What do you honestly think happens?

It’s never been this bad under his watch. Francesa destroyed the organization today - fans smell blood. Here is what I think happens:

1. Shurmur fired
2. Gettleman retires citing health reasons (perhaps pushed out).

Mara will see the interested coaches are very limited with Gettleman in charge. Clearing the deck & interview/hire the best candidate to build a successful program here. GM/HC lock-step on all decisions.

Gettleman lives for another year because "stability".

This franchise does not do well with hard decisions.

I think Dave stays and Pat and most if not all the staff is shown the door.

Shurmur is a goner. By the end of this season his all time record will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17-50, and his winning % with the Giants may be even worse. Damn near impossible to sell that to the fan base.

I think DG gets another year. His drafts have been at least OK....far from perfect, but I like what ive seen of a few guys at least (Slayton, Connelly). After years of complaining about the lack of hits after RD 3 we may actually have a few. And as for FA, that has been a bust so far, but he also hasn't exactly been playing the game with much of a bank account. Kind of had to buy a few St James PL instead of shopping for Broadway or Park Place. And with FA, you also have to consider that not only do you have to want a player, the player needs to want YOU. So anyway, I think he gets one more year at least. Would not be disappointed if that were not the case, but I do expect that is how it will go down

1) Lose out, Fire Shurmur, Retain Gettleman

Personally, I think this team is the perfect shit storm combination of inept scheme, coaching, and inexperience. I would not be surprised if the D becomes a huge strength with better coaches. The players drafted by Navey Davey possess all the variable you need to be a player in the NFL. What they don't have is competent coaching and experience.

2) Trade the 1st overall pick to Miami for the 3rd pick, pick up an extra first rounder (at the very least)

3) Draft Chase Young and then cluster draft between LBs and OTs.

4) Sign 3-4 notable free agents (WR, OT, LB, FS); we have an absurd amount of dead cap that will free up next year. Spend the money, but do short-term contracts with guaranteed money.

5) Sign a coach who is a CEO-type. Matt Rhule or Lincoln would be perfect, if they sign the right coordinators. Hopefully, an ex-coach for OC and Martinelli for DC. I also think doing this sooner than later will help us in FA.

6) Sign experienced depth at the DT for cheap

I think all of this is completely doable and will create a competent team for next year, and a strong base for making a run in 3 years.

is if the HC is above the GM in terms of decision making.

What do I think they do? Probably none of the things I just mentioned unless Mara takes Ayauhasca and sees the light....

out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression.

The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster.

The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.

Are fired, Mara will deliver his bi-annual “everyone in the organization is on notice”, they will hire a yes-man like Marvin Lewis or Jason Garrett and the decay will continue until he either sells the team or Tisch forces him to do an organizational structure enema.

In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:

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out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression. The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster. The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.

So, you think it will be Garrett, McCarthy or Rivera for HC?

with Betcher and a few positional coaches getting the axe. I just think Mara believes firing Shurmur could hinder Jones’ development. Hoping to God I’m wrong and they are both shown the door.

At some point after week 2 I'm guessing there was a conversation/meeting between Shurmur/DG/Mara to discuss Jones replacing Eli.

It's possible that at said meeting the decision was made to play as many of the young guys as possible (when "ready") and see what happens. Not tanking, necessarily, but if losses come, so be it. At least the young guys would be developing and getting experience.

If that actually took place, does that get Shurmur/DG off the hook?

Are the players bad, underperforming or both?

Personally I don't think the coaching staff is very good on game days. Are they good enough at developing the young guys? I have no idea. All of them have played well at times and struggled at others. Is that talent, coaching or development?


If I had to guess what happens:

Since DG went against the grain and picked Jones (who is playing better than expected and better than most rookie QBs from the last few years) I think his job is safe, for now.

I think Shurmur and staff will be gone. It's not just the losses, it's the decision making as well.

In comment 14700231 nyjuggernaut2 said:

Quote:

with Betcher and a few positional coaches getting the axe. I just think Mara believes firing Shurmur could hinder Jones’ development. Hoping to God I’m wrong and they are both shown the door.

What development?

20% Both Gone
35% Shurmur Gone / Gettleman Stays
15% Shurmur Stays / Gettleman Gone
30% Both Stay

so only 35% chance DG is gone - which bums me out

55% Shurmur gone
(there's still games to win and Mara looking for a reason)

In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:

Quote:

out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression. The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster. The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.

bleak but prob spot on

PS is done, barring a 4 game winning streak. I still think they don't want to fire him.

I disagree with that characterization. Appears to be pretty evenly split here on BBI. In my circle of Giants fans which is extensive opinion leans toward retaining him.

As for what I think will happen. DG will stay and Shurmur and staff will go. As it should be.

Continues with john boy

In comment 14700248 Torrag said:

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I disagree with that characterization. Appears to be pretty evenly split here on BBI. In my circle of Giants fans which is extensive opinion leans toward retaining him. As for what I think will happen. DG will stay and Shurmur and staff will go. As it should be.

What is your rebuttal to the idea that the presence of Gettleman will limit the interested candidates in the job?

Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.

In comment 14700230 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 14700224 jcn56 said: Quote: out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression. The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster. The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point. So, you think it will be Garrett, McCarthy or Rivera for HC?

I don't think Rivera touches this one. I would imagine either Garrett or McCarthy, and neither will succeed. Garrett hasn't done much with a lot more talent, and there's every reason to believe McCarthy wouldn't be anything without Rodgers at QB.

are fired. Giants have been an embarrassment for too long. This year has been eye opening to Mara by all accounts, so I think we see wholesale change.

In comment 14700263 Torrag said:

Quote:

Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.

Except that it was already rumored to be the case during the last HC search.

Gettleman does this because he knows it buys him two more years.

If the team sucks next year with a new coach, the new coach won’t get fired after one year (if he does that would terrible optics and mean Jones would have 3 head coaches in 3 years).

If the team sucks next year under the new coach, Gettleman won’t get fired because no new GM will want to come in with a coach already in place.

What's likely:

The entire coaching staff is fired, Gettleman remains and helps Mara pick the next coach. Likeliest name is Jason Garrett. Team goes 5-11 in 2020, at which point Gettleman is pushed out the door and replaced by Abrams after a sham interview process. Thus the Giants keep hopping from one fall guy to the next.

What I want:

Everyone not named Mara (I don't ever expect Chris Mara to be fired) or Tisch that has to do with football operations is gone. The antiquated structure is blown up, and a head coach is hired to rebuild the organization. Everything points back up to the head coach, including the hiring of a GM/personnel director.

In comment 14700298 Go Terps said:

Quote:

What's likely: The entire coaching staff is fired, Gettleman remains and helps Mara pick the next coach. Likeliest name is Jason Garrett. Team goes 5-11 in 2020, at which point Gettleman is pushed out the door and replaced by Abrams after a sham interview process. Thus the Giants keep hopping from one fall guy to the next. What I want: Everyone not named Mara (I don't ever expect Chris Mara to be fired) or Tisch that has to do with football operations is gone. The antiquated structure is blown up, and a head coach is hired to rebuild the organization. Everything points back up to the head coach, including the hiring of a GM/personnel director.

Sorry, but I'm adding 'fire Chris Mara' to my 'want' list. And for good reason - he's been VP of Pro Personnel for a team that has been abysmal for some time now.

People will say it's just a title, that we don't know how involved he is. Fine and dandy - then give him a 'Giants Senior Vice President of Public Relations' or some other non-football title, and keep him the hell away from personnel decisions, even if in title only.

Exactly...fiction. Some of you dolts don't get what a fact vs an opinion or rumor is? You want to believe said BS that's up to you. Don't spew this garbage like it's the established truth. It isn't.

PS is fired but DG stays, it might limit the coaching search to just desperate retreads dying for another shot. Then in 2 years, we clean house.

If they all stay, we go 4-12 next year, then we blow ‘em both out.

Anything other than a clean slate is just wasting time.

In comment 14700211 John In CO said:

Quote:

Shurmur is a goner. By the end of this season his all time record will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17-50, and his winning % with the Giants may be even worse. Damn near impossible to sell that to the fan base. I think DG gets another year. His drafts have been at least OK....far from perfect, but I like what ive seen of a few guys at least (Slayton, Connelly). After years of complaining about the lack of hits after RD 3 we may actually have a few. And as for FA, that has been a bust so far, but he also hasn't exactly been playing the game with much of a bank account. Kind of had to buy a few St James PL instead of shopping for Broadway or Park Place. And with FA, you also have to consider that not only do you have to want a player, the player needs to want YOU. So anyway, I think he gets one more year at least. Would not be disappointed if that were not the case, but I do expect that is how it will go down

That makes the most sense to me UnShumur is just not
head coaching material but coaching on both sides of the
all were horrific vs Greenbay and yrs not a lot of QB's
can make the plays that Rodgers does .
If they uproot the entire system i'm fine with it
If they keep DG another season fine but the coaches need to
go . I think another solid off season things will start
to turn around we have a lot of young players that have
potential we know where we need to improve O-line edge
saftey LB . I think Jones is good enough to lead us .

I think the Giants need to lose these last 4 games. We all know (or at least we should) that these last 4 games shouldn't save anyone, but a 2-14 record would be the worst Giants record since 1966. That might resonate with John.

Also...I don't like telling people what to do with their time and money, but if you're a season ticket holder and want to see change, please consider staying home for the last two home games against Miami and Philly. That will definitely resonate with John. Alternatively, some type of embarrassing fiasco would help. A sideline blowup between coaches and players, a game stoppage due to snowballs being thrown on the field, a stadium power outage, something...

I wish I were kidding, but this franchise is the loved one that needs to bottom out before they can begin the road to recovery.

is Britt in VA.

Unfortunately, it is also usually what shouldn't happen...

In comment 14700306 Torrag said:

Quote:

Exactly...fiction. Some of you dolts don't get what a fact vs an opinion or rumor is? You want to believe said BS that's up to you. Don't spew this garbage like it's the established truth. It isn't.

LOL, if you can't read then I can't help you - it was clearly labeled as speculative.

Dumb way to do business but I think that’s what will happen. Remember, Gettleman is part of the Giants family and has been to a few Super Bowls over the years as he’s so quick to remind everyone. Shurmur takes the fall, otherwise business as usual.

They hire another “adult”, probably someone like Garrett. Possibly Mike Smith or something. Rivera if he gets fired by Carolina.

The Giants are not in the bold move business, they are in the safe and familiar business. John Mara wants to get on base, he’s not swinging doe the fences.

Gettleman stays, as he should.

DG's drafts appear to have been solid so far. It's tough to tell sometimes due to the coaching disaster.

His FA signings and waiver pick-ups haven't been as bad as many of the morons here contend. You have to start somewhere after the team was totally destroyed by Reese and Ross. Plus the best players never reach free agency anyway, so you are always dealing with role players rather than core guys as vet FAs.

Solder was best available OT and has been hampered by gawdawful coaching of young players around him. Ditto Remmers, who has been a decent ROT in the past. Tate is a good acquisition. Ditto Marcus Golden. DG also upgraded the Punter position with Dixon, and Core is a better gunner than anyone they had at the time. TE Kaden Smith also looks promising. Could he have done better? Sure. He's had a bunch of real clunkers, too. But it isn't all bad as some contend.

I had forgotten about him, though I doubt you're wrong.

In comment 14700329 Red Dog said:

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Gettleman stays, as he should. DG's drafts appear to have been solid so far. It's tough to tell sometimes due to the coaching disaster. His FA signings and waiver pick-ups haven't been as bad as many of the morons here contend. You have to start somewhere after the team was totally destroyed by Reese and Ross. Plus the best players never reach free agency anyway, so you are always dealing with role players rather than core guys as vet FAs. Solder was best available OT and has been hampered by gawdawful coaching of young players around him. Ditto Remmers, who has been a decent ROT in the past. Tate is a good acquisition. Ditto Marcus Golden. DG also upgraded the Punter position with Dixon, and Core is a better gunner than anyone they had at the time. TE Kaden Smith also looks promising. Could he have done better? Sure. He's had a bunch of real clunkers, too. But it isn't all bad as some contend.

That's fucking hilarious - have you always written satire or was this the first one?

Solder's awful, and he was paid top OLT money. Your recap seems to overlook Jonathan Stewart, of the 'it's only $3M, who cares if you piss it away' variety FA. Or Patrick Omameh, there was a few million well spent on a guy who didn't make it through the year.

Or Ogletree - who Dandy Dave gave up draft picks for the right to pay $10M for nothing. Sense a pattern? Here comes Leonard Williams!

You guys make Redskins fans seem level headed.

It was an unmitigated disaster. He was fired 6 games in to his second season there.

If they wanted to replace both, they would have moved on from Gettleman already. Having to hire a GM prior to a coach when the whole league is in hire frenzy is difficult. The logical move would be to fired the GM, find a new one before black Monday, and be able to concentrate on your coaching search.

new DC, OC, and Oline coach.

Hey, this guy had a good game against the Packers! ALL HAIL GETTLEMAN FOR THIS GENIUS ACQUISITION!

Could we wait and see for more than two games?

In comment 14700263 Torrag said:

Quote:

Simple response. It's a fictional statement I don't believe at all.

Wait, I thought the Gettleman fans don't believe he has any input on the head coach anyway? That's all John Mara's fault, right?

I've never expressed that opinion. In fact I've stated on multiple threads today that he and ownership got the Shurmur hire wrong.

I also said he deserves another crack at it because imo the roster is heading in the right direction and I believe in his team building philosophy.

I think the fans would go nuts that we could be terrible two years in a row, actually worse this year though with a rookie turnover machine QB.

I just can't see any scenario where a new coaching staff isn't brought in.

My hope had been that ONLY Shurmur was fired and we kept the OC and the system in place. Maybe promote a staff member though none have HC experience. But that is wishful thinking on my part.

But you can't tell me you haven't see plenty of people saying that.

In what way is the roster headed in the right direction?

In comment 14700224 jcn56 said:

Quote:

out. The Giants will get a blue chip player at #2 or #3 overall. They'll spend in FA and get a momentary boost to take them to 5-11, which will cause Gettleman's supporters to cheer in the streets, pointing at progression. The improvements will be surface only, and the team will struggle again in 2021, with the new HC needing another year since you don't want to be on your 3rd coach in 4 years. Gettleman will also get another season, and his draft classes will have shown no progress but they'll all be "starters" by virtue of the fact that no one else is on the roster. The Giants won't break 10 wins until they clean house. Figure 2022, by which point Barkley will either have to be paid big money or cut loose, and Jones will be approaching the same decision point.

This is mostly what I expect, except I think the chance of getting 10 wins in 2022 is slim to none after a new regime takes over that off season and decides on another new rebuild.

Shurmur is fired. DG stays. I'm not sure who the next coach will be.

Many of the young players are prospects I liked coming out in the Draft. They have to gain experience and that's always a painful process. I don't see the coaches deploying them well to help their development which is a major reason they must go. Jones has the tools to be an above average NFL QB and that's a skillset you can win titles with. On the veteran acquisition side I like both Zeitler and Williams(who I envision getting signed).

Still some work to do on The OL(OC/OT). Edge and FS on defense. We'll obviously be adding some top tier Draft talent again. We're also setup to spend some coin in Free agency. We should have our most complete roster in years heading into 2020.

The biggest thing they have to get right now is the head coach.

In comment 14700363 Greg from LI said:

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Hey, this guy had a good game against the Packers! ALL HAIL GETTLEMAN FOR THIS GENIUS ACQUISITION! Could we wait and see for more than two games?

You haven't seen the burn that Ryan Connelly got. You'd think in the Giants LB hierarchy it goes LT->Carson->Connelly.

everybody stays, miss out on Chase, but get multiple picks with their top 5 pick, and finally get their OL and WR they were looking for. Still looking for the ER and LBs going into FA.

Shurmur is gone.
Gettleman stays.