal
.
He says the Phillies, Reds, and White Sox are the three most serious teams.
Teams like the Yankees (Sevorino) and Dodgers (Kershaw) are still able to compete when their best pitcher goes down for a period of time. Why the hell can't the Mets try and build up that kind of depth?
@mikemayerMMO
·
6m
Zack Wheeler is expected to sign soon "maybe even today" according to @Ken_Rosenthal
.
He says the Phillies, Reds, and White Sox are the three most serious teams.
This really pisses me off. It’s one thing to not go after the top free agents. It’s another thing to let your own players walk to your competitors simply over money.
Its a huge indictment on the Mets that other teams think Wheeler is untapped potential. And for the fans who will say he’s getting overpaid- the Mets could afford and they won’t use that money elsewhere. Enjoy watching some scrub pitch every 5th day because they have zero pitching depth.
Are we supposed to root for him to pitch so well we similarly can't afford resigning him next year either or to suck so we can?
Given the long-term outlook with starting pitching, and DeGrom's age, you have to think that this is a true "win-now" situation. If that's the case, then why the hell aren't they in on Wheeler? I'm not even asking them to sign Cole or Strasburg, but competing with teams like the White Sox and Reds for Wheeler doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Done deal. Hader and Braun for Matt Allan, Mauricio, Diaz (who rebounds to 2018), JD Davis and Gimenez. Plus the Mets will offer McNeil but the Brewers will feel bad, because of their Midwestern manners and decline taking McNeil too.
Would Brodie do Conforto for Hader? Would the Brewers do that?
Quote:
on Hader said to be "massive". So the Mets will do this right? lol
Would Brodie do Conforto for Hader? Would the Brewers do that?
The Brewers are trying to cut salary and rebuild their farm on the fly. Conforto is projected to make roughly double Hader so I'd be stunned. I wouldn't do that if I were the Mets either.
Quote:
In comment 14702428 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
on Hader said to be "massive". So the Mets will do this right? lol
Would Brodie do Conforto for Hader? Would the Brewers do that?
The Brewers are trying to cut salary and rebuild their farm on the fly. Conforto is projected to make roughly double Hader so I'd be stunned. I wouldn't do that if I were the Mets either.
I'm not thrilled with it either, but we have a complete glut of corner OFs, especially if Cespedes is going to play next year. We might as well try to deal one of them and Conforto seems like he'd have good trade value.
What type of starting pitcher could we get for him?
either blow it up and go for it.
and go for it doesn't mean trade the farm for a closer.
it means open the checkbook, exceed the luxury tax (for a year) and field a team that can compete for the division.
right now they're at least behind the Braves and Phillies (with Wheeler on the Phillies).
And who knows how they will stack up against the defending WS champ Nationals.
They're likely projected 4th in the division.
should be
either blow it up or go for it.
If we had a playoff team, I'd be OK with it, but it doesn't look like they are more than wild card contenders since they have no capacity to upgrade the team this offseason other than shifting deck chairs around.
Kept Mcneil at his natural position
Still sign Familia/Ramos/Lowrie
And still be able to sign a Daniel Hudson/Betances or Moose
"we are excited to see what Robbie and Marcus can do over a full season"
"we expect Edwin and Jeurys to be the players they've been their whole careers"
"Carlos is going to bring a fresh dynamic to giving our guys the edge they need"
"we look at Lowrie like a FA pickup since he didn't play last year, let's not forget he was an all star in 2018"
The only bad contract on the books is Cano ( and it’s bad) but that shouldn’t preclude them from spending. It’s shameful how they operate this team.
I don't hate it, though they're being crucified on social media for potentially replacing Wheeler with Porcello.
Reality is though they replaced Wheeler with Stroman and would be adding Porcello.
If they sign Porcello - which is just rumored from what I know, the starting 5 of JDG, Syndergaard, Stro, Matz, Porcello would not be awful.
but it does not address the flaws of bullpen, defense, and depth - the gap from majors to next in line is wide with the Mets.
Atlanta has been aggressive, They've added:
SP Cole Hamels - 1 year deal
C Travis d'Arnaud - 2 year deal
RP Will Smith - 3 year deal
plus they re-signed relievers Chris Martin (2 years) and Darren O'Day (1 day)
@MarcCarig
·
1m
The Phillies have reached an agreement with Zack Wheeler, sources tell @TheAthletic
. The ex-Met stays in the NL East, and close to New Jersey, where Wheeler’s wife is from.
the Mets trade Kelenic and Dunn to keep Diaz off the Phillies, but they won't sign Wheeler to keep him off the Phillies.
@MarcCarig
·
1m
The Phillies have reached an agreement with Zack Wheeler, sources tell @TheAthletic
. The ex-Met stays in the NL East, and close to New Jersey, where Wheeler’s wife is from.
Shit
@JeffPassan
· 8m
Right-hander Zack Wheeler and the Philadelphia Phillies are in agreement on a five-year deal worth more than $100 million, sources tell ESPN.
The NL East was one of the best divisions in baseball last year and is only getting tougher. Hopefully the Nats lose Stras and Rendon.
the Mets trade Kelenic and Dunn to keep Diaz off the Phillies, but they won't sign Wheeler to keep him off the Phillies.
I wonder why....
An ownership group that won't pay for free agents but will sacrifice farm talent any chance they can get. What an awful combo.
One of my favorite Mets too, Fuck me
I am disappointed that Wheeler is going to Philly, but I do not believe that he is worth $118M over 5 years. If it was that yearly amount on a 2 or 3 year deal that is one thing, but years 4 and 5 at nearly $24M per year is a lot of money. Also worth noting that he can be prone to the long ball and Philly is definitely notorious for being hitter friendly.
@Ken_Rosenthal
#Angels have acquired RHP Dylan Bundy from the #Orioles, sources tell The Athletic. Triple A RHP Isaac Mattson in deal, heading to Baltimore.
4:03 PM · Dec 4, 2019·Tweetbot for iΟS
And vice versa not much worse than learning you offered more and still the player chose elsewhere. At least you can't blame the GM.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig
said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.
2:51 PM · Dec 4, 2019·Tweetbot for iΟS