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What do you honestly think happens?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/2/2019 4:59 pm
I think 99.9% of us want Shurmur gone. I think a majority-myself included-want Gettleman to be shown the door too. But I'm not asking what you hope happens come 4 weeks from today.

What do you think actually happens?

I'm of the thought that DG survives, but Shurmur & his woebegone staff are shown the exit.
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RE: think a majority-myself included-want Gettleman to be shown the door  
Sean : 12/2/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14700248 Torrag said:
Quote:
I disagree with that characterization. Appears to be pretty evenly split here on BBI. In my circle of Giants fans which is extensive opinion leans toward retaining him.

As for what I think will happen. DG will stay and Shurmur and staff will go. As it should be.


What is your rebuttal to the idea that the presence of Gettleman will limit the interested candidates in the job?
'Gettleman will limit the interested candidates'  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 5:30 pm : link
Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.
RE: RE: What happens is pretty simple - Gettleman is retained, Shurmur is  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14700230 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:


Quote:


out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression.

The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster.

The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.



So, you think it will be Garrett, McCarthy or Rivera for HC?


I don't think Rivera touches this one. I would imagine either Garrett or McCarthy, and neither will succeed. Garrett hasn't done much with a lot more talent, and there's every reason to believe McCarthy wouldn't be anything without Rodgers at QB.
Both coach and GM  
Metnut : 12/2/2019 5:31 pm : link
are fired. Giants have been an embarrassment for too long. This year has been eye opening to Mara by all accounts, so I think we see wholesale change.
RE: 'Gettleman will limit the interested candidates'  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14700263 Torrag said:
Quote:
Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.


Except that it was already rumored to be the case during the last HC search.
Gettleman fires Shurmur (or recommends to Mara he fire Shurmur)  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/2/2019 5:31 pm : link
Gettleman does this because he knows it buys him two more years.

If the team sucks next year with a new coach, the new coach won’t get fired after one year (if he does that would terrible optics and mean Jones would have 3 head coaches in 3 years).

If the team sucks next year under the new coach, Gettleman won’t get fired because no new GM will want to come in with a coach already in place.
There's what's likely, and what I want to see happen  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 5:41 pm : link
What's likely:

The entire coaching staff is fired, Gettleman remains and helps Mara pick the next coach. Likeliest name is Jason Garrett. Team goes 5-11 in 2020, at which point Gettleman is pushed out the door and replaced by Abrams after a sham interview process. Thus the Giants keep hopping from one fall guy to the next.

What I want:

Everyone not named Mara (I don't ever expect Chris Mara to be fired) or Tisch that has to do with football operations is gone. The antiquated structure is blown up, and a head coach is hired to rebuild the organization. Everything points back up to the head coach, including the hiring of a GM/personnel director.
RE: There's what's likely, and what I want to see happen  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14700298 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What's likely:

The entire coaching staff is fired, Gettleman remains and helps Mara pick the next coach. Likeliest name is Jason Garrett. Team goes 5-11 in 2020, at which point Gettleman is pushed out the door and replaced by Abrams after a sham interview process. Thus the Giants keep hopping from one fall guy to the next.

What I want:

Everyone not named Mara (I don't ever expect Chris Mara to be fired) or Tisch that has to do with football operations is gone. The antiquated structure is blown up, and a head coach is hired to rebuild the organization. Everything points back up to the head coach, including the hiring of a GM/personnel director.


Sorry, but I'm adding 'fire Chris Mara' to my 'want' list. And for good reason - he's been VP of Pro Personnel for a team that has been abysmal for some time now.

People will say it's just a title, that we don't know how involved he is. Fine and dandy - then give him a 'Giants Senior Vice President of Public Relations' or some other non-football title, and keep him the hell away from personnel decisions, even if in title only.
'it was already rumored'  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 5:44 pm : link
Exactly...fiction. Some of you dolts don't get what a fact vs an opinion or rumor is? You want to believe said BS that's up to you. Don't spew this garbage like it's the established truth. It isn't.
Unless we jettison both, we’re screwed  
The_Boss : 12/2/2019 5:47 pm : link
PS is fired but DG stays, it might limit the coaching search to just desperate retreads dying for another shot. Then in 2 years, we clean house.

If they all stay, we go 4-12 next year, then we blow ‘em both out.

Anything other than a clean slate is just wasting time.
RE: Agree......  
Bluesbreaker : 12/2/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14700211 John In CO said:
Quote:
Shurmur is a goner. By the end of this season his all time record will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17-50, and his winning % with the Giants may be even worse. Damn near impossible to sell that to the fan base.

I think DG gets another year. His drafts have been at least OK....far from perfect, but I like what ive seen of a few guys at least (Slayton, Connelly). After years of complaining about the lack of hits after RD 3 we may actually have a few. And as for FA, that has been a bust so far, but he also hasn't exactly been playing the game with much of a bank account. Kind of had to buy a few St James PL instead of shopping for Broadway or Park Place. And with FA, you also have to consider that not only do you have to want a player, the player needs to want YOU. So anyway, I think he gets one more year at least. Would not be disappointed if that were not the case, but I do expect that is how it will go down

That makes the most sense to me UnShumur is just not
head coaching material but coaching on both sides of the
all were horrific vs Greenbay and yrs not a lot of QB's
can make the plays that Rodgers does .
If they uproot the entire system i'm fine with it
If they keep DG another season fine but the coaches need to
go . I think another solid off season things will start
to turn around we have a lot of young players that have
potential we know where we need to improve O-line edge
saftey LB . I think Jones is good enough to lead us .
One thing I think is important, though it shouldn't be...  
Go Terps : 12/2/2019 5:50 pm : link
I think the Giants need to lose these last 4 games. We all know (or at least we should) that these last 4 games shouldn't save anyone, but a 2-14 record would be the worst Giants record since 1966. That might resonate with John.

Also...I don't like telling people what to do with their time and money, but if you're a season ticket holder and want to see change, please consider staying home for the last two home games against Miami and Philly. That will definitely resonate with John. Alternatively, some type of embarrassing fiasco would help. A sideline blowup between coaches and players, a game stoppage due to snowballs being thrown on the field, a stadium power outage, something...

I wish I were kidding, but this franchise is the loved one that needs to bottom out before they can begin the road to recovery.
The best poster on BBI to usually tell you what will happen  
Jimmy Googs : 12/2/2019 5:51 pm : link
is Britt in VA.

Unfortunately, it is also usually what shouldn't happen...
RE: 'it was already rumored'  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14700306 Torrag said:
Quote:
Exactly...fiction. Some of you dolts don't get what a fact vs an opinion or rumor is? You want to believe said BS that's up to you. Don't spew this garbage like it's the established truth. It isn't.


LOL, if you can't read then I can't help you - it was clearly labeled as speculative.
Shurmur out, Gettleman stays  
Oscar : 12/2/2019 5:54 pm : link
Dumb way to do business but I think that’s what will happen. Remember, Gettleman is part of the Giants family and has been to a few Super Bowls over the years as he’s so quick to remind everyone. Shurmur takes the fall, otherwise business as usual.

They hire another “adult”, probably someone like Garrett. Possibly Mike Smith or something. Rivera if he gets fired by Carolina.

The Giants are not in the bold move business, they are in the safe and familiar business. John Mara wants to get on base, he’s not swinging doe the fences.
Shurmur and all his staff are goners.  
Red Dog : 12/2/2019 5:55 pm : link
Gettleman stays, as he should.

DG's drafts appear to have been solid so far. It's tough to tell sometimes due to the coaching disaster.

His FA signings and waiver pick-ups haven't been as bad as many of the morons here contend. You have to start somewhere after the team was totally destroyed by Reese and Ross. Plus the best players never reach free agency anyway, so you are always dealing with role players rather than core guys as vet FAs.

Solder was best available OT and has been hampered by gawdawful coaching of young players around him. Ditto Remmers, who has been a decent ROT in the past. Tate is a good acquisition. Ditto Marcus Golden. DG also upgraded the Punter position with Dixon, and Core is a better gunner than anyone they had at the time. TE Kaden Smith also looks promising. Could he have done better? Sure. He's had a bunch of real clunkers, too. But it isn't all bad as some contend.

Good lord, Mike Smith  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:55 pm : link
I had forgotten about him, though I doubt you're wrong.
RE: Shurmur and all his staff are goners.  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14700329 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Gettleman stays, as he should.

DG's drafts appear to have been solid so far. It's tough to tell sometimes due to the coaching disaster.

His FA signings and waiver pick-ups haven't been as bad as many of the morons here contend. You have to start somewhere after the team was totally destroyed by Reese and Ross. Plus the best players never reach free agency anyway, so you are always dealing with role players rather than core guys as vet FAs.

Solder was best available OT and has been hampered by gawdawful coaching of young players around him. Ditto Remmers, who has been a decent ROT in the past. Tate is a good acquisition. Ditto Marcus Golden. DG also upgraded the Punter position with Dixon, and Core is a better gunner than anyone they had at the time. TE Kaden Smith also looks promising. Could he have done better? Sure. He's had a bunch of real clunkers, too. But it isn't all bad as some contend.


That's fucking hilarious - have you always written satire or was this the first one?

Solder's awful, and he was paid top OLT money. Your recap seems to overlook Jonathan Stewart, of the 'it's only $3M, who cares if you piss it away' variety FA. Or Patrick Omameh, there was a few million well spent on a guy who didn't make it through the year.

Or Ogletree - who Dandy Dave gave up draft picks for the right to pay $10M for nothing. Sense a pattern? Here comes Leonard Williams!

You guys make Redskins fans seem level headed.
I think Mike Smith's last stint as DC in Tampa ended his HC career  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 6:00 pm : link
It was an unmitigated disaster. He was fired 6 games in to his second season there.
Shurmur gone, Gettleman Stays  
Biteymax22 : 12/2/2019 6:03 pm : link
If they wanted to replace both, they would have moved on from Gettleman already. Having to hire a GM prior to a coach when the whole league is in hire frenzy is difficult. The logical move would be to fired the GM, find a new one before black Monday, and be able to concentrate on your coaching search.
DG and PS both stay  
Rory : 12/2/2019 6:08 pm : link
new DC, OC, and Oline coach.

heh....I see the latest bandwagon people are going to jump on is Smith  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 6:09 pm : link
Hey, this guy had a good game against the Packers! ALL HAIL GETTLEMAN FOR THIS GENIUS ACQUISITION!

Could we wait and see for more than two games?
RE: 'Gettleman will limit the interested candidates'  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 6:10 pm : link
In comment 14700263 Torrag said:
Quote:
Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.


Wait, I thought the Gettleman fans don't believe he has any input on the head coach anyway? That's all John Mara's fault, right?
'Gettleman fans don't believe he has any input on the head coach'  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 6:18 pm : link
I've never expressed that opinion. In fact I've stated on multiple threads today that he and ownership got the Shurmur hire wrong.

I also said he deserves another crack at it because imo the roster is heading in the right direction and I believe in his team building philosophy.
Hypothetical: what if all the coaches and staff are retained?  
SGMen : 12/2/2019 6:19 pm : link
I think the fans would go nuts that we could be terrible two years in a row, actually worse this year though with a rookie turnover machine QB.

I just can't see any scenario where a new coaching staff isn't brought in.

My hope had been that ONLY Shurmur was fired and we kept the OC and the system in place. Maybe promote a staff member though none have HC experience. But that is wishful thinking on my part.
Well, fine, then the comment doesn't apply to you  
Greg from LI : 12/2/2019 6:20 pm : link
But you can't tell me you haven't see plenty of people saying that.

In what way is the roster headed in the right direction?
RE: What happens is pretty simple - Gettleman is retained, Shurmur is  
.McL. : 12/2/2019 6:23 pm : link
In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:
Quote:
out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression.

The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster.

The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.

This is mostly what I expect, except I think the chance of getting 10 wins in 2022 is slim to none after a new regime takes over that off season and decides on another new rebuild.
Easy.  
AcidTest : 12/2/2019 6:24 pm : link
Shurmur is fired. DG stays. I'm not sure who the next coach will be.
In what way is the roster headed in the right direction?  
Torrag : 12/2/2019 6:29 pm : link
Many of the young players are prospects I liked coming out in the Draft. They have to gain experience and that's always a painful process. I don't see the coaches deploying them well to help their development which is a major reason they must go. Jones has the tools to be an above average NFL QB and that's a skillset you can win titles with. On the veteran acquisition side I like both Zeitler and Williams(who I envision getting signed).

Still some work to do on The OL(OC/OT). Edge and FS on defense. We'll obviously be adding some top tier Draft talent again. We're also setup to spend some coin in Free agency. We should have our most complete roster in years heading into 2020.

The biggest thing they have to get right now is the head coach.
RE: heh....I see the latest bandwagon people are going to jump on is Smith  
jcn56 : 12/2/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14700363 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Hey, this guy had a good game against the Packers! ALL HAIL GETTLEMAN FOR THIS GENIUS ACQUISITION!

Could we wait and see for more than two games?


You haven't seen the burn that Ryan Connelly got. You'd think in the Giants LB hierarchy it goes LT->Carson->Connelly.
they will win 2 out of the next 4  
stoneman : 12/2/2019 6:45 pm : link
everybody stays, miss out on Chase, but get multiple picks with their top 5 pick, and finally get their OL and WR they were looking for. Still looking for the ER and LBs going into FA.
IMHO  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/2/2019 6:46 pm : link
Shurmur is gone.
Gettleman stays.
Honestly i believe we need an intervention  
idiotsavant : 12/2/2019 6:56 pm : link
Which is why I expect aliens to visit the facility..
I have no faith in Mara doing the right thing  
Rick in Dallas : 12/2/2019 7:08 pm : link
Which would be as follows:
DG fired
PS fired
Chris Mara moved to a non football personnel job in organization
Restructuring of the scouting department

What will happen:
DG stays and PS and staff fired
No change with Chris Mara and scouting department
RE: I have no faith in Mara doing the right thing  
Nine-Tails : 12/2/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14700447 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Which would be as follows:
DG fired
PS fired
Chris Mara moved to a non football personnel job in organization
Restructuring of the scouting department

What will happen:
DG stays and PS and staff fired
No change with Chris Mara and scouting department


I know Chris Mara has the title, but how much work does he actually do?
Gettleman and Shurmur Stay (with conditions)  
CraigKupp : 12/2/2019 8:43 pm : link
I think Gettleman definitely stays because I don't think ownership likes the optics to future GM candidates of firing a GM after two years and because I think they want to give Gettleman a chance to see his "vision" through. I think they tell Shurmur he can stay if he fires his coordinators, several of assistants (like Hunter) and gives up playcalling. That way, if Shurmur agrees they spin at as he is trying to remake himself like Coughlin in 2007 and if he balks then they have a reason to let him go. I think Shurmur probably agrees to their demands.
Bad Team, Weak Players, Bad Record  
Percy : 12/2/2019 9:50 pm : link
Fire coach and hope something good happens. Whether it does or not at least you did "something." Shurmur is out. Does not really matter who's in. Same old same old.
If season ended today  
joeinpa : 12/2/2019 10:02 pm : link
Shurmur gone.

But I still believe winning 3 of last four could save his job.
RE: 'Gettleman will limit the interested candidates'  
santacruzom : 12/2/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14700263 Torrag said:
Quote:
Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.


It would be tough to change your mind on that one. It's not likely that we will hear a potential candidate flat out say he didn't pursue the job because of Gettleman -- no one would openly say that. The best we can do is see what other teams with new coaches in 2020 perform and wonder if their coach ever had interest in the Giants or vice versa.
Murmur has to go  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/2/2019 10:29 pm : link
you cannot walk in front of the cameras as Mara and tell the NY Media and fans he's staying

the guys a dead man walking

DG will buy another year, too far into draft planning now
RE: In what way is the roster headed in the right direction?  
GiantGrit : 12/2/2019 10:41 pm : link
In comment 14700398 Torrag said:
Quote:
Many of the young players are prospects I liked coming out in the Draft. They have to gain experience and that's always a painful process. I don't see the coaches deploying them well to help their development which is a major reason they must go. Jones has the tools to be an above average NFL QB and that's a skillset you can win titles with. On the veteran acquisition side I like both Zeitler and Williams(who I envision getting signed).

Still some work to do on The OL(OC/OT). Edge and FS on defense. We'll obviously be adding some top tier Draft talent again. We're also setup to spend some coin in Free agency. We should have our most complete roster in years heading into 2020.

The biggest thing they have to get right now is the head coach.


Agreed Torrag. I like the young talent on this team, i also understand why others don't. Reality is, we don't know what a lot of the young guys are because of shitty coaching and inexperience.

If they keep Gettleman, i hope Ron Rivera shakes loose. That's a duo i can get behind.

If they go with a young HC like Rhule i think you really need to consider bringing in his own GM.

What do i think happens?

My head says Shurmur is gone but Gettleman stays...
my gut says both go.

While the Giants have been a disaster, the notion John Mara does not care is really stupid. This is an embarassment for him and i wouldn't be surprised if he cleaned house.

I know, i know. John Mara getting rid of his GM after 2 years? I think they lose out and the optics are so bad he has no choice.
At this moment, disappointment.  
Hsilwek92 : 12/2/2019 10:54 pm : link
Ask again later...
Shurmur and his staff are gone...  
M.S. : 12/3/2019 7:09 am : link

… Gettleman will stay.

.  
Danny Kanell : 12/3/2019 11:13 am : link
I have a feeling that when (not if) we lose out and finish 2-14, Mara finally nuts up and cleans house. Gettleman and Shurmur gone. Gettleman possibly "retires" for health reasons.
RE: One thing I think is important, though it shouldn't be...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/3/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14700323 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think the Giants need to lose these last 4 games. We all know (or at least we should) that these last 4 games shouldn't save anyone, but a 2-14 record would be the worst Giants record since 1966. That might resonate with John.

Also...I don't like telling people what to do with their time and money, but if you're a season ticket holder and want to see change, please consider staying home for the last two home games against Miami and Philly. That will definitely resonate with John. Alternatively, some type of embarrassing fiasco would help. A sideline blowup between coaches and players, a game stoppage due to snowballs being thrown on the field, a stadium power outage, something...

I wish I were kidding, but this franchise is the loved one that needs to bottom out before they can begin the road to recovery.
Completely agree with this.
Don't care  
Thegratefulhead : 12/3/2019 1:36 pm : link
Only interested in results. Show me a team that is getting better and not worse and I will start watching, buying and wearing merchandise again. Until them then I will get my Giant's fix from BBI and wear my Yankees gear instead.
Gettlemen  
ronk182 : 12/3/2019 7:21 pm : link
I want him gone first thing. The first mistake he made was trading OBJ. I couldn't believe it when I heard it.How could Mara let that happen. After paying Beckham $20 million in signing bonus. He was there best player and he had the star power. He was the reason young kids might buy a Giants shirt or Jersey. And what did we get in return? He let all our vets go and he keeps taking the cast offs from other teams. Williams-come on. We have too many holes on this team to give up any draft picks. We need O-line, Pass rushers, lbs, dbs, and now a #1 wr. Fire everyone for blowing up this team and making it worse starting with Gettlemen.
RE: RE: What happens is pretty simple - Gettleman is retained, Shurmur is  
Jersey55 : 12/4/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14700230 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:


Quote:


out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression.

The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster.

The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.



So, you think it will be Garrett, McCarthy or Rivera for HC?


Hiring Garrett would be Shurmur 2.0
Honestly:  
bradshaw44 : 12/4/2019 5:20 pm : link
Shurmur gets canned. We hire Rivera.

Gettleman stays.
not sure it will be Rivera  
bc4life : 12/4/2019 9:39 pm : link
Schwartz's name might be out there.

Wonder who the DC will be? Reason I am curiious is that the sceondary coach for Dallas will be a hot name for coordinator positions. I wonder how he'll do at the next level
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